Forums: Climbing Information: Technique & Training: Re: [DouglasHunter] ON-SIGHTING: Mental Strategy?: Edit Log


Jun 29, 2011, 3:13 PM

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Re: [DouglasHunter] ON-SIGHTING: Mental Strategy?
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DouglasHunter wrote:
You seem to have an axe to grind with the way other people climb, so be it.

None whatsoever, but it's common sense that if you don't do an activity 98% of the time you are roped-up then you are going have a pretty hard time coming up with the goods [on demand] the 2% of the time you do attempt it.

DouglasHunter wrote:
But its not a matter of "mindset" its a matter of what is required in each type of climbing in term of the cognitive and physical demands of the performance. There is a huge difference between attempting to execute a difficult movement sequence after it has been memorized [hanging from the end of a rope], and trying to execute a movement sequence on the first try with incomplete information about that sequence. The reason I brought up the difference is because they are radically different challenges, it has nothing to do with the habits of climbers. Regardless of an individual climber's habits, redpoints and onsights are and will always be very different athletic challenges.

Again, we disagree - the 'problem' isn't that you don't have things worked to death or memorized, but rather you simply have little to no experience working out sequences while actually climbing unaided by the rope 'on-the-fly'. More of that experiences is what is required.

DouglasHunter wrote:
healyje wrote:
The answer the OP needs isn't to do a bunch of mumbo-jumbo when suddenly attempting to do an onsight, but rather to spend a greater percentage of their time on a rope climbing like they are climbing onsight - i.e. not hanging.

You miss the point and make the point at the same time. Applying correct tactics is not mumbo-jumbo even if the climber is inexperienced at on-sight climbing. Less experienced climbers will simply be able to apply fewer tactics and apply them less well but you even mentioned one tactic involved in on-sighting that being down climbing. Well, reading sequences, pre-visualizing, and so on are just more advanced on-sight tactics that even inexperienced climbers can work with. They just do so at a lower level.

Again, forest for the trees - the issue isn't doing anything 'different' on rare occasions when you attempt to climb something you don't have wired from hanging on the end of the rope, but learning the requisite mental and emotional capabilities necessary to work out unknown sequences on the fly without the aid of the rope.

DouglasHunter wrote:
healje wrote:
DouglasHunter wrote:
I also go over pacing, movement initiation and how to deal with ambiguity, fear, or getting pumped faster than I thought I would.

If you need to consciously do that roped in at the base of a climb I should think you're a day late and a dollar short.

Nope, quite the opposite, its part of what made me a very good and extremely consistent on-sight climber.

Well, I'd say that's your tactic/crutch, not mine - that's more active mental activity then you'll ever find me doing. In fact, I do the opposite and attempt to clear my mind entirely to the degree possible, but to each his own. Personally, I'd recommend my approach over yours, but then I think we can agree you'd do the same.

DouglasHunter wrote:
healyje wrote:
DouglasHunter wrote:
Basically my on-sight tactics are based on the fact that the work the climber does on the ground doesn't "cost" anything in terms of aerobic or anaerobic energy production.

And overall of little utility if what you are trying to overcome is a near complete lack of experience climbing without hanging your way up a route.

Look, everyone has to start learning on-sight tactics at some level. Less experienced climbers will be able to do less productive work from the ground but one learns, as you point out, by practicing. using good tactics on the ground and then reviewing after an on-sight attempt is part of that learning.

Maybe don't think of climbing without hanging on the rope to figure out the sequences as a matter of 'tactics', but rather just think of it as 'climbing'; instead think of bouldering your way up routes working out the sequences from the end of a rope as a practice 'tactic' and don't make that practice more than about 50-60% of your climbing if you want to get good at onsighting and FAs.

DouglasHunter wrote:
healyje wrote:
DouglasHunter wrote:
I have written at length on this topic in a new book coming out at the end of the year.

Hmmm, I'm sure it will be as great as all the other climbing books out there, but if onisghting and FA is what they dream of then reading won't do anything for them if they continue to make 98% of their climbing experience bouldering up routes hanging on the end of a rope.

I know its hard, but try not to be an ass, its not becoming.

Neither is saying someone is "not serious" while declaring yourself an 'expert' because you can type.

(This post was edited by healyje on Jun 29, 2011, 5:21 PM)

Edit Log:
Post edited by healyje () on Jun 29, 2011, 3:18 PM
Post edited by healyje () on Jun 29, 2011, 3:19 PM
Post edited by healyje () on Jun 29, 2011, 3:32 PM
Post edited by healyje () on Jun 29, 2011, 3:34 PM
Post edited by healyje () on Jun 29, 2011, 3:35 PM
Post edited by healyje () on Jun 29, 2011, 3:39 PM
Post edited by healyje () on Jun 29, 2011, 3:43 PM
Post edited by healyje () on Jun 29, 2011, 5:20 PM
Post edited by healyje () on Jun 29, 2011, 5:21 PM

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