Forums: Climbing Information: Technique & Training: Re: [JAB] So, there's a route you want to redpoint...: Edit Log




jt512


Jun 3, 2011, 12:02 AM

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Registered: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 21904

Re: [JAB] So, there's a route you want to redpoint...
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JAB wrote:
jt512 wrote:
JAB wrote:
Not to mention...

In reply to:
Dave MacLeod has been making good progress recently on the 500m super climb, the Longhope Route at St Johns Head, Hoy, despite atrocious rainy weather and also being vomited on by angry seabirds.

Dave reported on his blog that, in spite of the rain, he had managed to complete his recent objective of linking on a shunt “the big pitch”, a series of headwall cracks speculated to be around 8c/8c+.

John Arran and Dave Turnbull made the first free ascent of the Longhope Route in 1997 but avoided this headwall by a four-pitch deviation up grooves to the left. Dave now plans to free the entirety of the route, which, even without the hardest section, still amounts to 23 pitches of serious, loose and physically demanding climbing with a top pitch of F8a.

From http://www.climber.co.uk/...p;c=7&cate=__137

How invested do you really want to be in this pet hypothesis of yours? Practically every redpoint project ever projected has been projected with a partner. The advantages of this over toprope soloing are numerous and patently obvious, which is why that's the way they're done by almost everyone almost every time. Do you really think being able to point to a rare exception is even remotely good evidence that "the best way to really project is to top rope solo"?

I haven't bothered to look up your example, but look at bear-brainer's. Tommy works some move on TR solo because the weather sucks so much he can't find a belayer. Do you think Tommy routinely works his projects solo? If not, then why not, if TR soloing is, in fact, "the best way to really project"?

Jay

I don't understand why you get so worked up over this.

I hate to disappoint you, but I'm not getting worked up. I'm just calling bullshit on your bullshit.

In reply to:
TR solo is definitely more than some obscure technique for rare situations. In some cases (like the ones we posted) it is the best solution, in some cases it's not.

I'm not sure how to classify all the fallacies you've managed to pack into those two sentences. There's a straw man there for sure, along with the fallacy of Trying to Weasel Out of an Untenable Position by Any Means Possible™.

You made the unconditional claim that toprope soloing is "the best" method for working a redpoint project. Sure, toprope soloing is not an "obscure" technique, nor is it necessarily "just for rare situations." And, sure (I suppose) toprope soloing is the best solution "in some cases" (eg, when you can't find a partner). But none of that supports your claim that toprope soloing is unconditionally the best method for working a redpoint project. For god sake give it up. If your claim were true, then it would not be the case that almost no project is ever worked in this manner by anyone. No matter how many (few?) examples you can dig up by selectively trawling the Internet for support, there are literally 10s of thousands of examples to the contrary. Do good climbers on occasion work moves on solo toprope? Sure. Is it the norm? Not even remotely. What Universe do you climb in that you could actually have such an opinion?

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Jun 3, 2011, 12:05 AM)



Edit Log:
Post edited by jt512 () on Jun 3, 2011, 12:05 AM


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