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Auto-Locking Vs. Screw gate gate carabiners
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caughtinside


Jul 18, 2006, 10:25 AM
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bah, autolockers are frigging expensive- thats reason enough not to use 'em for the most part.

Oh come on! You don't get to cry $$$ on this, I've seen pictures of your rack! :lol: :P 8^)


gekk084


Jul 18, 2006, 10:32 AM
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I prefer screw gates for weight, efficiency and ease of use. It requires a bit of thinking at the end of day, but it's quite a wake up call for the down-climb, rappel or walk off if I forget to close the gates on the last pitch :shock: . Like anything else, it's a habit I've chosen to develop.

I have an autolock for teaching newbies and screening potential new partners, in a gym or out on the rocks. If a person can't figure out how to lock/unlock a biner I'd hesitate to climb with them anyway, but at least it won't open accidentally because they forgot to lock it.


Partner kimgraves


Jul 18, 2006, 10:32 AM
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Hi,

My two cents is that both auto and screw lockers have there place. The reason to use a locker in the first place is that you need to be assured that the gate will be or will remain closed if a load is placed on the biner. Autolockers have two advantages: one - once you get used to them, they are very fast to use; two - you can't forget to lock them. So if a locker is going to be opened and closed often - like when used as an adjustment to a daisy or PAS - then the speed of an autolocker is advantageous. Another good example is the biner that attached your belay device to your belay loop. If you forget to lock that biner and the gate opens during a fall, the leaders safety is seriously compromised. Another example is attaching a rap device to yourself. The consequences of "forgetting" to lock the biner are potentially deadly. In that place an autolocker assures that you won't make that mistake.

That said, screw locks have there place. For example when building an anchor the biners must either be gates opposed or lockers. Using a screwgate in this situation is just as fast, but is lighter, and cheaper than the alternatives.

My general rule is that anything that gets attached to my belay loop gets an autolocker. Everything else, where a locker is indicated, gets a screwgate.

Autolockers differ in their ease of use. For example, I find the Petzl Ball-lock impossible to use - it's "Kim proof." I like the BD "Rocklock". It BIG and can easily be operated left or right handed. $17 each!!!

http://www.bdel.com/...cklock_twistlock.jpg

For my utility lockers I use the BD Quicksilver screwgate. These guys are light and cheap - $8/each.

http://www.bdel.com/...00_qs2_screwgate.jpg

The objection to autolockers is that "you shouldn't forget to lock a screwgate." But I prefer safety systems where human error is less rather than more of an issue. Certainly, you "should" always be paying attention. But if you can make the system safer, then a momentary lapse hopefully won't be as serious.

Best, Kim


gekk084


Jul 18, 2006, 10:33 AM
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I prefer screw gates for weight, efficiency and ease of use. It requires a bit of thinking at the end of day, but it's quite a wake up call for the down-climb, rappel or walk off if I forget to close the gates on the last pitch :shock: . Like anything else, it's a habit I've chosen to develop.

I have an autolock for teaching newbies and screening potential new partners, in a gym or out on the rocks. If a person can't figure out how to lock/unlock a biner I'd hesitate to climb with them anyway, but at least it won't open accidentally because they forgot to lock it.


kevinheiss


Jul 18, 2006, 10:59 AM
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I agree with boulder_junky, I find the auto locking biner just annoying to deal with when your climbing (at your anchor). I only use one for my ATC, every other locking biner are the screwgates biner.

I think it's all a preference.


mtnfr34k


Jul 18, 2006, 9:01 PM
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This should be a poll!

I admit, I experimented. And I decided that regular screwlocks were better for my habit than autolocking. As some one pointed out earlier, I too have experienced a locking carabiner freezing shut (I try to anticipate this and use two carabiners un-locked instead, but sometimes I miss the boat). After being humiliated once for forgetting to lock a carabiner (I won't say when or where, but I'll admit it happened, and it didn't happen while working) I've become religous about checking every locking carabiner at every belay station I arrive to or depart from.

That being said, I also know another guide (whom I won't name without his permission), who was slapped down on an AMGA course for forgetting to lock his screwgates - so he bought autolocks for his guides exam!


warthog


Jul 18, 2006, 9:41 PM
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I have both kinds but only use screw locks in my ice rack because of the freeze-up effect. When an auto lock freezes one could get frostburn trying to thaw it in one's hand. No need to ask how I know this.


karlbaba


Jul 19, 2006, 12:48 AM
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I have some autolockers but mostly use screwgates.

I hate the ones that are difficult to operate with one hand. You know, pull, twist, and yada yada. I call em "Child Proof Biners"

Here's a tip..If you can't budge the screw on a screwgate: If it's weighted, unweight it and then try it. If it's unweighted, hang on it and try it.

Works like magic almost every time

Peace

Karl


whitribj


Jul 19, 2006, 6:10 AM
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Screwgates are great for anchors but be sure to always place them upside down. This way when the biner moves and the screw moves, it moves downward and tightens instead of moving open.


bill413


Jul 19, 2006, 6:32 AM
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I have a couple of autolockers, and mostly screwgates.
One of my autos I really like - it's single action, I use it as my initial clip in when building anchors, etc. It's advantage is speed.
The other auto is a double action style. Some days it feels very natural, easy to use - other days I just can't get the hand motion right. So, I don't like it as much.
Mostly I use the screwgates. I even have a couple of Chounard reverse lockers, which are the lightest locking biners I've found.


Partner cracklover


Jul 19, 2006, 6:51 AM
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Which is better, chocolate or vanilla ice cream?

Well vanilla is so creamy tasting, I just love it.

No it's not! Chocolate, especially double chocolate tastes so much richer and yummier.

What are you talking about? Chocolate is never as smooth tasting as vanilla, and those chunks just ruin the experience?

Ruin it? The chocolate chunks are the best part, you don't know what you're talking about.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Blah.

Blah.

De gustibus non disputandum est.

GO


flipnfall


Jul 19, 2006, 6:56 AM
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In reply to:
okay which one you prefer and why, I really like the auto locking but the screw gate i have is lighter so i was wondering what are the significant differences and stuff

Up to you, but according to the following article, you're going to need "a mountain hammer" to pound your locking biners into the cracks.

In reply to:
"...locking carabiners (metal pins that he pounded into the rock with a mountain hammer)..."
http://www.ajc.com/...stories/0713yoo.html

GT


g_i_g_i


Jul 19, 2006, 8:30 AM
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Screwgates are great for anchors but be sure to always place them upside down. This way when the biner moves and the screw moves, it moves downward and tightens instead of moving open

I guess I know what you're trying to say, whitribj, but do you realize that this sentence here doesn't make any sense?

g.


whitribj


Jul 19, 2006, 9:35 AM
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Sensibility is often lost on me.

It is a difficult action to describe. I'm not quite sure how to word it.


sick_climba


Jul 19, 2006, 8:43 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
okay which one you prefer and why, I really like the auto locking but the screw gate i have is lighter so i was wondering what are the significant differences and stuff

Up to you, but according to the following article, you're going to need "a mountain hammer" to pound your locking biners into the cracks.

In reply to:
"...locking carabiners (metal pins that he pounded into the rock with a mountain hammer)..."
GT

what the hell is this? where did you find this. I didn't know that pitons were nick-named locking biners.... wow I was lost.


bako_prc


Jul 21, 2006, 6:03 PM
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i like and use them both, but im not afraid to gain a couple grams in exchange for some ease of use. i use an omega auto lock and like it. :deadhorse: i dont get this


rjtrials


Jul 21, 2006, 6:55 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Screwgates are great for anchors but be sure to always place them upside down. This way when the biner moves and the screw moves, it moves downward and tightens instead of moving open

I guess I know what you're trying to say, whitribj, but do you realize that this sentence here doesn't make any sense?

g.

I have always liked the adage:

"Screw down so you don't screw up!"

RJ


whitribj


Jul 24, 2006, 4:26 AM
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I like that, I haven't heard it before.


tradmanclimbs


Jul 24, 2006, 4:52 AM
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Auro lockers are heavy, expensive and you can't work them with gloves on. Both will freeze up but the screw lock costs less if you wreck it getting it open. I Hammered a locker open last winter. just too cold and dark to waste any more time trying to get the ice out.


sky7high


Jul 25, 2006, 2:56 PM
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I have both in my yet-small rack. I hate the three-action autolockers because they can be too much of a hassle when you're in a hurry. I prefer the omega jake or bd rocklock (this one's better because of a keylock nose) Salewa and others are also OK. Given a choice, I would definitely go with autolock, the only real drawback is cost


Partner hosh


Jul 25, 2006, 3:23 PM
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In reply to:
I do not trust the single-action (twist only) types over a screwlock. I feel the force necessary to twist the barrel is less than a screwlock, and has to happen for less time as well to open the gate. I will use them as backups.

I like the double action (pull, then twist) Omegas. The force required to work the barrel is still less than that for a screwlock, but the odds that it will happen in the right seqence to open the gate are long, IMO.

...

To use a screwgate, you have to physically tighten it down...I feel this is safer.

...

I don't like the Petzl ball locks. Not a fluid motion, and stick open often.

Right on the money. I agree. I've got a Petzl tri-act locker and I use it for my belay device. Everything else gets a screw lock.

hosh.

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