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afiveonbelay
Sep 15, 2005, 7:03 PM
Post #26 of 38
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Registered: Sep 8, 2003
Posts: 178
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Instead of "ROCK" how about "HEADACHE"? I think I', going to start the Marmalade system myself!
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jt512
Sep 15, 2005, 7:15 PM
Post #27 of 38
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Registered: Apr 12, 2001
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In reply to: As misinterpreting the command could be slightly dangerous, by either pulling your partner off or feeding out slack at a very inopportune time, i proposed the idea of dropped the command "slack" and replacing it with "give." Because it doesn't sound like anything else. We're using 3 commands for rope movement, give(slack) take(take in slack and lock off, cause it's easy to scream loud) and tension(remove slack, you slack ass belayer, I'm seconding like a rabid dog remember?[aka I'm scared, please hold my hand]). What do you guys think of this idea, or do you have any better solution? My problem with the command "up-rope" is that is sounds too much like "rope" when throwing for a rap. I agree that sometimes "slack" and "take" sound similar. "Give" might be a good alternative to "slack." "Tension" and "take" mean the same thing to all informed English-speaking climbers, so you shouldn't get into the habit of using either of them to mean "up-rope" (ie, reduce the amount of slack in the rope). "Up-rope" really doesn't sound much like "rope," in practice. In fact, some climbers use the term "rope" for both of these signals. Since "rope" and "up-rope" are used in entirely different contexts, there is little chance to confuse them. I can't think of a single time in 20 years of climbing that I've confused those two signals. I disagree with the several posters who have written that any of the signals "on-belay," "belay-on," "off-belay," or "belay-off" are superfluous. In a multi-pitch setting all four are important. -Jay
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gat
Sep 15, 2005, 7:25 PM
Post #28 of 38
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Registered: Oct 3, 2003
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In reply to: The rope pull signal that makes the most sense to me is one pull for each syllable. "Off belay" and "belay on" would both be three tugs; "climbing" and "climb on" are each two tugs. Easy to remember, but with enough drag your partner may have some trouble differentiating. I'd have to agree with your last sentence, why bother with the number of tugs - it's where you are in the sequence that counts. Also, I agree with whoever (Dingus?) implied that when using "tugs" cut out most of the typical commands that you would use verbally. I don't think more communications make it safer, I think it just opens the door to confusion. First series of tugs, leader is off belay. Second series of tugs, second is on belay. It can't get much easier.
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gat
Sep 15, 2005, 7:33 PM
Post #29 of 38
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Registered: Oct 3, 2003
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In reply to: I disagree with the several posters who have written that any of the signals "on-belay," "belay-on," "off-belay," or "belay-off" are superfluous. In a multi-pitch setting all four are important. -Jay Just curious, why? Not arguing, but asking because I always like another point of view. If I am leading and I am secure, I then signal off belay. Why do I need my second to respond that they have taken me off belay? Granted, it'll slow things down if I go to pull rope only to find that I am still on belay. However, I'll still only loose a moment while my inattentive belayer takes me off belay.
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jt512
Sep 15, 2005, 7:53 PM
Post #30 of 38
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Registered: Apr 12, 2001
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In reply to: In reply to: I disagree with the several posters who have written that any of the signals "on-belay," "belay-on," "off-belay," or "belay-off" are superfluous. In a multi-pitch setting all four are important. -Jay Just curious, why? Not arguing, but asking because I always like another point of view. If I am leading and I am secure, I then signal off belay. Why do I need my second to respond that they have taken me off belay? Granted, it'll slow things down if I go to pull rope only to find that I am still on belay. However, I'll still only loose a moment while my inattentive belayer takes me off belay. That's part of the answer. But, how about this scenario: You and your partner have an "off-belay" signal, but no "belay-off" reply; your partner (the belayer) thinks he hears you yell "off-belay" and takes you off while you're still climbing -- maybe you yelled something else; maybe he heard another climber's command; whatever, it has happened. You'd never know (unless you fell). At least with a mandatory "belay-off" reply you'd have a chance to secure yourself or get your belayer to put you back on. -Jay
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clausti
Sep 15, 2005, 8:03 PM
Post #31 of 38
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Registered: Oct 5, 2004
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I agree with jay- "take" and "tension" mean the same thing. "up rope," however, means something completely different. "watch me" for, i'm scared, be ready to catch this nasty whipper. or for dont blow the spot this slab-mantle is scary. "youre the climber i'm the hand"[belayer] while they *phsysically check* and make sure the gri gri is loaded properly. informal, but gaining prevalence 'round here. also, the few times i've been not able to see my leader [slab before the chains, the rare trad route, ect] its been "off belay!" "off belay?" "yes!" "belay is off!" but yall forgot "in direct" for when they are cleaning the chains of a sport route. :twisted:
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gat
Sep 15, 2005, 8:03 PM
Post #32 of 38
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Registered: Oct 3, 2003
Posts: 420
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I disagree with the several posters who have written that any of the signals "on-belay," "belay-on," "off-belay," or "belay-off" are superfluous. In a multi-pitch setting all four are important. -Jay Just curious, why? Not arguing, but asking because I always like another point of view. If I am leading and I am secure, I then signal off belay. Why do I need my second to respond that they have taken me off belay? Granted, it'll slow things down if I go to pull rope only to find that I am still on belay. However, I'll still only loose a moment while my inattentive belayer takes me off belay. That's part of the answer. But, how about this scenario: You and your partner have an "off-belay" signal, but no "belay-off" reply; your partner (the belayer) thinks he hears you yell "off-belay" and takes you off while you're still climbing -- maybe you yelled something else; maybe he heard another climber's command; whatever, it has happened. You'd never know (unless you fell). At least with a mandatory "belay-off" reply you'd have a chance to secure yourself or get your belayer to put you back on. -Jay My bad, I was under the (wrong) impression that you were referring to the commands when using tugs to communicate. In which case, the leader definitely wouldn't be happy when I replied "belay-off" via 3-5 really hard tugs :lol:
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jt512
Sep 15, 2005, 8:06 PM
Post #33 of 38
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Registered: Apr 12, 2001
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In reply to: "youre the climber i'm the hand"[belayer]... For a little sadistic fun, I like to reverse this "command" every once in a while. -Jay
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yikes
Sep 15, 2005, 8:33 PM
Post #34 of 38
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Registered: Mar 15, 2003
Posts: 16
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In reply to: She arrives, we exchange gear and a smoke, then she's off on the next lead. She disappears. Soon enough the pile of rope at my feet disappears. When there is about 20 feet left I start breaking down the belay. That is sure to garner a look from a certain crowd. By the time the last 5 feet of slack remain, I have one piece left in the belay, one knot left to tie in, my pack is on, my chalk bag is open, I've had my last drink and I'm ready to go. So as soon as she sets the belay (or decides to just keep going with a running belay) and the rope comes tight, I am SO climbing. And we like it that way. DMT I have to say dingus I read your posts and though I don't always agree with you, this is magic. Thanks, Longtimelurker
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tradrenn
Sep 18, 2005, 11:50 PM
Post #35 of 38
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Registered: Jan 16, 2005
Posts: 2990
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In reply to: climber: falling! belayer: hold on, let me get the cap back on the water bottle. Climber: "Got me?" Belayer: "Gotcha." Climber: " 'right -- here I go". Belayer: "go" or "go for it". Classic. So Funny.
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tradrenn
Sep 18, 2005, 11:56 PM
Post #36 of 38
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Registered: Jan 16, 2005
Posts: 2990
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In reply to: Climber: Hideeho and away I go Belayer: Okee dokee You guys are killing me.
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tradrenn
Sep 19, 2005, 12:00 AM
Post #37 of 38
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Registered: Jan 16, 2005
Posts: 2990
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If you can't hear eachother then at the end of pitch set the belay, put your partner on and start pulling the rope and don't stop till he or she gets to the top. Just let them know you will be doing that before you climb the pitch.
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lewisiarediviva
Sep 20, 2005, 11:21 PM
Post #38 of 38
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Registered: Aug 1, 2004
Posts: 527
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In reply to: If you can't hear eachother then at the end of pitch set the belay, put your partner on and start pulling the rope and don't stop till he or she gets to the top. Just let them know you will be doing that before you climb the pitch. Yea, I like to pull my partner to me before I climb too. :lol:
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