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Egos and Icons, and the departure of Curt.
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slavetogravity


Feb 17, 2005, 1:28 PM
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Egos and Icons, and the departure of Curt.
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Have you ever felt that here at RC.com that, even though youíve never met a particular user, you've been around long enough you begin to feel that you know them. Well I was saddened to learn today that one user who Iíve felt I've goten to know, and held a lot of respect for has decided to pack up and leave our ranks. Curt has gone, and if you take a look at his profile youíll find that all of his photos are gone as well. When it comes to the moderation of this site I honestly donít have much to complain about. I donít complain because I know that without the rules that govern RC.com, this site would suck. Trolls and hackers would attack the threads making them unreadable and ultimately useless.
On occasion people act like jerks. And when someone does you wrong, you do what ever you feel is necessary to defend you self. But even though someoneís done you wrong, that doesnít mean you have free reign to do what ever you like in your defence. If Curt crossed the line defending him self and was called on it, my hope is that he would learn to let go of his pride and see the errors of his ways.
In the end his choices for leaving where his own. But why leave? And why take all your stuff with you? The sad truth is that with Curts departure itís the uses of this site, those who had nothing to do with idiotic fight, who are the real losers. They loose the useful, and increasingly rare, information and insight that Curt could provide.
So who do I blame for Curts departure? Well, I donít blame the moderators. I realize they have a tough job to do and Iíd rather see Curt, or anyone for that matter be tarpitted, then see RC.com be governed by double standards and nepotism. Iím sorry to say that I blame Curt for Curts departure.
Even though we never met, I held a lot of respect for the man. My hope is heíll chose to let go of his pride, take the higher ground and return some day.

If not. Then Iím sorry to say good buy.
RC.com wonít be the same without you.

Sincerely, Aaron Kristiansen. BC Canada.


Partner amber


Feb 17, 2005, 1:32 PM
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Re: Egos and Icons, and the departure of Curt. [In reply to]
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than see RC.com be governed by double standards and nepotism.

too late, but it's a great sentiment.


Partner euroford


Feb 17, 2005, 1:38 PM
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Re: Egos and Icons, and the departure of Curt. [In reply to]
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wow, i missed out on some drama around here.

i was out climbing. oops. i should be more carefull about thank kind of thing.



i'll sum up my viewpoint:

"that sucks"


Partner one900johnnyk


Feb 17, 2005, 1:46 PM
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Re: Egos and Icons, and the departure of Curt. [In reply to]
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what was the issue exactly, i must have missed it to. this is what happens when people take this site too seriously... which most people who post in community on a regular basis do, it seems... to think that leaving a website forum for good would seem like some kind of statement just sucks...


Partner tgreene


Feb 17, 2005, 1:47 PM
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Even though we never met, I held a lot of respect for the man. My hope is heíll chose to let go of his pride, take the higher ground and return some day.

^ What he said!!! :(


madriver


Feb 17, 2005, 1:49 PM
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Re: Egos and Icons, and the departure of Curt. [In reply to]
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...wtf!! whaa happened?


Partner tisar


Feb 17, 2005, 2:03 PM
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Re: Egos and Icons, and the departure of Curt. [In reply to]
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...wtf!! whaa happened?

Just if you missed the plot (see the "Hi Ho, Hi Ho, It's Off To The Tarpitt I Go!" thread, page 4):

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
I was just tarpitted for the first time today. So, I'll see you all in an hour or so. Apparantly, if someone tells you multiple times in a thread to go "f--- yourself" and you respond with something less than hugs and kisses--you will be tarpitted. Just a word to the wise....

Curt

HMMM...

Damn you guys, I've been trying to get tarpited or worse for years. What's your secret?

Blowmeharder said he got 5, count em, FIVE warnings from mods during his little emeticfest, hell, I was right in there with him, or so I thought, and nobody said a word.

Curt barely says f--- YOU and gets the la brea dunking.

Am I just ineffectual as a true tarpit worthy asshole?



Curt, BV Rutherford, 1995, cabernet, ohhh sooo good.

I am done posting here, for real. I have deleted my photos and most of the content in my profile. Since the powers that be here obviously don't think my contributions to the site outweighed my occasional gaffe, as evidenced by my tarpit today, there is really no point in sticking around.

If any of you want to contact me in the future -

curtshannon@mindspring.com

- works, and I also post on a couple of the other climbing related boards. This really isn't a big deal, so there is no point in trying to make it one. I hope that you all have some exceptional experiences in your climbing endeavours, as I have, and that you stay safe.

Curt

Sad, sad world....

- Daniel


jono


Feb 17, 2005, 3:26 PM
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Re: Egos and Icons, and the departure of Curt. [In reply to]
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that sucks, ive seen a lot of people go around here for similar reasons.


caughtinside


Feb 17, 2005, 3:42 PM
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Re: Egos and Icons, and the departure of Curt. [In reply to]
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What? You mean that RC.com has gradually been alienating/tarpitting/banning it's core contributers? No way! :lol:

It's only a matter of time. Curt isn't the first, and he won't be the last. The noticable decline in the number of knowledgeable climbers who contribute to RC will only lead to this becoming a dull, uninformative site.

Hey mods, whose next? :P


jumpingrock


Feb 17, 2005, 3:48 PM
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In reply to:
What? You mean that RC.com has gradually been alienating/tarpitting/banning it's core contributers? No way! :lol:

It's only a matter of time. Curt isn't the first, and he won't be the last. The noticable decline in the number of knowledgeable climbers who contribute to RC will only lead to this becoming a dull, uninformative site.

Hey mods, whose next? :P

Ah but there will always be community. And dull it is not.


reno


Feb 17, 2005, 3:58 PM
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Re: Egos and Icons, and the departure of Curt. [In reply to]
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Speaking as a user, not as a mod:

I'm sorry that Curt chose to leave the site, but the choice was his to make.

There are still many great folks on this site. They still offer many great insights, opinions, views, and commentary.

Curt is a big boy, and can make his own decisions.


slavetogravity


Feb 17, 2005, 4:07 PM
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What? You mean that RC.com has gradually been alienating/tarpitting/banning it's core contributers? No way!

It's only a matter of time. Curt isn't the first, and he won't be the last. The noticable decline in the number of knowledgeable climbers who contribute to RC will only lead to this becoming a dull, uninformative site.
I learnt not that long ago, no matter how valuable you think you are, youíre still expendable. When it comes to the future of RC.com Iím not too worried. Beginners will come of age, and share their experience. Current uses with experience (perhaps even me) will burn out and lose interest. New climbers of all experience levels will join our ranks. But regardless of who comes and who goes, who burn out or fades away. What ever contributions you make will always be here for other members to use and enjoy. That is unless you pull a Curt, and yank everything youíve ever contributed out of some act of vengeance.


caughtinside


Feb 17, 2005, 4:25 PM
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That is unless you pull a Curt, and yank everything youíve ever contributed out of some act of vengeance.

Why would you leave valuable content somewhere where the management doesn't respect you, and therefore, it?

What if Pete took all his material down? What if others who contributed to the ROutes DB did?

RC probably will always be around... until something better comes along.

Maybe it's just the natural cycle though. I'm losing interest in RC, while my interest in climbing has grown. I've learned a lot from the site, and met some great folks. But lots of those folks are gone now, and I don't seem to have quite the tolerance for these inane community threads that some do...


jono


Feb 17, 2005, 4:31 PM
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^ditto


camhead


Feb 17, 2005, 4:33 PM
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#1 I've tried like hell to get tarpitted, been quite obnoxious, and gotten nothing but perhaps a mild reprimand from philbox via PM.

#2 curt's posts were among the more entertaining to read, and well-written.

#3 this site is overmoderated, and can't decide whether it wants to be a cooperative, user-supported website, or a corporate, commercial entity.

#4 TARPIT ME!!!! TARPIT ME!!!!!! ANALGOATSEXMEATHOOKPEDERAST!!! I SPILLED JESUS ALL OVER THE BATHROOM!!!!! TABASCO SAUCE, GRAPENUTS, AND KY JELLY!!!! THIS SITE IS NOTHING MORE THAN A MEETING HALL FOR REPRESSED ATTENTION-WHORES WHO SPRAY, DENIGRATE OTHERS, ACCENTUATE THE NEGATIVE, AND HAVE THE COMPREHENSION AND ATTENTION SPANS OF A FUCKING MIDGET MONGOLOID AMPUTEE ON RIDALIN!!!! FUCK!!!!!! JUST TARPIT ME!!!!!


kachoong


Feb 17, 2005, 4:43 PM
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#4 TARPIT ME!!!! TARPIT ME!!!!!! ANALGOATSEXMEATHOOKPEDERAST!!! I SPILLED JESUS ALL OVER THE BATHROOM!!!!! TABASCO SAUCE, GRAPENUTS, AND KY JELLY!!!! THIS SITE IS NOTHING MORE THAN A MEETING HALL FOR REPRESSED ATTENTION-WHORES WHO SPRAY, DENIGRATE OTHERS, ACCENTUATE THE NEGATIVE, AND HAVE THE COMPREHENSION AND ATTENTION SPANS OF A f---ing MIDGET MONGOLOID AMPUTEE ON RIDALIN!!!! f---!!!!!! JUST TARPIT ME!!!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol: ....just in case the filters missed it the first time....


jt512


Feb 17, 2005, 4:46 PM
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It's only a matter of time. Curt isn't the first, and he won't be the last. The noticable decline in the number of knowledgeable climbers who contribute to RC will only lead to this becoming a dull, uninformative site.

Outside of Community the forums are dominated by repetitive questions from illiterate, adolescent n00bs, who think that they can learn to rock climb by asking stupid questions on the internet. Thus, the site is already dull and uninformative. The forums are the centerpiece of this website, and likely always will be. Unfortunately, management has not invested in infrastructure -- such as a FAQ and a really good forum search function -- necessary to transform the forums from what is little better than a teen chat room into a venue that would attract serious, experienced climbers, rather than repel them.

-Jay


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Feb 17, 2005, 4:59 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
It's only a matter of time. Curt isn't the first, and he won't be the last. The noticable decline in the number of knowledgeable climbers who contribute to RC will only lead to this becoming a dull, uninformative site.

Outside of Community the forums are dominated by repetitive questions from illiterate, adolescent n00bs, who think that they can learn to rock climb by asking stupid questions on the internet. Thus, the site is already dull and uninformative. The forums are the centerpiece of this website, and likely always will be. Unfortunately, management has not invested in infrastructure -- such as a FAQ and a really good forum search function -- necessary to transform the forums from what is little better than a teen chat room into a venue that would attract serious, experienced climbers, rather than repel them.

-Jay

uhhh.. community's pretty much full of shit too.


ps does anyone know who the moron is who tarpitted curt?


wingnut


Feb 17, 2005, 5:35 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
It's only a matter of time. Curt isn't the first, and he won't be the last. The noticable decline in the number of knowledgeable climbers who contribute to RC will only lead to this becoming a dull, uninformative site.

Outside of Community the forums are dominated by repetitive questions from illiterate, adolescent n00bs, who think that they can learn to rock climb by asking stupid questions on the internet. Thus, the site is already dull and uninformative. The forums are the centerpiece of this website, and likely always will be. Unfortunately, management has not invested in infrastructure -- such as a FAQ and a really good forum search function -- necessary to transform the forums from what is little better than a teen chat room into a venue that would attract serious, experienced climbers, rather than repel them.

-Jay

uhhh.. community's pretty much full of s--- too.


ps does anyone know who the moron is who tarpitted curt?

YES YES YES!!! If we can't get him back, then we should at least find out who did it.


livingtheedge


Feb 17, 2005, 5:45 PM
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Ill second that!! And if tomorrow I find that I cant type on here anymore so be it... And as a possible last post I would like to raise my imaginary scotch glass to curt in one last thanks to all he contributed to this site and all that I learned from him... Is it alright if i drink brandy out of the scotch glass instead?? Im not big on scotch.


Partner one900johnnyk


Feb 17, 2005, 6:03 PM
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YES YES YES!!! If we can't get him back, then we should at least find out who did it.

haha. yeah, presumably the person who did it shouldn't have any problems owning up to it... maybe there was a discussion around it i don't know how the non sensical opeations end of this fuckin site works..


dirtineye


Feb 17, 2005, 6:52 PM
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I don't see how a lynching would help anything.

But, it is a bit of a shock to learn that one person can tar pit, without confirmation from some sort of oversight group.


kachoong


Feb 17, 2005, 7:02 PM
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....I think the issue here is that he chose to leave.... that the tarpitting was the falafel that broke the camels back, so to speak.... he obviously had other issues and reasons to leave....

....this is also a good point:
In reply to:
Maybe it's just the natural cycle though. I'm losing interest in RC, while my interest in climbing has grown. I've learned a lot from the site, and met some great folks. But lots of those folks are gone now, and I don't seem to have quite the tolerance for these inane community threads that some do...
....also while the site was down a few weeks back, I think actual climbing increased as people started to rub their eyes and venture outside.... but yeah, it's a cycle that will continue regardless....


timstich


Feb 17, 2005, 7:36 PM
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Looks like supertacos and boldering are going to suck up all of the funny ones. Ha ha ha! You'll kick out blowboarder soon enough, I'm sure, and then back to his old stomping grounds he'll go.

What you guys and gals that split need to do is leave us a link to the places you frequent, not just an e-mail address.


Partner amber


Feb 17, 2005, 7:47 PM
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Looks like supertacos and boldering are going to suck up all of the funny ones. Ha ha ha! You'll kick out blowboarder soon enough, I'm sure, and then back to his old stomping grounds he'll go.

What you guys and gals that split need to do is leave us a link to the places you frequent, not just an e-mail address.

Yeah, can we have a sticky at the top of community so that we can track down friends who've become fed up with the politics of the site?

In reply to:
Maybe it's just the natural cycle though. I'm losing interest in RC, while my interest in climbing has grown. I've learned a lot from the site, and met some great folks. But lots of those folks are gone now, and I don't seem to have quite the tolerance for these inane community threads that some do...

amen.

In reply to:
#1 I've tried like hell to get tarpitted, been quite obnoxious, and gotten nothing but perhaps a mild reprimand from philbox via PM.

#2 curt's posts were among the more entertaining to read, and well-written.

#3 this site is overmoderated, and can't decide whether it wants to be a cooperative, user-supported website, or a corporate, commercial entity.

that camhead guy sure is smart.


reno


Feb 17, 2005, 7:59 PM
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ps does anyone know who the moron is who tarpitted curt?

Why does this matter?


Partner happiegrrrl


Feb 17, 2005, 8:00 PM
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what, precisely, was the word or words that Curt used, which caused his tar-pitting? Anyone know?

and...probably the mod who pittted curt feels sort of bad....after all, he or she most likely wouldn't have ever guessed it would have caused him to leave.


camhead


Feb 17, 2005, 8:12 PM
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Oh, okay, I've got it. I've got to misquote people to get tarpitted.

In reply to:
Hey, prospective employers, I really need a job, but for the record, I HATE ARMENIANS! And I kick puppies.

there.

TARPIT ME!!!!11


reno


Feb 17, 2005, 8:23 PM
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In reply to:
what, precisely, was the word or words that Curt used, which caused his tar-pitting? Anyone know?

Again, I ask: Why is this important?

In reply to:
and...probably the mod who pittted curt feels sort of bad....after all, he or she most likely wouldn't have ever guessed it would have caused him to leave.

[/mod]I doubt it. Personally, I wouldn't feel bad that someone got his knickers in a twist and left the site because he was asked to display some civility and refrain from unacceptable behavior. Curt left because he was asked to not do something offensive. What does that tell you about the quality of him as a person?


Partner happiegrrrl


Feb 17, 2005, 8:25 PM
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Well then I take that back. So - Reno, are you a mod, and are you the one who shit-canned Curt?

Why does it matter? It doesn't. Just asking is all. I am also wondering exactly what sort of textual misbehavior (in reality, not theory, earns a tar-pitting nowadays).


reno


Feb 17, 2005, 8:35 PM
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Well then I take that back. So - Reno, are you a mod, and are you the one who s----canned Curt?

happiegrrrl:

1) Yes, I'm a mod. Mostly I do mod stuff in Accidents/Injuries, since I know a little bit about injuries, medicine, trauma, treatment of injuries, first aid, emergency medicine, athletic training, physical therapy, and the like. I also do a little bit of mod duties here in Community, which isn't something I particularily like, but I do it to help out and contribute back to the website that has been such a wonderful resource.

2) No, I didn't "shitcan"Curt. Nobody "shitcanned" Curt. Curt stated that he was leaving RC.com. That's right... he did it himself. Nobody told him to leave. This is a distinction I wish to make clear. Nobody told Curt he wasn't welcome. At least none of us on the staff.

In reply to:
Why does it matter? It doesn't. Just asking is all. I am also wondering exactly what sort of textual misbehavior (in reality, not theory, earns a tar-pitting nowadays).

Read the TOS for an explanation of what constitutes unacceptable behavior. It's really quite simple: No Porn, no Spam, no gratuitous nudity, no personal and offensive attacks/harassment. What's so wrong about that?


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Feb 17, 2005, 8:44 PM
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I've seen some fairly offensive attacks amongst personalities within the forums that didn't appear to result in tar-pittings....I just was wondering -as I said - if anyone would direct me to the "pre-pit post." I think other people just wondered too, is all.

Not a big deal. Feel free to disregard my posts.


Partner amber


Feb 17, 2005, 8:50 PM
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In reply to:
It's really quite simple: No Porn, no Spam, no gratuitous nudity, no personal and offensive attacks/harassment. What's so wrong about that?

um, i think we forgot about catering to high school libraries and potentially psycho/disgruntled employers.


Partner amber


Feb 17, 2005, 8:57 PM
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In reply to:
Oh, okay, I've got it. I've got to misquote people to get tarpitted.

In reply to:
Hey, prospective employers, I really need a job, but for the record, I HATE ARMENIANS! And I kick puppies.

there.

TARPIT ME!!!!11

THANKS. MY BOSS DOESNT CARE THAT I SURF RC.COM AT WORK - BUT I JUST GOT WRITTEN UP BECAUSE HE THINKS THAT I KICK PUPPIES. THIS IS BOULDER COUNTY. THINGS LIKE THAT ARE AN OUTRAGE AROUND HERE.

THANKS!


Partner tattooed_climber


Feb 17, 2005, 9:03 PM
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well this fucking sucks ass....

i worked late, volunteered and started to reading a new book and i MISS ALL THIS!


what a load of fucking cum in the ear!(aka bullshit)


epic_ed


Feb 17, 2005, 9:03 PM
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Curt's a good friend and I'm going to miss his input. Mods and Admins collectively share the decision making process for metting out consequences, but the TOS really makes the decisions for us in many cases. He had been formally warned for taking it too far in the recent past (1st warning), and this was the second incident. The objectivity comes into play where we all discuss what is "too far." There were two people involved in the exchange and you know Curt -- he'll escalate the battle as far as the other party is willing to take it. Most of us felt it was over the top.

Curt, you're welcome to come back any time, bro. Once and for all, let me make it clear, Curt is not banned. He chose to leave.

Ed


epic_ed


Feb 17, 2005, 9:07 PM
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In reply to:
I've seen some fairly offensive attacks amongst personalities within the forums that didn't appear to result in tar-pittings....I just was wondering -as I said - if anyone would direct me to the "pre-pit post." I think other people just wondered too, is all.

Not a big deal. Feel free to disregard my posts.

We can't. The post was removed. Yep. The entire post is archived because there was content in it that did more than just violate the TOS (content which was not Curt's), it offended some potential business partners.

Ed


Partner amber


Feb 17, 2005, 9:16 PM
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In reply to:
I've seen some fairly offensive attacks amongst personalities within the forums that didn't appear to result in tar-pittings....I just was wondering -as I said - if anyone would direct me to the "pre-pit post." I think other people just wondered too, is all.

Not a big deal. Feel free to disregard my posts.

We can't. The post was removed. Yep. The entire post is archived because there was content in it that did more than just violate the TOS (content which was not Curt's), it offended some potential business partners.

Ed

isnt it bad ethics to let advertisers determine content?


epic_ed


Feb 17, 2005, 9:32 PM
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I think so.


Partner philbox
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Feb 17, 2005, 10:50 PM
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isnt it bad ethics to let advertisers determine content?

I`d agree with this generally but if and I do not refer to any particular post when I say if a post contained potentially libellous material that could take the site down by way of legal avenues then I certianly want to yank that sort of post or thread.

I also wish to cultivate good business relations with the mags and other climbing related companies so that you the users can continue to enjoy a "free" site.

It is unseemly to see full scale wars break out in the open forums, that I won`t tolerate and will act whenever that goes down.

We do wish to see a civil society evolve within this online climbing community. I think that 99% of us here wish for the same thing so that we are all able to reap the benefits of being able to use this marvellous resource to find partners and jaw a little whilst dodging the boss while we are online. All of us that is except amber, she doesn`t have to dodge the boss cos she surfs rc in front of him. :wink:


Partner tradman


Feb 18, 2005, 1:15 AM
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this site...can't decide whether it wants to be a cooperative, user-supported website, or a corporate, commercial entity.

Putting my web guy hat on, if the management take note of one comment in this thread it should be this one.

Serious commerical sites take their responsibilities seriously. That means if there is a disciplinary procedure, it is fair and transparent to everyone. Side-stepping the issue of exactly who tarpitted who and what the comments were that led to it breeds exactly the culture we have here - there isn't really that much nepotism and back-scratching going on, but it looks like there is because the management close ranks and won't accept responsibility when there's conflict.

Okay, I'll take that hat off now.

Curt, sorry to see you go.

http://www.digitalface.co.uk/curt.jpg


Partner one900johnnyk


Feb 18, 2005, 3:57 AM
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ps does anyone know who the moron is who tarpitted curt?

Why does this matter?

well i'd like to find out what the hell they were thinking and how they arrived at this decision. to tarpit someone who was in the process of organizing (and doing the bulk of the leg work) for the protection of queen creek, and communicating abundantly through this site is absolutely foolish... from a CLIMBER'S perspective, at least, which seems to be a perspective this website desperately lacks.... so in short it matters because i want to learn more about the situation.


perozee


Feb 18, 2005, 5:00 AM
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Bye Bye Curt. I won't miss you


Partner jules


Feb 18, 2005, 5:44 AM
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Anyone who stays anywhere for an extended period of time and expects it to not change is seriously delusional.

When I gave up in the case of Jules vs. Things She Cannot Change, it was a happy day.

That court shit is expensive.


reno


Feb 18, 2005, 5:54 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
ps does anyone know who the moron is who tarpitted curt?

Why does this matter?

well i'd like to find out what the hell they were thinking and how they arrived at this decision. to tarpit someone who was in the process of organizing (and doing the bulk of the leg work) for the protection of queen creek, and communicating abundantly through this site is absolutely foolish... from a CLIMBER'S perspective, at least, which seems to be a perspective this website desperately lacks.... so in short it matters because i want to learn more about the situation.

What they were thinking was *probably* something like this:

"Oh, wow.... Curt's comments to this other user are way out of line, and they violate the TOS. Curt has been warned before about this sort of thing, yet he's still doing it. I'll consult with the other mods, ask them for input, and then decide on an appropriate action. In the meantime, I'll ask Curt to refrain from making such offensive and inappropriate posts."

Or something like that.


dookie


Feb 18, 2005, 6:01 AM
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then again, look at who some of the mods are.
As much as I love him, Bumblie - who has personally attacked and been an ass to just about every user here who he doesn't meet eye to eye with - is a mod. :lol:


madriver


Feb 18, 2005, 6:04 AM
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..drama...


josephine


Feb 18, 2005, 6:05 AM
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..more drama...drama... drama...drama...drama

oops sorry wrong thread

:wink:


madriver


Feb 18, 2005, 6:08 AM
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:lol: :lol: :lol:


...Hey Joe...


WAT UP!!!!!!!!!

hugs and kisses

MR :lol: :lol:


Partner tgreene


Feb 18, 2005, 6:14 AM
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In reply to:
:lol: :lol: :lol:


...Hey Joe...


WAT UP!!!!!!!!!

hugs and kisses

MR :lol: :lol:

Hey pal, that's SEXUAL HARASSMENT, which is a blatant violation of the TOS!!!123456789 :shock:

I demand an immediate death and dismemberment of MR, before these insidious acts of wanton disregard are allowed to continue!


josephine


Feb 18, 2005, 6:20 AM
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:lol: :lol: :lol:


...Hey Joe...


WAT UP!!!!!!!!!

hugs and kisses

MR :lol: :lol:

YO MR!

I'm FANTABULOUS today!

HUGZZZZZZ and muahzz

How's you?How's the kids? How's the wife?
How's the dog?the cat?

How's the +++post count?
:lol: 8^)

I see the drama hits again this place... :arrow: :?: :idea: :!:

it's my fault though that's why the drama queens/kings should give me the blame...and stop the mod hunting....
It's getting old :deadhorse:

:roll:

Bye bye MR,good to see ya!!! :wink:

:Lobe:

P :mrgreen:


Partner tgreene


Feb 18, 2005, 6:26 AM
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HUGZZZZZZ and muahzz

YIKES -- Now we have a Mod doing the whole SEXUAL HARASSMENT thingy... :x

Ya know, Rome started out this way too........................................... :idea:


josephine


Feb 18, 2005, 6:27 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
HUGZZZZZZ and muahzz

YIKES -- Now we have a Mod doing the whole SEXUAL HARASSMENT thingy... :x

Ya know, Rome started out this way too........................................... :idea:

eh?who's a mod? :? :P


bumblie


Feb 18, 2005, 6:28 AM
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then again, look at who some of the mods are.
As much as I love him, Bumblie - who has personally attacked and been an ass to just about every user here who he doesn't meet eye to eye with - is a mod. :lol:

You say "personally attacked", I think of it as pointing out ones obvious shortcomings. Maybe it's just that I'm incapable of picking upp on the thin-skinned nature of many of the "climbers" on this site. :lol:


madriver


Feb 18, 2005, 6:40 AM
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josephine wrote:
In reply to:
In reply to:
madriver wrote:



...Hey Joe...


WAT UP!!!!!!!!!

hugs and kisses

MR


YO MR!

I'm FANTABULOUS today!

HUGZZZZZZ and muahzz

How's you?How's the kids? How's the wife?
How's the dog?the cat?

How's the +++post count?


I see the drama hits again this place...

it's my fault though that's why the drama queens/kings should give me the blame...and stop the mod hunting....
It's getting old



Bye bye MR,good to see ya!!!

:Lobe:

P


yo Joe...all is good the whole family is finally well at once...so I'm off skiing next week..


as far as picking on Mods...it's easy...it's also like picking a scab...the more you do it....the more they become infected!!!!!! :D


remember...

"be there or be nose hair"

Love
T.O S.Elliot


madriver


Feb 18, 2005, 6:45 AM
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tgreene wrote:

In reply to:
In reply to:
ma driver wrote:



...Hey Joe...


WAT UP!!!!!!!!!

hugs and kisses

MR


Hey pal, that's SEXUAL HARASSMENT, which is a blatant violation of the TOS!!!123456789

I demand an immediate death and dismemberment of MR, before these insidious acts of wanton disregard are allowed to continue!

....stalker..


...didn't you get busted for your sunset pics? Very nice BTW. How come you didn't take your ball and go home?


Partner tgreene


Feb 18, 2005, 6:53 AM
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Hehehe -- I've posted PORN on 4 seperate occassions, and only tarpitted for the 2nd one. Oddly enough, it was MODS that covered my ass on the other 3 occassions! :wink:


Partner amber


Feb 18, 2005, 8:11 AM
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In reply to:
What they were thinking was *probably* something like this:

"Oh, wow.... Curt's comments to this other user are way out of line, and they violate the TOS. Curt has been warned before about this sort of thing, yet he's still doing it. I'll consult with the other mods, ask them for input, and then decide on an appropriate action. In the meantime, I'll ask Curt to refrain from making such offensive and inappropriate posts."

Or something like that.

Actually, from reading between the lines, it was probably something closer to, "Oh Shit. Curt has pissed off (insert advertiser name). Christ, what am I going to do. We need to shut him up - quick! Wait. I'll post in M&E asking for support in tarpitting him and then send him a warning."

(said moderators posts in M&E and then quickly goes back to controversial thread.)

"Shit, the flame war is still going on. Shit Shit Shit. What do I do? Fuck, I hate this. Damn it, Curt. Stop"

(remembers the tarpit)

"Well, I can tarpit him so that he cant respond very often. That will help. I'll do that and then post in M&E that I've tarpitted him and offer to undo it if anyone disagrees."

(moderator tarpits Curt. Curt gets pissed, posts in community one final time, and then leaves.)

On a separate note, it is my understanding that this advertiser has made a fuss in the past regarding the content of rc.com, and the advertiser was told that rc.com wont discipline its users to satisify an advertiser. (good, ethical response - then again, the admin team was substantially different at the time.)

However, now the advertiser is pissed because someone in management doesnt like their product. That's just lame. It's lame of the advertiser to be so petty, and it's lame of rc.com to roll over and discipline one of its mainstay users to pacify an advertiser. Not to mention the fact that it is a completely unethical way to handle business relations.

I know that there are high hopes of rc.com using its membership to become some high roller website, but really - the more that you treat us like crap, the more that we're going to find other places to hang out - which means that your precious numbers will begin to dwindle, and the people who you once changed values and altered ethics for wont give much of a shit about you either.


Partner tgreene


Feb 18, 2005, 8:17 AM
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Amber:

An answer like that can only deserve a cookie... (Ignore the "Got Milk?" part though, because you would have to grow breasts first) :twisted:

http://eatingdisorderresources.com/mediablog/cookie.jpg


yanqui


Feb 18, 2005, 8:37 AM
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Curt left because he was asked to not do something offensive. What does that tell you about the quality of him as a person?

I know the guy and this sounds like a lie to me. No doubt Curt can be confrontational, and yes even offensive (few people are never offensive) but I know for a fact that if Curt were treated in a respectful and reasonable fashion that he would respond in kind.

Personally, I find your implication thay Curt is somehow lacking in quality as a person highly offensive. And I feel you owe him an apology.


Partner tgreene


Feb 18, 2005, 8:42 AM
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Personally, I find your implication thay Curt is somehow lacking in quality as a person highly offensive. And I feel you owe him an apology.
^ WORD!


shakylegs


Feb 18, 2005, 8:47 AM
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Curt left because he was asked to not do something offensive. What does that tell you about the quality of him as a person?

I know the guy and this sounds like a lie to me. No doubt Curt can be confrontational, and yes even offensive (few people are never offensive) but I know for a fact that if Curt were treated in a respectful and reasonable fashion that he would respond in kind.

Personally, I find your implication thay Curt is somehow lacking in quality as a person highly offensive. And I feel you owe him an apology.


Wow. You sound so angry that you could spit! And stamp your foot. More than once, no less.


dingus


Feb 18, 2005, 8:58 AM
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Personally, I find your implication thay Curt is somehow lacking in quality as a person highly offensive. And I feel you owe him an apology.
^ WORD!

Oh please! If everyone on this site got the apology they deserved for less than flattering implications posted here... curt would have a helluva lot of apologizing to do himself.

Ego and narcissism are big components clearly. I'll be the first to raise my hand and admit, guilty, guilty as charged. It always comes as a blow when others do not see the same value we see in ourselves. The temptation to lash out, to take our marbles and leave, is powerful.

The thinking or people like curt and me is that we tend to believe our positive contributions excuse our lapses. We become insulted and demoralized when we discover not everyone shares our high opinions of ourselves.

That is the biggest component in all this and you folks are just kidding yourselves if you think otherwise.

That said, when you muzzle a contributor in favor of an advertiser complaint, if that is truly what happened, you run the risk of alienating not just the one contributor, but future contributors as well.

It is one thing for R&I or whatever to muzzle an errant staff writer to protect REI or whatever, and clearly a sound business decision as well. But if you take that impulse too far you end up with gear review editions where the only gear reviewed is that of the advertisers and the only results published are positive. It undermines the integrity of the publication. Now whether that actually matters to the readers is an open question.

In terms of 'taking his marbles with him'...

rrrAdam demonstrated in no uncertain terms that posted contributions are at continual risk if the OP leaves them behind. Compendiums of posters, ie 'best of' readers digest like posts, where someone takes it upon himself to republish the works of others without bothering iwht little niceities such as permission, are another example. Until concrete copyright protections are implemented and posted for all to see and read, until the volunteer mods have their edit privileges taken away from them for good, this is the only sound course for a departing contributor to take. Surely you see that?

I'm sorry if that stings the management and mods. Actually I only care about management, I hope you mods take it to heart and take it personally. You have no business, ever, editing the contributioins of your peers on this site, for any reason whatsoever. That you take these liberties with works you cannot yoursleves produce says as much about you as the actions of egomaniacs like me and curt say about us.

We're an interesting carnival mirror, all of us.

Protect the copyrights! Your integrity is at stake.

Cheers
DMT


Partner one900johnnyk


Feb 18, 2005, 9:13 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
What they were thinking was *probably* something like this:

"Oh, wow.... Curt's comments to this other user are way out of line, and they violate the TOS. Curt has been warned before about this sort of thing, yet he's still doing it. I'll consult with the other mods, ask them for input, and then decide on an appropriate action. In the meantime, I'll ask Curt to refrain from making such offensive and inappropriate posts."

Or something like that.

Actually, from reading between the lines, it was probably something closer to, "Oh s---. Curt has pissed off (insert advertiser name). Christ, what am I going to do. We need to shut him up - quick! Wait. I'll post in M&E asking for support in tarpitting him and then send him a warning."

(said moderators posts in M&E and then quickly goes back to controversial thread.)

"s---, the flame war is still going on. s--- s--- s---. What do I do? f---, I hate this. Damn it, Curt. Stop"

(remembers the tarpit)

"Well, I can tarpit him so that he cant respond very often. That will help. I'll do that and then post in M&E that I've tarpitted him and offer to undo it if anyone disagrees."

(moderator tarpits Curt. Curt gets pissed, posts in community one final time, and then leaves.)

On a separate note, it is my understanding that this advertiser has made a fuss in the past regarding the content of rc.com, and the advertiser was told that rc.com wont discipline its users to satisify an advertiser. (good, ethical response - then again, the admin team was substantially different at the time.)

However, now the advertiser is pissed because someone in management doesnt like their product. That's just lame. It's lame of the advertiser to be so petty, and it's lame of rc.com to roll over and discipline one of its mainstay users to pacify an advertiser. Not to mention the fact that it is a completely unethical way to handle business relations.

I know that there are high hopes of rc.com using its membership to become some high roller website, but really - the more that you treat us like crap, the more that we're going to find other places to hang out - which means that your precious numbers will begin to dwindle, and the people who you once changed values and altered ethics for wont give much of a s--- about you either.

thanks for the response. i think though, that the traffic will always be high. you get the cyber popularity whores who hang out here, plus the new people.... there's a honeymoon period i guess....


epic_ed


Feb 18, 2005, 9:20 AM
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Until concrete copyright protections are implemented and posted for all to see and read, until the volunteer mods have their edit privileges taken away from them for good, this is the only sound course for a departing contributor to take. Surely you see that?

They have been. We no longer have the ability to edit posts. Only remove or leave as is.

A point of clarification -- the tarpit was issued not issued to Curt directly because of advertiser's complaints. The offending posts were over the top and consequences would have occured if he directed those comments to any member of the site. It's my opinion that because of who the exchange was with, it made it even less likely that Curt's comments would be overlooked or ignored.

But it was the entire thread that was removed because it was an incendiary topic that was causing a rift between RC.com and potential business partners. Those are the only changes made directly as the result of advertisers complaints. Debate those merits if you wish, but those complaints weren't the motive behind any sactions on any particular member.

Ed


yanqui


Feb 18, 2005, 9:21 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Curt left because he was asked to not do something offensive. What does that tell you about the quality of him as a person?

I know the guy and this sounds like a lie to me. No doubt Curt can be confrontational, and yes even offensive (few people are never offensive) but I know for a fact that if Curt were treated in a respectful and reasonable fashion that he would respond in kind.

Personally, I find your implication thay Curt is somehow lacking in quality as a person highly offensive. And I feel you owe him an apology.

Wow. You sound so angry that you could spit! And stamp your foot. More than once, no less.

I thought the important thing was to be nonoffensive. I find spitting and stamping feet highly offensive. Oh yeah, and if someone I'm climbing with starts getting shakylegs, they go immediately off belay until the shaking stops.


Partner one900johnnyk


Feb 18, 2005, 9:25 AM
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to end the speculation about what happened, why doesn't someone just post the details of the thread in question.. i guess it was removed and i can't find that archive forum that used to exist. maybe i'm overlooking something...


epic_ed


Feb 18, 2005, 9:29 AM
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YES. You must have missed this:

In reply to:
We can't. The post was removed. Yep. The entire post is archived because there was content in it that did more than just violate the TOS (content which was not Curt's), it offended some potential business partners.

Ed


murf


Feb 18, 2005, 9:37 AM
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I guess the other question is did Samet get tarpitted? I never did see the "over the top" post, as the whole thing was being edited wildly on the spot. It was clear from what I did see that Samet wasn't blameless in the whole thing. In fact, AFAIK, he started it, although I'm not sure that matters too much unless you are on the playground or in a gun fight.

I have to speculate that the thread was removed as much as to protect Samet himself as to protect the "business relationship". The dude acted like a freaking child, and anonymously as well ( at least at first ).

Amber's play-by-play seems the most likely at this point.

From the drama sidelines, the fact that the mod who tarpitted Curt hasn't named themselves only adds to the "conspiracy" hogs. You ( the staff ) bring this shit on yourselves half the time.


In reply to:
YES. You must have missed this:

In reply to:
We can't. The post was removed. Yep. The entire post is archived because there was content in it that did more than just violate the TOS (content which was not Curt's), it offended some potential business partners.

Ed


Partner one900johnnyk


Feb 18, 2005, 9:39 AM
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YES. You must have missed this:

In reply to:
We can't. The post was removed. Yep. The entire post is archived because there was content in it that did more than just violate the TOS (content which was not Curt's), it offended some potential business partners.

Ed

yeah but someone can recount what happened basically, besides samet telling curt to go f himself.. people don't necessarily need the exact post at their disposal to keep this from going around in circles... (but i DID miss it, good call..)


dingus


Feb 18, 2005, 9:42 AM
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Until concrete copyright protections are implemented and posted for all to see and read, until the volunteer mods have their edit privileges taken away from them for good, this is the only sound course for a departing contributor to take. Surely you see that?

They have been. We no longer have the ability to edit posts. Only remove or leave as is.

Great news. I wasn't aware it had been implemented.

In reply to:
But it was the entire thread that was removed because it was an incendiary topic that was causing a rift between RC.com and potential business partners. Those are the only changes made directly as the result of advertisers complaints. Debate those merits if you wish, but those complaints weren't the motive behind any sactions on any particular member.

Ed

Got it. A business decision was made. I haven't personally seen that this site is over the top in that respect. When my company is courting a new client it would be ill advised of me to simultaneously antagonize that client.

I have personally been thankful and have expressed those thanks to management for a thread suppression here so I would be disingenuous to say it ought not to be done.

I guess if I had to concede that there is a need for *some* moderation on a site as large as this... I would prefer a benevolent dictatorship to an Animal Farm government.

DMT


Partner tgreene


Feb 18, 2005, 9:50 AM
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Got it. A business decision was made. I haven't personally seen that this site is over the top in that respect. When my company is courting a new client it would be ill advised of me to simultaneously antagonize that client.
Aye, but wouldn't that also be akin to Wal-Mart enacting a strict policy that forbade their CUSTOMERS from critisizing/knocking a product or company that Wal-Mart does business with..?

Yes, me thinks it would, and if Wal-Mart were to ever enact such a rediculous policy, they would inadvertantly and unwittingly be building business' for future competitors of theirs.

This is just about $.02 worth of thought food to chew on. :?


dingus


Feb 18, 2005, 10:05 AM
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Aye, but wouldn't that also be akin to Wal-Mart enacting a strict policy that forbade their CUSTOMERS from critisizing/knocking a product or company that Wal-Mart does business with..?

Yes, me thinks it would, and if Wal-Mart were to ever enact such a rediculous policy, they would inadvertantly and unwittingly be building business' for future competitors of theirs.

This is just about $.02 worth of thought food to chew on. :?

Great example tgreen. My company's client list includes some of the world's largest retailers, so the subject is near and dear to me. Seriously, though Walmart is not among them, its a great example. In fact I almost used it.

I detest Walmart. I have begin to suspect Sam Walton was a Satanist bent on the destruction of the American Way. I believe Walmart has done more to destroy small town America than any other single entity, Zeus like in that their contribution outweighs all the other contenders combined.

Now Walmart is busily doing to American business what it did to Small Town America, destroying it piecemeal and exporting it closer to the shipping lanes and cheap labor.

I refuse to shop at Walmart, though I haven't been able to convince my wife to do the same and I am not in the business of dictating opinions to my wife!

Do you get the impression I detest Walmart??? I could go on for pages.

But I guarentee you this.... if my company was actively courting their business and found out I was publically blasting Walmart and Walmart complained? I'd be looking for a job post haste. Not only that, if I ran the company and was courting Walmart business and had another 500 mouths to feed and a significant long term debt to pay off? I'd fire my ass too!

Its a business decision. Rarely are these decisions clean, or built soley upon principle, but are more often economic necessity. Its just the way the gray old world works and I know you know its true. Sometimes you have to make the right decision for the wrong reasons and live with the bad taste in your mouth. That too is the American way.

Cheers
DMT


dookie


Feb 18, 2005, 10:11 AM
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today on the Jerry Springer show.....
he was tarpitted on a rock climbing website, and now the users are pissed! But what does this so called 'curt' have to say? What do the mods and admins think? Why did Curt just up and leave this site and his faithful followers? And are the administrators and mods of this website sleeping with the advertisers (or their family members?)
It's user against administration. Today on Springer.


... and until then, be good to yourselves....
and each other.


:lol: :lol: :roll:


Partner tgreene


Feb 18, 2005, 10:25 AM
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But I guarentee you this.... if my company (EMPLOYER) was actively courting their business and found out I (EMPLOYEE) was publically blasting Walmart and Walmart complained? I'd be looking for a job post haste. Not only that, if I ran the company and was courting Walmart business and had another 500 mouths to feed and a significant long term debt to pay off? I'd fire my ass too!
Agreed to an extent, but your overall logic is flawed in that your company (or Wal-Mart) would neither alienate nor terminate it's customers... It is a FACT that the end users (members) are the customers that the advertisers are trying to reach, so as long as RC maintains a commercial aspect, we are and always will be customers first and foremost!

IIRC, Curt was neither Staff nor Mod, which makes him a CUSTOMER that was regulated by the thought police, because the Staff feared that a vendors feeling may be hurt. Guess what, the RC "store manager" just lost a valued customer that has voted with his wallet and taken his business elsewhere... Also note that trickle down effects wil take place.

Now, on to the subject of *potential* Advertisers... A month and a half ago, I sent emails to top Staf members about an add contract for a company that I was marketing. I included my full contact info to include email and phone numbers, but to date, No response has ever been received. From a marketing standpoint (and I'm a Marketing Consultant) that has created a level of negative advertising on the part of RC, that will be difficult to overcome, because my client has not been amused by the lack of responses.

At this point, I think it's very safe to say that "Selective Operations" are the overiding factor here, because if paying advertisers were the main priority/obligation/concern, one might think that the ink would have long been dried on the add contract that I was trying to produce for RC! :idea:


the_pirate


Feb 18, 2005, 10:32 AM
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Dingus had no red text in his post. You have been found guilty of misquoting him and will receive the maximum punishment allowable by TOS.


epic_ed


Feb 18, 2005, 10:32 AM
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TIm and Dingus -- good points. How about this scenario, and this is pretty much how it was explained to me:

Stock clerk at Walmart despises Huffy bikes (do they even exist anymore?). In fact, said clerk owns and has owned many Huffy bikes in the past, but his recent bikes have been letting him down for a variety of reasons. In fact, his most recent and newly purchased bike just fell apart and now he's really pissed. In recent conversations with other Huffy owners, the clerk finds out that he's not alone in his disappointment with the quality of Huffy bikes in recent years.

Irony or ironies, he finds out a reporter is doing a feature on the recent decline of the Huffy Corporation and the reporter contacts him to ask his opinion. His comments are blunt, mean, and insulting, but not untrue. He speaks only of his experience and his opinion of Huffy bikes. The story gets published, and gets a lot of publicity.

Unknown to our lowly stock clerk, the management and marketing department at Walmart has been in negotiations with Huffy for months to start distributing their products, and as a result of finding out that the stock clerk is employed with Walmart, the business relationship is strained and becomes a point of contention in their business negotiations.

What's the issue here? Who is at fault? What should the consequences be? Does the stock clerk get canned? Reprimanded? What about other products? Has the cleck, by virtue of his association as an employee of Walmart, forever given up his right to express his dissatisfaction with not only the products that Walmart carries, but any potential product line/manufacturer?

Ed

*Hear that? That's the distinct sound of a can of worms being opened...


the_pirate


Feb 18, 2005, 10:35 AM
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The story gets published, and
he really should have asked to be quoted annonomously.


Partner tgreene


Feb 18, 2005, 10:40 AM
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What's the issue here? Who is at fault? What should the consequences be?
While EMPLOYED for Wal-Mart, said employee is required under his agreement w/ said employer to act in a responsible manner in which to not harm or discredit employer in any manner. This is a typical employment agreement.

Again, and as I pointed out, the difference is in employers and employees, NOT the customers!

BTW: I'm almost offended enough to call up all of the advertisers and complain about being called Tom, because my name is TIM! :wink:


epic_ed


Feb 18, 2005, 10:45 AM
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Oh crap. I really did call you Tom. :shock:

But how has said employee discredited his employer? He was asked a question about a product he has experience with -- he's a Huffy customer -- and it's not even a product that Walmart carries.

Ed


epic_ed


Feb 18, 2005, 10:46 AM
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Oh crap. I really did call you Tom. :shock:

But how has said employee discredited his employer? He was asked a question about a product he has experience with -- he's a Huffy customer -- and it's not even a product that Walmart carries.

Ed


dingus


Feb 18, 2005, 10:49 AM
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Now, on to the subject of *potential* Advertisers... A month and a half ago, I sent emails to top Staf members about an add contract for a company that I was marketing. I included my full contact info to include email and phone numbers, but to date, No response has ever been received. From a marketing standpoint (and I'm a Marketing Consultant) that has created a level of negative advertising on the part of RC, that will be difficult to overcome, because my client has not been amused by the lack of responses.

We're adrift in a sea of threads here, but no matter.

You solicited rc.com on behalf of a client for an ad contract and you received no response. And the client blames rc.com? I guess I don't understand what a marketing consultant does then.

In reply to:
At this point, I think it's very safe to say that "Selective Operations" are the overiding factor here, because if paying advertisers were the main priority/obligation/concern, one might think that the ink would have long been dried on the add contract that I was trying to produce for RC! :idea:

I'm curious, how do you know what the reasons are?

I do to recall a stated desire of rc.com to limit advertising to climbing related companies. I think they had to let that slip some, but clearly they *wanted to be selective* from the git go? Is your client in the climbing business?

I hope to god they continue to be selective in their ads! Highly selective in fact.

Cheers man, and good luck with your client, but I'm not the guy to discuss ads with.

DMT


dingus


Feb 18, 2005, 10:55 AM
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I don't know about all this Huffy shit, employee rights and the purrfect analogy.

I do know this... if a customer of Walmart walked into a store holding up a huge sign saying, "Huffy Bikes Blow Chunks" management would remove the sign very quickly.

I'm pretty sure that's true. Even if it meant said customer would never come back. I really don't think Walmart cares about any individual consumer at all.

DMT


Partner tgreene


Feb 18, 2005, 11:02 AM
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Yes, this particular client is VERY MUCH in the climbing business! :?

The fact that RC never even responded to the quote request, was not a good sign to the overall well being and administration of this particular corporate entity.


yanqui


Feb 18, 2005, 11:56 AM
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I do know this... if a customer of Walmart walked into a store holding up a huge sign saying, "Huffy Bikes Blow Chunks" management would remove the sign very quickly.
DMT

Ha. Huffy bikes way suck. And so does Walmart.

Is it really necessary that this site aspire to the ideal of a Walmart selling Huffy bikes? That's certainly not why I spend my valuable time posting information on climbing in Argentina or answering e-mails and giving free advice to people who contact me through this site.

Fuck, I don't know what the hell I expect from this joint, but it sure ain't Walmart and it sure ain't Huffy bikes. One thing's for sure: it's nice to have a few posters around who really know something about climbing. Fuck, I'm just pissed that Curt got chased away. He's a thick-skinned guy, who took more insults than most. He doesn't run easy. It smells like something's rotten in Denmark.


epic_ed


Feb 18, 2005, 12:04 PM
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Is it really necessary that this site aspire to the ideal of a Walmart selling Huffy bikes? That's certainly not why I spend my valuable time posting information on climbing in Argentina or answering e-mails and giving free advice to people who contact me through this site.

You're missing the point. I was trying to make an analogy with some other stuff that is going on with the site right now. It was a bit too much of a thread drift. Sorry. Carry on.

Ed


Partner amber


Feb 18, 2005, 12:10 PM
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although the analogies are interesting, i'm not convinced that they're completely accurate. rc.com is NOT a retail outlet. rc.com is a website that sells ad space and forms business relationships based on the number of people who regularly visit this site.

what's more, it's not clear what rc.com's overall objective is. as camhead stated earlier, the site seems to be caught between wanting to be a business and wanting to be a grassroots climbing resource.

honestly, i think the site had more to offer when advertisers werent calling the shots. the more rules that are placed on the community per advertisers and the more threads that are edited or skirted away behind the curtain, the more that users will become disgruntled and fins other sandboxes to play in.

if the site plans to be more about commercialism than it is about providing a sense of community for climbers, then that's management's decision - but my guess is that they will not continue enjoying a solid base of mainstay climbers. rather, they will have a revolving door of people who come and go, which leads to a lack of loyality, which ultimately makes that group less useful to companies on tight marketing budgets.

advertisers, especially advertisers in the climbing segment, are looking for the most efficient way to communicate with their intended audience. moreover, it's commonly accepted that the more passionate a person is about the medium in which they encounter advertising, the more likely it is that they will not disregard the advertisement as 'noise' and WILL consider a purchase from said advertiser.

think of it this way, you're really excited about a small business and want to do what you can to help them out vs just being 'there' and not really caring if they survive or not - which is a more important consumer attitude for advertisers? 98% support of advertisers because we really like the medium where we encounter advertising or 28% support because people just dont care. (btw, numbers are FPO - duh)

treating users like crap in favor of advertisers is counter-productive on multiple levels. a) it's makes those of us who actually like the mainstay member who was recently shat upon less likely to have favorable opinions about said advertiser. b) it makes us much less enthusiastic about the organization (rc.com), thereby reducing the likelihood that we'll pay attention to ads on the site, muchless make a purchase from them .. and since rc.com's defense seems to be all about the bottom line, they should keep in mind that they, too, are a little fish in that game. if we're not buying stuff from advertisers because we're tired of being used as part of a numbers game, that well, too, will eventually dry up.

from my own personal experience, there was a point in time where i LOVED rc.com and would go out of my way to purchase from advertisers. things around here have changed, and mgear is the only advertiser (aside from gear manufacturers) that i will buy from, and that's mostly because i'm of the opinion that mgear kicks ass.

finally, would R&I tell a loyal reader and contributor of three years to piss off because said reader/contributor didnt like the products of one of their advertisers? what if said reader wrote a letter to the editor for climbing that got published? would they tell that reader that they could no longer subscribe, or would they attempt to work out an amicable situation between reader and advertiser? my guess is that they would work diligently to build a bridge for the reader/contributor and advertiser, instead of telling the reader/contributor to stop being a piss ant.


Partner sauron


Feb 18, 2005, 2:43 PM
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I love all the analogies who try to blame rc.com management for Curt's decision to leave.

I only have one thing to say to Curt regarding this:

If you can't take the heat, don't play with fire.


- d.


blowboarder


Feb 18, 2005, 3:12 PM
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I like to take my meat & set it on fire.


Goddamit, someone alert the techie guys that my posts in that other thread are ending up all over the board. :lol:


Partner amber


Feb 18, 2005, 3:22 PM
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I love all the analogies who try to blame rc.com management for Curt's decision to leave.

My beef isnt about Curt's decision to leave so much as it's about rc.com tarpitting a user because an advertiser got pissed about what the user had to say about the advertiser's product.

I also think it's lame that an advertiser would complain about users and staff for voicing unfavorable opinions about their product. If honest opinions about their product are hurting business, then maybe they should consider improving their product instead of silencing those who arent psyched on it.

Finally, it's incredibly unethical to allow advertisers to determine content in a content-driven medium. People should be allowed to express honest opinions without fear of discipline for disliking the products of someone who advertises here.


unabonger


Feb 18, 2005, 3:32 PM
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I also think it's lame that an advertiser would complain about users and staff for voicing unfavorable opinions about their product. If honest opinions about their product are hurting business, then maybe they should consider improving their product instead of silencing those who arent psyched on it.

Finally, it's incredibly unethical to allow advertisers to determine content in a content-driven medium. People should be allowed to express honest opinions without fear of discipline for disliking the products of someone who advertises here.

Well said.

The thing about advertising on this site is that if I was able to name a single brand, it would be an utter accident. Sort of ineffective if you ask me.


Partner one900johnnyk


Feb 18, 2005, 3:35 PM
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I love all the analogies who try to blame rc.com management for Curt's decision to leave.

I only have one thing to say to Curt regarding this:

If you can't take the heat, don't play with fire.


- d.



my beef is with the idiot who tarpitted a user organzing what should be a large rally to save a local crag for the sake of saving face in front of some bs advertiser.

and for as much as i enjoyed reading his posts, and the advice he gave i hope he stays away..


jt512


Feb 18, 2005, 3:57 PM
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My beef isnt about Curt's decision to leave so much as it's about rc.com tarpitting a user because an advertiser got pissed about what the user had to say about the advertiser's product.

Then you have no beef because that is not why he was tarpitted.

-Jay


elvislegs


Feb 18, 2005, 4:09 PM
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hey, while we're all gathered here, i'd just like to mention something important to me...

CHECK OUT THE HONDA RIDGELINE IT'S LIKE OUR CAROLLA HATCHBACK, ONLY....OMG IT'S A TRUCK!!11!141 :D HONFDAA!!1 :D :D

and also... magnetic climbing walls blow goat dick.


fracture


Feb 18, 2005, 4:20 PM
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In reply to:
I also think it's lame that an advertiser would complain about users and staff for voicing unfavorable opinions about their product. If honest opinions about their product are hurting business, then maybe they should consider improving their product instead of silencing those who arent psyched on it.

Finally, it's incredibly unethical to allow advertisers to determine content in a content-driven medium. People should be allowed to express honest opinions without fear of discipline for disliking the products of someone who advertises here.

Well said.

The thing about advertising on this site is that if I was able to name a single brand, it would be an utter accident. Sort of ineffective if you ask me.

Same here. The only thing I remember about ads on RC.com is that there were some fucking annoying flash-based ones. I honestly don't have any clue what those ads were for, however.

Furthermore, personally, I never click on banner ads... ever. If I actually want to go to the site in question, I'll take the effort to type in the address so they don't get see an Http-Referrer. They have no place on the internet, as far as I'm concerned, and I won't contribute to that style of business model, no matter how much I like the site in question.


Partner macherry


Feb 18, 2005, 4:23 PM
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puts fork into thread........................


is it done yet???


Partner amber


Feb 18, 2005, 4:24 PM
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The thing about advertising on this site is that if I was able to name a single brand, it would be an utter accident. Sort of ineffective if you ask me.

Transparent business relationships are generally the most effective. ;)


Partner amber


Feb 18, 2005, 4:26 PM
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In reply to:

My beef isnt about Curt's decision to leave so much as it's about rc.com tarpitting a user because an advertiser got pissed about what the user had to say about the advertiser's product.

Then you have no beef because that is not why he was tarpitted.

-Jay

Then perhaps management should organize a better response and stop being so damned secretive about everything.


dingus


Feb 18, 2005, 4:27 PM
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Is it really necessary that this site aspire to the ideal of a Walmart selling Huffy bikes?

Whoa sorry there buckaroo, didn't mean to spin your brain counter clockwise. Why is such an important dude wasting his time in community anyway? Entering in some Argentinian gossip or something?

Curt got in a huff (get it ... huff??? Hah! Sometimes I just kill myself) and left. That makes him huffy. I bet the boy even shops walmart too. So there you have it... a mystic connection of monumental unimportance.

DMT


maculated


Feb 18, 2005, 4:29 PM
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Seems to me like everyone should quit speculating unless they know the whole story. I'm fairly surprised that this thread is allowed to continue, but I see that as a positive.


Partner amber


Feb 18, 2005, 4:37 PM
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It seems to me like the site should be more willing to just answer questions honestly so that people dont have to speculate.


elvislegs


Feb 18, 2005, 4:49 PM
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seriously tho.

BUY HONDA! :D


jt512


Feb 18, 2005, 4:50 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:

My beef isnt about Curt's decision to leave so much as it's about rc.com tarpitting a user because an advertiser got pissed about what the user had to say about the advertiser's product.

Then you have no beef because that is not why he was tarpitted.

-Jay

Then perhaps management should organize a better response and stop being so damned secretive about everything.

Maybe they should, but that doesn't justify what you did. This rumor about Curt's having been tarpitted because he offended an advertiser was invented by you in the following quoted post.

In reply to:
In reply to:
What they were thinking was *probably* something like this:

"Oh, wow.... Curt's comments to this other user are way out of line, and they violate the TOS. Curt has been warned before about this sort of thing, yet he's still doing it. I'll consult with the other mods, ask them for input, and then decide on an appropriate action. In the meantime, I'll ask Curt to refrain from making such offensive and inappropriate posts."

Or something like that.

Actually, from reading between the lines, it was probably something closer to, "Oh Shit. Curt has pissed off (insert advertiser name). Christ, what am I going to do. We need to shut him up - quick! Wait. I'll post in M&E asking for support in tarpitting him and then send him a warning."

-Jay


reno


Feb 18, 2005, 4:56 PM
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f---, I'm just pissed that Curt got chased away. He's a thick-skinned guy, who took more insults than most. He doesn't run easy. It smells like something's rotten in Denmark.

Yanqui:

I'm sorry, just like you are, that Curt has decided to no longer post here on RC.com.

Again, however, this was HIS decision. He was not forced out. He was not pushed out. He was not banned. He was not chased away.

He was asked to follow the TOS.

We let a LOT of things people say slide by, as it really isn't our place to tell people what they can and can not say. But we do have some standards of decency and expectations of behavior.

Think of it like this: Say you have Cancer. I make a snide remark to you during a discussion that "Why the f--k should I care about your opinion? You're gonna be worm shit in 6 months, you cancerous scum."

Would you consider that to be in good taste? Would you support and visit a website that allows such behavior?

I met Curt last September in Flag, and shared a pint of Whisky with the guy. He's a nice chap, really, from my limited time talking to him. And I think he has a TON of good stuff to offer the new climbers that frequent this website.

But just like other users in the past, one's contributions can not override one's errors. Dingus mentioned this a few pages back, and I think those words are very insightful.

Short version: Curt made a mistake. We called him on it. He left because of that.

What's so hard to understand?


caughtinside


Feb 18, 2005, 5:02 PM
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Reno,

Just come out and admit that you tarpitted and banned curt. We all know you did it.



























HAHAHAHA :lol:


Partner happiegrrrl


Feb 18, 2005, 6:35 PM
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^ Hey! I already outright asked him, and he flat-out denied it.

Anyway - if you want to ask Curt anything, he left his email in that other thread.

And....he stopped in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tar-Pitted/

Looks like we're getting quite a little group fo malcontents. Why don't you all stop in and say hi to him, and wish him well, tell him you wish he'd go to hell, or whatever else you'd like to say.


Maybe we can get him to fill us in on what happened, anyway. I would like to know which vendor (it has to be that stupid climbing wall....) thinks they can tell a resource to censor it's clientele.


Happy weekend!


Partner amber


Feb 18, 2005, 6:36 PM
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Re: Egos and Icons, and the departure of Curt. [In reply to]
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This rumor about Curt's having been tarpitted because he offended an advertiser was invented by you in the following quoted post.

In reply to:
In reply to:
What they were thinking was *probably* something like this:

"Oh, wow.... Curt's comments to this other user are way out of line, and they violate the TOS. Curt has been warned before about this sort of thing, yet he's still doing it. I'll consult with the other mods, ask them for input, and then decide on an appropriate action. In the meantime, I'll ask Curt to refrain from making such offensive and inappropriate posts."

Or something like that.

Actually, from reading between the lines, it was probably something closer to, "Oh s---. Curt has pissed off (insert advertiser name). Christ, what am I going to do. We need to shut him up - quick! Wait. I'll post in M&E asking for support in tarpitting him and then send him a warning."

-Jay

Forgive me for putting two and two together. Let me break it down for you. First, we're told that Curt was tarpitted for being offensive towards a 'user'. Nevermind the fact that a moderator is allowed to make personal digs towards a user who isnt here, mostly because I doubt much will be done about it. Yay nepotism.


In reply to:
Personally, I wouldn't feel bad that someone got his knickers in a twist and left the site because he was asked to display some civility and refrain from unacceptable behavior. Curt left because he was asked to not do something offensive. What does that tell you about the quality of him as a person?

Next, the plot thickens when we're told that we cant SEE the thread where the alleged offense happened to make an informed opinion for ourselves because it's been removed from view because it contains remarks that are potentially damaging to a business partnership that rc.com is pursuing.

In reply to:
We can't. The post was removed. Yep. The entire post is archived because there was content in it that did more than just violate the TOS (content which was not Curt's), it offended some potential business partners.

So, when I question the ethics of allowing advertisers to influence content in a content-driven medium, it's reinforced that the issue at hand is related to a business deal.

In reply to:
I also wish to cultivate good business relations with the mags and other climbing related companies so that you the users can continue to enjoy a "free" site.

Then, the bomb is dropped that Curt apparently got into it with Matt Samet at R&I.

In reply to:
I guess the other question is did Samet get tarpitted? I never did see the "over the top" post, as the whole thing was being edited wildly on the spot. It was clear from what I did see that Samet wasn't blameless in the whole thing. In fact, AFAIK, he started it, although I'm not sure that matters too much unless you are on the playground or in a gun fight.

I have to speculate that the thread was removed as much as to protect Samet himself as to protect the "business relationship". The dude acted like a freaking child, and anonymously as well ( at least at first ).

Now, I distinctly remember having a R&I forum in the past, which was eventually removed because R&I didnt appreciate popular opinion of the mag amongst usership. Based on that fact, I have assumed (that's right, assumed, and will continue to do so until facts explaining otherwise are laid on the table) that something unfavorable was said about R&I, so R&I got pissed, and Curt was subsequently hushed.

Moreover, it is my belief that if the user that Curt was offending had been a plain ol user instead of a valued member of R&I, our inferred potential business partner who was so offended that the thread was removed for fear of potential legal action, as inferred by Phil here:

In reply to:
if a post contained potentially libellous material that could take the site down by way of legal avenues then I certianly want to yank that sort of post or thread.

then the response to Curt probably wouldnt have been as strong. But, again, we're not allowed access to the thread so we cant make informed opinions about how 'over-the-top' Curt was or was not. We very simply want a decent explanation as to why a mainstay member of our community was disciplined instead of half-assed excuses that dont make any sense -


In reply to:
to end the speculation about what happened, why doesn't someone just post the details of the thread in question.. i guess it was removed and i can't find that archive forum that used to exist. maybe i'm overlooking something...


In reply to:
Amber's play-by-play seems the most likely at this point.

From the drama sidelines, the fact that the mod who tarpitted Curt hasn't named themselves only adds to the "conspiracy" hogs. You ( the staff ) bring this shit on yourselves half the time.

I'm also not the only one who thinks it's lame that we should be expected to sit quiet and look pretty instead of asking questions when a valued member of the community is hushed. I'm just the only one sitting at home drinking beer and surfing rc.com right now.

In reply to:
well i'd like to find out what the hell they were thinking and how they arrived at this decision. to tarpit someone who was in the process of organizing (and doing the bulk of the leg work) for the protection of queen creek, and communicating abundantly through this site is absolutely foolish... from a CLIMBER'S perspective, at least, which seems to be a perspective this website desperately lacks.... so in short it matters because i want to learn more about the situation.

And, last by not least, a stunning piece of advice by tradman

In reply to:
Serious commerical sites take their responsibilities seriously. That means if there is a disciplinary procedure, it is fair and transparent to everyone. Side-stepping the issue of exactly who tarpitted who and what the comments were that led to it breeds exactly the culture we have here

So, in short, if it wasnt about nepotism towards advertisers, then what really happened?

On a final note, my comments have apparently had quite the stinging affect on some of our upstanding staff members. I received a phone call today from a person who I trust and respect and have been more or less asked to refrain from further prying. I feel satisfied with the conversation and am dropping it, sorta, but IMHO, it would save management a shit load of time and effort if they would just be forthright instead of playing high schoolish secrecy games when it comes to managing the site.


Partner one900johnnyk


Feb 18, 2005, 6:38 PM
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^ Hey! I already outright asked him, and he flat-out denied it.

Anyway - if you want to ask Curt anything, he left his email in that other thread.

And....he stopped in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tar-Pitted/

Looks like we're getting quite a little group fo malcontents. Why don't you all stop in and say hi to him, and wish him well, tell him you wish he'd go to hell, or whatever else you'd like to say.


Maybe we can get him to fill us in on what happened, anyway. I would like to know which vendor (it has to be that stupid climbing wall....) thinks they can tell a resource to censor it's clientele.


Happy weekend!
my sense was that it had to do w/rock and ice, presumably from that rock and ice v. climbing thread that i did not click on for lack of interest....

ps he didn't just have a closer relative die or something, he just stopped posting here.... hahah


dirtineye


Feb 18, 2005, 6:41 PM
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Anyway - if you want to ask Curt anything, he left his email in that other thread.

And....he stopped in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tar-Pitted/

Looks like we're getting quite a little group fo malcontents. Why don't you all stop in and say hi to him, and wish him well, tell him you wish he'd go to hell, or whatever else you'd like to say.

Man, that place reeks of Ego and Eccentricity. Hey isn't that a Jane Austin novel? Have not heard from you all day Snippie, you pissed at me too? Everyone else here is, even good old BLownoutbuttplug don't like me anymore.

Well, at least you are getting a good party invite list. I'd love to see all the folks you have over at your little messages group together again for the first time.

Interesting group, now what you going to do with it?

I KNOW!!! MODERATE THE PISS OUT OF EM!!!!! ROTFLMAO!


murf


Feb 18, 2005, 6:42 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Then perhaps management should organize a better response and stop being so damned secretive about everything.

Maybe they should, but that doesn't justify what you did. This rumor about Curt's having been tarpitted because he offended an advertiser was invented by you in the following quoted post.

-Jay

It was obvious that Curt had his panties in a twist. Jesus, he went after one of his "site buddies" pretty hard in the same thread. Samet was no better, and you'd think he would know better. After all, he actually *is* a representitive of a climbing business entity.

Is Curt a whiny bitch for leaving? He knows, some care, but as always the drama meter goes to eleven. I'm almost convinced that some marketing guru is working this shit up in some hyper-creativity session.

"How can we work the populace up today?"

I mean , Tim already replied with his full reply which ( as per script ) applies technology to the conspiracy ( in S&Q ). epic_ed has tried to deflect the spew. Dingus argues the purity of ones own words. You flip flop a bit... Am I the only one who thinks that's amusing? After all, I'd bet going to New Jack that you for one know the whole story.

I know you'll probably come after me a bit for that last bit with your usual verve....But come on, the drama is completely caused once again by the rc.com "closed door" discussion. The tarpitting person should take his knocks, and maybe the rule should be "he who tarpits is known".

Murf

( Yes I'm still at work, and I'm pissed. )


Partner happiegrrrl


Feb 18, 2005, 6:59 PM
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Man, that place reeks of Ego and Eccentricity. Hey isn't that a Jane Austin novel? Have not heard from you all day Snippie, you pissed at me too? Everyone else here is, even good old BLownoutbuttplug don't like me anymore.

No...I had to work.....

In reply to:
Well, at least you are getting a good party invite list. I'd love to see all the folks you have over at your little messages group together again for the first time.

True that. Though I'd like to see some of the lurkers whip out something textual.

In reply to:
Interesting group, now what you going to do with it?

I KNOW!!! MODERATE THE PISS OUT OF EM!!!!! ROTFLMAO!

I am like the amber waves of grain, or the fruited plain or whatever....things in my life just seem to develop of their own accord. I don't really think much about it, except for basic plans.

But as for moderation; that is actually one thing I DID think about. While I understand where some sites feel the need to moderate (after all, there are children hitting this place, which would be MY primary concern, though it doesn't seem to be much of one here), I think it would be a very interesting exeperiment to see what would evolve out of zero moderation. I have a lot of experience in issues of codependace, so I know there are tools I can employ to keep my mitts off. Mainly...to understand the thing isn't about me, or my ego. I, as the manager of that site, should be invisible.

And....if it does get to the point where maybe it should get a little different face, then it should be set up as a non-profit entity, instead of looking to be a commercial enterprise.


murf


Feb 18, 2005, 7:01 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
if a post contained potentially libellous material that could take the site down by way of legal avenues then I certianly want to yank that sort of post or thread.

then the response to Curt probably wouldnt have been as strong. But, again, we're not allowed access to the thread so we cant make informed opinions about how 'over-the-top' Curt was or was not. We very simply want a decent explanation as to why a mainstay member of our community was disciplined instead of half-assed excuses that dont make any sense -

The only libellous material I recallis when Samet wrote about how they could have sued a rc.com poster, but didn't. The Oldtimer's must be setting in, because the specifics elude me.

Murf

( work over, beer now !


reno


Feb 18, 2005, 7:10 PM
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....

Worthless drivel left out for brevity's sake.

Aw, heck, gang. OK, I'll come clean.

It's all one big vast right-wing conspiracy, and Amber stumbled to the real truth.

Curt is actually one of the alien life forms that the Government found in Area 51 back in the 60's, and we had to let him go because the Mother Ship called and said that his Emmigration Visa expired. We thought it'd be kinda suspicious if he just left without a word, so we invented a dramatic event sure to raise the hackles on everyone.

I probably shouldn't tell y'all this, but if you promise to keep it 'tween us, I'll share some more inside scoop.... Philbox is actually a Cro-Magnon we found frozen in the ice one day while climbing a wicked WI 14 and 3/4 route in the Peruvian Andes. Using the heat from an MSR Wisperlite International (along with a hefty dose of warm urine,) we thawed the ice, took Phil to the local hospital, and brought him back to life. He's adapting well to the 21st Century, but keeps asking "Where are all the Wooly Mammoths?"

Y'all don't want to know the real truth about Bumblie. It's too scary, even for me.

It's all a conspiracy. Yep. That's it.

:roll:


Partner amber


Feb 18, 2005, 7:12 PM
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I think it would be a very interesting exeperiment to see what would evolve out of zero moderation

check out supertaco or wreckdotclimbing. actually, wreckdotclimbing would probably be best.


Partner happiegrrrl


Feb 18, 2005, 7:18 PM
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yes...they seem to do quite well at maintaining a high quality level....now don't they.....


wa_hoo


Feb 18, 2005, 7:39 PM
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Maybe I haven't been here long enough, or maybe I've been working too long, but there's tons of free reign in here - when it's about stuff in here. But when it's a public site, the rules are different when you say stuff about the world out there - whoever it is.

Just like you can't publish an ad slamming some company in the newspaper, it makes sense you can't do that here. It's different when it's a business.

Seems like the moderation is reasonable, a lot is ignored, and it's a good side that most of us enjoy or we wouldn't be here.

Can we just get back to sharing fun stories and stuff about climbing? :?


reno


Feb 18, 2005, 7:43 PM
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My beef isnt about Curt's decision to leave so much as it's about rc.com tarpitting a user because an advertiser got pissed about what the user had to say about the advertiser's product.

Once again, Amber, you show your total lack of understanding of the situation.

What Curt had to say about a product wasn't the issue. On this, I give you my word. (While my word may not amount to a hill of beans to you, I've never broken it before... not in 32 years.)

You really do not know the facts and are just speculating. And looking rather foolish doing it, too.


camhead


Feb 18, 2005, 8:47 PM
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hey reno, you chastize amber for her "lack of understanding," but do nothing to counter her accusations.

here's a simple idea... the management could just give us the FULL details of this matter and let us judge it for ourselves.

if the tarpit was justified, then surely we should be able to see all posts causing it, and I'm sure curt would not mind. the beauty of this medium is that all posts are preserved for future judging and evidence. unless they are locked.


the locking of topics and posts only increases distrust between users and the site. duh.


fracture


Feb 18, 2005, 9:06 PM
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In reply to:
Then, the bomb is dropped that Curt apparently got into it with
Matt Samet at R&I.
In reply to:
...Samet wrote about how they could have sued a rc.com poster...
In reply to:
presumably from that rock and ice v. climbing thread that
i did not click on for lack of interest....
In reply to:
The dude acted like a freaking child, and anonymously as well ( at least at first )

Hahahaha.

I saw the beginning of that thread (but apparently missed some fun before it got censored).

So colqueerio is Samet? He made an account with a username that obviously is slamming a well-known RC poster, and then y'all tarpitted someone else for slamming on him?

Que Dingus: "All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others."

Murf's gotta be dead on about the marketing gurus dreaming this stuff up. Screw partnership with Rock&Ice; you guys should partner up with the Soap channel. :lol: :lol:


fracture


Feb 18, 2005, 9:11 PM
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here's a simple idea... the management could just give us the FULL details of this matter and let us judge it for ourselves.

Exactly.

Why was the whole thread censored, if this is really just about Curt telling someone to fuck off (which he's obviously done tons of times before---just not to a potential business partner)?


Partner amber


Feb 18, 2005, 10:53 PM
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In reply to:
passive-aggressive drivel left out for brevity

You know, Reno, I really like you as a person - but your lame personal attacks are making you look like a big ol' tool.

I received PMs and phone calls from moderators who were concerned regarding the fact that some of the responses from staff are making things seem worse than the really are, and as I mentioned in the post that you neglected to quote and wrote off as drivel, I am quite content with the responses that I received from some of the less defensive, less confrontational members of staff. Further, I daresay that I know and understand far more about what's going on than you realize. However, that does not change the fact that there are some gaping holes in the "logic" (*cough* - excuses) provided to the community at large.

Further, although I may look like a fool to those who are privy to the specially sanctioned M&E forum, the questions that I've raised seem pretty damn valid to those who arent part of the super duper ultra cool club of RC.com Site Management. But, you dont have to take my word for it, check out the responses of the people who I quoted or even just the few posts above mine.

Regardless of my personal understanding of "The Curt Issue"(TM) , I think it's incredibly funny that site management considers itself above reproach and expects its members (a bunch of onry climbers, nonetheless) to be content with sitting quiet and looking pretty whenever a well-known member of OUR community is disciplined and subsquently leaves.

Perhaps, rather than continuing to make back-handed comments about members who question your a-thor-a-tay, you could sit quiet and look pretty yourself, OR find someone in all of M&E who can (and will) respond accurately and intelligently to the matter at hand.

In other words, I have agreed to leave it alone, and have stated an intent to do so out of respect for the requestors, but if you insist on continuing to quote my posts so that we can wrestle this thing out in the dirty mud of rc.com politics, well, I'll go put on my bikini, babe.


thomasribiere


Feb 19, 2005, 1:02 AM
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amber wrote
In reply to:
well, I'll go put on my bikini, babe

oh, do it please!


Partner tgreene


Feb 19, 2005, 7:55 AM
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{tiptoes out towards the center of the pond, where the ICE is really thin}

*IF* this is in fact in regards to a situation involving R&I, then I feel that it's important to revisit the extremely negative and in poor taste article that R&I wrote about climbing in southern Illinois, and the drama that subsequently followed w/ Eric Ulner and the R&I staff.

This thread says it all... :wink:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...&topic_view=&start=0


{tries quickly to crawl back to shore, as the ice begins giving way}


dingus


Feb 19, 2005, 8:26 AM
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Apostate mods are funny. Maybe start a Fundamentalist Rock Climbing Dot Calm there Amber. I bet your ideal world would be more closed than this one, lol.

I wonder, do mods ever get excommunicated?

And who among us has the ear of god?

All you folks who think wreck.climbing or supertaco is is better/worse/whatever... whyn't you try swimming with the sharks for a few months, see how you feel then?

Cheers
DMT


blowboarder


Feb 19, 2005, 9:01 AM
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All you folks who think wreck.climbing or supertaco is is better/worse/whatever... whyn't you try swimming with the sharks for a few months, see how you feel then?

Cheers
DMT

Yep. different ballgame over there. Kid gloves stay in the car. If I remember correctly, the subject matter at hand (Curt) got quite the welcome wagon when he first showed up.

Paraphrasing here:

Klaus "STFU Noob and go back to your gay site"

Hard to talk shit to the engineer of so many horrendous death routes that are just now seeing proud seconds. Plus he's fucking troll-proof.

I'm going to get worked over like a 9 year old at Neverland by the time February rolls around again. :lol:


Partner tgreene


Feb 19, 2005, 9:18 AM
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I'm going to get worked over like a 9 year old at Neverland by the time February rolls around again. :lol:
Wanna touch my monkey..? 8^)


blowboarder


Feb 19, 2005, 9:36 AM
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Wanna touch my monkey..? 8^)

Sure, anytime...





With a blow torch. :lol:


Partner one900johnnyk


Feb 19, 2005, 9:58 AM
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i just wanna know what the fuck happened. the fact is this site does jack shit to preserve or gain access to crags has started to piss me off, given the resources and scope... the most that's done is posting a link to the queen creek situation on the front page. even if you don't think qc has a snowballs chance, you've got to admit that it'd be even more bleak without curt's efforts. i'm sorry i've ever given money to this place, i feel like a fool.

and it's not like it's a witch hunt for the person who tarpitted him. i just find it odd, that someone who is presumably operating under the code of conduct set in place by the site wouldn't own up to it publicly..

all you people fuckin suck.


madriver


Feb 19, 2005, 10:19 AM
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...uhhh...

...help me here...is this the internet....or did I stumble into some place that matters?


.....I'm going to start taking myself more seriously now...excuse me.


crimpergirl


Feb 19, 2005, 10:20 AM
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You bet I fucking suck.

:twisted:


Partner tgreene


Feb 19, 2005, 11:05 AM
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You bet I f---ing suck. :twisted:
Yes, but it's the quality of your skillZ that matters the most! :P


Partner amber


Feb 19, 2005, 11:39 AM
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Apostate mods are funny.

Why limit yourself to apostate mods? I think we all provide amusing reflections in the proverbial circus mirror.

In reply to:
All you folks who think wreck.climbing or supertaco is is better/worse/whatever... whyn't you try swimming with the sharks for a few months, see how you feel then?

Personally, I dont think they're better or worse, just different. She posted a question of what it would be like to have unmoderated sites, and I responded with a couple of examples. I lurk on both and think they do a good job of self-moderating. I just dont bother posting because I'm trying to quit this nasty internet habit that I've got going.


Partner amber


Feb 19, 2005, 11:54 AM
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I wonder, do mods ever get excommunicated?

I've known a couple who did.


madriver


Feb 19, 2005, 11:58 AM
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...how about exorcised?


edge


Feb 19, 2005, 12:12 PM
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...how about exorcised?

No I never exorcise.

Which explains the spare tire around my midsection.


madriver


Feb 19, 2005, 12:18 PM
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edge wrote:
In reply to:
No I never exorcise.

Which explains the spare tire around my midsection.

...thats what I mean...you need to take yourself more seriously....spelling nazis are buzz killers...now take your crap and go home...leave this site to the serious...


jt512


Feb 19, 2005, 1:09 PM
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In reply to:
I think it would be a very interesting exeperiment to see what would evolve out of zero moderation

check out supertaco or wreckdotclimbing. actually, wreckdotclimbing would probably be best.

http://joshuatreeclimb.com/forums/joshuatreeclimb/

Check it out. It speaks for itself.

-Jay


jt512


Feb 19, 2005, 1:23 PM
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In reply to:
This rumor about Curt's having been tarpitted because he offended an advertiser was invented by you in the following quoted post.

In reply to:
In reply to:
What they were thinking was *probably* something like this:

"Oh, wow.... Curt's comments to this other user are way out of line, and they violate the TOS. Curt has been warned before about this sort of thing, yet he's still doing it. I'll consult with the other mods, ask them for input, and then decide on an appropriate action. In the meantime, I'll ask Curt to refrain from making such offensive and inappropriate posts."

Or something like that.

Actually, from reading between the lines, it was probably something closer to, "Oh s---. Curt has pissed off (insert advertiser name). Christ, what am I going to do. We need to shut him up - quick! Wait. I'll post in M&E asking for support in tarpitting him and then send him a warning."

-Jay

Forgive me for putting two and two together. Let me break it down for you. First, we're told that Curt was tarpitted for being offensive towards a 'user'. Nevermind the fact that a moderator is allowed to make personal digs towards a user who isnt here, mostly because I doubt much will be done about it. Yay nepotism.

[blah, blah, blah]

Amber, your convoluted theory violates Occam's Razor grossly. The simplest, and in this case correct, model that explains the facts is this:

1. Curt was tarpitted for making one or more very offensive attacks against Matt personally.

2. The thread was removed, apparently, because it was potentially damaging to a business relationship.

If you wish to continue to imagine that Curt was tarpitted because of comments about R + I that is your prerogative; however, quite frankly, you are looking a bit foolish for it.

-Jay


Partner macherry


Feb 19, 2005, 1:31 PM
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...uhhh...

...help me here...is this the internet....or did I stumble into some place that matters?


.....I'm going to start taking myself more seriously now...excuse me.

we have a weiner!!!!!.........what could be wurst!!!!!


madriver


Feb 19, 2005, 1:34 PM
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...this one time when I was little...I got mad during a backyard baseball game so I took my bat and ball and went inside. My mom was upset that my brother was mean to me...but none of the other kids cared....


jt512


Feb 19, 2005, 1:58 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Then perhaps management should organize a better response and stop being so damned secretive about everything.

Maybe they should, but that doesn't justify what you did. This rumor about Curt's having been tarpitted because he offended an advertiser was invented by you in the following quoted post.

-Jay

Samet was no better, and you'd think he would know better. After all, he actually *is* a representitive of a climbing business entity.

Indeed I posted as much in that thread.

In reply to:
You flip flop a bit... Am I the only one who thinks that's amusing?

I haven't flip-flopped at all. Management has always followed the policy of not explaining specifically why action has been taken against a user. Their response has always been generic: violations of the ToS. I'm not sure what the history of that policy has been, but I think it dates back to one or more cases of eggregious and possibly criminal violations of the ToS, which the site couldn't really spell out publicly. Since then, if I am not mistaken, it has always been a policy not to give the specifics when actions are taken against users. That's probably not a bad policy in general, since usually, either the user's actions leading to the tarpit were publicly visible or, more rarely, they involved allegations too serious to publicly state. However, this case falls into neither category: neither are the offending posts visible, nor was the offense extreme. And so the conspiracy theorists have a field day. So, in unusual cases such as this, perhaps management should make a clear, concise, official statement explaining why the action was taken.

In reply to:
After all, I'd bet going to New Jack that you for one know the whole story.

What I know is that at least one moderator was very concerned about certain specific, offensive statements, which were pointed out to me, which Curt made about Matt; and it was later stated to me that it was those "below-the-belt" statements that were why Curt was tarpitted. I wasn't following the thread carefully and did not see any statements by anyone that would be particularly damaging to any potential business dealings between this website and R + I, nor do I have any knowledge about said business relationship, potential or existing. Thus, I do not know the whole story. I'll be at New Jack on Saturday at 9:30 a.m. You can belay me on The Action.

In reply to:
The tarpitting person should take his knocks, and maybe the rule should be "he who tarpits is known".

The moderator who actually "throws the switch" isn't the issue. You can assume that if someone gets tarpitted that there is a concensus about it among the Mods, and in particular, that Phil concurs. If you want someone to point a finger at, it should be him, since he is in charge of the mods.

-Jay


Partner amber


Feb 19, 2005, 2:23 PM
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Amber, your convoluted theory violates Occam's Razor grossly. The simplest, and in this case correct, model that explains the facts is this:

1. Curt was tarpitted for making one or more very offensive attacks against Matt personally.

2. The thread was removed, apparently, because it was potentially damaging to a business relationship.

If you wish to continue to imagine that Curt was tarpitted because of comments about R + I that is your prerogative; however, quite frankly, you are looking a bit foolish for it.

-Jay

Hi Jay,

Thanks so much for your inquiry. Unfortunately, I am a tool who is unafraid to question theories set before me, and I am willing to continue pushing the envelope and asking questions until things make sense. Further, I'm not the only one who felt that things were suspicious.

To save some space, I'll just refer you to my last response to Reno. As I mentioned there, I received responses from moderators who were willing to admit that the answers from perhaps well-meaning individuals made things seem suspicious. (Though, I still think that if the argument had been with someone of lesser caliber than Matt Samet, himself, the situation would have turned out differently .. but I digress.)

To make things seem less dramatic in the future, perhaps it would be wise for management to get off its information high-horse and recruit someone who can respond with accurate, articulate information that doesnt make things seem quite so suspicious. It would also help if staff were held to some sort of standard regarding their treatment of users. You see, it's really difficult to believe that rc.com really gives a damn about 'protecting' a user who's been banned or tarpitted when other members of staff are making slams against users on a near constant basis.

Finally, I stand by my belief that it is incredibly lame for rc.com to move/delete threads, pull forums, and/or discipline users in order to save face with an advertiser. Though, if this really wasnt about nepotism towards an advertiser, then why was the CCH thread allowed to propagate when the R&I thread was crushed? Then again, I think the CCH threads were an excellent example of letting manufacturers and an exceptional product combat bogus complaints without site management's beloved intervention.

Thanks again for your time.

Best regards,
amber

PS. If the above post was simply made in hopes that I will bikini mud wrestle your ass to the ground, then bring it. Though, I insist that Curt be there with his scotch and Hill be there will the camera.


Partner amber


Feb 19, 2005, 2:35 PM
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perhaps management should make a clear, concise, official statement explaining why the action was taken

Okay, so it's taken 10 pages of BS to get our point through. I was lucky enough to get information a couple of pages back and conceded my point (which seems to have been overlooked) - but future dramas could likely be squelched if questions could simply be answered in the way that you've described above: clear and concise. No BS about business dealings at stake or high school libraries to protect. Just someone with access to all of the privy information who can field questions accurately and articulately without making excuses that end up making the entire situation seem substantially more incestuous than it actually is.


jt512


Feb 19, 2005, 3:28 PM
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PS. If the above post was simply made in hopes that I will bikini mud wrestle your ass to the ground, then bring it.

So far I've won a free day of belaying from Murf and a naked mud wrestling session with Amber. I should participate more regularly in these conspiracy threads.

-Jay


crimpergirl


Feb 19, 2005, 4:03 PM
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Ahhhhhh.

Climax at last!

Thank God - the sexual tension was getting to be waaaaay to much for me to handle.


reno


Feb 19, 2005, 4:32 PM
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In reply to:
- but future dramas could likely be squelched if questions could simply be answered in the way that you've described above: clear and concise. No BS about business dealings at stake or high school libraries to protect. Just someone with access to all of the privy information who can field questions accurately and articulately without making excuses that end up making the entire situation seem substantially more incestuous than it actually is.

I'd like to see such a set-up as well, but as always, there are hurdles... if you have solutions for these, let's hear 'em:

1. Who?

2. Where do you draw the line between posting the details for "minor" offenses and "major offenses"? If a user is Tarpitted for a post that violates the law (i.e. a user solicits sex from a minor,) should that get aired? What about a user who posts porn? What if it's child porn? What if it's bestiality? Should the staff state "Climber-So-and-So was TP'd for posting pics of minors involved in sexual acts?" What is the liability for the website? What would we do if we get a subpoena to testify? Would every user who saw the pic before it was removed come forth and testify? Is there legal precedent for this?

3. Who makes the decision to air/not air? Should it be committee? If so, should the votes be recorded and released to the public? Should we just say "By a vote of 5-2, the decision has been made to air the cause of Climber-so-and-so's tarpit?" First, who's on the committee? Who selects the committee members? One person? The users as a whole? If it's everyone, what rules are used? Simple majority (as in the case of purly domestic matters)? 51%? Two-thirds (in the event of international affairs?)

4. Who protects the tarpit announcer (lack of a better term) if a lible suit is brought to bear? Who pays for the lawyer? Who selects the lawyer?

5. I could go on, but I've been moving my girlfriend's stuff to her new house all day, and my arms are so sore, I can barely hold my Sierra Nevada, let alone type. But you get the point.

Personally, I'd like to see TPs made public. But as it is now, the policy is to keep such matters private. I think that's OK, too.... "Praise in public, punish in private" is my preferred phrase when passing out punitive penalties or positive platitudes. (Try saying THAT 3 times fast.)

It is quite simple: Any user, no matter who, is held to the TOS. Violate 'em, run the risk of paying the price. What price? Depends on lots of things, and that's why the staff gets paid nothing to make tough decisions.

(And to think, I volunteered for this abuse.)


hello_heino


Feb 19, 2005, 4:51 PM
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addressing #3.

Everything should be aired. There is no decision making process involved. It is called: accountability.


jt512


Feb 19, 2005, 4:59 PM
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addressing #3.

Everything should be aired. There is no decision making process involved. It is called: accountability.

Except that moderators aren't accountable to users. This is a privately owned business that is open to the public for free. So, it is not an accountability issue: management does not owe a duty to explain their actions to people who use the site. On the other hand, being a business that needs users to make money from advertisers, management may have practical reasons for explaining its actions publicly from time to time.

-Jay


hello_heino


Feb 19, 2005, 5:02 PM
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"It is quite simple: Any user, no matter who, is held to the TOS. Violate 'em, run the risk of paying the price. What price? Depends on lots of things, and that's why the staff gets paid nothing to make tough decisions."



Volunteerism is a poor excuse for blindness.


maculated


Feb 19, 2005, 6:40 PM
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1. Who?

That's a question for the management of RC.com to answer. Not users. Depends on the kind of person you want and what you want them to say.

In reply to:
2. Where do you draw the line between posting the details for "minor" offenses and "major offenses"? If a user is Tarpitted for a post that violates the law (i.e. a user solicits sex from a minor,) should that get aired? What about a user who posts porn? What if it's child porn? What if it's bestiality? Should the staff state "Climber-So-and-So was TP'd for posting pics of minors involved in sexual acts?" What is the liability for the website? What would we do if we get a subpoena to testify? Would every user who saw the pic before it was removed come forth and testify? Is there legal precedent for this?

I don't think anyone is asking for the Scarlet Letter here. What I always thought should be appropriate was explicitness of what constitutes what in terms of tarpitting/banning. If you make a concrete process, then it leaves the management accountable and the users accountable.

In reply to:
3. Who makes the decision to air/not air? Should it be committee? If so, should the votes be recorded and released to the public? Should we just say "By a vote of 5-2, the decision has been made to air the cause of Climber-so-and-so's tarpit?" First, who's on the committee? Who selects the committee members? One person? The users as a whole? If it's everyone, what rules are used? Simple majority (as in the case of purly domestic matters)? 51%? Two-thirds (in the event of international affairs?)

Again, if a detailed accountability thing occurred, it wouldn't matter. No airing would be required.


reno


Feb 19, 2005, 10:39 PM
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I don't think anyone is asking for the Scarlet Letter here. What I always thought should be appropriate was explicitness of what constitutes what in terms of tarpitting/banning. If you make a concrete process, then it leaves the management accountable and the users accountable.

Ya just simply can not write down all the things someone could do that would/could violate the TOS, say "These will get you a TP," and think it's gonna solve all problems. The moment you do, people will start finding ways to skirt the "rules." Then, when you try to whack 'em on the nose for it, they'll say "But it ain't expressly prohibited by the TOS, so I'm free and clear."

Rather, what you do is set forth a foundation of principles, ask people to try to adhere to those principles, and use your best judgement on when those principles have been violated to an egregious enough degree to warrant tarpit.

Like the cops in a big city... they selectively enforce the law, based on the seriousness of the crime. What is serious to one is minor to another (e.g., A cop in ATL catches you with a half-burned joint. He makes you crush it, and dump it in the storm drain. But if he catches you with a pound of Colombian Gold weed, you've got a jail waiting. One is minor, one is serious. Difference of degrees.)

I get your point, Mac, but I don't think it's logistically feasable.


maculated


Feb 19, 2005, 11:03 PM
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I dunno, Reno. I was admin/mod for a pretty good amount of time, I seriously think it could be done effectively.


Partner tgreene


Feb 20, 2005, 6:14 AM
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Except that moderators aren't accountable to users. This is a privately owned business that is open to the public for free. So, it is not an accountability issue: management does not owe a duty to explain their actions to people who use the site. On the other hand, being a business that needs users to make money from advertisers, management may have practical reasons for explaining its actions publicly from time to time.

-Jay
Herein lies the crux of it all, because unlike many of the Mods & Admins, some of us actually are paying members! As a paying member, the management does have a higher (albeit limted) accountability requirement, in order to appease a specific portion of the membership base that does financially contribute to the operation of RC. If the overall attitude is "screw the members, we don't have to answer to you ever", then you'll ultimately be left with a flailing site... Sad as it is, this is precisely what has caused the vast majority of splits and closures of online communities of just about every nature.

When the powers to be begin to turn towards greed, and the greed begins to control the membership, the end is near!


Partner one900johnnyk


Feb 20, 2005, 7:50 AM
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Herein lies the crux of it all, because unlike many of the Mods & Admins, some of us actually are paying members! As a paying member, the management does have a higher (albeit limted) accountability requirement, in order to appease a specific portion of the membership base that does financially contribute to the operation of RC. If the overall attitude is "screw the members, we don't have to answer to you ever", then you'll ultimately be left with a flailing site... Sad as it is, this is precisely what has caused the vast majority of splits and closures of online communities of just about every nature.
unlike you, i think they'll be just fine, but they will be doing fine without any of my money going forward....


Partner happiegrrrl


Feb 20, 2005, 8:03 AM
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So.....then I am thinking....when Curt used to get inflammatory with Joe Blow, it was like he was puffing on a roach. But this time, it was like he was trying to sell dope to an undercover cop on the Atlanta vice squad....?

(This is a rhetorical question - no need to be adressed.)


Partner tgreene


Feb 20, 2005, 8:08 AM
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Correct!

I'm also reminded of when DJMeat was viciously attacking and slandering another member, yet only ever received kind and gentle warnings because the powers to be said he "never really violated the beloved TOS"... Which he absolutely did! :boring:


iltripp


Feb 20, 2005, 8:51 AM
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Correct!

I'm also reminded of when DJMeat was viciously attacking and slandering another member, yet only ever received kind and gentle warnings because the powers to be said he "never really violated the beloved TOS"... Which he absolutely did! :boring:

Wouldn't that also make you deserving of a tarpit concerning your treatment of Mr. Meat?


Partner amber


Feb 20, 2005, 9:04 AM
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I dunno, Reno. I was admin/mod for a pretty good amount of time, I seriously think it could be done effectively.

To save myself some typing, I'm going to say that I agree with the posts that maculated made on the previous page.

While I will admit that not all of the staff are power-hungry control freaks, it seems like a lot of the people who ARENT information control freaks are stepping down because they're tired of the turmoil caused by said control freaks.

There are also plenty of people around here who can see through the thinly-veiled excuses that basically boil down to the fact that some of the people on staff deeply cherish the fact that they get to be in on a secret that greater majority does not know.

Finally, there are a lot of really intelligent people around here who are probably used to dealing with situations where multiple interests are at stake and must be navigated. Seriously, providing concise, yet honest and articulate answers to pointed questions really isnt THAT complicated of a task.

The "complications" arise because we have people in positions of feigned authority who are resistant to change and enjoy the current policies of secrecy and information whoring. Hell, no one even knows WHY the secrecy policy exists, they just accept it and delight in feeling like they're privy to special information.

As for making suggestions of specific people, I've made my suggestions. However, since secrecy policies reign supreme around here, I will not tell you to whom I made my suggestions nor will I admit who was recommended.

PS. Jay, I said bikini wrestling, not nekkid wrestling.


Partner tgreene


Feb 20, 2005, 9:16 AM
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In reply to:
Correct!

I'm also reminded of when DJMeat was viciously attacking and slandering another member, yet only ever received kind and gentle warnings because the powers to be said he "never really violated the beloved TOS"... Which he absolutely did! :boring:

Wouldn't that also make you deserving of a tarpit concerning your treatment of Mr. Meat?
Funny that you would mention that, because I was threatenened within an inch of my life by several of the admins, BEFORE they had the actual facts pertaining to said situation. Even after that, it seemed that Todd had no problem escalating situations with numerous members, they crying foul each and every time he had his ass handed to him by the friends of those he so viciously attacked. :shock:

Next time, get ALL the facts before you post as if you knew them! :?


iltripp


Feb 20, 2005, 11:12 AM
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Correct!

I'm also reminded of when DJMeat was viciously attacking and slandering another member, yet only ever received kind and gentle warnings because the powers to be said he "never really violated the beloved TOS"... Which he absolutely did! :boring:

Wouldn't that also make you deserving of a tarpit concerning your treatment of Mr. Meat?
Funny that you would mention that, because I was threatenened within an inch of my life by several of the admins, BEFORE they had the actual facts pertaining to said situation. Even after that, it seemed that Todd had no problem escalating situations with numerous members, they crying foul each and every time he had his ass handed to him by the friends of those he so viciously attacked. :shock:

Next time, get ALL the facts before you post as if you knew them! :?

I never posted as if I knew "ALL the facts". I'm only calling it how i saw it. I never said DJmeat didn't deserve it, only that you and many others were also culpable and would have been equally deserving of a tarpit if the "personal attack" rules were rigorously enforced.

As you said yourself, "he had his ass handed to him by the friends of those he so viciously attacked". While DJmeat may have been the proverbial whiny, obnoxious brat, you played the part of the schoolyard bully rather well.


Partner tgreene


Feb 20, 2005, 11:15 AM
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(blah, blah, blah)...you played the part of the schoolyard bully rather well.
Thank God somebody finally recognizes my talents! :mrgreen:


apolobamba


Feb 20, 2005, 1:56 PM
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---


Partner tgreene


Feb 20, 2005, 1:58 PM
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Goodbye to all of you that actually climb and all of you that I haved climbed with.
Talk like that will earn you a Tar Pit!


jt512


Feb 20, 2005, 5:06 PM
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PS. Jay, I said bikini wrestling, not nekkid wrestling.

So you claim. It might just come to pass that your post mysteriously disappears, and the only remaining evidence will by my post, which clearly states "naked" wrestling.

Besides, there's no way I'm wearing a bikini.

-Jay


jt512


Feb 20, 2005, 5:09 PM
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PS. Jay, I said bikini wrestling, not nekkid wrestling.

So you claim. It might just come to pass that your post mysteriously disappears, and the only remaining evidence will by my post, which clearly states "naked" wrestling.

Besides, there's no way I'm wearing a bikini.

-Jay

honesty in quoting, eh?

I haven't quoted anybody.

-Jay


Partner amber


Feb 20, 2005, 5:09 PM
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PS. Jay, I said bikini wrestling, not nekkid wrestling.

So you claim. It might just come to pass that your post mysteriously disappears, and the only remaining evidence will by my post, which clearly states "naked" wrestling.

Besides, there's no way I'm wearing a bikini.

-Jay

honesty in quoting, eh?


Partner philbox
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Feb 20, 2005, 5:53 PM
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Thank goodnes for Jays voice of reason. You rool Jay.

Psssst, send me the pics of the nekkid jello wrestling eh.


Partner amber


Feb 20, 2005, 5:56 PM
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whoa. the posts are out of order again.

well .. that, or jay saw my response coming from a mile away.


murf


Feb 21, 2005, 8:08 AM
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After all, I'd bet going to New Jack that you for one know the whole story.

I'll be at New Jack on Saturday at 9:30 a.m. You can belay me on The Action.
I was trying to infer that you and Curt are friends in reality land. From that I would have thought that you would have gotten his story. Regardless of all that, I don't know how to use a gri-gri and I usually try to pull slack in on a fall, not jump or hop or whatever. Still want the belay?

In reply to:
In reply to:
The tarpitting person should take his knocks, and maybe the rule should be "he who tarpits is known".
The moderator who actually "throws the switch" isn't the issue. You can assume that if someone gets tarpitted that there is a concensus about it among the Mods, and in particular, that Phil concurs. If you want someone to point a finger at, it should be him, since he is in charge of the mods.

Without refering to the specific post, a moderater pointed out a different version of this. A mod gets an idea of tarpitting someone and then runs it around a mod only forum. Regardless of the feedback, that mod can go ahead and tarpit the individual. The quote specifically mentioned that "consensus" is not needed.

Its too bad Curt deleted his piccy's, I enjoyed them. I'm always amused when the "management" PM's folks like amber to "let the issue lie". It gives it that cool "wrapped in secrecy" look thats so in.

Murf


hugepedro


Feb 21, 2005, 9:49 AM
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The few times I have posted in drama threads such as this, I have always supported the mods and admins. I've never had an issue with them. But this is just comical.

Folks, you run a web site. You are in the public relations business. Do you even have a PR or communications professional on the team? Cause you certainly operate as though you have absolutely no clue how to do PR. Where's the coordinated, well thought out communication of what was done and why, explained clearly within the context of the site rules? (Hint: if you can't explain it clearly within the context of the site rules, you might want to consider that you have another agenda at play, not saying that is the case with this incident, just pointing out that you have a simple analysis technique at your disposal for examining your own motivations.)

In this thread we have multiple site representatives giving ad hoc responses, trying to explain a situation for which they seem to not even have all the facts, and even lobbing personal attacks and insults in the process. Incompetent, is about the nicest word I could use to describe the performance here.

You guys really need someone with the appropriate skills/knowledge in communications, and you need a defined process for communications in disciplinary situations, one that can be invoked rapidly and applied consistently. There you go, free consultation. My clients spend hundreds of dollars an hour for advice like that.


I'm sorry to see Curt go. He was the only conservative on this site who could engage in intelligent political debate using sound logic and fact-based reasoning, all the while maintaining intellectual honesty. I enjoyed our head-butting.

I think you are hiding behind your statements that "Curt decided to leave", as though you weren't the party on the other side of a dispute. Sure he decided to leave, but I'm starting to see the trend that others have pointed out - this site is descending into lameness. I don't spend much time here anymore, but for the occasional drive-by posting. This place just isn't interesting enough to draw my attention like it used to. Thank goodness blowboarder showed up to stir things up (and promptly get tar-pitted :lol: ).

But seriously, back to that free advice I gave you. You guys should really get your act together. I think you'll find that you'll waste a lot less time and energy if you can execute to a well-defined communications process, and your communications process and disciplinary process should be integrated. (Man, I gotta stop giving this stuff away for free.)


dingus


Feb 21, 2005, 10:08 AM
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I understand the desire for consistency, but really, its impossible, especially in the realm of a volunteer committee.

I have come to the opinion that what moderation/censorship this sort of site requires is best dispensed by a benevolent dictator. That person, wielding the authority of the King, imposes a kind justice for the good of the realm.

Now the King may be as Mad as a Hatter, it matters not! The King should employ Whack-A-Mole moderation and whack without warning, any thread that displeases her sense of wah!

No explanations unless the King is amused by offering one. No consistency, since when do Kings delude themselves with that tripe? They know that consistency doesn't even exist, or they would not be King! (I know, lousy grammer, so sue me)

King is negotiating with the supreme leader of a neighboring Kingdom and one of his subjects gets out of line? WHACK! No explanation, no nothing, just WHACK! Throw in the dungeon, slick as you please.

The conspiracy theories get too deep? Whack! No explanation, no nothing.

King's friend gets out of line? Too bad, that's what being the King's friend entails; latitude. You should be around the King when she gets mad! Then you'd know that being friend to the King isn't all its whacked up to be.

King goes on Vacay? No moderation for you!

See, it should be arbitrary and capricious, a child of whim, an instrument of chaos.

The subjects should never know from where the hammer will be swung or which mole is about to get whacked. We should just know... it could be us next.

But its gotta be a Solomon sort, this benevolent dictator...

Who among us could rise to the Golden Rule Rock Climbing Dot Calm Throne???

And who would seek to usurp it?

Tarpit the TOS. Reinstitute the King!

Then we conspiracy folks would have something to do!

The King is dead. Long live the King.

DMT


blowboarder


Feb 21, 2005, 10:18 AM
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You guys really need someone with the appropriate skills/knowledge in communications, and you need a defined process for communications in disciplinary situations, one that can be invoked rapidly and applied consistently.

And I'm here for you. Simply ask and I'll respond to the call of duty. :lol:

I'n honor of GrandePeter laying out some free advice, I'll throw down a free outline of how it will go.

Religious debates? Tarpit!
Political debates? Tarpit!
Dirtineye? Tarpit!
Grammar Nazi's? Tarpit!
Not posting pic's of hot chicks at least once a post? Double Tarpit!
Current Mod's and Admins? Tarpit!!!!
Talking climbing in Scummunity? Eternal Tarpit!!!!
Dr. Kodos? Out of the Tarpit and a lifetime Tarpit exemption!!


There's more, that's all you get for now.

Show me the money!


Partner tgreene


Feb 21, 2005, 10:25 AM
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I'm sorry to see Curt go. He was the only conservative on this site who could engage in intelligent political debate using sound logic and fact-based reasoning, all the while maintaining intellectual honesty. I enjoyed our head-butting.
What am I, chopped liver..? :cry:


dirtineye


Feb 21, 2005, 10:43 AM
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[quote="blowboarder"And I'm here for you. Simply ask and I'll respond to the call of duty. :lol:

I'n honor of GrandePeter laying out some free advice, I'll throw down a free outline of how it will go.

Dirtineye? Tarpit!
Bite me.

BUT at least this line will get you a LOT of new friends ROTFLMAO!


hugepedro


Feb 21, 2005, 10:45 AM
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I'm sorry to see Curt go. He was the only conservative on this site who could engage in intelligent political debate using sound logic and fact-based reasoning, all the while maintaining intellectual honesty. I enjoyed our head-butting.
What am I, chopped liver..? :cry:

T, I knew the Curt internet persona, and you sir are no Curt internet persona.

Sorry, but gun nuts are by definition disqualified from ever being categorized as a "conservative who can engage in intelligent political debate".

:wink:


blowboarder


Feb 21, 2005, 10:52 AM
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Sorry, Tarineye, I can't see what you wrote.

You're in the tarpit, baby. :lol:


blowboarder


Feb 21, 2005, 10:54 AM
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Chopped Liver? TARPIT!!!


dirtineye


Feb 21, 2005, 11:17 AM
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Sorry, Tarineye, I can't see what you wrote.

You're in the tarpit, baby. :lol:

If you can't see it it is because you killfiled me, a plan I highly recommend. I'd killfile myself if I weren't me.


madriver


Feb 21, 2005, 11:26 AM
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T, I knew the Curt internet persona, and you sir are no Curt internet persona.


...oddly...I think internet personas' are a pigment of our imagination...


love
...bwhahahahaha.........


blowboarder


Feb 21, 2005, 11:49 AM
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Sorry, Tarineye, I can't see what you wrote.

You're in the tarpit, baby. :lol:

If you can't see it it is because you killfiled me, a plan I highly recommend. I'd killfile myself if I weren't me.

Nah, no killfile, just messin wit u.

But your still in the Tarpit as soon as the powers that were come to their senses and hand over Whack-A-Mole power to me. :lol:


dirtineye


Feb 21, 2005, 12:08 PM
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Sorry, Tarineye, I can't see what you wrote.

You're in the tarpit, baby. :lol:

If you can't see it it is because you killfiled me, a plan I highly recommend. I'd killfile myself if I weren't me.

Nah, no killfile, just messin wit u.

But your still in the Tarpit as soon as the powers that were come to their senses and hand over Whack-A-Mole power to me. :lol:

You know I like the way you mess with me. All is forgiven, we can get a new clown suit.

I think if you want to Whack-A-Mole me though, there is a long, long line to stand in.


camhead


Feb 21, 2005, 12:24 PM
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Grammar Nazi's? Tarpit!

Actually, you want a plural of "nazi," not possessive, so get rid of the apostro-[BAM!!!!!


Partner one900johnnyk


Feb 21, 2005, 12:38 PM
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hahahahahaha


blowboarder


Feb 21, 2005, 1:31 PM
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Enjoy your stay, Camhead. You're gonna be in there for a long time.


(Notice correct use of "You're" and "there". :lol:


jt512


Feb 21, 2005, 1:47 PM
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In reply to:
You can assume that if someone gets tarpitted that there is a concensus about it among the Mods, and in particular, that Phil concurs.

Without refering to the specific post, a moderater pointed out a different version of this. A mod gets an idea of tarpitting someone and then runs it around a mod only forum. Regardless of the feedback, that mod can go ahead and tarpit the individual. The quote specifically mentioned that "consensus" is not needed.

We have both provide abridged versions of the process. The reason that you can assume there is consensus is that either consensus will have been reached before the person was tarpitted, or afterward. That is, if a moderator unilaterally tarpits someone, and other moderators object to it, then that moderator's decision will promptly be reversed, probably by Phil.

Mods do have the authority to unilaterally tarpit users, but it is rare that they do so, except for blatant black-and-white violations of the TOS, such as spamming. If there is likely to be controversy over an action, it is very unlikely that a mod would act unilaterally.

-Jay


jt512


Feb 21, 2005, 1:49 PM
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In reply to:
You can assume that if someone gets tarpitted that there is a concensus about it among the Mods, and in particular, that Phil concurs.

Without refering to the specific post, a moderater pointed out a different version of this. A mod gets an idea of tarpitting someone and then runs it around a mod only forum. Regardless of the feedback, that mod can go ahead and tarpit the individual. The quote specifically mentioned that "consensus" is not needed.

We have both provide abridged versions of the process. The reason that you can assume there is consensus is that either consensus will have been reached before the person was tarpitted, or afterward. That is, if a moderator unilaterally tarpits someone, and other moderators object to it, then that moderator's decision will promptly be reversed, probably by Phil.

Mods do have the authority to unilaterally tarpit users, but it is rare that they do so, except for blatant black-and-white violations of the TOS, such as spamming. If there is likely to be controversy over an action, it is very unlikely that a mod would act unilaterally.

-Jay


Partner philbox
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Feb 21, 2005, 3:23 PM
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In this case the users tarpit was downgraded to a warning and that action was communicated to the mods as well as the user.

None of us are perfect and if any of us had our time over again we would always choose different actions. Hindsight is of course 20/20 vision. Yep curt is a long time user of high standing amongst the users here. Should he be offered special privileges, should popular users be given special privileges that the less well known users shouldn`t get? It seems that this is what the users are asking. Should this site become unmoderated? That is a question that by and large has been answered already by this sites popularity.

We the mods and site managers have determined that we will continue to moderate the forums albeit to a much lesser extent than in the past. We still aim to see that civil society is operating and that the broken window syndrome is fixed so that the vast majority of users are benefited.

I personally thank everyone who has commented in this thread particularly JT512, dingus and hugepedro. Your commitment to place serious comment in a thread such as this is apreciated and indeed is taken heed of. I hope that we can do better in the future and take your concerns to heart.

I would dearly love it if curt could see his way clear to come back and participate on the site. I do hope his self imposed exile will be short lived. He would be most welcome to come back.


danooguy


Feb 21, 2005, 5:36 PM
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The moderation of this site is excellent compared to many others.

On Friday on another board I was banned for 48 hours which is the equivalent of tarpitting I would guess. The reason was because I made the mistake of taken the opposing side in a debate which happened to be the pet issue of one of the mods. Nothing to that effect has occurred here...for me at least. I have come to this board, and expressed myself and my opinions unfettered by the moderators here regardless of how fiercely the issue was debated. That is, in my opinion, one aspect of good moderation.

Though I hated to see the end of Kodos and Curt, I have seen lesser intellects vacate the cyberspace premises of other boards or be asked to leave over much less. The Planet needs more people like Kodos, Curt, Shortfatoldguy, and Bonger.


Partner amber


Feb 21, 2005, 5:39 PM
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I personally thank everyone who has commented in this thread particularly JT512, dingus and hugepedro.

Hmm. What did Peter say that was any different than what maculated or I said? Well, aside from the fact that he mentioned being a consultant, and I merely offered to mud wrestle to the ground anyone who is in disagreement with the fact that a more effective public spokesperson is in dire need around here?


jt512


Feb 21, 2005, 5:54 PM
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I personally thank everyone who has commented in this thread particularly JT512, dingus and hugepedro.

Hmm. What did Peter say that was any different than what maculated or I said? Well, aside from the fact that he mentioned being a consultant, and I merely offered to mud wrestle to the ground anyone who is in disagreement with the fact that a more effective public spokesperson is in dire need around here?

Notice that she's dropped the bikini requirement.

-Jay


Partner philbox
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Feb 21, 2005, 5:57 PM
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Dammit I forgot about the mud wrestling thing, Amber wins, hands down, slam dunk, no argument here. :lol:

Amber and maculated you girls rool.


murf


Feb 21, 2005, 5:58 PM
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In this case the users tarpit was downgraded to a warning and that action was communicated to the mods as well as the user.

Sweet Jesus! And it took how many pages of bullshit for you to come out with some sort of story ( this "warning" thing seems to be new )? Did it really take this long for the mod forum to grind up this solution?

In reply to:
None of us are perfect and if any of us had our time over again we would always choose different actions. Hindsight is of course 20/20 vision. Yep curt is a long time user of high standing amongst the users here. Should he be offered special privileges, should popular users be given special privileges that the less well known users shouldn`t get? It seems that this is what the users are asking.

I'm not sure this is what was being put forth. I think that when a "popular user" gets tarpitted and leaves in a hissy hit, the mod-crowd should be ready with some sort of coherent story for the peons. You could tarpit me , for instance, and not a soul would notice.

In reply to:
We the mods and site managers have determined that we will continue to moderate the forums albeit to a much lesser extent than in the past. We still aim to see that civil society is operating and that the broken window syndrome is fixed so that the vast majority of users are benefited.

I think that's been obvious to anyone who can read. Seems to be working well.

In reply to:
I personally thank everyone who has commented in this thread particularly JT512, dingus and hugepedro. Your commitment to place serious comment in a thread such as this is apreciated and indeed is taken heed of. I hope that we can do better in the future and take your concerns to heart.

I'll accept your heartfelt thanks for the "little names" of the site who contributed.

Murf


Partner philbox
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Feb 21, 2005, 6:21 PM
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I'll accept your heartfelt thanks for the "little names" of the site who contributed.

Murf

Notice I said everyone, that would definitely include you murf.

Yep, it is still a learning curve and may well always be that way as staff move in and out of responsibility. Yes we can do better and in fact this is something that the staff of the site always strive for, we want to be the best at everything we do and by and large I think we succeed. Our shortcomings are definitely pointed out to us in no uncertain terms and by and large again we do take notice of what you the users say to us. Yep we do need to give a coherent response, that is a definite.

What I cannot do is talk too much about any one particular action that has been taken against any one user. I`m particularly grateful that curt took the trouble of communicating his concerns via PM. This is as it should be and whilst this occurs I will not reveal what has been occuring behind the scenes. I and the mods also have rules which we must uphold for the sake of consistency. One is that the mods forum is a private affair and the issues discussed within shall remain private. Sorry but I can`t go against that policy.

I will however try to keep things as open and transparent as I possibly can in the future. I will try to not drop any surprises into your laps.


madriver


Feb 21, 2005, 7:24 PM
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Re: Egos and Icons, and the departure of Curt. [In reply to]
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...wait..

...can we get back to arguing about why this site should or shouldn't tarpit someone...and quit with the ass kissing....or at least debate the relevance of why someone should be tarpitted vs. banned...or...


dirtineye


Feb 21, 2005, 7:54 PM
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Re: Egos and Icons, and the departure of Curt. [In reply to]
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In reply to:
...wait..

...can we get back to arguing about why this site should or shouldn't tarpit someone...and quit with the ass kissing....or at least debate the relevance of why someone should be tarpitted vs. banned...or...

I think a little ass kissing is a good thing, as long as I am not the one kissing the asses.

Although some do not agree, all I can say about philbox is that he has done his best to be fair. He's only human. While some admins and mods may have had their own not-so-good agenda, I believe that Phil's has always been, live and let live, within reason.

MOST of the mods and admins are trying to do their best. If you have not noticed, things have changed for the better around here. But everyone makes mistakes.

Besides, real climbers are often real buttheads. There will be friction.

Time to get over it.


photon


Feb 22, 2005, 12:56 PM
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Re: Egos and Icons, and the departure of Curt. [In reply to]
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another drama queen packs up and leaves?
pft
bfd


hugepedro


Feb 22, 2005, 1:36 PM
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Re: Egos and Icons, and the departure of Curt. [In reply to]
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In reply to:
In reply to:
I personally thank everyone who has commented in this thread particularly JT512, dingus and hugepedro.

Hmm. What did Peter say that was any different than what maculated or I said? Well, aside from the fact that he mentioned being a consultant, and I merely offered to mud wrestle to the ground anyone who is in disagreement with the fact that a more effective public spokesperson is in dire need around here?

Amber,
See, it's all about knowing your target audience. I noticed that the offer of mud wrestling didn't catch their attention so much, except for Jay, so I threw out "free consulting", which everyone knows is actually code for "sweet man-lovin". See how that works?


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Feb 22, 2005, 1:43 PM
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Re: Egos and Icons, and the departure of Curt. [In reply to]
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In reply to:

Amber,
See, it's all about knowing your target audience. I noticed that the offer of mud wrestling didn't catch their attention so much, except for Jay, so I threw out "free consulting", which everyone knows is actually code for "sweet man-lovin". See how that works?

I do so very much hope that was directed at amber and not me, I feel so dirty, I have been violated, oh the pain of it all. :shock: :oops:


Partner ctardi


Feb 22, 2005, 1:48 PM
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Re: Egos and Icons, and the departure of Curt. [In reply to]
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Hey Phill...let me know about the thing in the place with the stuff asap please. :lol:


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Feb 22, 2005, 5:23 PM
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Re: Egos and Icons, and the departure of Curt. [In reply to]
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In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
I personally thank everyone who has commented in this thread particularly JT512, dingus and hugepedro.

Hmm. What did Peter say that was any different than what maculated or I said? Well, aside from the fact that he mentioned being a consultant, and I merely offered to mud wrestle to the ground anyone who is in disagreement with the fact that a more effective public spokesperson is in dire need around here?

Amber,
See, it's all about knowing your target audience. I noticed that the offer of mud wrestling didn't catch their attention so much, except for Jay, so I threw out "free consulting", which everyone knows is actually code for "sweet man-lovin". See how that works?

touche. i'll go buy a strap-on. ;)


stymingersfink


Dec 6, 2007, 10:01 PM
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Re: [amber] Egos and Icons, and the departure of Curt. [In reply to]
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[quote "amber"]touche. i'll go buy a strap-on. ;)[/quote] parries... feints... thrusts!



PTFTJFCW!!!!!!!!!!!!


Point: Stymingersfink!


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Dec 7, 2007, 3:06 PM
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Re: [jt512] Egos and Icons, and the departure of Curt. [In reply to]
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[quote "jt512"][quote]
It's only a matter of time. Curt isn't the first, and he won't be the last. The noticable decline in the number of knowledgeable climbers who contribute to RC will only lead to this becoming a dull, uninformative site.
[/quote]

Outside of Community the forums are dominated by repetitive questions from illiterate, adolescent n00bs, who think that they can learn to rock climb by asking stupid questions on the internet. Thus, the site is already dull and uninformative. The forums are the centerpiece of this website, and likely always will be. Unfortunately, management has not invested in infrastructure -- such as a FAQ and a really good forum search function -- necessary to transform the forums from what is little better than a teen chat room into a venue that would attract serious, experienced climbers, rather than repel them.

-Jay[/quote]

heh heh this was before ddt and the bunch took over the site

more meatbomz!!!


notapplicable


Dec 7, 2007, 4:53 PM
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Re: [stymingersfink] Egos and Icons, and the departure of Curt. [In reply to]
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stymingersfink wrote:
[quote "amber"]touche. i'll go buy a strap-on. ;)[/quote] parries... feints... thrusts!



PTFTJFCW!!!!!!!!!!!!


Point: Stymingersfink!


SlySlySly

Good job Sty. You had me all fucked up their for a min., I signed on and saw 10 new threads with +200 post counts and thought you guys went insane today while I was at work. Nicely done Sr., nicely done.


stymingersfink


Dec 7, 2007, 5:05 PM
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Re: [notapplicable] Egos and Icons, and the departure of Curt. [In reply to]
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notapplicable wrote:
stymingersfink wrote:
[quote "amber"]touche. i'll go buy a strap-on. ;)[/quote] parries... feints... thrusts!



PTFTJFCW!!!!!!!!!!!!


Point: Stymingersfink!


SlySlySly

Good job Sty. You had me all fucked up their for a min., I signed on and saw 10 new threads with +200 post counts and thought you guys went insane today while I was at work. Nicely done Sr., nicely done.
I think I may have spent a little too much time hangin' out with my dear Old Grand Dad at the hotel last night. It seems I took j_ung's suggestion to pick cherries a little farther than I perhaps should have. Glad you enjoyed it however.Wink

At least it wasn't as bad as the email i sent to some (probably now "former") friends regarding "the worst thing EVAR" thread.Crazy Thank god that damn thing ended up in the trash where it belongs. Unimpressed


Partner wideguy


Dec 7, 2007, 5:22 PM
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Re: [stymingersfink] Egos and Icons, and the departure of Curt. [In reply to]
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I love that it is refferred to as the "Internet phenomenon Two girls..."

But you have to admit, having seen the video, watching the compilations of people's reactions was pretty damn funny.

"Wait for it.... There it is!"

Cool


bent_gate


Dec 7, 2007, 6:30 PM
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Re: [wideguy] Egos and Icons, and the departure of Curt. [In reply to]
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I liked the music.


notapplicable


Dec 7, 2007, 7:01 PM
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Re: [stymingersfink] Egos and Icons, and the departure of Curt. [In reply to]
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stymingersfink wrote:
Thank god that damn thing ended up in the trash where it belongs. Unimpressed


They canned it!?!

I feel like a more well rounded individual for having seen it myself. Formative experiences I tell ya, formative experiences.


microbarn


Dec 7, 2007, 7:09 PM
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Re: [stymingersfink] Egos and Icons, and the departure of Curt. [In reply to]
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stymingersfink wrote:
notapplicable wrote:
stymingersfink wrote:
[quote "amber"]touche. i'll go buy a strap-on. ;)[/quote] parries... feints... thrusts!



PTFTJFCW!!!!!!!!!!!!


Point: Stymingersfink!


SlySlySly

Good job Sty. You had me all fucked up their for a min., I signed on and saw 10 new threads with +200 post counts and thought you guys went insane today while I was at work. Nicely done Sr., nicely done.
I think I may have spent a little too much time hangin' out with my dear Old Grand Dad at the hotel last night. It seems I took j_ung's suggestion to pick cherries a little farther than I perhaps should have. Glad you enjoyed it however.Wink

At least it wasn't as bad as the email i sent to some (probably now "former") friends regarding "the worst thing EVAR" thread.Crazy Thank god that damn thing ended up in the trash where it belongs. Unimpressed
I am not surprised, but still.... Frown


stymingersfink


Dec 7, 2007, 8:31 PM
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Registered: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 7250

Re: [stymingersfink] Egos and Icons, and the departure of Curt. [In reply to]
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stymingersfink wrote:
[quote "amber"]touche. i'll go buy a strap-on. ;)[/quote] parries... feints... thrusts!

funny how when you try to quote one of the old posts, the editor adds the "." to the [quote][/quote] tags to turn them off, huh. I missed that the first time, but I guess I'll know better next time.



In the meantime, let me clean up after myself a little bit.


amber wrote:
touche. i'll go buy a strap-on. ;)


There. That's better.


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