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Best Boulderer Ever
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May 9, 2007, 1:01 PM
Post #201 of 202 (997 views)

Registered: Jul 12, 2006
Posts: 51

This threat kicks ass [In reply to]
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This thread kicks butt because it is keeping all of the troll's comments in one spot so the other posts... are actually getting quality responses.

Keep up the good work!


May 9, 2007, 6:16 PM
Post #202 of 202 (963 views)

Registered: Jun 12, 2003
Posts: 1814

Re: [sinrtb] Best Boulderer Ever [In reply to]
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sinrtb wrote:
fracture wrote:
Prior to the evolution of color-vision systems, did the "color of an object" exist? If, in 2050, every human who is not red-green color-blind is mass-murdered in the weirdest genocide ever, would red and green still exist as independent "colors of objects"? What if (a few centuries later) every organism with eyes is mercilessly slaughtered (by a new race of super-intelligent, eyeless machines)? What if eyes had never evolved?

And what other color-like properties do we need admit the existence of? Suppose that one day, organisms will evolve another sense organ, which can detect the folor of something: do folors-of-objects exist today, despite the lack of an observer, or do we have to wait?

I somehow popped into a metaphysical bouldering thread... This is a Zen question "if a tree falls in a forest and if no one is there to see it did it make a sound?" The color red exists if our reality exists. The wavelength of light that makes the color exists regardless of perception. (My food is cooked in the microwave regardless of if i can sense the microwaves or not).

No, it's not that type of question. You misunderstood: what we describe as an object's color is not simply identifiable with a property of its surface. No such property exists. (And it is not simply identifiable with the wavelength of the light hitting your retina, either.)

When we say something like "apples are red" we are making a statement in the context of how the human brain processes a certain type of sense-data. This processing is not fully understood; it is complex and involves physically distinct areas in the brain (brain damage in different locales can produce different types of color blindness). The resulting "color" that our brains assign to objects is based on an interaction between a variety of objective apple-surface-properties and our species' evolutionary history (insomuch as it shaped our brains).

The point is: other brains do not see apples the way we do, so, while "apples are red" is certainly a fact, it is a human-relative fact.

(This post was edited by fracture on May 9, 2007, 8:12 PM)

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