Forums: Climbing Disciplines: Sport Climbing: Re: [jdensign5] Lead climb quickdraws: Edit Log




csproul


Aug 20, 2012, 12:20 PM

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Registered: Jun 4, 2004
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Re: [jdensign5] Lead climb quickdraws
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jdensign5 wrote:
jt512 wrote:
jdensign5 wrote:
Depends on how free of a climb you want to climb. It is around the same as pre clipping the first bolt before you start. If you have access to the top and can rappel down and pre place, and the climb is really at your limit, then go ahead and pre place them. For a more "true free climb" place as you climb up. I like to place as I go unless the climb is too hard for me.

Since the definition of "free climb" is to climb the route without weighting the rope or the protection, there are no degrees of free climbing. You either weighted the gear or you did not. Therefore, pre-clipping the first bolt or pre-hanging the draws does not affect whether the route will be climbed free.

Jay
Actually, the definition of free climbing is to climb with only your hands and feet and other body parts without the use of artificial aid. There are different degrees and opinionsof what a true free climb is. Part of free climbing to me, includes placing protection as you progress upward, not only weighting the rope, it depends on how strict you are on the subject.
There are certain free climbing transgressions, for example. The current climbing magazine issue, page 33. Taint o meter. One end of the meter is a total free climb, the middle is questionable free climb, the end is not free at all. In between free and questionably free, includes: chalk, climb off route to rest, pre hang quick draws, stick clip bolts, pre place pro. In between questionably free and not free at all includes: take, grab bolt or draw, stand on bolt, stand on sling, aid. There are different opinions on what a true free climb is, and preplacing gear is regarded mostly as diminished style, i.e., NOT AS GOOD.

As per wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_climbing
As matters of style, any of the following are likely to be regarded similarly by most free climbers across the various cultures. Generally, the following diminish the perception of "good style":
Pre-placing gear (pinkpointing)
Once again, I think you are confused. Jay is right. The only thing that defines a free climb is whether you have climbed the route under your own power using only the rock for progress without weighting gear or rope etc (fairly loose definition, I'm sure a better one could be written)...

All your other examples are clearly not free climbing or are different styles of free climbing.

jdensign5 wrote:
chalk, climb off route to rest, pre hang quick draws, stick clip bolts, pre place pro.

Seriously? Chalk? Give me a break, not worth even addressing. Pre-hanging draws or gear...still free climbing, see below. Same with stickclipping. Resting off-route? Still a free ascent, just maybe not of the intended route.

jdensign5 wrote:
take, grab bolt or draw, stand on bolt, stand on sling,

All examples of aid. Sometimes in sport climbing these are accepted methods to eventually achieving a free ascent.

Pinkpointing? With respect to sport climbing, this is pretty much an antiquated term. But even if you feel otherwise, pre-placing gear or draws does not invalidate a free ascent. You still free-climbed the route, just a different style of free climb. Just as a redpoint or a flash or an onsight are also free-climbing.


(This post was edited by csproul on Aug 20, 2012, 12:27 PM)



Edit Log:
Post edited by csproul () on Aug 20, 2012, 12:27 PM


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