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jt512
Mar 22, 2005, 4:18 PM
Post #26 of 34
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In reply to: In reply to: If by "behind the rope" you mean "in front of the rope," then there is no good time to do this. You should never intentially step in front of the rope. Get that? Never. -Jay You gonna argue semantics with me.
I'm not arguing semantics. I'm trying to understand what you are saying. There's a big difference between saying you stepped in front of the rope and saying you stepped behind it, don't you think. It's hard enough to communicate in this format, never mind when people write the exact fucking opposite of what they mean, and then accuse you of "arguing semantics" when you try to clarify it.
In reply to: Yes, thats what i meant. Your "never" answer is no good here. I guarantee you do some things that go against what you were taught...
My "never" answer is damn good here. Yes, I occasionally do things differently from the norm; no, intentionally stepping in front of the rope is never one of them. It is never correct to step in front of the rope. It is a gumby move. Period.
In reply to: ... to get my foot out of the way, I will stick it in front if the clip is off to the side.
I don't get this at all. If the rope is between your foot and the wall (ie, your foot is behind the rope), where it is supposed to be, then how can your foot be in the way (to make the clip, is what I think you are talking about)? How have I managed to climb trad, sport, and gym for 15 years without ever having to step in front of the rope to get my foot out of the way?
-Jay
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wonderwoman
Mar 22, 2005, 4:28 PM
Post #27 of 34
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Okay, let's cool down there BEC and jt512. Let's play nice, please. I'm not happy about any of this either.
I can tell you what I remember about attempting the clip. I did not 'step' in front of anything. What I did was put myself in heel hook position, pull the rope with my left hand from my left side which then put my left foot between the rope and the wall. In other words, the rope was on the outsied of my left ankle. I then missed the clip and fell. That is what position I was in when I fell.
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jt512
Mar 22, 2005, 4:46 PM
Post #28 of 34
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In reply to: I did not 'step' in front of anything. What I did was put myself in heel hook position, pull the rope with my left hand from my left side which then put my left foot between the rope and the wall. In other words, the rope was on the outsied of my left ankle. I then missed the clip and fell. That is what position I was in when I fell.
Then, apparently, you were flipped upsidedown by the rope, so I would say that that mystery is solved. It's important that you realize what you did wrong: I would refer to what you did as stepping in front of the rope. Maybe that's not literally correct. If you want to get technical, I suppose you could say that you stepped in front of where you had to pull the rope up, which forced you to have to pull the rope up behind your leg, but that's a mouthful. What you should have done was to step around the rope when you heel hooked. At least that's what it sounds like. Without seeing the actual route or at least a diagram it's hard to say for sure. But in my experience there is always a way to position the leg with respect to the rope so that when you clip you are not pulling the rope up behind your leg. If I had made that mistake, and found that I had to pull up rope behind my leg, I would not have made the clip. I'd have either stepped around the rope first, downclimbed, or taken an intentional controlled fall to avoid risking an out-of-control upsidedown fall.
-Jay
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blueeyedclimber
Mar 22, 2005, 7:40 PM
Post #29 of 34
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In reply to: I'm not arguing semantics. I'm trying to understand what you are saying. There's a big difference between saying you stepped in front of the rope and saying you stepped behind it, don't you think. It's hard enough to communicate in this format, never mind when people write the exact f---ing opposite of what they mean, and then accuse you of "arguing semantics" when you try to clarify it. In reply to: Yes, thats what i meant. Your "never" answer is no good here. I guarantee you do some things that go against what you were taught... My "never" answer is damn good here. Yes, I occasionally do things differently from the norm; no, intentionally stepping in front of the rope is never one of them. It is never correct to step in front of the rope. It is a gumby move. Period. In reply to: ... to get my foot out of the way, I will stick it in front if the clip is off to the side. I don't get this at all. If the rope is between your foot and the wall (ie, your foot is behind the rope), where it is supposed to be, then how can your foot be in the way (to make the clip, is what I think you are talking about)? How have I managed to climb trad, sport, and gym for 15 years without ever having to step in front of the rope to get my foot out of the way? -Jay
Ok, I said you were arguing semantics because I mistyped and I assumed you knew what i meant. My bad. And wonderwoman, I am very cool..see-----> :D :D
edited because I forgot to pay homage to Jay's 15 years of trad, sport, and gym climbing. Here's your crown :roll:
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antigrav
Mar 22, 2005, 8:10 PM
Post #30 of 34
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Registered: Aug 18, 2003
Posts: 215
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In reply to: The only time I would climb with a helmet is when there is a chance of rocks or gear falling on my head, otherwise don't get in over your head, no pun intended. Lately I see a lot of people strolling around the crag with stick clips or top roping with helmets. ...
Good point. A fat kid down the street told me that rocks will not fall during toproping, particularly not on those strolling around the crag, so it must be true.
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blueeyedclimber
Mar 22, 2005, 8:20 PM
Post #31 of 34
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In reply to: In reply to: The only time I would climb with a helmet is when there is a chance of rocks or gear falling on my head, otherwise don't get in over your head, no pun intended. Lately I see a lot of people strolling around the crag with stick clips or top roping with helmets. ... Good point. A fat kid down the street told me that rocks will not fall during toproping, particularly not on those strolling around the crag, so it must be true.
All right, let's not turn this into a helmet/no helmet debate. There already is a few of those.
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climbsomething
Mar 22, 2005, 8:23 PM
Post #32 of 34
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Registered: May 30, 2002
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In reply to: edited because I forgot to pay homage to Jay's 15 years of trad, sport, and gym climbing. Here's your crown :roll:
Jay doesn't need a crown, but he might like a cookie. And by cookie I mean icy-cold margarita.
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caughtinside
Mar 22, 2005, 8:51 PM
Post #33 of 34
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Registered: Jan 8, 2003
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I think Jay accurately pointed out why you flipped. But I wanted to mention something I saw in your post in the Ladies room, where you said you missed the clip a couple times.
THis leads me to believe that you were in much too low a position to clip efficiently. In my opinion, you should never 'miss' clips. This is different from blowing clips.
Occasionally, I have done sort of a 'deadpoint clip' where the draw/bolt is just out of reach, from a good position. I will move dynamically to clip, and then settle back into my original position. HOwever, I don't really like doing this because it wastes energy, and I only do it when the holds/position is such that I will not fall, even if I do 'miss.' Sort of a technique of last resort, as in the case of a poorly placed bolt, or I couldn't sucker my partner into hanging draws for me. :P
I can't speak specifically to your situation, but a 'watch me' might be called for if you're doing a sketchy clip, and a warning from the belayer if the rope is behind their leg. I always warn my climber if I see the rope behind the leg.
Glad you're ok.
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reno
Mar 22, 2005, 9:13 PM
Post #34 of 34
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Registered: Oct 30, 2001
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It almost sounds, from what I'm reading, that you heel hooked, then pulled the rope up from behind your leg.
Or, in other words, you didn't actually step in front of the rope. Instead, you stepped up correctly, but pulled the rope wrong, leading to your left leg being in front of the rope.
Again, hard to envision exactly what happened without a picture/diagram of the route.
Glad you're OK, though... coulda been worse.
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