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madturtle


Sep 20, 2002, 12:12 AM
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What are your thoughts on passing slower parties on long multipitch routes? As far as ethics of it and actual technique.

What about leading between the slower leader and his/her second (basically climbing over the other party's rope but placing your own gear) so as to minimize down time?


nailzz


Sep 20, 2002, 1:57 AM
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There's a lot of variables involved in those questions.

Quote:
What are your thoughts on passing slower parties on long multipitch routes? As far as ethics of it and actual technique.


Passing them, in my opinion, is perfectly acceptable. Especially on longer routes.

Technique, try as hard as you can to not pass the leader (of the slower party) on a 'scary' section. Passing while they're both at a belay would be ideal I suppose, but would take really good timing. But most likely since you'll be passing belayer and leader, try to do it on an easier section of the climb.


zee


Sep 20, 2002, 5:10 AM
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Depends on the area and route. For example, in Yosemite on the long routes, acceptable practice due to bomber rock. Potrero Chico in Mexico, absolutely unacceptable, due to shite rock. If there is any possiblity of tearing rock, then my feeling is that passing or even climbing beneath another party is a dengerous practice and should be avoided.


tradklime


Sep 20, 2002, 8:36 AM
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If possible, ask the slower party to allow you to go ahead from a belay station. Assuming the belay is relatively safe from rock fall, this helps to avoid some of the complicaitons and safety issues.

In my opinion, especially on popular routes, it is unethical and just plain rude for a slow party to not let you pass them when it can be done safely. I once spent 8 hours on the Durance route on Devils tour behind a slow party. Drove me nuts.. apparently it still does.


offwidth


Sep 20, 2002, 9:48 AM
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I think it depends on the route. If you have to climb over them then you should ask. They may have gotten on early start to avoid people dropping rocks and gear onto their heads...

But a lot of climbs have many variations that make ideal "passing lanes" (Southeast Buttress of Cathedral Peak comes to mind) I wouldn't ask in this case.


(edited for spelling)

[ This Message was edited by: offwidth on 2002-09-20 09:49 ]


thrillseeker05


Sep 20, 2002, 10:10 AM
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I find it funny that anyone would think that it would be rude for a “slower” climber to not let you pass.. I personally feel the other climbers are the rude ones. If you don’t want to wait for them then go to a different route or get up earlier and be the first on the rock. Everyone climbs a different pace once you are on the route the last thing you need to worry about is some show off crossing over you. Since you can see someone at the belay station belaying a climber.. then that route is busy at the moment .. either wait or go somewhere else.


tradklime


Sep 20, 2002, 10:44 AM
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Personally, I don't advocate crossing over anyone on a route. That's why I suggested trying to work it out at a belay, if and when it is safe.

The reason, and the situation, I think it's rude is often a slow party can pause for 5 minutes to let a faster party pass. When the faster party can quickly climb out of your way, it seems like a completely reasonable thing to do. Especially on trade routes when everyone knows there will be a lot of traffic. In my opinion, the "I got here first attitude" isn't always appropriate when you can reasonably work it out. Of course, there are always exceptions, just generally speaking.


thrillseeker05


Sep 20, 2002, 10:51 AM
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Trad you make so very good points and it still is a matter of opinion. Although I am still going to disagree I value your argument to be well thought out. I still just feel that there a ton of routes out there and if you were dead set on that one particular route… well you can wait or get on it earlier.

Still it’s all just a matter of opinion. And I don’t think anyone is right or wrong.

Peace


rocks4jules


Sep 20, 2002, 11:09 AM
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  I'm with thrillseeker05 on this one. I agree -- "the early bird catches the worm" and in climbining it would be rude for others to assume its okay to pass anyone else on a multipitch. Climbing is suppose to be fun, and if I were on a climb where I was feeling pushed/rushed (just as in traffic), I would be nervous and pissed that someone was pushing me either to pass or to go faster than my pace. There are so many places to climb, I highly doubt everyone needs to be climbing the same route at the same time.

JUST HAVE FUN AND CLIMB ON!!!

JULES


Partner drector


Sep 20, 2002, 11:19 AM
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I've only overtaken a party once. There were two routes that converged on the last pitch. We could belay from a position next to but not on the belay for the other route but since there was a few (10) feet of shared route below the belay, the belayer there gave our guy (I was not on lead) a hard time when he asked to pass. We waited nearly an hour. W climbed the last pitch in about 10 minutes.

They were slow and had 6+ people. we were fast and on easy terrain for us. I feel it was his perogative to say no but that he was a jerk for doing so.

I sat for a 1/2 hour once to let a party pass becaue they were way way faster than us. I was not obligated but then I'm also not obligated to do other things like open the door for a lady, let a person merge in front of my car, return found gear, not spit on the sidewalk, etc... you can be nice or you can be rude but it's really hard to be nothing at all. You have to pick one.

My statements are about passing in a situation where it makes sense, is safe, and is fast. If there is real (not stupid imaginary paranoid) danger then it should not be suggested or accepted.

Dave


hallm


Sep 20, 2002, 11:19 AM
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Either (1) climb around, and not through, a party, leaving the prime belay spots for the slower party until you are sure you won't run into each other (if the next few pitches have only bolt belays which would have to be shared, you probably shouldn't pass, also don't pass if cutting rock loose is a good possibility), or; (2) ask for permission to pass, and if permission is denied, suck it up and enjoy the view while you wait.


thrillseeker05


Sep 20, 2002, 11:28 AM
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drector
dude that sucks but look at it this way. You made your choices both times and you should feel good about that. Just because that guy denied you doesn’t make him a jerk and just because you let someone pass doesn’t make you an angle. Its all relative anyway. I tip my hat to you for being a good person.

what makes sense to you, is safe to you, or fast for you, may not be for them

[ This Message was edited by: thrillseeker05 on 2002-09-20 11:31 ]


mikedano


Sep 20, 2002, 11:49 AM
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This is a tough question and I think it all depends at the situation and the time and place. In CO you get lots of people on the popular routes, and you have to share a lot of the belays. However, little actual passing goes on, I think.

In one situation, a guy asked me if he could lead next to me as I followed a pitch. He was nice about it. I said no because I didn't want him to do that, and I knew I could climb the pitch really fast, and then go fast on the next pitch. He was fine with that.

In another case, some guy was rocketing up
behind us and I fully wanted to let him pass because it was such a nice day, but my partner wanted to get to the top so we did.

I've also been the fast one in some cases, but I usually just sit back and relax, unless the party ahead of us asks if we want to pass.

Also, I figure, you've got to wait at least until the second is at the belay before you start the climb. Don't go leading right behind the second. My partner calls this practice "licking ass."


tradklime


Sep 20, 2002, 12:33 PM
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Well first off, I'm glad this has remained a polite discussion, it's refreshing.

Anyway, in my opinion, the real problem are on long popular moderates. This is where allowing faster parties to pass really makes sense. While there are a lot of climbs in the world, there are not a lot of quality mega-classic long 5.7's. And these climbs are enjoyable for everyone, in a large range of abilities. If you are pushing yourself, that last thing you want is feeling pressure to climb faster. Why not just let a faster party pass you? It makes it more enjoyable for everyone involved. Any heck, mabey you'll pick up some tips watching some more experienced climbers. In my opinion, the first example drector gave is an absolute disgrace and an example of some people who never learned to share.

BTW, in the days of the gun fighters, there was always a faster gun. And unless you pitch your tent at the first belay or climb in the dark, despite your best efforts, there will always be someone who gets there before you. At least in my experience.


thrillseeker05


Sep 20, 2002, 12:53 PM
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Just wanted to say that this is a great thread. I really enjoyed reading everyone’s opinions.


madturtle


Sep 20, 2002, 1:21 PM
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Thenks for the info.

What do you think of haveing the second leader climbing over the first leaders rope, on fairly moderate terrain? Just so I can explain it we'll say the slow party consiste of leader A and follower A and the passing party is B's. Leader A heads up the route. Leader B let's him get maybe 1/2 way up the pitch and then begins climbing placing his own gear and being careful to keep his rope on the same side the of leader A's the whole way up. Leader B then runs out his rope to get above leader A, or simulclimbs to the next anchor. Then both party's belay there seconds to the belays.

I did this on a trade route a few months ago and another guy told me I we were crazy. Not the party we passed, they were cool with it.

What do you think?


mikedano


Sep 20, 2002, 1:54 PM
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I personally think that's a good way to get hurt. The first leader could fall on you, you could fall, your ropes could get tangled, seems like a fair amount of things could go wrong. If I were the first group and you really wanted to pass, I would just let you pass at the belay and make it simple.

However, I have been in these types of situations and it wasn't too bad. It's just not the greatest...


tradklime


Sep 20, 2002, 1:58 PM
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I'd say that on easy terrain you'll get away with it 99.9% of the time. However, if the higher leader falls, you'll likely hit the guy below you.

My opinion, if you pass someone while climbing, you should be on a different route.


froggy


Sep 20, 2002, 2:32 PM
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Well I have a strong opinion on this one, because I was stuck behind a slow party at Tahquitz a month or so ago and ended up getting lost in the dark trying to find the cars because we decided not to pass these slow people (and the REALLY SLOW people did not ask if we would like to pass either)...

Next time I am going to pass them even if I have to use there head as a foot hold. We were waiting 30 minute to an hour at each belay! That is just plain rude! It was relatively safe, obviously we were climbing right below them. We even waited till they were two pitches up to start climbing!

Slow parties, except that you are slow and let people pass, k?!?

[ This Message was edited by: froggy on 2002-09-20 14:48 ]


thrillseeker05


Sep 20, 2002, 3:30 PM
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froggy is it?
Dude, take responsibility for your OWN actions. You almost got lost because you started too late on a route that was being climbed. .. if it was so important for you climb that ONE route then get there earlier or go a different route. you chose not to .. it wasnt anyones fault but your own.
dont be such a victim.




froggy


Sep 20, 2002, 3:44 PM
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thrillseeker - you are wrong.. Sorry.

You should not be on a climb in a popular area taking 2 hours to complete a single pitch! It is obviously to high above their grade. We gave them ample time to keep moving. We even took our time and they still were going WAY TO SLOW. Sitting a hour waiting for someone to finish leading a pitch, then taking the time to bring their slow second up, and then finally getting to move again is rediculous!

PS I am not a dude, thanks

[ This Message was edited by: froggy on 2002-09-20 15:50 ]


froggy


Sep 20, 2002, 3:48 PM
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Oh and I will take responsibility into my own hands - next time I will climb through if I have to, so I don't have to deal with their slowness and take responsibility for their actions..

I am not getting lost in the dark because they are too slow


hallm


Sep 20, 2002, 3:54 PM
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Froggy,

I'm sorry to inform you, but thrillseeker is correct.

The party above you got on the route first. According to climbing etiquette, they had complete rights to the route, including the right to take two, three or four hours a pitch. In fact, if they decided to bivy half way up, that is their choice, and just because you happen to want to climb the same route does not give you any right to pre-empt their early arrival by unilaterally deciding to climb through.

Others do not get to be the arbiter of what routes a particular party should be on (to use your terminology, whether a route is above their "grade"), and whether they should allow another group to pass. It is extremely presumptive of you to believe so, and such an attitude is indicative of a lack of experience and extreme carelessness.

Either get there earlier, go around (not through), ask permission, wait, or find another route to climb.


hallm


Sep 20, 2002, 3:57 PM
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Froggy,

one more point, if you don't want to get lost in the dark, bring proper gear (read, headlamp).



Partner drector


Sep 20, 2002, 4:03 PM
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froggy,

In an earlier post, I suggested very strongly that a party that doesn't let you pass is being rude but... If you didn't ask then you take what you get. And even if they say no, you are still responsible for your own outcome. If you didn't ask then I don't think they should be paying any attention to how *you* are climbing. They should be focusing on, and enjoying their own climb. And even if you had asked and they had denied you, their only error in my mind is not being polite (or being rude if the pass is an easy one). They are certainly not responsible for the outcome of your climb.

I'm all for etiquette in climbing but you are still responsible for yourself and your actions. You are the final authority and must take full responsibility for the outcome of your climb (unless they started to throw rocks at you, etc...).

Dave


joemor


Sep 20, 2002, 4:07 PM
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how about you just ask when you hit their belayer. a simple "do you mind if we pass" should clear things up. theyll either say yes or as soon as we hit the belay and are safe, or no. its a no brainer. hey were on the route first and deserve the respect of being at least asked if they mind being passed.


joe


froggy


Sep 20, 2002, 4:08 PM
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Hallm.. or whatever..
I had a headlamp... thank you.

Sorry, I disagree..

If a party is moving quickly and then slows down considerably it is not the party below thems fault nor is it something that I will allow to happen. There are a bunch of climbers out there and it is rare to find a route these days with no one on it... so if a party will not allow us to 'climb through' I will take the initiative to do so..

Call it ignorance, or whatever you would like to call it, but I think I have a prime example of why it makes a lot of sense.
The fact that this party was so slow shows their lack of experience and that they were in over their heads and that they were totally ignorant to the fact they were so slow..

I still disagree

[ This Message was edited by: froggy on 2002-09-20 16:23 ]


froggy


Sep 20, 2002, 4:13 PM
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I will be polite and ask, I am a very safe climber, but if some one is going to put my safety in jepardy like they did at Tahquitz and not let me pass, I will just pass from now on...

You - try getting caught in the dark and try getting lost for about an hour in the forest and you tell me what you will do next time, k


Dave and Joe I agree with you both completely - but I will take responsibility next time and pass them even if their ego's won't agree to it and it is getting late in the day...

If I were that climber that was sooooooooo slow, my ego would be fine with letting faster climbers through.. No questions asked..


[ This Message was edited by: froggy on 2002-09-20 16:17 ]


grigriese


Sep 22, 2002, 3:06 PM
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My Boyfriend and I allowed a two guy party to pass us last weekend on Prodigal Son - what a mistake. We'd planned on doing the route over two days, they planned on doing it in a day. We figured it would be not only best but also nice to let them go go ahead of us. We even let them jumar up our fixed line. My boyfriend ended up spending over 5 hours in his aiders on one pitch alone because the party we had allowed to pass us several hours earlier made such incredibley slow progress. They bailed at 9:30pm from the 5th pitch, one guy was practiacally in tears and I was seriously concerned he might rap off the rope. We had expected to be at the top of the 6th pitch by dark, instead we lowered and bivied on the 3rd pitch - ended up topping out the following day in the dark instead of in the afternoon. Thanks Guys! The reason I write this is because I think it is fine to let people pass, but the passing party should really be certain that they will stay well ahead of the party they pass. The passing party has a responsibility to be very safe and as good as they say they are.

[ This Message was edited by: grigriese on 2002-09-22 15:10 ]


alpinerocket


Sep 22, 2002, 3:31 PM
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There has been alot of good discussion here on the issue of passing and I would like to have the opportunity to express my feelings.
I try to get up early and hit the rocks and I agree that the route belongs to you if you arived first however, IMO it goes back too single pitch etiquette if a faster party comes up behind you. Would you hog single pitch route on TR when there is a line waiting to climb it, or would you move on? I would move on and share the rock with others. I would do the same for a faster party on a multi-pitch as long as they are polite and ask and do it in a safe manner and location. I have also caught up with alot of parties some have let me pass and some have not. I was always polite when asking and I promised I would not hold them up long. I have even offered to let them rappell on my lines if they arived at the top in time. I believe it just goes back to being a human being and respecting the others on the route and remeber the "Golden Rule". How would you want to be treated if the situation was turned. Have a nice day. John



rockprodigy


Sep 23, 2002, 10:16 AM
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Well, I was going to keep my mouth shut on this touchy subject, buy I've jsut read one too many statements to the effect of: "if you get there first, you OWN the route". That is the biggest bull I've ever read. I'm all for being polite and considerate, etc..however...think about what you're saying...I'll take it to an extreme to illustrate the insanity of your statement: Let's say I get up real early and go to the base of the Nose on El Cap. I want to TR the first pitch all day long and I don't want anyone getting in my way...hey I OWN it, right? Another example is when you're on a narrow winding mountain road and you come up on ma and pa in their oldsmobile pulling a trailer. Hey, they got there first, so it's their right to drive 20 miles an hour and hold up everyone else...right? Wrong, they're required by law to pull over and let people by.

Be polite, but nobody OWNS a route, if that's how you feel, you're bound to get runover. There's too many people out climbing these days to have an ownership mentality. We all share everything.

Furthermore...good/fast climbers have every right to climb moderate routes as do slow people...granted, they should realize what they're getting into if they start behind a slow party.


froggy


Sep 23, 2002, 10:22 AM
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I agree rockprodigy!
Especially after my experience.. I too will ask politely, but will not take no for an answer if my own safety is being challenged


Partner drector


Sep 23, 2002, 10:55 AM
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Climbing yesterday, a belayer on another route told the climber below who could not get up thethe crux of their route that it was okay to move over to our route and cross our rope. I gave the other climber instrcution about how to cross our rope but otherwise did not object. The traverse was on very easy (5.4) terrain and about 15 feet long.

My leader was making an anchor but he had not said "off belay" so if the other climber fell on our rope, they could have pulled him off of the overhang. I hoped that the other belayer could see he was safe. I took a chance not objecting.

I think that a slower party should always allow a faster party to pass at a safe point. Just keep in mind what's safe. Rope crossing when someone is leading is not a safe place to start passing or crossing.

Dave


thrillseeker05


Sep 23, 2002, 11:19 AM
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These are all good points and being polite is a good way to help each other out on the rock. But being polite goes both ways. By not rushing another team on a route is also being polite. Sharing also means to move to another route when one is being used. No one said you own it.. but for the time being it is used. The analogy of the long narrow road made no sense what-so-ever as it has no relevance to climbing. There are times that you all have proven that it worked out best that you let them pass and all was good. But at the same time an advanced climber that starts a moderate route behind some other climbers knowing that he or she is going to catch them and rush them is flat out being an ass. So if you want to be an ass, power to ya. Just remember that not everyone will be pleasant with your decision and accept the fact that you were the ass not the ones minding their own business trying to make the climb.
Furthermore, it seems like we have some selfish kindergartners climbing these days… you know the ones that come up to some kid playing with a toy and yank it out of his hands and then say.. “it’s my turn and you HAVE to SHARE!”.
As you can easily see this is not sharing nor is it understanding the concept


[ This Message was edited by: thrillseeker05 on 2002-09-23 11:30 ]


billcoe_


Sep 23, 2002, 9:45 PM
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Thrillseaker: Jimmy, we live in the same town. We have vastly different experience levels.

Let me say that generally you don't have a clue. But you do not know that you do not have a clue.

Please have an open mind for a moment.

If we were sitting down talking about this, it would be a real long discussion, so I think I may have some gaps in my typing.

Be aware of 2 things about me though: the first is that anybody who can catch me on a long route gets to pass as long as they are @ 10- 20 percent faster, not just a little bit faster, and there is no weather issues. I was climbing with 2 other experts once high on the grand in Squamish and let a real fast party of 2 pass as we watched the worst rainstom of the month approaching towards us across Howe Sound. They were flying, so were we, but had 3 people. We bailed and got to the ground min. before the heavens opened.

2nd) I rarely ever pass, and I try to avoid pressuring folks too.


The fact of the matter is that you have limited experince. Madturtle is talking long multi-pitch climbs. In the Tetons, Alps and Colorado, afternoon thunderstorms and lightning can blast you right off the rock. If you want to follow a party whom is obviously in way over their heads, while that electrical storm approachs and they dawwddllleeeeoooossslllooooowwwwlllleeeeee oooppppssssiiiiidddrrrpoooppppeeddddmmmmmyyyyycaaaaaaarrrraaabbbbiiiiinnnnnnnerrrrrrrrhhhhheeeyyyyyyyycccccaaannnnnnnyyyyooooouuuuuuwwwhahhhaattttttdddooooiiiiiiiddddoooohhhhhuuuuuhhhh??????: be my guest. And if you say, "well you saw they were on the route and should have gone back to your car and tried again tommorrow or next week or..." them we have nothing to discuss.

I suspect you will not do it twice once you do it once.

I'm not talking about anything we have in Oregon either. Oregon doesn't have any seriously long stuff. 4-5 pitches at Smith isn't long. The shield volcanos you can generally make your own route, even on long routes like the north face of Jeff.

Talking long routes here.

My answers to the origonal question are:
It is subjective.
It is situational.
VERY.

You should listen more IMO, you'll live longer. That's not a slam, just a fact.

Bill


hallm


Sep 23, 2002, 10:24 PM
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Hmmmm . . . I agree that whether to pass a party ahead of you is situational, and I have outlined in a previous post my feelings regarding options to go by a slower party. I will strongly disagree with any general statement that a party can or should lead through another party without permission (the only exception to this would be to perform necessary rescue operations under mantle of authority). It isn't safe. It certainly isn't recommended technique when two teams are working in cooperation, and is even more dangerous when unilaterally done.

Be safe and think ahead.


rockprodigy


Sep 24, 2002, 3:19 PM
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Bill, you hit the nail on the head. These guys don't know what they're talking about. Thrillseeker, I agree that passing someone on a 3 pitch route at smith is pointless, if there's someone on the route, go climb somewhere else. However, as Bill eloquently explained, on long routes passing is a necessity...if you climb more you will realize that.


donaldjamesperry


Jun 24, 2012, 11:30 AM
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I think on a big wall you have to pass, it can be a matter of safety if the party ahead of you is parked or moving at a significantly slow rate. Your supplies and the jeopardy of your party may be at risk, people you are responsible for. And there is no sure way to gauge speed, the party above may be slowing down for some reason. In fact in California there is a law that you have to pull over and let people pass, more so on a wall. If you are picking out a climb like the Nose of El Capitan or the Salathe wall or the Regular Route on Half Dome, and you know you are going to go slow, do not get on there if you don’t want to deal with people passing you.

However, I think there are exceptions. If the party that wants to pass consists of a more than 3 people who are not that much faster, or else if the party is inexperienced and will be potentially dropping gear, then no, they should not be allowed to pass. I don’t want anyone passing me whom I have to worry about them dropping gear on my head all day. They will need to wait until I am done or get into a physical altercation as I tie their rope to the wall. And if I am suspicious of them raining gear on me, I have a waver they need to sign first making them fully responsible for any damages thy cause by dropping gear on me or members of my party. You want to pass, and your new to climbing, you are going to take responsibility for the people under you if I let you pass.
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csproul


Jun 24, 2012, 1:29 PM
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Ten years later...I wonder if the pass has been made or not?


donaldjamesperry


Jun 25, 2012, 1:06 AM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8xweziIaUMo

first for 10 years on a wall you will need much water, perfect water


guangzhou


Jun 25, 2012, 3:19 AM
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Good conversation with no insults. Unusual on this site.


Passing while climbing is tricky and definitely situation dependent. I usually ask if my team is moving faster than the party and go with what they anwsr. I have been known topass after getting a "no."

A few years back my partner I decided we wanted to do a quick ascent of Royal Arches. The party ahead of us was above the bear hug pitch when we started on the first pitch. When we caught up to them we asked nicely if we could pass and they said "no" because we might slow them down. First chance we had we took a variation out right and got ahead of them.

We started the rappels before they finished the pendulum pitch. If we had waited behind them, would have been a long day for sure.

A similar experience happened on Snake Dike. We showed up to party packing up cam. One of three was pulling gear out and "racking up." We made polite conversation and they informed us they were there first and we needed to wait our turn. My partner and I left the valley floor after coffee in Yosemite Lodge, were at the base of the route before 9:00 and they were just breaking camp. We didn't think they were set-up to climb yet, but we agree they got there first. We climbed a different start, traversed into the route and we starting the death slab when their leader was reaching the second belay station. My partner and I were eating a salad int he lodge by 3:00 wondering what time they would summit.

A fast party on a really long route comes up on me, I let them pass. I just don't like feeling rushed by another party.


majid_sabet


Jul 21, 2012, 8:58 AM
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In autobahns, faster car drives on the left lane. If there is a faster party coming up, pull the side and let them pass you without given an attitude and don't be an ass about it . Same rules applies in high alt climbing where every step counts


potreroed


Jul 21, 2012, 10:23 AM
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[quote "zee"]Depends on the area and route. For example, in Yosemite on the long routes, acceptable practice due to bomber rock. Potrero Chico in Mexico, absolutely unacceptable, due to shite rock. If there is any possiblity of tearing rock, then my feeling is that passing or even climbing beneath another party is a dengerous practice and should be avoided. [/quote]

Since this thread has been resurrected I feel compelled to point out that historically Yosemite has had far more serious rock fall than the Potrero Chico.


chris


Aug 20, 2012, 8:27 PM
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There is a lot of grey in this subject. When the faster party catches the slower party, then both teams should COMMUNICATE. Ask if you can pass at the next convenient pitch (not the one with a hanging belay). The slower team should realize it will be more fun if they let the faster team pass, and the faster team should ease up to keep the stress down while passing.

I jokingly ask, "Do you mind if we play through?"

The easiest way is for the slower team to take a longer break while the faster team pulls through.

An easy (but advanced) way to do it is by sharing one pitch:
1. Slow leader goes first. Hopefully already mid-pitch by the time the faster team is completely at the anchor, so the wait is minimal.
2. Fast leader goes next. The leader can choose to add their own gear, but I've had a lot of success evaluating the gear (resetting or adding when necessary), and just adding a quickdraw or sling for my own rope.
3. The faster follower (the passing team) climbs next, cleaning whatever relevant equipment belongs to them.
4. Now, the faster team is able to take off on the next pitch before the slower follower comes up, cleaning the remaining gear.

Ka-pow!

i've only had to pass a team once in real frustration - they were going so slow that they ended up hiking out in the dark, and didn't want us to pass during the ascent because we may hold them back. I convinced them to let us pass (resorted to cussing at two belays), finished 2 pitches ahead, and we were back at the car before dark. Lesson I learned - its always easier to let a faster team pass than to be pressured to move faster than I'm comfortable with.

And that smiles and encouragement is more effective to get what I want than a frown and surliness.


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