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jcasper


Dec 13, 2006, 1:47 PM
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Re: [fluxus] Man made climbing [In reply to]
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fluxus wrote:
But I regret to say no, at this point the Mormon Church doesn't. But the discourse around women and the preisthood is in transitiion. I don't think women will get the priesthood any time soon but even some very conservative Mormons I know wonder why they don't have it.

This thread really belongs in The Soap Box.

The priesthood in the LDS church is not like "the priesthood" in other churches, synonymous with the leadership in the church. At both the church wide and local levels, women lead and serve in the church. They teach, pray, give sermons, etc. just as often as men in the church do. The church has what is called the Relief Society which is similar in many ways to the priesthood. There is a church wide Relief Society President, Bonnie D. Parkin, who is seen a a leader, both spiritual and organizational, throughout the world. Women are partners and equals to men in the church. As a member, I have known, as friends, hundreds of members of the church, having lived in many different areas in the country and been involved with congregations worldwide, and it is extremely seldom that I have come across a woman who is unhappy with women's role in the church.

So yes, women are not ordained to the priesthood in the church. Men and women are different, as God made them, and thus God has different roles for them in His church. Different roles does not mean inferior roles. Men don't have the capacity (and burden) of bearing children. Does that make men or women less valuable in society? Nope, just different. Women don't have the priesthood in the church, it doesn't mean they are less valuable. Just as there would be no children without both men and women, there would be no church without men and women. (Not suggesting that leading church is anything like making a baby :)


grayhghost


Dec 13, 2006, 1:56 PM
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Re: [fluxus] Man made climbing [In reply to]
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"Comunity(sic) of Christ"

I briefly checked out their website. Is this the organization you belong to?
I had no idea the Mormon experience has splintered in such a way but I guess any popular idea has many sub-sets.


grayhghost


Dec 13, 2006, 1:59 PM
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Re: [jcasper] Man made climbing [In reply to]
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"it is extremely seldom that I have come across a woman who is unhappy with women's role in the church."

This is by far the most popular reason the women I have known have left the church.

. . . but the most dangerous misconception in this thread is the idea that the church created the great bouldering in LCC.


fluxus


Dec 13, 2006, 2:30 PM
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flamer


Dec 13, 2006, 3:10 PM
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Re: [jcasper] Man made climbing [In reply to]
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jcasper wrote:
On a side note, are you honestly ignorant enough to think that millions of people in the world, including hundreds of thousands of Africans, believe that Africans are the result of the devil having sex with a goat???

To be clear....i absolutely DO NOT think that The devil/ goat thing is real.....whether other people believe it who knows....but it's written in mormon passage's.
I'll get quotes as soon as I can get to my books.

The Mormon church is the fastest growing religion in the world. And they are full of hypocrisy and lies.
They twist the truth to whatever way fits them, and will allow them more members and money.
Woman and minorities have long been thought of as lesser being's than white men.
Those stance's changed when they were no longer popular with society as a whole.

There are hundreds of splintered off mormon church's....LDS being the recongnised mormon church.
The fundamentalist's(of which there are numerous splinter's as well) are the one's that attract the most attention. This primarily being due to the fact that they still live the "principal" that being plural marriage. The most notable being the FLDS who have been in the news the last few years concerning their current "one mighty and strong" leader(Warren Jeffs) being in hiding and finally caught by law enforcement. This was concerning child rape charge's and also being a polygamist or "Cohab" as it were.

Numerous historical books exsist concerning the broad spectrum of the LDS church and it's branch's. Some are flattering (most of these published with LDS funds...go figure!) some not.
A fairly common theme is that they will continue to change to benefit the church in the public eye, but once they've amassed a certain control over society....they will most liklely bring back less popular ideal's.

I've dealt with numerous mormons over the years. In fact I grew up playing with my mormon neighbor kids. My personal opinion of your joe blow mormon is that they are tremendously nice people. The kind you want as a neighbor. However they are completely brain washed by the church.
Attack me all you want. Loved the comment about lot's of Mo's climbing better than me.....it's true! of course I climb better than lot's of Mo's...depends how you look at it....oh and I'd have to care whether anyone climbs harder than me!

I know there are plenty of nasty things in the King James and everyother peice of scriptor out there! But you have to see the way certain groups manipulate their follower's.

Seriously if you are blindly defending them look into the numerous books that are out there.....

If you are a Mo defending your cult...well I expect that. In fact I respect that as well...gotta defend who you are even if it's crazy.

Carry on.....and I'll have some quotes for you eventually.

josh


flamer


Dec 13, 2006, 3:14 PM
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Re: [fluxus] Man made climbing [In reply to]
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fluxus wrote:
I can't comment to the degree of satisfaction of any group within the church but certainly open expressions of dissatisfaction are rare, if for no other reason than they are strongly discouraged, on any level.

And there in lies the reason behind alot of the splinterd off 'churchs'.....

josh


fluxus


Dec 13, 2006, 3:41 PM
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flamer


Dec 13, 2006, 4:04 PM
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Re: [fluxus] Man made climbing [In reply to]
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"fluxus[quote wrote:
And they are full of hypocrisy and lies.
They twist the truth to whatever way fits them, and will allow them more members and money.

someone has a REALLY big chip on their shoulder, examples please!
As I don't have time at this moment to get into all of your statements....I'll just look at this one.

How about the doctrine against "strong drink"...wasn't caffine considered "strong drink" for a very long time????

And tell me when was it that your "one mighty and strong" decreed that caffine was no longer considered "strong drink"??? Wasn't after the LDS trust purchased major interest in Pepsi co was it?

josh


anythingxtreme


Dec 13, 2006, 5:00 PM
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Re: [flamer] Man made climbing [In reply to]
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flamer wrote:
As I don't have time at this moment to get into all of your statements....I'll just look at this one.

How about the doctrine against "strong drink"...wasn't caffine considered "strong drink" for a very long time????

And tell me when was it that your "one mighty and strong" decreed that caffine was no longer considered "strong drink"??? Wasn't after the LDS trust purchased major interest in Pepsi co was it?

Sorry buddy. Caffine was never on that list. Is that really the best you can come up with?
We have yet to see one bit of evidence for any of your ludicrous claims.
Oh, and a little hint. You might want to try finding a different source for your information, you've really been misled, that or you only want to mislead others assuming none or few will actually check your references and unfounded claims, rather take your word for it.
A few suggestions:
http://www.mormon.org
http://www.lds.org
These are the official teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, if it is contrary to what is said here, it is not LDS doctrine. It's that simple.


fluxus


Dec 13, 2006, 5:30 PM
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wilcox510


Dec 13, 2006, 5:51 PM
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Re: [devils_advocate] Man made climbing [In reply to]
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Flamer - I'm confused, which one is it? Are there no good Mormons, or do they make nice and friendly neighbors you can play with as a child? Blanket statements about there being no good Mormons simply make you look prejudiced, despite what quirks their religion may have.


sofakingcool


Dec 13, 2006, 5:54 PM
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Re: [fluxus] Man made climbing [In reply to]
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Regarding the consumption of caffeine , I have two personal experiences I can site . First , my sister is married to a mormon , and he and his family will not drink caffeine under any circumstances . You say its a personal choice , and not doctrine , fine ... But years ago , I had a Mormon friend who was doing yard work on a home all day , and the people he was working for offered him a soda . They had nothing else , so he accepted . Some members of his church drove by and saw him drinking the soda , and he was heavily reprimanded by members of his church ... Doesn't seem like much of a personal decision , if you get in trouble for it .


carabiner96


Dec 13, 2006, 7:48 PM
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Re: [sofakingcool] Man made climbing [In reply to]
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sofakingcool wrote:
Regarding the consumption of caffeine , I have two personal experiences I can site . First , my sister is married to a mormon , and he and his family will not drink caffeine under any circumstances . You say its a personal choice , and not doctrine , fine ... But years ago , I had a Mormon friend who was doing yard work on a home all day , and the people he was working for offered him a soda . They had nothing else , so he accepted . Some members of his church drove by and saw him drinking the soda , and he was heavily reprimanded by members of his church ... Doesn't seem like much of a personal decision , if you get in trouble for it .


Oh yes, sounds like then EVERY mormon will spank another if he sees someone else chugging a coke.

PUH-lease guys. Scrape the mold off of your brain and move out of your mommy's basement.


blondgecko
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Dec 13, 2006, 9:39 PM
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Re: [carabiner96] Man made climbing [In reply to]
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carabiner96 wrote:
flamer wrote:
carabiner96 wrote:
flamer wrote:
anythingxtreme wrote:
There are many good LDS members on this site.

BS there is no such thing as a good LDS member.

The church as a whole has a somewhat hidden agenda(i say somewhat because they've had leaks). They are seriously trying to take over the world and thus far are succeeding. The Book itself preach's plenty of hate.

Anyone who thinks otherwise should do some reading.

josh

Sounds like someone believes EVERYTHING he reads on the internet.



p.s. faeries are real.

Not from the internet...read the book itself. Or any number of other books out there.

Did you know that the book of mormon says African people are the result of the devil having sex with a goat?

I'm sure you'd love to hear what they think about women...

You should educate yourself before taking pot shots.

josh

Try reading a "normal" bible...there's plenty of fucked up shit in there that you wouldn't believe...did YOU know that our ancestors were a bunch of incestuous prigs??? Or that a silly apple doomed humanity all because women are weak?


Mods, move to soap box please, STAT.

Translation: My imaginary friend can kick your imaginary friend's ass! Mad


flamer


Dec 14, 2006, 9:14 AM
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Re: [fluxus] Man made climbing [In reply to]
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fluxus wrote:
Let me help you, why not bring up the mountain meadows murders, or the white salamander paper?


Oh I was getting to that stuff.

I really wish i hadn't loaned out my books.

How about the gold tablets?
How many times did moroni "give" them to Joe Smith?
2 I believe it was....but wait the 2nd time he didn't have the "magic glasses" to interpret them. So he just recited them from memory....right.

Mormonism was founded by a complete wack job, who was run out of more than one town for being a con artist.

josh


madriver


Dec 14, 2006, 9:30 AM
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Re: [flamer] Man made climbing [In reply to]
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flamer wrote:
fluxus wrote:
Mormonism was founded by a complete wack job, who was run out of more than one town for being a con artist.

josh

...uhh Vermont actually...hell we're the most liberal state EVER!!!!!!!!!!


fluxus


Dec 14, 2006, 9:57 AM
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Re: [flamer] Man made climbing [In reply to]
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flamer wrote:
there is no such thing as a good LDS member. . .They are seriously trying to take over the world and thus far are succeeding. The Book itself preach's plenty of hate. . .Did you know that the book of mormon says Africa people are the result of the devil having sex with a goat? . . .they are full of hypocrisy and lies. . . They twist the truth to whatever way fits them . . .Woman and minorities have long been thought of as lesser being's than white men. . . Mormonism was founded by a complete wack job, who was run out of more than one town for being a con artist.

You know Josh, I suspect that much of what you have posted in this thread is questionable in terms of the RC.com rules of conduct. For example ddt reminded folks in another thread that "posting inflammatory material specifically to provoke a negative response from someone" is not within the pale here.

I think its nearly a categorical good to question beliefs, and to express strongly held opinions but the assembled quotes are simply bigotry nothing more. Your posts are not about the church they are about your own paranoia and anger.

You have an ax to grind with Mormons, not sure why, but thats the way it is. In grinding your ax you have shown yourself to be inarticulate, poorly informed, a little scary, and straight out bigoted.

yea, you're that guy.

You want to question the church, go for it, but do it without the hate and do it without misrepresenting Mormon faith and history. What you are doing is creating your own straw man, naming it Mormon and knocking it down. Not much of an achievement.


flamer


Dec 14, 2006, 9:57 AM
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Re: [madriver] Man made climbing [In reply to]
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madriver wrote:
flamer wrote:
fluxus wrote:
Mormonism was founded by a complete wack job, who was run out of more than one town for being a con artist.

josh

...uhh Vermont actually...hell we're the most liberal state EVER!!!!!!!!!!

Classic!!
What they don't believe in "seer stones" in Vermont?

....Look into my hat and you will find a new religion....one that will allow you to sleep with young girls......

josh


madriver


Dec 14, 2006, 10:03 AM
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Re: [flamer] Man made climbing [In reply to]
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flamer wrote:
madriver wrote:
flamer wrote:
fluxus wrote:
Mormonism was founded by a complete wack job, who was run out of more than one town for being a con artist.

josh

...uhh Vermont actually...hell we're the most liberal state EVER!!!!!!!!!!

Classic!!
What they don't believe in "seer stones" in Vermont?

....Look into my hat and you will find a new religion....one that will allow you to sleep with young girls......

josh

...don't know about "seer stones"....however we do have a large influx of "stoners" and Trustifarians. We allow them do to do pretty much anything they want...with regards to "sleeping with young girls". We pretty much allow that to.....

Love and Peace
J. Cashman


(This post was edited by madriver on Dec 14, 2006, 10:04 AM)


flamer


Dec 14, 2006, 10:53 AM
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Re: [fluxus] Man made climbing [In reply to]
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fluxus wrote:
flamer wrote:
there is no such thing as a good LDS member. . .They are seriously trying to take over the world and thus far are succeeding. The Book itself preach's plenty of hate. . .Did you know that the book of mormon says Africa people are the result of the devil having sex with a goat? . . .they are full of hypocrisy and lies. . . They twist the truth to whatever way fits them . . .Woman and minorities have long been thought of as lesser being's than white men. . . Mormonism was founded by a complete wack job, who was run out of more than one town for being a con artist.

You know Josh, I suspect that much of what you have posted in this thread is questionable in terms of the RC.com rules of conduct. For example ddt reminded folks in another thread that "posting inflammatory material specifically to provoke a negative response from someone" is not within the pale here.

I think its nearly a categorical good to question beliefs, and to express strongly held opinions but the assembled quotes are simply bigotry nothing more. Your posts are not about the church they are about your own paranoia and anger.

You have an ax to grind with Mormons, not sure why, but thats the way it is. In grinding your ax you have shown yourself to be inarticulate, poorly informed, a little scary, and straight out bigoted.

yea, you're that guy.

You want to question the church, go for it, but do it without the hate and do it without misrepresenting Mormon faith and history. What you are doing is creating your own straw man, naming it Mormon and knocking it down. Not much of an achievement.

Right.
Keep thinking that. I'd suspect that more than one person reading this thread has gone out and found the truth for themself.

Point finger's saying I violated the CofD (hey that's like the DandC!!)...I haven't and nobody cares.

Inarticulate, especially when typing!!, I am. Misinformed I am not. Keep throwing up your smoke screen...you're cult has been doing it for years.
Bigoted towards LDS....hmmmm. I might be. That sucks! I'd never strive to be a bigot. And truth be told, I'm not planning on chasing down the nearst mormon. Nor do I wish any harm on any of you. But as long as the LDS church actively pursue's the mission program they do. I will continue to speak as I have.
Hell I'll make you a deal!! Get the church to stop actively seeking converts, and I'll leave it alone. People want to come and find your brand of religion great!!

You are a very classic example of an LDS book beater. Smoke screen's and all. Of course I make it easy for you to play innocent as I made the first statements here. Thus allowing for you to play the victim...which is always the easy side of the line.
But hey! I don't really care...all I wanted was to get more people to look at the historical facts surrounding the LDS world. Not the BS stuff from the church.
How many of you know that the LDS church actively purchase's historical documents that prove the book of mormon to be a sham? Look it up....it's out there.
In fact this practice has actually created a unqiue scam....people have been know to falsify documents and then sell them to the church!! I'm certainly not condoning that pratice...but it's interesting..no?

You can think whatever you want to about me and my intentions. I think you are mostly just scared that people will find the truth.

josh


flamer


Dec 14, 2006, 10:58 AM
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Re: [madriver] Man made climbing [In reply to]
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madriver wrote:
...don't know about "seer stones"....however we do have a large influx of "stoners" and Trustifarians. We allow them do to do pretty much anything they want...with regards to "sleeping with young girls". We pretty much allow that to.....

Ah the "seer stone" John smith was a believer in these "magic rocks". Before he founded the LDS church he used these supposed magic rocks to foretell the future. This was an obvious sham and he was run out of more than one town because of it.

Trustafarian's!!! Now there's a religious group I'd join!!

josh


madriver


Dec 14, 2006, 11:02 AM
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Re: [flamer] Man made climbing [In reply to]
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flamer wrote:
fluxus wrote:
flamer wrote:
there is no such thing as a good LDS member. . .They are seriously trying to take over the world and thus far are succeeding. The Book itself preach's plenty of hate. . .Did you know that the book of mormon says Africa people are the result of the devil having sex with a goat? . . .they are full of hypocrisy and lies. . . They twist the truth to whatever way fits them . . .Woman and minorities have long been thought of as lesser being's than white men. . . Mormonism was founded by a complete wack job, who was run out of more than one town for being a con artist.

You know Josh, I suspect that much of what you have posted in this thread is questionable in terms of the RC.com rules of conduct. For example ddt reminded folks in another thread that "posting inflammatory material specifically to provoke a negative response from someone" is not within the pale here.

I think its nearly a categorical good to question beliefs, and to express strongly held opinions but the assembled quotes are simply bigotry nothing more. Your posts are not about the church they are about your own paranoia and anger.

You have an ax to grind with Mormons, not sure why, but thats the way it is. In grinding your ax you have shown yourself to be inarticulate, poorly informed, a little scary, and straight out bigoted.

yea, you're that guy.

You want to question the church, go for it, but do it without the hate and do it without misrepresenting Mormon faith and history. What you are doing is creating your own straw man, naming it Mormon and knocking it down. Not much of an achievement.

Right.
Keep thinking that. I'd suspect that more than one person reading this thread has gone out and found the truth for themself.

Point finger's saying I violated the CofD (hey that's like the DandC!!)...I haven't and nobody cares.

Inarticulate, especially when typing!!, I am. Misinformed I am not. Keep throwing up your smoke screen...you're cult has been doing it for years.
Bigoted towards LDS....hmmmm. I might be. That sucks! I'd never strive to be a bigot. And truth be told, I'm not planning on chasing down the nearst mormon. Nor do I wish any harm on any of you. But as long as the LDS church actively pursue's the mission program they do. I will continue to speak as I have.
Hell I'll make you a deal!! Get the church to stop actively seeking converts, and I'll leave it alone. People want to come and find your brand of religion great!!

You are a very classic example of an LDS book beater. Smoke screen's and all. Of course I make it easy for you to play innocent as I made the first statements here. Thus allowing for you to play the victim...which is always the easy side of the line.
But hey! I don't really care...all I wanted was to get more people to look at the historical facts surrounding the LDS world. Not the BS stuff from the church.
How many of you know that the LDS church actively purchase's historical documents that prove the book of mormon to be a sham? Look it up....it's out there.
In fact this practice has actually created a unqiue scam....people have been know to falsify documents and then sell them to the church!! I'm certainly not condoning that pratice...but it's interesting..no?

You can think whatever you want to about me and my intentions. I think you are mostly just scared that people will find the truth.

josh

...wait ...you mean the Church of LDS had a "DaVinchi Code" thing? I bet somebody got blown up in a car or some shit like that....BTW....us Catholics have it all over the Mormons with wierd rituals and bizzare stories about how we came to beleive in God.....really...look it up....it's in the Bible.


Love

Pope on a Rope


(This post was edited by madriver on Dec 14, 2006, 11:04 AM)


flamer


Dec 14, 2006, 11:36 AM
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madriver wrote:
...wait ...you mean the Church of LDS had a "DaVinchi Code" thing? I bet somebody got blown up in a car or some shit like that....BTW....us Catholics have it all over the Mormons with wierd rituals and bizzare stories about how we came to beleive in God.....really...look it up....it's in the Bible.

I'm not a believer in any organised religion. I do not support any of them. I know that there are weird facets to most religion's.
I'm not going to compare any of them.
But I will tell you that if you are a supporter of
christian religions you should look into what the mormons think of you and your beliefs....It's interesting. Now i'm sure I'll get shit for pointing this stuff out, they'll Probably accuse me of supporting other religion's. I do not.

Tell you what just google "mormon truth" and see what comes up.
Some of the stuff is christian supported fluff that does have some facts, but also seek's to prove them based on their own believe's..of which some are qeustionable.
Some of the things you will find are historical facts....look into what occurred in Nauvoo.
Plenty of hypocrisy exposed, plenty of lies.

I'd encourage folks to read through some of it and pay close attention to fact's. Then form your own opinion. Hell read through the LDS links provided earlier in this thread. Compare what the church says with other info. Then form your opinion.

Oh and if you want some really juicy stuff google the afforementioned "mountain meadow massacre". That's a hell of a story. Not that other places/groups didn't have their version of the MMM, but it's still interesting.

josh


fluxus


Dec 14, 2006, 11:40 AM
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flamer


Dec 14, 2006, 11:45 AM
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Re: [wilcox510] Man made climbing [In reply to]
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wilcox510 wrote:
flamer wrote:
BS there is no such thing as a good LDS member.

That is absoultely ridiculous.

You know as I go back and read this I'd have to say that it was a harsh and "knee jerk" statement.

There are plenty of good people who are members of the LDS church. I was wrong to say that there are not.
.....I should have more clearly stated that the church itself is no good.

Please feel free to twist this statement as you will.
I just wanted to go back and point out my error.

josh

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