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c4c


Nov 7, 2006, 7:30 PM
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I think I may move to Texas.


blondgecko
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Nov 7, 2006, 7:39 PM
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I think I may move to Texas.

You frighten me. :cry:


billl7


Nov 7, 2006, 8:20 PM
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I think I may move to Texas.
I share that sentiment (edit: in a reversed sort of way). :wink:

I grew up in Western Washington state which I have since come to view as a fairly liberal state. When I moved to the SW and as I was driving through Idaho, Utah, Colorado, etc. I was in a U-Haul with nothing but the dog and the radio (family drove ahead to our knew home state). Anyway, I was dismayed that as I drove farther south there seemed to be an increasing number of christian probrams on the dial with fire-and-brimstone messages, etc.. Not long afterwards, I read the Replican Party of TX platform and I thought I was a fish out of water (or maybe a fish in a barrel?). Some but not all of that feeling has subsided.

Anyway, have learned to greatly enjoy the SW: going climbing tomorrow!! :D :D

Bill L


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Nov 7, 2006, 8:35 PM
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Curious...

If a group of Climbers for Christ prayed for Jesus to watch over them as they climbed, and to bring them home safely, but had a bad accident due to rockfall or lightning strike (aka "an act of God"), would that mean that they were forsaken by Jesus ???


billl7


Nov 7, 2006, 9:21 PM
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If a group of Climbers for Christ prayed for Jesus to watch over them as they climbed, and to bring them home safely, but had a bad accident due to rockfall or lightning strike (aka "an act of God"), would that mean that they were forsaken by Jesus ???
Ppphlllbt! That's material for 2nd grade Sunday School studies and extra credit for 1st graders.

Bill L


Partner rrrADAM


Nov 7, 2006, 9:25 PM
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If a group of Climbers for Christ prayed for Jesus to watch over them as they climbed, and to bring them home safely, but had a bad accident due to rockfall or lightning strike (aka "an act of God"), would that mean that they were forsaken by Jesus ???
Ppphlllbt! That's material for 2nd grade Sunday School studies and extra credit for 1st graders.

Bill L


What kind of answer is that ???

You answered nothing, but simply attempted to discredit my question by impying that it is beneath you.


Partner blonde_loves_bolts


Nov 7, 2006, 9:43 PM
Post #107 of 535 (5480 views)
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If a group of Climbers for Christ prayed for Jesus to watch over them as they climbed, and to bring them home safely, but had a bad accident due to rockfall or lightning strike (aka "an act of God"), would that mean that they were forsaken by Jesus ???
Ppphlllbt! That's material for 2nd grade Sunday School studies and extra credit for 1st graders.

Bill L


What kind of answer is that ???

You answered nothing, but simply attempted to discredit my question by impying that it is beneath you.

He's probably just feeling insecure because your signature just told him he's an idiot.


annak


Nov 7, 2006, 10:32 PM
Post #108 of 535 (5480 views)
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Off-topic, but ever since I first heard about the existence of "Climbers for Christ", I have been wondering, are there also

Kayakers for Christ,
BASE jumpers for Christ,
Marathon runners for Christ,
Violin players fro Christ,
etc. etc.

Or is climbing community unique in this respect?

I have no doubt that there are religious bikers and snorkelers out there, but do any of them SNORKEL FOR CHRIST?


I just don't get it.

You are a Christian? Good for you!

Your religion permeates every aspect of your life? Enjoy it!

So why single out CLIMBING as the activity "for Christ"? Why not Toothbrushing for Christ?

Awesome, lena_chita, I love it! How about:

Eating for Christ
Drinking for Christ
F***ing for Christ


c4c


Nov 8, 2006, 3:51 AM
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In reply to:
If a group of Climbers for Christ prayed for Jesus to watch over them as they climbed, and to bring them home safely, but had a bad accident due to rockfall or lightning strike (aka "an act of God"), would that mean that they were forsaken by Jesus ???
Ppphlllbt! That's material for 2nd grade Sunday School studies and extra credit for 1st graders.

Bill L


What kind of answer is that ???

You answered nothing, but simply attempted to discredit my question by impying that it is beneath you.

He's probably just feeling insecure because your signature just told him he's an idiot.
And what does your sig tell me about myself blondie? -I like it btw.
rrradam-good question. Christians believe that God sometimes allows accidents to come into our lives. If He does allow an accident to happen then it is for our good. Christians believe that God works all things together for good. Granted that is rather hard to understand in the midst of the storm. Does that answer the question?


c4c


Nov 8, 2006, 3:59 AM
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Did I get the extra credit?????


healyje


Nov 8, 2006, 4:51 AM
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The Christian future is hardly "promising." It's frankly bleak.

Jay

Maybe there are gods if we've stumbled on a topic where I agree with jt512 and slablizard...


robbovius


Nov 8, 2006, 5:38 AM
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In reply to:
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If a group of Climbers for Christ prayed for Jesus to watch over them as they climbed, and to bring them home safely, but had a bad accident due to rockfall or lightning strike (aka "an act of God"), would that mean that they were forsaken by Jesus ???
Ppphlllbt! That's material for 2nd grade Sunday School studies and extra credit for 1st graders.

Bill L


What kind of answer is that ???

You answered nothing, but simply attempted to discredit my question by impying that it is beneath you.

He's probably just feeling insecure because your signature just told him he's an idiot.
And what does your sig tell me about myself blondie? -I like it btw.
rrradam-good question. Christians believe that God sometimes allows accidents to come into our lives. If He does allow an accident to happen then it is for our good. Christians believe that God works all things together for good. Granted that is rather hard to understand in the midst of the storm. Does that answer the question?

that's not hard to understand if you rephrase it as "what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger" ;-)

there is no growth without pain, physically, emotionally, or spritually.


overlord


Nov 8, 2006, 5:56 AM
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there is no growth without pain, physically, emotionally, or spritually.

i beg to differ.

there definitely is growth withouth the things you mentioned when im getting a BJ :P


billl7


Nov 8, 2006, 6:22 AM
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If a group of Climbers for Christ prayed for Jesus to watch over them as they climbed, and to bring them home safely, but had a bad accident due to rockfall or lightning strike (aka "an act of God"), would that mean that they were forsaken by Jesus ???
Ppphlllbt! That's material for 2nd grade Sunday School studies and extra credit for 1st graders.
What kind of answer is that ???

You answered nothing, but simply attempted to discredit my question by impying that it is beneath you.
I'm not really qualified to answer. But I also don't see the point of the question. I mean, I don't give my kids everything they ask for. And I can imagine that at some point I might decide that one of them should die for some greater good - seems unlikely though.

Sorry for the 'raspberry'.

Bill L


htotsu


Nov 8, 2006, 6:30 AM
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Bill and Slab, you are both missing my point. Slab, you just equated "religious right" with "you Christians," when I very specifically pointed out that they are not the same thing. Bill, I am at work and do not have time to check out your link yet, but I will. That said, I think it's sad that you will only look at the one I posted if I promise to look at the one you posted. Regardless of the Republican party platform, my point is that it does not itself represent Christianity. Republicans do not have a singular claim on Christ. Republicans using Christianity or saying they are Christians or putting forth what they call a Christian agenda in no way makes all Christians Republicans.

Dannon is yogurt, but not all yogurt is Dannon. Get it? The "religous right" saying they're Christians does not make all Christians part of the "religious right."

I am a Christian, and I did not vote for Bush. In either election. And I am not alone. Bush's saying he's a Christian does not magically make me agree with him. There are conservatives who are not Christians, so obviously the stance of the "religious right" is not restricted to Christians. They just get a snazzy, alliterative title. Furthermore, there are Christians in the center and on the left that you just don't hear about much because the "religious right" gets a lot of press and includes a lot of very vocal people. But they do not own Christ, they do not own my faith, and they do not own my vote.


robbovius


Nov 8, 2006, 6:46 AM
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there is no growth without pain, physically, emotionally, or spritually.

i beg to differ.

there definitely is growth withouth the things you mentioned when im getting a BJ :P

ahh, yes, "point" taken ;-)


Partner blonde_loves_bolts


Nov 8, 2006, 6:57 AM
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If a group of Climbers for Christ prayed for Jesus to watch over them as they climbed, and to bring them home safely, but had a bad accident due to rockfall or lightning strike (aka "an act of God"), would that mean that they were forsaken by Jesus ???
Ppphlllbt! That's material for 2nd grade Sunday School studies and extra credit for 1st graders.

Bill L


What kind of answer is that ???

You answered nothing, but simply attempted to discredit my question by impying that it is beneath you.

He's probably just feeling insecure because your signature just told him he's an idiot.
And what does your sig tell me about myself blondie? -I like it btw.

That you have a sense of humor. :wink:

And thank you - I aim to please.


billl7


Nov 8, 2006, 7:11 AM
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htotsu, maybe we are not so far apart in our thinking on Bush - maybe.

Bush does not represent Christianity but in a simplistic sense he is a product of it. He certainly believes he is a Chirstian ans so we see politically voiced words/phrases like: we're on a "crusade" and "it's our calling" and they are "evil." Also simplistically, the religious folks in TX have furthered his rise to his current office. No, republicans do not have a singular claim on Christ but there is a very very strong link as evidenced in the TX Republican platform.

And I don't think the democrats have a corner on things. It's more like the lesser of 2 evils so to speak (not that I generally think of folks as evil).

My main point: Christianity by its nature divides people. All are on one side or the other side of the fence. God is on 1 side and will abhore the other for eternity. Yes? I think that approach worked when strength in numbers mattered for survival of a group in the wilderness but the world is much more crowded and so Christianity is very outdated.

I'll admit that I was surprised to hear a vocal Christian at work yesterday say she voted for Kerry and wore black for 2 days after that election. So I was indeed tending to lump it all into one bag as I had assumed she would vote otherwise. Still, there is that fence I mentioned above.

Time to head into the mountains.

Bill L


ericbeyeler


Nov 8, 2006, 7:36 AM
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Increasing the signal-to-noise ratio...
I am a Christian.
I am a climber.
I live in south-central PA.
Look me up.

Eric

p.s. I am also celebrating the recent election results :)


Partner rrrADAM


Nov 8, 2006, 9:03 AM
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Christianity by its nature divides people.


I personally think Jesus would have a problem with this... The path he walked was not one of division, but instead unity, love, and compassion.

Man by nature looks for differences in people, rather than for the similarities, and religion is just another excuse to do so.




Most "Christians" do a terrible job of walking in the footsteps of their prophet, and even judge people in the name of a man who taught not to judge... Ironic, isn't it ??? :?

I think Jesus would shake his head in disgust if he were here to see what people have done to his message.





On a final note...
Atheism is a non-prophet organization. :wink:


c4c


Nov 8, 2006, 10:10 AM
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Christianity by its nature divides people.


I personally think Jesus would have a problem with this... The path he walked was not one of division, but instead unity, love, and compassion.

Man by nature looks for differences in people, rather than for the similarities, and religion is just another excuse to do so.




Most "Christians" do a terrible job of walking in the footsteps of their prophet, and even judge people in the name of a man who taught not to judge... Ironic, isn't it ??? :?

I think Jesus would shake his head in disgust if he were here to see what people have done to his message.





On a final note...
Atheism is a non-prophet organization. :wink:

words from the prophet Jesus himself

Luke 12:49-54 (New Living Translation)
New Living Translation (NLT)
Holy Bible. New Living Translation copyright © 1996, 2004 by Tyndale Charitable Trust. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers.



Jesus Causes Division
49 “I have come to set the world on fire, and I wish it were already burning! 50 I have a terrible baptism of suffering ahead of me, and I am under a heavy burden until it is accomplished. 51 Do you think I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I have come to divide people against each other! 52 From now on families will be split apart, three in favor of me, and two against—or two in favor and three against.
53 ‘Father will be divided against son
and son against father;
mother against daughter
and daughter against mother;
and mother-in-law against daughter-in-law
and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.’”

54 Then Jesus turned to the crowd and said, “When you see clouds beginning to form in the west, you say, ‘Here comes a shower.’ And you are right.

non-prophet :lol: :lol:


captiancareless


Nov 8, 2006, 10:19 AM
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Why would a omnipotent, omniscient spirit being need someone to climb for them or do anything for them?

It would not.

It seems to me there would be another motive for your organization. Like introducing people to your beliefs. This to me seems dishonest.

Also why would the above mentioned spirit being want spineless, groveling, subjects that always prostrate themselves and bow down to something they themselves cannot see , just so they can "store up treasures in heaven"?

Both perspectives from the servant to the master seem selfish.

Mind you I think there's nothing wrong with selfish. ~bob~


coloredchalker


Nov 8, 2006, 11:02 AM
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Hi - if you personally want to climb for Christ, great, more power to you.

But as far as missions go, please don't tell other people what and how to believe. It's embarassing and demeaning for everybody involved. I couldn't even imagine someone going to Thailand to climb and telling those great people with their fantastic culture who to pray to.

Seriously.

In reply to:
go climb for yourself!

In reply to:
Get a free google group for this crap.

Yeah, you all are some bright ones. "please don't tell others what and how to believe". Yet you're more than willing to tell others what to do and how to act, and what to believe. Love the double standard, keep up the good work!!! I'm going to keep telling people they should climb for Christ, that way at least it keeps us even and we can agree on something.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

so you want to tell me what I should NOT do? you're definitely brighter than me!

Yeah, actually I'm not telling you what do I'm just telling how inconsitent it is for someone to say things like "go climb for yourself", "don't tell other people what to believe", etc. When in fact that is doing the very thing they are telling other people not to do.

I'm mearly telling you what I'm going to continue doing. :)

How was I telling you what you should NOT do aside from saying indirectly that you should contradict yourself :? :? :? .


leezerdgirl


Nov 8, 2006, 1:33 PM
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Oh lordy.

Christians on a climbing mission aren't that different from those resort people who offer you a free vacation if you'll come listen to the sales pitch. As long as the terms of the deal are clear up front, people have every right to make their own choices. If you're so well off it's not worth it to you, bully for you. If you have more modest means, it might be a very welcome opportunity.

You could argue that it's unfair to take advantage of desperate people who have no other means to get the help the Christians are offering. This is more of a gray area, kind of like sweat shops--but go back to that assumption there's no other way to get the help. Sure it would be better if the help came in a perfect package, bright and shiny with no strings attached, but the world is rarely like that.

Now, the case of Christians denying people access to public resources unless they pray? Bad behavior, no question. I suppose some Christians would say the ends justify the means, i.e. it's okay to play dirty in order to save a soul. But the climb-for-christ people here aren't doing that, they're just trying to connect with each other. I'm a shameless heathen but I have no problem with that. RC.com is a public resource, and I wouldn't deny it to any group of climbers, Christian, fundamentalist Islamic, convicted felons, people in spandex, whomever.

Edited to add: btw, I agree with keeping your god out of my politics. I think the separation of church and state is a damn fine idea. Yes, we elected an insane president who is influenced by a particularly distasteful branch of Christianity. But now we've just ousted a good number of the right-wing loonies in Congress like Santorum. That's the beauty of our system--it's self-correcting. Don't want Christians in your bedroom? Vote them out of your capitol. Kicking them off your climbing forum, however, is a tad bit fascist, don't you think?


pinktricam


Nov 8, 2006, 1:38 PM
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... sounds like good times.
definatly ignore the trolls.
good to see a fair amouint of Christians here on RC.com
Amen :!:

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