Forums: Clubs: Mental Training: The Rock Warrior's Way:
top roping is stoopid...
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Mental Training: The Rock Warrior's Way

Premier Sponsor:

 


harihari


Nov 19, 2006, 12:13 AM
Post #1 of 59 (17154 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 6, 2004
Posts: 181

top roping is stoopid...
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (6 ratings)  
Can't Post

Ok, what do you all think? I have watched myself and others climb things on TR. I notice two things:

a) top-roping makes us do moves in ways which would never work on lead. IE laybacking super thin tips cracks-- you would never do this cos you could never place proper gear.

b) top roping makes us stop thinking about moves and risk and makes us climb inefficiently.

I made this resolution some years ago-- if a route takes gear, I will only lead it. I will not top-rope. I woudl rather risk falls on trad gear than top-rope, because I find that it is only leading which focusses and clearsw my head an dmakes me really step into it.

Obviosuly I have not climbed grit death routes where there is zero room for errror! It's not like I'm a hardman or anything, but I was wondering, what do you think for telling beginners? We always say "oh top-ropes tons of stuff!" I say, bag that-- soon as you can, start on the sharp end.


coastal_climber


Nov 20, 2006, 5:09 PM
Post #2 of 59 (17126 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 16, 2006
Posts: 2542

Re: [harihari] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Very good analogy. I myself prefer leading over TR. I find that it changes the whole aspect of the climb, or climbing. For someone starting out, I would personally recommend TR, as it teaches the basics of moving up the route.

I went from TR(inside) to lead(inside), then to TR(outside), then lead (outside) in one year, and I really learned a lot. I guess its also what you personally want to do.

>Cam


zeke_sf


Nov 21, 2006, 4:52 PM
Post #3 of 59 (17107 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 28, 2006
Posts: 18730

Re: [harihari] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

I think climbing is a big enough game to accomodate both top ropers as well as leaders. I waited to lead and it has definitely taken a bigger effort to get my lead head proper. not having a real mentor when I started out, I kind of learned to climb by trial and error, so toproping was a good venue for that.

the other day at a local crag, I saw a guy who took leading WAY too lightly. he was cimbing up to the first bolt as if he was on toprope already, making big, dynamic moves that were as likely to end with him slipping as making the clip. the fall would have been an ugly roll down a steep gully. his belayer and I got him to slow down and actually use plentiful hand and footholds he was passing up in favor of blind flailing. I guess his response to anxiety, unlike mine, is to go even faster and more uncontrolled. he eventually got to the first bolt and up the climb, but it seemed as if he had no concept of the risks he put himself (and belayer) through. he told me it was one of his first sport climbs and I know his belayer was less experienced than he.

all's well that ends well? we all get in over our heads sometimes, but I think beginners should know the risks associated with all forms of climbing, especially those inherent to climbing up to the first bolt/placement.

other than that, I think leading as much as possible is an admirable goal, although I definitely don't turn down a toprope if it's convenient and I'm having a "high gravity" day.


hangerlessbolt


Nov 28, 2006, 1:24 AM
Post #4 of 59 (17039 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 2, 2001
Posts: 7255

Re: [zeke_sf] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (6 ratings)  
Can't Post

As long as you don't TR my lead and then tell me how easy it was...I won't ram a #10 hex up your rectum, girth-hitch your privates, and rap-bolt your forehead

Other than that...TR, lead, beat your pud...whatever...just enjoy being where you are, doing what you're doing


jt512


Nov 28, 2006, 5:13 PM
Post #5 of 59 (17022 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 21893

Re: [harihari] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (7 ratings)  
Can't Post

harihari wrote:
Ok, what do you all think? I have watched myself and others climb things on TR. I notice two things:

a) top-roping makes us do moves in ways which would never work on lead. IE laybacking super thin tips cracks-- you would never do this cos you could never place proper gear.

b) top roping makes us stop thinking about moves and risk and makes us climb inefficiently.

Many climbers make these same claims, but for me, if anything, it has always been the other way around: on toprope I find it easier to stay focused on the climbing; after all, what else is there to focus on? And if I'm more focused on the climbing, I'm more likely to be more focused on climbing more efficiently; after all, what else about climbing is there to focus on?

You claim that TRing you do moves that you wouldn't do on lead. Your example (the layback moves) notwithstanding, are you sure that you're not climbing too cautiously on lead. Maybe on TR you are willing to do thinner, dicier, or more dynamic moves; whereas, on lead, you look for less risky ways to climb the same section of the route. Perhaps you even mistakenly believe the latter to the be the more efficient approach of the two. Usually, it isn't. One of the big breakthroughs in my climbing came when I realized that the riskier, more more dynamic climbing I would do while TRing actually was the more efficient way to climb, and I started to strive to to climb the same way on lead.

Jay


saxfiend


Nov 30, 2006, 8:58 AM
Post #6 of 59 (16999 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 30, 2004
Posts: 1208

Re: [jt512] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

jt512 wrote:
Many climbers make these same claims, but for me, if anything, it has always been the other way around: on toprope I find it easier to stay focused on the climbing; after all, what else is there to focus on? And if I'm more focused on the climbing, I'm more likely to be more focused on climbing more efficiently; after all, what else about climbing is there to focus on?

You claim that TRing you do moves that you wouldn't do on lead. Your example (the layback moves) notwithstanding, are you sure that you're not climbing too cautiously on lead. Maybe on TR you are willing to do thinner, dicier, or more dynamic moves; whereas, on lead, you look for less risky ways to climb the same section of the route. Perhaps you even mistakenly believe the latter to the be the more efficient approach of the two. Usually, it isn't. One of the big breakthroughs in my climbing came when I realized that the riskier, more more dynamic climbing I would do while TRing actually was the more efficient way to climb, and I started to strive to to climb the same way on lead.

Jay
Nice analysis; too bad we no longer have trophies.

JL


arnoilgner


Dec 5, 2006, 9:04 PM
Post #7 of 59 (16953 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 7, 2003
Posts: 366

Re: [harihari] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Hi harihari,
Your comments:
a) top-roping makes us do moves in ways which would never work on lead. IE laybacking super thin tips cracks-- you would never do this cos you could never place proper gear.

b) top roping makes us stop thinking about moves and risk and makes us climb inefficiently.
-----------
I think toproping can make us sloppy or efficient. Depends on us and what we focus on. I do feel that beginners should lead as soon as possible, if that is something they eventually want to do. I say this because leaders are more attentive to the risks they take. I think this is also what you are suggesting.
However, you cannot lead everything. What will you do on a multi pitch? Will you force your partner to follow each pitch or will you swap leads?

arno


kydd76


Dec 8, 2006, 9:56 AM
Post #8 of 59 (16934 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 16, 2005
Posts: 228

Re: [arnoilgner] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I think you can get a lot out of top roping. I do feel leading is the best, and try to lead as much as I can. But feel there is a lot to learn in TR, first you can learn moves you would never try on lead. For fear of fall, bad pro or just trying something totally new to you in movement. I have a lot of respect for head pointing I have used this technique to do highball problems on many occasions. I also like TRing when ice climbing. It takes a lot of stress out of my mind when ice climbing, which for me can be high when at new area, or do to bad ice. I have also found myself leading, when I will use a movement I learned on TR. I personally have found TR to be a great learning tool. Plus it is fun to climb with little stress do to fear of falling.


jt512


Dec 8, 2006, 9:38 PM
Post #9 of 59 (16920 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 21893

Re: [kydd76] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

kydd76 wrote:
I think you can get a lot out of top roping. I do feel leading is the best, and try to lead as much as I can. But feel there is a lot to learn in TR, first you can learn moves you would never try on lead. For fear of fall, bad pro or just trying something totally new to you in movement. I have a lot of respect for head pointing I have used this technique to do highball problems on many occasions. I also like TRing when ice climbing. It takes a lot of stress out of my mind when ice climbing, which for me can be high when at new area, or do to bad ice. I have also found myself leading, when I will use a movement I learned on TR. I personally have found TR to be a great learning tool. Plus it is fun to climb with little stress do to fear of falling.

Your profile shows a one number-grade difference between your sport TR and lead levels. Re-read my post. Any move you can do on TR you can do on lead. This is an important concept to internalize.

Jay


kydd76


Dec 10, 2006, 8:40 AM
Post #10 of 59 (16906 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 16, 2005
Posts: 228

Re: [jt512] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Jt512 you are right, if you can TR with out falling are hanging you can lead it. But you as well as I know it is easier to say than to do in practice. Since when leading there are many more thing going on at once, in action i.e. clipping, rope drag, rest, or mostly the real crux when climbing the head game. When on TR I climb trying new things, thinking about things like where is best rest and making movements smooth or dynamic. Which was the point I was making, TR is a great learning tool. As with my profile, I donít lead much past 11b/c on sight sport, yet I have been able to pull 12a on TR on a few routes. I would not say I flashed them even if I didnít fall or hang on the rope, so I would say onsight TR, which is not even like a lead. Hard, grueling, pump fests for me, so I felt they helped me learn new skills none the less. Second is every one I have climbed had skill set they are better at, cracks, slabs, faces, overhang, and on and on. I think when you find yourself out of the comfort zone, most people climb less than at there best grade. Since other mental thoughts come in to play, fears, lack of focus, are something as simple as holding your breath. All these things will make you climbing less than your best most of the time. I do think you are right with the thought that I could lead sport better. If I was to get comfortable with the idea, I can do it on TR, so there for I can lead it. I thank you for the support, and thought.


verticon


Feb 13, 2007, 1:14 AM
Post #11 of 59 (16647 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 22, 2005
Posts: 223

Re: [jt512] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

jt512 wrote:
...on toprope I find it easier to stay focused on the climbing; after all, what else is there to focus on? And if I'm more focused on the climbing, I'm more likely to be more focused on climbing more efficiently; after all, what else about climbing is there to focus on?

This is one of my excuses...
I claim to be motivated by the movement on the rock, by solving problems that apear while climbing.
So, when I want to climb a route I get that thought: what's the point in leading ? The movements will be the same, the problems will not change and it's more enjoyable to climb without having to stop to clip bolts or to drag that "heavy" rope.
So, sometimes I end up TR-ing.
I really have to kick myself to start leading the route, and once I am on lead everything goes smooth. I just "enjoy the journey". It seems that it's just difficult to quit my comfort zone (top rope).


arnoilgner


Feb 13, 2007, 5:54 AM
Post #12 of 59 (16640 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 7, 2003
Posts: 366

Re: [verticon] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

hi verticon.
your comment: what's the point in leading ? The movements will be the same, the problems will not change.
--
the problem solving is much different because the consequence has changed. because of this you are much more attentive to how you climb and how you commit, both of which are critical parts of problem solving.
with that said, of course there is benefit in toproping. it really boils down to if we value learning, which only occurs outside our comfort zones, or if we just want to stay within our comfort zones. if we are honest with ourselves about this then we can learn while leading or toproping.
arno


verticon


Feb 15, 2007, 8:06 AM
Post #13 of 59 (16618 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 22, 2005
Posts: 223

Re: [arnoilgner] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

arnoilgner wrote:
hi verticon.
your comment: what's the point in leading ? The movements will be the same, the problems will not change.
--
the problem solving is much different because the consequence has changed. because of this you are much more attentive to how you climb and how you commit, both of which are critical parts of problem solving.
with that said, of course there is benefit in toproping. it really boils down to if we value learning, which only occurs outside our comfort zones, or if we just want to stay within our comfort zones. if we are honest with ourselves about this then we can learn while leading or toproping.
arno

I'm perfectly aware of the differences. I was speaking about the way my Ego (dragon-with-one-thousand-heads...) is sometimes rising a head to whisper in my mind: don't lead, it's gonna be hard, just TR it, it's nearly the same and more enjoyable.


fearlessclimber


Feb 18, 2007, 7:26 AM
Post #14 of 59 (16585 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 27, 2005
Posts: 474

Re: [verticon] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (8 ratings)  
Can't Post

lead climbing is what makes a man, toproping is lame


verticon


Feb 20, 2007, 2:32 PM
Post #15 of 59 (16545 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 22, 2005
Posts: 223

Re: [fearlessclimber] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

fearlessclimber wrote:
lead climbing is what makes a man, toproping is lame

Oh, yeah ?!
Here's something from your profile that shows a big difference between your level on lead and on TR:

Trad: 5.11a 5.11d
Ice: WI4 WI5
Aid: A3+ A5
Snow: D TD

Explain that, you MAN !


curt


Feb 20, 2007, 6:01 PM
Post #16 of 59 (16542 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 18234

Re: [verticon] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Obviously, he's not yet a man.Wink

Curt


crimpergirl


Feb 25, 2007, 7:52 AM
Post #17 of 59 (16450 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 10, 2004
Posts: 1128

Re: [curt] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

Well, I've been leading for almost a decade now and I'm no man. Thank God.


verticon


Feb 25, 2007, 9:38 AM
Post #18 of 59 (16442 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 22, 2005
Posts: 223

Re: [crimpergirl] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

crimpergirl wrote:
Well, I've been leading for almost a decade now and I'm no man. Thank God.
I've been leading for 2 1/2 decades now, i'm no girl (Thank God), I still TR sometimes, and I expect to find useful comments when I visit the RWW forum. Let me remind you, we were discussing whether or not TR is "stoopid". What do you think ? Do you TR sometimes ? When and why ? What's your opinion on this subject ?
Let us learn from your "almost a decade" vast experience !
Thank you !


crimpergirl


Feb 25, 2007, 10:42 AM
Post #19 of 59 (16438 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 10, 2004
Posts: 1128

Re: [verticon] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Verticon:

I was responding to the poster above who said that leading makes a man. Clearly, and luckily, leading doesn't make a man. This is what my 'vast' experience tells me.

As far as whether toproping is stupid, I don't think so. There are many ways one can enjoy and gain positive experiences from climbing. I personally would never suggest one is stupid while another isn't. But I also wouldn't be bothered if someone else expressed their opinion.

Is this informative enough for a post in the Rock Warrior's forum? Was it more informative than suggesting that leading makes a man? If I have failed in the informative-only-test, please forward the posting criteria to me and I will adhere to these policies in the future.

edit: My "thank god" comment was not intended to be an insult to being a man. It only represented that I would be a really creepy man, breasts and all.

edit2: I didn't respond to one of your questions. Do I toprope? Heck yeah I toprope sometimes. In fact, the most pleasing climbing I've ever done was a multipitch climb in which I followed every single pitch. Read about it here: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=255575&msg=255575#msg255575. I also followed every single pitch when we climbed at Whitesides (more cool photos here: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=313825&msg=314098#msg314098). I also top roped a lot after I broke my arm. Like I mentioned above, I feel there is nothing wrong with toproping for myself. But I don't speak for everyone and I certainly don't wish to set criteria for anyone but myself.


(This post was edited by crimpergirl on Feb 25, 2007, 10:56 AM)


curt


Feb 25, 2007, 5:13 PM
Post #20 of 59 (16421 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 18234

Re: [crimpergirl] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

crimpergirl wrote:
...Do I toprope? Heck yeah I toprope sometimes. In fact, the most pleasing climbing I've ever done was a multipitch climb in which I followed every single pitch...

Just a minor point here--that's not really top-roping.Cool

Curt


crimpergirl


Feb 25, 2007, 5:14 PM
Post #21 of 59 (16419 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 10, 2004
Posts: 1128

Re: [curt] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Ah Curt, maybe that is why I've not become a man yet. Crazy


dredsovrn


Feb 26, 2007, 3:12 PM
Post #22 of 59 (16400 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 24, 2003
Posts: 1226

Re: [harihari] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I was against top roping for a time when I first started leading. I don't really have a rule for it anymore. I essentially top rope when I follow a pitch. If you have a good partner, you can't lead everything.

Sometimes I top rope a route for fun. The rope is there, and I don't feel invested in the lead. Sometimes it is fun to throw a rope on a climb that I think is well outside my current range so I can just focus on the movement, and maybe get stronger.


curt


Feb 27, 2007, 6:46 PM
Post #23 of 59 (16377 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 18234

Re: [crimpergirl] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

crimpergirl wrote:
Ah Curt, maybe that is why I've not become a man yet. Crazy

...probably not a bad thing, unless that's your goal.

Curt


crimpergirl


Feb 27, 2007, 6:49 PM
Post #24 of 59 (16375 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 10, 2004
Posts: 1128

Re: [curt] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I agree! Not trying to be a man.

I continue to be happy that after almost a decade of leading (aka 'vast experience'), I have not become a man. Thank God. Wink


amikros


Mar 7, 2007, 11:36 AM
Post #25 of 59 (16292 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 18, 2006
Posts: 109

Re: [harihari] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

to be fair, i only TR because I've been climbing once a week for two hours at best, for about four months now. TR is really the only way I can learn rigt now...

that and if someone had me lead the first time I climbed, instead of TR, I would have just untied and hiked back to the car...Crazy


dropkicked


Sep 11, 2007, 10:57 PM
Post #26 of 59 (11888 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 18, 2006
Posts: 28

Re: [harihari] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

When I first started climbing harder grades I was all for the lead but every move I seemed to do was small and extremely static for fear of peeling off and in turn innificient with many more lock offs and clipping high bolts from way down. Eventually I began to try a couple of routes on TR, after I had sent the route in order to clean it. I found many better ways to do moves and forced myself to use those moves on lead making myself more confident and more efficient on rock. As for those who say it is bad to lead like you are on TR, I say it is simply bad to flail on rock, and I am happy moving at about 20 moves per minute during actual climbing time (excluding route finding and rests).


desertwanderer81


Oct 10, 2007, 10:14 PM
Post #27 of 59 (11791 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 5, 2007
Posts: 2272

Re: [dropkicked] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

to each their own.

There is definately something to be said of getting in the zone in a great lead.

Then again there's something to be said on just relaxing and TR'ing something insanely hard.

Whatever you like best and are in the mood for at the time.


ZackP


Oct 12, 2007, 2:02 AM
Post #28 of 59 (11781 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 10, 2007
Posts: 70

Re: [desertwanderer81] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I started TRing and moved on to leading from there. Which do i prefer Leading but both are great in their own way. Running with a group sometimes you have to do some TRing to warm up or so the less mature climbers can get theirs too ya know. So bottom line No its not stupid.


rocklobster420


Jan 31, 2008, 7:27 PM
Post #29 of 59 (11669 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 17, 2008
Posts: 14

Re: [jt512] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

jt512 wrote:
harihari wrote:
Ok, what do you all think? I have watched myself and others climb things on TR. I notice two things:

a) top-roping makes us do moves in ways which would never work on lead. IE laybacking super thin tips cracks-- you would never do this cos you could never place proper gear.

b) top roping makes us stop thinking about moves and risk and makes us climb inefficiently.

Many climbers make these same claims, but for me, if anything, it has always been the other way around: on toprope I find it easier to stay focused on the climbing; after all, what else is there to focus on? And if I'm more focused on the climbing, I'm more likely to be more focused on climbing more efficiently; after all, what else about climbing is there to focus on?

You claim that TRing you do moves that you wouldn't do on lead. Your example (the layback moves) notwithstanding, are you sure that you're not climbing too cautiously on lead. Maybe on TR you are willing to do thinner, dicier, or more dynamic moves; whereas, on lead, you look for less risky ways to climb the same section of the route. Perhaps you even mistakenly believe the latter to the be the more efficient approach of the two. Usually, it isn't. One of the big breakthroughs in my climbing came when I realized that the riskier, more more dynamic climbing I would do while TRing actually was the more efficient way to climb, and I started to strive to to climb the same way on lead.

I completely agree with you, and that was my first thought. The other weekend I lead a 5.9 slab route (dont hate, still learning), this route was about 120 feet up where as there were only 4 bolts and it was waaaay run out. I lead it first and I was kinda sketched out but eventually finished it. The second time I TRed' it and for about half the climb I simply crawled up it with a flat hand and no looking at foot placement, which I certainly wouldnt have done on lead possibly pending a 20-30 foot grinding slab fall. So I definitely agree with you, when I TR I get more dialed in, rather than on a lead I try and avoid brazen stuff and take my time.


rocklobster420


Jan 31, 2008, 7:41 PM
Post #30 of 59 (11666 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 17, 2008
Posts: 14

Re: [dropkicked] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

dropkicked wrote:
When I first started climbing harder grades I was all for the lead but every move I seemed to do was small and extremely static for fear of peeling off and in turn innificient with many more lock offs and clipping high bolts from way down. Eventually I began to try a couple of routes on TR, after I had sent the route in order to clean it. I found many better ways to do moves and forced myself to use those moves on lead making myself more confident and more efficient on rock. As for those who say it is bad to lead like you are on TR, I say it is simply bad to flail on rock, and I am happy moving at about 20 moves per minute during actual climbing time (excluding route finding and rests).

Those are my sentiments as well. The fear of screwing up a Lead, to me, outweighs the fear of screwing up a TR(not just because of the danger factor). You can TR a route that you have lead and find out beta that you didnt know before, hence making your lead climbing more efficient. Now Im at the stage where I can lead some good stuff, but if I top rope it later, then lead again, the lead becomes more comfortable. Not just the fact I have more experience on that specific climb, but also I feel more comfortable doing the specific moves on lead as I did on TR. I hope this makes sense to someone other than me LOL. If you are at a point where you can make questionable moves on lead, or do the same moves you would on TR while leading, then you are at another level past what Im describing.


billcoe_


Jan 31, 2008, 10:07 PM
Post #31 of 59 (11655 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 30, 2002
Posts: 4668

Re: [hangerlessbolt] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

hangerlessbolt wrote:
As long as you don't TR my lead and then tell me how easy it was...I won't ram a #10 hex up your rectum, girth-hitch your privates, and rap-bolt your forehead

Other than that...TR, lead, beat your pud...whatever...just enjoy being where you are, doing what you're doing

Roberto: toooo funny!


acacongua


Feb 10, 2008, 6:42 AM
Post #32 of 59 (11481 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 14, 2003
Posts: 657

Re: [billcoe_] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Anyone who just prefers to TR, should do that - provided they have a nice rope gun.

My footwork is better on lead, but I love to do TR laps at the end of the day.


Kevthecoffeeguy


Jan 24, 2010, 9:06 AM
Post #33 of 59 (7727 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 13, 2010
Posts: 149

Re: [crimpergirl] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

crimpergirl wrote:
Verticon:

I was responding to the poster above who said that leading makes a man. Clearly, and luckily, leading doesn't make a man. This is what my 'vast' experience tells me.

As far as whether toproping is stupid, I don't think so. There are many ways one can enjoy and gain positive experiences from climbing. I personally would never suggest one is stupid while another isn't. But I also wouldn't be bothered if someone else expressed their opinion.

Is this informative enough for a post in the Rock Warrior's forum? Was it more informative than suggesting that leading makes a man? If I have failed in the informative-only-test, please forward the posting criteria to me and I will adhere to these policies in the future.

edit: My "thank god" comment was not intended to be an insult to being a man. It only represented that I would be a really creepy man, breasts and all.

edit2: I didn't respond to one of your questions. Do I toprope? Heck yeah I toprope sometimes. In fact, the most pleasing climbing I've ever done was a multipitch climb in which I followed every single pitch. Read about it here: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=255575&msg=255575#msg255575. I also followed every single pitch when we climbed at Whitesides (more cool photos here: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=313825&msg=314098#msg314098). I also top roped a lot after I broke my arm. Like I mentioned above, I feel there is nothing wrong with toproping for myself. But I don't speak for everyone and I certainly don't wish to set criteria for anyone but myself.
I really like your attitude! and your candor.


mar_leclerc


Feb 11, 2010, 10:38 PM
Post #34 of 59 (7572 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 31, 2008
Posts: 156

Re: [Kevthecoffeeguy] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Leading is by far the best. More engaging and commiting. If the gear is good I will go for it on lead, or if it is of a grade I can manage sketchy pro on the OS. If I am working some 5.13 X I am going to TR hands down, I will fall off, and I don't like dying.


kickasssoprano


Jul 22, 2010, 9:40 AM
Post #35 of 59 (7273 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 16, 2010
Posts: 53

Re: [harihari] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I think toproping can be really useful for leading, not just figuring out beta, but for helping you to feel more confidant-
I have HUGE fear problems with leading and if I can successfully toprope a route, I'm more likely to be able to lead it successfully because my brain knows it's possible and that I've done it before. Also, if I'm having a really bad lead day, I can toprope something really hard and then not feel like such a lame-o anymore.


punk_rocker333


Aug 29, 2010, 4:41 PM
Post #36 of 59 (7197 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 9, 2004
Posts: 387

Re: [kickasssoprano] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

When reading this post I was surprised to see the number of people down playing the importance of TR ing routes. I for one think that for crack climbing it is an important tool in the learning process. My first trip to Indian Creek really would have been a lot less enjoyable and less conducive to learning if not for toproping. Ring locks, cupped hands, off fists, stacking (etc) are techniques that feel so unnatural at first for most climbers that learning on top rope is nearly the only way to get a feel for crack areas like indian creek where technique is so important. Also, at the end of a day of climbing, why not take another run on TR to get your forearms burning one last time? It will only lead to more strength in the long run.


spikeddem


Aug 29, 2010, 4:59 PM
Post #37 of 59 (7191 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 27, 2007
Posts: 6319

Re: [punk_rocker333] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

punk_rocker333 wrote:
Also, at the end of a day of climbing, why not take another run on TR to get your forearms burning one last time? It will only lead to more strength in the long run.

Because it is a more efficient use of your time to do it on lead. It's not like you're not going to get the same burn doing it on lead, and you will only help yourself to better acclimate to being on the sharp while pumped. Getting pumped on top-rope does very little to help your mental game when you're pumped on lead.


punk_rocker333


Aug 29, 2010, 9:44 PM
Post #38 of 59 (7167 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 9, 2004
Posts: 387

Re: [spikeddem] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

So Spikeddem, if you led a route, lowered, and had a chance to climb it again on TR before you pulled the rope you wouldn't take that opportunity? Now imagine you're at indian creek and this climb happens to be a perfect 140 foot splitter. I don't see why you wouldn't, especially if it was a very high quality climb that would improve your strength and technique. I agree that TR differs from leading in many ways but climbing is climbing. Having a strong body is equally important in climbing as a strong mind and TRing routes will do that.


spikeddem


Aug 30, 2010, 6:21 AM
Post #39 of 59 (7157 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 27, 2007
Posts: 6319

Re: [punk_rocker333] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

punk_rocker333 wrote:
So Spikeddem, if you led a route, lowered, and had a chance to climb it again on TR before you pulled the rope you wouldn't take that opportunity? Now imagine you're at indian creek and this climb happens to be a perfect 140 foot splitter. I don't see why you wouldn't, especially if it was a very high quality climb that would improve your strength and technique. I agree that TR differs from leading in many ways but climbing is climbing. Having a strong body is equally important in climbing as a strong mind and TRing routes will do that.

It depends on what my goals are. Considering that this is being discussed in the Mental Training forum, I'd imagine that working on the mental game is the goal. That being the case, one should lead it, and not top-rope it.

Moreover, you seem to imply that one can practice technique more readily on top-rope, that is just flat wrong. Sure, it may be the case if you have issues with your lead head, but that is only providing more reason to lead your climbs rather than TR them.

I'm not sure I could disagree much more with the part that I bolded. Your statement claims that climbing is 50% physical and 50% mental (unless you want to add in luck or some other factor, but the physical and mental factors would still be equal in %). I'm afraid you won't find many people here that agree with your statement.

Fact of the matter is you have offered no reason for top-roping the climb instead of leading it. Every single "advantage" you listed is present just as much in lead climbing as it is in TRing. Thus, like I said earlier, your time is better spent leading--assuming the goals align with what I stated earlier.


punk_rocker333


Aug 30, 2010, 7:31 AM
Post #40 of 59 (7151 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 9, 2004
Posts: 387

Re: [spikeddem] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

The rock warrior's way stresses how climbing, unlike most sports, is equally divided in the need for strength, technique, and mental abilities. Anyway, I don't want to bicker anymore on this forum. I can see that we won't agree. Thanks for you views.


spikeddem


Aug 30, 2010, 7:36 AM
Post #41 of 59 (7149 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 27, 2007
Posts: 6319

Re: [punk_rocker333] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

punk_rocker333 wrote:
The rock warrior's way stresses how climbing, unlike most sports, is equally divided in the need for strength, technique, and mental abilities. Anyway, I don't want to bicker anymore on this forum. I can see that we won't agree. Thanks for you views.

Strength as important as technique? In any case, I'm not sure if you were thinking that I was saying that the mental game is a smaller portion than physical conditionining--if so, that's not how I meant to come off. I meant to suggest that the mental aspect is much greater.


suprasoup


Aug 30, 2010, 9:26 PM
Post #42 of 59 (7110 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 7, 2005
Posts: 309

Re: [spikeddem] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

spikeddem wrote:
punk_rocker333 wrote:
The rock warrior's way stresses how climbing, unlike most sports, is equally divided in the need for strength, technique, and mental abilities. Anyway, I don't want to bicker anymore on this forum. I can see that we won't agree. Thanks for you views.

Strength as important as technique? In any case, I'm not sure if you were thinking that I was saying that the mental game is a smaller portion than physical conditionining--if so, that's not how I meant to come off. I meant to suggest that the mental aspect is much greater.

Yes. We've all seen the gym noob burl his way up that 5.10 climb but have you ever seen a 5.7 climber technique his way up a 5.10? I think not. We all forget the importance of strength because most of us start out with more strength than technique and so only train technique. The further and further you go in climbing the more pronounced the need for both strength and technique.

That said in regard to the original question. I climb exactly the same whether I'm bouldering, TRing or on the sharp end. jt512 is correct, if you're climbing differently when on TR than on lead then you may not be climbing at your most efficient.

Me personally I hate leading. Perhaps it's because I'm the rope gun for everyone else. So when a good TR comes along I'm all over it.


OCD


Sep 11, 2010, 6:12 PM
Post #43 of 59 (7008 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 28, 2010
Posts: 45

Re: [harihari] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

do what Ever u want. U climb 4 U, they climb 4 themselves..climb live enjoy
In reply to:


spikeddem


Sep 13, 2010, 7:10 AM
Post #44 of 59 (6992 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 27, 2007
Posts: 6319

Re: [OCD] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

OCD wrote:
do what Ever u want. U climb 4 U, they climb 4 themselves..climb live enjoy

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that OCD, in your case, does not stand for Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.


(This post was edited by spikeddem on Sep 13, 2010, 10:52 AM)


jt512


Sep 13, 2010, 8:58 AM
Post #45 of 59 (6988 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 21893

Re: [OCD] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

OCD wrote:
do what Ever u want. U climb 4 U, they climb 4 themselves..climb live enjoy

Learn to write like an adult.

*plonk*


(This post was edited by jt512 on Sep 13, 2010, 8:58 AM)


tomtom


Sep 14, 2010, 4:16 PM
Post #46 of 59 (6942 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 9, 2004
Posts: 366

Re: [jt512] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

jt512 wrote:
OCD wrote:
do what Ever u want. U climb 4 U, they climb 4 themselves..climb live enjoy

Learn to write like an adult.

*plonk*

Learn not to judge.

*splat*


jt512


Sep 14, 2010, 5:15 PM
Post #47 of 59 (6936 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 21893

Re: [tomtom] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

tomtom wrote:
jt512 wrote:
OCD wrote:
do what Ever u want. U climb 4 U, they climb 4 themselves..climb live enjoy

Learn to write like an adult.

*plonk*

Learn not to judge.

*splat*

Well, at least I gave you three strikes.

*plonk*


(This post was edited by jt512 on Sep 14, 2010, 5:16 PM)


ceebo


Mar 20, 2011, 5:38 PM
Post #48 of 59 (6465 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 8, 2009
Posts: 862

Re: [harihari] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

harihari wrote:
Ok, what do you all think? I have watched myself and others climb things on TR. I notice two things:

a) top-roping makes us do moves in ways which would never work on lead. IE laybacking super thin tips cracks-- you would never do this cos you could never place proper gear.

b) top roping makes us stop thinking about moves and risk and makes us climb inefficiently.

I made this resolution some years ago-- if a route takes gear, I will only lead it. I will not top-rope. I woudl rather risk falls on trad gear than top-rope, because I find that it is only leading which focusses and clearsw my head an dmakes me really step into it.

Obviosuly I have not climbed grit death routes where there is zero room for errror! It's not like I'm a hardman or anything, but I was wondering, what do you think for telling beginners? We always say "oh top-ropes tons of stuff!" I say, bag that-- soon as you can, start on the sharp end.

Jay pretty much got my exact thoughts, but i feel like adding some more anyway.

Most people will not admit they hate falling or have other fears in leading that hinder their focus > performance. I admit that i do not trust my partners and my lead climbing ability is suffering for it on bigger routes. In my mind, the higher i go the more severe the consequence is if they fuck it up and fail to stop a fall. As a result if you were to watch me lead a 10m 7c i am at the top efficiently moving with no hesitation to use big dynamics. I just do not register the consequence of a fall at this height. Watch me on a 25M 6c and within 5M of the top you would instantly see how static i become, resulting in fatigue and backing down. I have took many practice falls around this height to try and overcome my fear. But the problem is that they expect the fall, my fear is that when they don't expect it they fail to react in the right way and rope burn.. fast decent.. another dead/crippled climber. The fact is, until i have the guts to face this head on and take falls at such heights when they are not expecting it.. i will not be able to climb those high routes at the grade i know I'm able to do.

I know what my problem is and I'm really forcing myself to over come it. Some people may not be able to do that just yet and TR is 1 option for them to slowly build up the guts to try.

I do kind of agree with you in some ways though. If lead climbing was the only thing you could do.. people would be forced into facing their fears much earlier. On the other hand allot of people would simply say FUCK THAT.. and not climb at all. You just cant underestImate the role TR plays in opening up the climbing world to more people, who very well go on to leading.


JoeHamilton


Aug 9, 2011, 9:55 AM
Post #49 of 59 (6010 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 15, 2011
Posts: 812

Re: [ceebo] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I got a question. Say I lead a two pitch sport route, my partner is going to follow on both pitches, I get to the top of pitch one and set anachor for myself, and begin to belay my partner, pulling in the slack as he climbs. Isn't he on a top rope? Does this make him less then me?


ceebo


Aug 15, 2011, 7:36 AM
Post #50 of 59 (5992 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 8, 2009
Posts: 862

Re: [JoeHamilton] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

JoeHamilton wrote:
I got a question. Say I lead a two pitch sport route, my partner is going to follow on both pitches, I get to the top of pitch one and set anachor for myself, and begin to belay my partner, pulling in the slack as he climbs. Isn't he on a top rope? Does this make him less then me?

Your partner is not top roping he is cleaning. It is likely he will also have to find efficient positions to clean from. In top rope their is nothing to really consider other than the next few moves.

The main differences is that a fall for him runs less risk of injury than a fall for you, the mental aspects of that are heavier on you. Another difference is that he gets to watch you climb first, so he may get sneak peaks of the best or worst way to climb the moves he was able to see you do.

If they are not on sights and you both know the routes well, then the difference will be almost fully mental. You may ofc use a little extra energy to pull the rope before clipping, but that's barely worth mentioning unless their is super drag.


(This post was edited by ceebo on Aug 15, 2011, 7:38 AM)


tolman_paul


Sep 12, 2011, 6:05 PM
Post #51 of 59 (4263 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 22, 2005
Posts: 385

Re: [harihari] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

Toproping is just another technique, to say it is stupid or should be avoided once you start leading, I just don't think that is valid. If it isn't helping you climb the way you want, then by all means stop tr'n. But I'd say that every style of free climbing can help you, weather it be bouldering, or free soloing.

Sometimes it's fun try out weird moves on a tr, I mean, climbing is still supposed to be fun, right?


Qozux


Dec 4, 2011, 11:31 PM
Post #52 of 59 (4217 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 18, 2011
Posts: 33

Re: [tolman_paul] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

I agree. I mean, what's the point of climbing for nearly everyone? It's to enjoy going up the side of something in a way that most people wouldn't think of right? Like, maybe to climb?
I'm trying to learn the lead game right now, so I don't feel comfortable comparing the two, but my goal is just to climb up something, challenge myself, and have a good time. I don't really care (yet) what style I'm doing. I'll TR, Sport, Lead (when I feel comfortable calling myself a lead climber), Boulder, Or hell IDK, build some sort of insane bubble air bag system that detects when I'm falling and cushions me from a fall (The bubble things in that terrible Speed Racer movie come to mind). Just show me a wall, let me feel like it's safeish, and I'll try and climb the damn thing.
I don't really see the point in excluding TR because it's not as good of a training tool. I don't think anyone here is actually training for a life or death situation where their climbing skills are going to save the world right? You just climb because you enjoy it, and get better because it feels like leveling up a video game character in real life.

Just my $.02.


crjanow


Jan 22, 2012, 2:08 PM
Post #53 of 59 (4020 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 17, 2008
Posts: 69

Re: [Qozux] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

i think since you believe top roping is stupid then everyone should stop doing it even if they think its really fun and thats all they care about


dagibbs


Jun 8, 2012, 9:17 AM
Post #54 of 59 (3839 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 30, 2007
Posts: 900

Re: [suprasoup] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

suprasoup wrote:
Yes. We've all seen the gym noob burl his way up that 5.10 climb but have you ever seen a 5.7 climber technique his way up a 5.10? I think not.

That's the wrong comparison.

Sure, I've seen the (physically) strong gym noob burl his way up a 5.10. I've also seen the the 65-year-old climber who is nowhere near at prime strength technique his way up a 5.10. (The old guy may be climbing 1-2 number grades below his peak, because he still has the technique, but he doesn't have the strength anymore.)

So, if you're comparing and talking about high-end strength, then you also have to talk about high-end technique.


Syd


Dec 4, 2012, 9:18 PM
Post #55 of 59 (3143 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 25, 2012
Posts: 300

Re: [dagibbs] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

So you think Chris Sharma is "stoopid" (sic) ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMWc-CKshO8


dagibbs


Dec 5, 2012, 6:39 PM
Post #56 of 59 (3134 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 30, 2007
Posts: 900

Re: [Syd] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Syd wrote:
So you think Chris Sharma is "stoopid" (sic) ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMWc-CKshO8

I think you replied to me, when you may have meant to reply to the original poster.


Syd


Dec 5, 2012, 8:04 PM
Post #57 of 59 (3131 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 25, 2012
Posts: 300

Re: [dagibbs] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

My apologies. It was meant for the thread originator.


virial


Feb 22, 2013, 7:08 PM
Post #58 of 59 (2617 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 25, 2005
Posts: 9

Re: [harihari] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

any climbing is better than no climbing is what i would tell a new person. I would also say to take your time and you will learn when you are ready. regardless if it takes 0 topropes or an endless amount of top ropes. who knows maybee they will like to climb solo and leave all ropes.


unabonger


Mar 23, 2013, 9:21 AM
Post #59 of 59 (2443 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 8, 2003
Posts: 2689

Re: [fearlessclimber] top roping is stoopid... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

fearlessclimber wrote:
lead climbing is what makes a man, toproping is lame

Hilarious. You know how many fearless lead climbers I've known that do dumb shit like run out on bills, cheat on their wife, live on credit cards, and smoke their lunch in a bong? Quite a few. These examples aren't men, they are children. Lead climbing has absolutely zero bearing on your manhood.

Toproping is actually the most manly form of climbing. No ego or bragging rights at stake, just you, the rock, and your best shot.


Forums : Clubs : Mental Training: The Rock Warrior's Way

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?
$62.06 (10% off)
$44.96 (10% off)
$49.46 (10% off)
$7.16 (10% off)



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook