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gogo
Feb 16, 2005, 9:13 AM
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Alright, so I've been thinking.
Just about every climbing area I've been to, both the locals and the magazines claim is sandbagged. Big Bend is sandbagged. Squamish is sandbagged. Yosemite is sandbagged. Skyland is sandbagged. Rifle is sandbagged (if you don't have the sequence and kneebar beta) Entire nations get listed as sandbagged, such as Japan (see the Japan issue of climbing), New Zealand, and Australia.
Occasionally, I hear that an area has "just right" grades, like Hueco. But I have really yet to hear that the grades are soft somewhere. Is there some kind of weird innate sense of pride that doesn't allow people to claim their area is soft, but sandbagged like, well, everywhere else?
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bumblie
Feb 16, 2005, 9:18 AM
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The Obed is soft. :wink:
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atpeaceinbozeman
Feb 16, 2005, 9:21 AM
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I hear Redrocks, NV grades are pretty soft.
Maybe I can tick some big numbers there this spring :lol:
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shakylegs
Feb 16, 2005, 9:23 AM
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Man, I can't wait (can't wait) until some pampered upper-New Yorker comes along to claim that the Gunks are famous for being sandbagged. Because, trust me, if it doesn't happen in this thread, it'll be the only one.
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salathiel
Feb 16, 2005, 9:41 AM
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Seneca Rocks has the softest grades in the US. Everyone should feel comfortable leading anything there. Stone Mountain, NC as well.
I say this with my tounge imbedded in my cheek.
Seriously, the best way Ideal with sandbaggin' is by understanding the history of the area, and the route itself. If a particular route I have climbed feels stiff/soft for the grade, I will remember the first ascentionist, and grade following routes accordingly. I also use this method to note the general quality of routes, and to find some hidden gems.
Don't know if this helps.
Blur
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sammmy
Feb 16, 2005, 9:42 AM
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i think little rock city (TN) is soft...you had mentioned that skyland was sandbagged...skyland, crested butte? i would say the ratings there are pretty much right on. there are a few spots/problems around boone that are definitely sandbagged, but sandbagging is ok...break down the ego a little, let you know you are not (near) as strong as who put up the route/problem.
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petsfed
Feb 16, 2005, 9:43 AM
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In reply to: Alright, so I've been thinking. Just about every climbing area I've been to, both the locals and the magazines claim is sandbagged. Big Bend is sandbagged. Squamish is sandbagged. Yosemite is sandbagged. Skyland is sandbagged. Rifle is sandbagged (if you don't have the sequence and kneebar beta) Entire nations get listed as sandbagged, such as Japan (see the Japan issue of climbing), New Zealand, and Australia. Occasionally, I hear that an area has "just right" grades, like Hueco. But I have really yet to hear that the grades are soft somewhere. Is there some kind of weird innate sense of pride that doesn't allow people to claim their area is soft, but sandbagged like, well, everywhere else?
I've heard Rifle was soft if you had good technique. Basically, all the great places of the world are "sandbagged" on account of having a well established and old hierarchy of grades. These are the places that existed in a vaccuum without needing to know what a 5.10 3000 miles away was.
Everybody says Vedauwoo is sandbagged. Its not. Its just that the moves that bring any given climb down to its published grade are a) inobvious or b) not enjoyable. I'm told the Gunks are really just pumpy, but not sandbagged. JTree might actually be sandbagged.
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azrockclimber
Feb 16, 2005, 9:44 AM
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jacks canyon AZ...I've been told that is soft
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olderic
Feb 16, 2005, 9:50 AM
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Any area where the majority of the routes were developed in the last 20 years is soft. All us old farts believe that....
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rockhound71
Feb 16, 2005, 9:58 AM
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In reply to: gogo Posted: 16 Feb 2005 09:13 Post subject: Sandbagging -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alright, so I've been thinking. Just about every climbing area I've been to, both the locals and the magazines claim is sandbagged. Big Bend is sandbagged. Squamish is sandbagged.
Squamish sandbagged? That's the first time I've heard that!
I think it all depends on the route and the ethics behind it, as was mentioned. Some routes with the same grade in an area are quite easy, and others are hard.
As 'they' say, it's all relative!
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yanqui
Feb 16, 2005, 10:09 AM
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In reply to: I hear Redrocks, NV grades are pretty soft. Maybe I can tick some big numbers there this spring :lol:
Oddly enough I was gonna use just this place as an example of how varied the route grading can be, even with climbs close by in the same area. Some climbs have soft grades, others might have stout grades.
So for example, one afternoon we sport climbed in this little cove of mostly 5.11 sport routes (I'm checking out the data base for names). Anyways, going in order, the grades went something like this:
5.11b (Gift something or other?) A pretty soft grade.
5.11a Another softy
5.11b Didn't do
5.11b Cool route
5.11d Didn't do
5.11a A little tricky
5.11a A bit stout
Everyone there (about 10 people) agreed the last 5.11a was harder than the first 5.11b.
Ah ha, I found it! Holiday Wall in the Sandstone quarry. The first 11b is Gift Wrapped. Amazing I remembered the grades so well after 6 years.
Anyways, if you just wanna feel like a hero, go flash Gift Wrpaped and then look for other soft grades. But you'll have a lot more fun if you just climb as many of the routes as you can and forget about the grade. One nice thing about short sport routes, is you can do that.
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hosh
Feb 16, 2005, 10:09 AM
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I often get the comment that the routes I set in our local gym are sandbagged. It's pretty embarasing when I rate something a 5.8 and it gets re-rated as a 5.9 with the frindge who say it should be a 10-. I'm not trying to be tough, I guess I just suck at rating things...
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tradklime
Feb 16, 2005, 11:24 AM
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In reply to: Yosemite is sandbagged.
This statement is illogical. The grading system we use is the YDS, AKA Yosemite Decimal System. Since the grading system was developed in Yosemite, the grades are what they are, and generally should be considered the benchmark for grading.
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tradklime
Feb 16, 2005, 11:28 AM
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In reply to: I hear Redrocks, NV grades are pretty soft.
I hear that a lot too. In my limited experience there, a lot of sport climbs felt hard for the grade. Don't know if it was due to broken holds, or just not being use to the rock, but I didn't leave with an inflated ego by any means.
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markc
Feb 16, 2005, 11:40 AM
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In reply to: Seneca Rocks has the softest grades in the US. Everyone should feel comfortable leading anything there. Stone Mountain, NC as well. I say this with my tounge imbedded in my cheek.
It's funny, I take a certain degree of pride in being a weak Seneca climber. I figure I might suck, but I suck less when I travel.
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yorb
Feb 16, 2005, 11:49 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Yosemite is sandbagged. This statement is illogical. The grading system we use is the YDS, AKA Yosemite Decimal System. Since the grading system was developed in Yosemite, the grades are what they are, and generally should be considered the benchmark for grading.
Wasn't the YDS actually developed at tacquitz (however you spell it) despite the name?
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gogo
Feb 16, 2005, 11:55 AM
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True, saying Yosemite is sandbagged is strange, but I hear it quite a bit.
Oh, and yes, Skyland in Crested Butte. I felt they were pretty good ratings too, but like I said, everything I've been to has been claimed to be sandbagged. Personally, I feel that the rating systems can be so subjective that I don't really care. V5 in one place in V7 in another. But both places will have people claiming their sandbagged.
The only place that I feel I've climbed at that was really stiff as compared to everywhere else was Big Bend, in Moab.
But I really find it strange when magazines refer to entire countries as sandbagged. It's kinda hard to believe that every route/problem in Japan is really stiff.
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tradklime
Feb 16, 2005, 11:55 AM
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In reply to: Wasn't the YDS actually developed at tacquitz (however you spell it) despite the name?
Well, I've been wrong before... anyway, i'd still use Yosemite as the benchmark.
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bandycoot
Feb 16, 2005, 11:58 AM
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Yes Tahquitz is the birthplace of the YDS. Royal Robbins (and others)created the decimal system 5.0 - 5.9. The Open Book, at Tahquitz, is the definition of 5.9 and a great climb as well! Still, despite the fact the ratings were created at Tahquiz I still hear beginners talk about how sandbagged the routes out there are. Pretty ridiculous. :roll:
Josh
Edited for accuracy, I pulled out the Tahquitz guide.
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duckwalk
Feb 16, 2005, 12:09 PM
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I think that all of the older school places are right on and all newer places are soft. All in the perspective 8^)
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adamwvt
Feb 16, 2005, 12:13 PM
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I like to use the grades in the Adirondacks as my measuring stick.
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rhu
Feb 16, 2005, 12:16 PM
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I've always heard that the Gunks were sandbagged. Horseshoe Canyon in AR is totally soft at one the walls. The rest, not so much.
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bigo
Feb 16, 2005, 12:21 PM
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every climb i can't do is sandbagged - every climb you do is soft.
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shakylegs
Feb 16, 2005, 12:29 PM
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In reply to: Man, I can't wait ( can't wait) until some pampered upper-New Yorker comes along to claim that the Gunks are famous for being sandbagged. Because, trust me, if it doesn't happen in this thread, it'll be the only one.
In reply to: I've always heard that the Gunks were sandbagged.
Well, that didn't take long.
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jammer
Feb 16, 2005, 12:44 PM
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unless you have the same person rate every climb in the world, there will be questions pretaining to the grades. Who the hell cares?? They are all fun as hell to climb ... the rest is basically braggin' rights, unless you use the numbers to decide if you should do the route or not.
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