Forums: Climbing Information: Beginners: Re: [drector] When it it safe to be the most experienced climber in a group?: Edit Log




USnavy


Jul 23, 2012, 8:40 PM

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Registered: Nov 5, 2007
Posts: 2661

Re: [drector] When it it safe to be the most experienced climber in a group?
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drector wrote:
USnavy wrote:
So how could someone who has never actually tested a piece of gear possibly be more qualified than someone who tests it all the time? At the end of the day, you can climb trad every day of ever year, but until you actually fall on a piece, its just a guess as to whether it will hold or not. Falling on pieces often and verifying they hold confirms that you have the appropriate skill set required to place good pro.

Maybe you are just falling on the pieces that are places well and have never fallen on the crap placements you make every other time. I don't me "you" personally but in general, placing gear is all about placing gear correctly and securely every single time, not just the times when you happen to take a fall.

There is no "guess" about a piece holding or people would be getting hurt constantly. A competent trad leader needs to place gear properly without the need for testing it and that takes instruction, a high IQ, some mechanical inclination, and some common sense, not a lot of falls.

Or do you fall on every piece to find out if it will hold?

Dave
Except in my example I was comparing someone who had taken 300 falls versus someone who had never taken one. If you have taken 300 lead falls and all of your pieces have held, it is pretty crystal clear that you know how to place gear. And yes it is a guess. I dont care how high your IQ is or how many times you scored a 36 on the ACT, until you fall on a piece of gear, you dont know for certain it will hold. If there is one thing I have learned climbing trad I would say it is that just because a piece looks good, it does not mean it is good. Always have at least two pieces between you and the deck.

There is a guy on here (Caughtinside I think) who ripped three "textbook" .75 Camalots in parallel placements in good rock. Metolius also conducted a study awhile back in which they found 1 in 20 placements they were confident was bomber ended up pulling on a fall. Cams are not bolts, there are no guarantees. I have ripped a green Alien on bodyweight in Yosemite. It was in a splitter crack, and it was a textbook placement. Well the lobes just dident engage. The cam slid out when I bounce tested it. I have also ran into that same issue other places. Cams have limits, if the rock is too smooth, they wont work, it is as simple as that. That is one of the reasons why some climbers believe that climbing trad on limestone is dangerous. Limestone can be notoriously smooth at times.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Jul 23, 2012, 8:45 PM)



Edit Log:
Post edited by USnavy () on Jul 23, 2012, 8:42 PM
Post edited by USnavy () on Jul 23, 2012, 8:45 PM


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