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Krahlick Rocks - Dunbar, PA Closed
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arrettinator


May 1, 2006, 7:58 AM
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Krahlick Rocks - Dunbar, PA Closed  (North_America: United_States: Pennsylvania: Southwestern_Region: Krahlick)
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I just heard that Krahlick has been purchased by a Gun club and is closed to climbing. Some climbers have had their gear confiscated, even. Anyone else have any info on this?


microbarn


May 1, 2006, 8:19 AM
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Re: Krahlick Rocks - Dunbar, PA Closed [In reply to]
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I have no information, but I can't say I am too sad to hear if it goes. I think I have only ever had one good experience there. All other experiences have been remarkably bad.

Large groups are always hanging around the main area. People crap onto the top of the routes. Breakins have reportedly gotten worse.

My only regret is that the people causing my previous bad experiences may spread to other crags now.


arrettinator


May 1, 2006, 9:00 AM
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Re: Krahlick Rocks - Dunbar, PA Closed [In reply to]
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I bet I know exactly who it was, too. I've only had bad experiences there when one certain group brings clients there (who will remain unnamed). They felt they owned the place and didn't control their client's actions. One incedent I remember kids throwing nalgenes off the top, and one of our kids almost getting hit. After we asked them to stop, their guide had some words to share. We kindly told him where he could stick his gear. It was always the same group. Other folks were very nice. But we were usually there alone most of the time. We guided small groups, 6-10 people, and climbed there recreationally as well. Tuesdays were usually the quietest.


microbarn


May 1, 2006, 10:27 AM
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Re: Krahlick Rocks - Dunbar, PA Closed [In reply to]
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I don't mean to rag on big groups. My one experience there that was good had a very large group. They were excellent crag company.

I am not sure what to blame it on. I just blame the entire crag.


machino


May 1, 2006, 10:58 AM
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Re: Krahlick Rocks - Dunbar, PA Closed [In reply to]
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I have to agree with microbarn. Although I hate to see it go, it was always a circus there. Besides, in my honest opinion, I think there are much better crags within a short distance of here, and lots of them are undeveloped.


markc


May 1, 2006, 10:58 AM
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Re: Krahlick Rocks - Dunbar, PA Closed [In reply to]
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I have no other info, and appreciate hearing about this. Is it posted as no trespassing, or are climbers being caught unaware?

I'm having an exactly opposite emotional reaction from microbarn. I adore Krahlick. My first lead on gear was there. There are a nice mix of routes, from confidence-building routes that are good for beginners to things that will thrash you (or at least me). Depending on the day, it could definitely be crowded. I've also had the crag almost entirely to myself on some weekends. I generally find it a lot more mellow that some areas of Coopers. If it's permanently closed, it's a very sad day indeed.


arrettinator


May 1, 2006, 11:05 AM
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Re: Krahlick Rocks - Dunbar, PA Closed [In reply to]
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In reply to:
I don't mean to rag on big groups.
I do. My experience has been, the larger the group the more problems. Especially when there's only 1 guide per 15 people.

My favorite time down there was when I was about 5 feet from the top, and an apache helicopter came up from behind the trees pointed right at me. It was fully loaded w/ missiles and everything. Later I found out that the military does their helicopter maneuvers in that gully. Frickin sweet times. We even saw an old bubble copter, like in MASH, down there once.


arrettinator


May 1, 2006, 11:16 AM
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Re: Krahlick Rocks - Dunbar, PA Closed [In reply to]
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In reply to:
I have no other info, and appreciate hearing about this. Is it posted as no trespassing, or are climbers being caught unaware?
From what I heard, word of mouth that is, is that it is posted as no trespassing/hunting. I'm hoping someone has been there recently who knows first hand.


markc


May 1, 2006, 11:25 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
I have no other info, and appreciate hearing about this. Is it posted as no trespassing, or are climbers being caught unaware?
From what I heard, word of mouth that is, is that it is posted as no trespassing/hunting. I'm hoping someone has been there recently who knows first hand.

Okay, thanks. By the by, I've never seen a helicopter at Krahlick. It must have been a surreal experience.


chronicle


May 1, 2006, 11:36 AM
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Re: Krahlick Rocks - Dunbar, PA Closed [In reply to]
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This is where I learned to climb. I was looking forward to going down there this year just to see how different it looks after being to so many other crags.

I wonder where wonder where the climbing shop (the place I took my climbing class) will hold their outdoor classes now. Guess I'll have to stop in and ask them.


arrettinator


May 1, 2006, 11:41 AM
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Re: Krahlick Rocks - Dunbar, PA Closed [In reply to]
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In reply to:
I wonder where wonder where the climbing shop (the place I took my climbing class) will hold their outdoor classes now. Guess I'll have to stop in and ask them.
Exkursion?
Edit: spelled w/ a k.


microbarn


May 1, 2006, 11:48 AM
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Yea, people at Exkursion should know. I have to make a trip out there tonight. I will have to let you all know what they say tomorrow.

Dan


arrettinator


May 1, 2006, 12:03 PM
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Re: Krahlick Rocks - Dunbar, PA Closed [In reply to]
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Sweet. I keep forgetting you are right down there.


arrettinator


May 1, 2006, 12:45 PM
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Re: Krahlick Rocks - Dunbar, PA Closed [In reply to]
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I just got an email from someone who has first hand info.
They said it is indeed posted w/ no trespassing signs, and Fred from Exkursion has been in contact w/ the owners trying to work out access permission, but it isn't looking good.


chronicle


May 1, 2006, 12:59 PM
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Re: Krahlick Rocks - Dunbar, PA Closed [In reply to]
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I didn't want to drop names, but since it has already been said, it seems like most people knew who I was talking about anyway.

That is a big hit to Fred and Exkursions. For a beginner class, that place had the perfect setup for topropes, teaching how to set up a toprope, etc. I'm sure if they can't get access, that they can find another crag. That area has so much rock, they really wouldn't have to go far.

Thanks for the update arretinator. I have to stop in at Exkursions tonight, so if I hear anything different, I'll post it up.


arrettinator


May 1, 2006, 1:07 PM
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Re: Krahlick Rocks - Dunbar, PA Closed [In reply to]
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Yeah, that sucks. Fred is a nice guy, and that mustache is frickin awsome. We ran into them a bunch of times down there when he was teaching classes. Always great experiences.


jkarns


May 1, 2006, 1:54 PM
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Re: Krahlick Rocks - Dunbar, PA Closed [In reply to]
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Is this place worth working for?

Is anyone else involved in the discussions other than Fred? Not that I have anything against him, but from past experience, I believe it can be good to have a small number of representatives in any kind of discussion.

What options were discussed?

Can the Pennsylvania Alliance of Climbers help? Our base is a little far from there, but we do have many resources.

Josh


microbarn


May 1, 2006, 3:30 PM
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Re: Krahlick Rocks - Dunbar, PA Closed [In reply to]
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In reply to:
Is this place worth working for?

The AREA is worth fighting for. Krahlick is great rock with a wonderful view. The people that frequent the area are what ruins the experience.

In reply to:
Is anyone else involved in the discussions other than Fred? Not that I have anything against him, but from past experience, I believe it can be good to have a small number of representatives in any kind of discussion.

What options were discussed?

Can the Pennsylvania Alliance of Climbers help? Our base is a little far from there, but we do have many resources.

Josh

I can't answer any of these yet. I am sure you could probably find out much more through a direct conversation with people at Exkursion. http://www.exkursion.com/

Like I said, I will see if I can't get more details shortly. Many of your questions seem like they should be directed to the people with the answers. I get the feeling that any answer I give will lead to more questions. Then I would be serving strictly as a go between.


microbarn


May 2, 2006, 7:44 AM
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most everything came out in the thread yesterday.

Exkursions contacted the land owners, and they did their best. They have decided the best action for climbers to take is to avoid the area. Let the current owners learn that it isn't the climbing community that ruins the area. After they learn that climbers are not the problem, they might be more willing to let us back into the area.


arrettinator


May 2, 2006, 9:53 AM
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Thanks Dan.


tanderson


May 2, 2006, 4:42 PM
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Krahlick was purchased by Joe Hardy of 84 Lumber and it is officially posted with no tresspassing signs... Don't know about enforcment, but I'm sure it is probablly being enforced knowing Joe. Sure is sad to see so many people complaining about crags and not doing anything to improve their current condition. Krahlick is a nice crag its crowded because most people tend to stay on the same 4 or 5 routes at the main area. The GOOD routes were hardly ever climbed. What a shame to see people say o well it was crowded and not that great anyhow.


microbarn


May 2, 2006, 4:56 PM
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What can I do to help the area stay open?

The only person I talked to other than you who really seemed to know things requested that the owner not be bothered with more people asking permission to climb. Since I am not in the know, I can only respect the request to stop bothering the owner.

If there is something I can do, please tell me.


cincysam


May 2, 2006, 7:09 PM
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I climbed at Krahlick a few times when I was in college at Pitt (99-00). I always thought it was a great place - and has some of the tallest cliffs near the Pittsburgh area, if I recall. And when I was there, there was never anyone else around.

Sad, the nicest climbing area here near Cincinnati is closed too. What's up with landowners and their hatred/fear of climbers??? Sigh...

-s


chronicle


May 4, 2006, 8:24 AM
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In reply to:
Is this place worth working for?

Is anyone else involved in the discussions other than Fred? Not that I have anything against him, but from past experience, I believe it can be good to have a small number of representatives in any kind of discussion.

What options were discussed?

Can the Pennsylvania Alliance of Climbers help? Our base is a little far from there, but we do have many resources.

Josh

[Begin]
For those that don't know, the PAC is a grassroots organization, that has the full support of the Access Fund and was initially formed with grant money from the Access Fund. This organization has done a lot for the climbing in central PA and has wanted to help with some of the situations in Western PA. However, the Access Fund Regional Coordinator (you can find the name of this person on the Access Fund website, I won't drop names here) had a HUGE problem with the PAC getting involved. We (the PAC) wanted to try to help with the Projects Area at McConnell Mills, we wanted to do a clean up at Beartown Rocks (which I wound up doing alone anyway), we wanted to work on the situation at Derry High Rocks, etc. I met with the Regional Coordinator and got his take on everything, which was basically, "Keep you 'kiddie' group away." Afterward he called Josh (the president of the PAC) and literally yelled at him for trying to get involved.

Now the other two Access Fund Regional Coordinators for PA are very supportive of the PAC. They have played major roles in slide shows and working with the PAC on access to areas like Safe Harbor.

So, my hats off to the Access Fund Western PA Regional Coordinator. Three areas that I know of (The Projects, Derry High Rocks, and now Krahlick) have been closed while you've held your position AND you have smited the help of an ACCESS FUND SPONSERED ORGANIZATION (the PAC). Good job. Maybe you should run for President.

[End]

I have always supported the PAC, both financially and as an active member. Honestly, I think that this organization should get involved and I feel confident that we could be successful in regaining access. I will help organize fund raisers, slide shows, "town hall" meetings, whatever it takes. But let's not loose this area because we didn't try. If we at try our hardest and still loose access, then at least we can say we tried.


fleamodee


May 4, 2006, 6:54 PM
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The PAC has opened up govenor stables. There's nothing wrong with that, it's a good boulder field, and the PAC is to thank. Have they done much else??? Now the access fund regional reps from east PA on the other hand have done nothing but spread rumors about privately owning areas in central PA, doesn't sound productive to me, as far as I'm concerned they can stay the Fuck away from west PA. As far as access to Western PA areas are concerned there are bigger fish to fry than the McConnells mills, Derry, and Krahlich. Yeah they are good in there own way, but if the resources are going to be used there are much better options out there.


microbarn


May 4, 2006, 7:51 PM
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there is a bouldering comp to help buy White Rocks at the Wall coming up. I think it might be next friday. Details???

I will try to find them and post them up myself tomorrow.


microbarn


May 5, 2006, 4:55 AM
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Purchasing White Rocks Bouldering Comp


chronicle


May 5, 2006, 7:03 AM
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In reply to:
The PAC has opened up govenor stables. There's nothing wrong with that, it's a good boulder field, and the PAC is to thank. Have they done much else???
I know personally that the PAC has sat in many meetings over Safe Harbor. Safe Harbor was open for a couple of weeks, in which Eric Horst and crew started replacing bolts. Now it is closed again because of some other litigation, and the PAC is continuing to go to meetings and fight for access.

In reply to:
As far as access to Western PA areas are concerned there are bigger fish to fry than the McConnells mills, Derry, and Krahlich. Yeah they are good in there own way, but if the resources are going to be used there are much better options out there.
Then these "bigger fish" need to be brought to the attention of the PAC. If nobody speaks up about them, how is the organization supposed to help.

Seriously, the PAC does want to help with access to areas across the entire state. However in order to do that, people from all over the state need to speak up and lay out on the table all of the access issues that are important. So far the only areas that are being "widely" talked about in Western PA is Krahlick, The Projects (talked about for 5-6 years now), and White Rocks.

If you have access issues, and you want to do something about them (other than go online and complain), contact the PAC or the Access Fund and let's see what we can do.

http://www.accessfund.org/index.php
http://www.paclimbers.org/


roclimb


May 5, 2006, 3:54 PM
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Flamodee,

In reply to:
Now the access fund regional reps from east PA on the other hand have done nothing but spread rumors about privately owning areas in central PA,

what are you talking about???????

I have been responsible for having 5-seperate areas in the state open to climbing, organized several cleanups over the years, rebolted countless routes. so resspectfully what areas have I "spread rumors about"?
If your talking about Hunters 90% of the area is on state game lands.
If you are talking about bear Rocks there are two spots called bear rocks. Yes one is on private land and the other is public.

By the way what is currantly going on about bellfonte quarry? I have heard no updates in the past year. Is the quarry still selling the land to the township? Is the township going to allow climbing?
~Rob


roclimb


May 5, 2006, 4:21 PM
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Looking at my sectionsI posted about Bear Rocks I now realize that the Bear Rocks off the road that is on private land could eaisly be cofused for the one that is on public land.

I appologize for any confusion. I know a local climber "spotzie" from Lock Heaven that was recently kicked off the land at the private bear rocks last weekend according to a friend of mine.

anyway sorry if I caused any confusion of the matter. The deal is that spot is closed and will mostlikely be that way forever. The other rocks up the road on public land are just as good but a real far walk.


Back to the main topic,

Has anyone approached the new landowner of Krachlic rocks and asked him if there is the possibility of allowing climbing?
That sucks its closed...there is a real rich history of climbing there dating back to Ivan Jirack origionally climbing there decades ago.
~Rob


fleamodee


May 6, 2006, 10:10 AM
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In reply to:
If you are talking about bear Rocks there are two spots called bear rocks. Yes one is on private land and the other is public.

It's funny how you come to this conclusion after one of your buddies is kicked off, when state college locals have told you on numerous occasions that it was on private land. You were wrong now an area is closed. Until info was posted here there were no problems, then one year of needing a hand written note from the owner to climb there and now it's closed.


roclimb


May 6, 2006, 11:57 AM
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my buddie IS a State College local. The guy has been climbing at bear rocks since the early 80's. From what he and a good friend of mine who is a landowner a few miles from Bear Rocks said is that hardly anyone ever climbs at the place anyway and he also stated that the landowner NEVER allowed climbing.

If MR. shuemaker is not allowing climbing there now than why dont you approach him and ask him what can be done to allow climbing there. A good friend of mine is practally neighbors with him, we would be more than willing to talk with him. Just let me know what I can do.

By the way I NEVER posted directions to the PRIVATE bear rocks. my directions are to the BEAR rocks in Black Moshannon state park it is on public land.

Once again I appologize if you misunderstood what area I posted psuedo directions to.
~Rob


roclimb


May 6, 2006, 12:00 PM
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Flamodee said

In reply to:
Until info was posted here there were no problems


So why did you say last year that there were problems. You flamed in another post about me talking about "Bear" and now you are saying there were no problems? If all you needed was a hand writted note from the land-owner why did'nt you think to mention that last year instead of flaming about the place?

Are you the same Brian I met in Mocanaqua about 2yrs ago who had a silver pathfinder?
~Rob


rockjess


May 6, 2006, 12:14 PM
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How long has Krachlick been closed


fleamodee


May 6, 2006, 12:42 PM
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Mr. Shuemaker recently passed away, the renter of the land who issued the passes never was too happy about the increased traffic and escorted numerous people off of the area with a shotgun. The passes had a whole list of times when one could not climb there and had to be HANDWRITTEN by him personally. Not something all to accessible to the "general public"

At the time of the last thread this whole system was not going on.
Now that Mr. Shuemaker has passed he doesn't want climbers there.

That wasn't me at Moc

Rob where's your guidebook? Wasn't it supposed to be out a long time ago?

I'm going outside to climb now


roclimb


May 6, 2006, 1:00 PM
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Wow a lot of people must have guns in central PA. I hear a story about someone getting escorted off land by shotgun for just about every area near state college. I'm glad I live in farm country.

Do you guys ever climb at the bear Rocks I posted about. Its a long hike but a pleasant setting.
Have fun climbing, I would love to get outside but got an emergency call to go see a patient at the hospital. No climbing fo rme today. Enjoy the nice weather.
~Rob


jkarns


May 8, 2006, 6:53 AM
Post #37 of 40 (5021 views)
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Re: Krahlick Rocks - Dunbar, PA Closed [In reply to]
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A word about the Pennsylvania Alliance of Climbers:

We are a LITTLE organization that is totally 100% dependent on volunteer hours to make anything happen (this means you). Most importantly, we are in need of people for leadership positions, people who are willing to get behind the scenes and form solid relationships with landowners. I get emails all the time from people offering to "help out" at trail days.

Your help is greatly appreciated, but what we really need are people to ORGANIZE trail days (and other events). Under our current leadership volunteer capacity, it is all we can do to keep up with the management of Governor Stable, and this has become a pretty big job.

We are not active in Western PA because we do not have any members in Western PA who want to be active. I'd love for this to change, but I can't really be doing too much out there while living on the other side of the state.

Until someone from the area steps up to the plate, our role there will be minimal. However, we do have resources to offer from afar, and I do offer them to anyone who is interested. If you'd like to take control of your own climbing future and would like the help of an establish organizational infrastructure, feel free to contact me. Until then, the only person to blame for PAC not being active at your local crag is YOU!!


thrill_seeker


Feb 23, 2009, 2:01 PM
Post #38 of 40 (2022 views)
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Re: [jkarns] Krahlick Rocks - Dunbar, PA Closed [In reply to]
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I have no problems going climbing there i live right in connellsville and go there all the time. I just went camping there last summer for 4 days right at the base of the kitchen the only people i seen there was kids from camp carmel, we had no problems with them. And they said nothing about it being posted i will be going there as soon as the weather breaks. I will keep u all updated on the info i find out. I made sure we did not leave any garbage around and we even cleaned up the other garbage that was there. We had a great time.


(This post was edited by thrill_seeker on Feb 23, 2009, 5:14 PM)


cilohabmilc


Sep 11, 2009, 7:47 PM
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Re: [thrill_seeker] Krahlick Rocks - Dunbar, PA Closed [In reply to]
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Camp Carmel has some kind of agreement with the land owner. Contact them www.campcarmel.com because i think that if you camp there overnight you have the same access permission that they do.


Gilbert1976


Jan 23, 2011, 4:05 PM
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Re: [microbarn] Krahlick Rocks - Dunbar, PA Closed [In reply to]
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[quote "microbarn"]most everything came out in the thread yesterday.

Exkursions contacted the land owners, and they did their best. They have decided the best action for climbers to take is to avoid the area. Let the current owners learn that it isn't the climbing community that ruins the area. After they learn that climbers are not the problem, they might be more willing to let us back into the area.[/quote]

It's never the climbers and the outdoor people it's the POS party animals that have no respect for anyone or anything. Same thin happened to many areas I used to ride ATV people dump trash ,leave all their beer bottles and cans and trash. and destroy anything they can find cause while their drunk they think it's cool.


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