|
dbrayack
Apr 6, 2007, 7:37 PM
Post #1 of 53
(24834 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 1260
|
Here's an anchoring article that may be a good resource for those looking to "get away from the big butt and hang on a rope"
http://www.brayackmedia.com/anchart1.html
Enjoy, and take some good shots!
-Dan
|
|
|
|
|
caughtinside
Apr 6, 2007, 7:44 PM
Post #2 of 53
(24821 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 30603
|
not a big nit-pick, but why do you advocate tying off one bolt, then clove hitching the next? Why not just equalize the two?
|
|
|
|
|
trenchdigger
Apr 6, 2007, 8:22 PM
Post #3 of 53
(24778 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 9, 2003
Posts: 1447
|
Static lines are easier to jug than dynamic. The decreased stretch also results in less chafing.
I agree with CI... why the clove/quickdraw & 8 on a bight (not "bite")? I prefer a double loop figure 8 to fix a line to a 2-bolt anchor. All you need is 2 biners to attach. To each his own...
With the subject of chafing in mind, you might want to mention padding edges and wear points.
When fixing a line directly to a tree, a tensionless hitch is generally the strongest and safest option. Why do you use a bowline?
I don't like the idea of the self-lowering rig. Too hard on the rope.
Personally, I feel it would be more helpful to people to provide little tips and tricks rather than just basic rigging. Anchoring a fixed line isn't rocket science. Tell us how you safely and comfortably carry your camera. Do you use a chest harness? Mention stuff like like setting up a tag line anchored out away from the base of the cliff so you can use it to pull yourself out and away from the rock. Two tag lines (one angling off in each direction) gives you lateral control as well. Put info in there that can't be found elsewhere.
(This post was edited by trenchdigger on Apr 6, 2007, 8:25 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
wes_allen
Apr 6, 2007, 8:23 PM
Post #4 of 53
(24773 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2002
Posts: 549
|
Looks pretty cool, but jugging a dynamic line the teh suck! I just bring in a 100 foot static and/or a 200 foot static, and use that. 100 is nice, since it is lighter, though you can't get down with just it usually.
|
|
|
|
|
dbrayack
Apr 6, 2007, 10:57 PM
Post #5 of 53
(24704 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 1260
|
Thanks for the info :)
|
|
|
|
|
dbrayack
Apr 6, 2007, 10:58 PM
Post #6 of 53
(24700 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 1260
|
Man, I've tried static, but the dynamic just goes so much smoother through the gri-gri and ascender.
Besides....its a pain to carry a static line out, + you have to haul it up.
On long ascends, I found that if I match the bouncing on the dynamic line, its actually easier.
|
|
|
|
|
dbrayack
Apr 6, 2007, 10:59 PM
Post #7 of 53
(24698 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 1260
|
I use the bowline because i can easily cinch it down so it doesn't slip up a tree. Also, its much much easier to un-tie after loading it HARD.
|
|
|
|
|
dbrayack
Apr 6, 2007, 11:02 PM
Post #8 of 53
(24696 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 1260
|
caughtinside wrote: not a big nit-pick, but why do you advocate tying off one bolt, then clove hitching the next? Why not just equalize the two?
I consider a one bolt anchor to not need the redundancy, but just to be sure, I clip the other incase of a failure (though more likely the rope breaking).
I found this is more efficient and uses only two biners. It seems that this type of anchoring is all about speed and efficiency. I have enough trouble getting models to wait for me to rig.
What do you think?
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Apr 7, 2007, 12:01 AM
Post #9 of 53
(24671 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
dbrayack wrote: I use the bowline because i can easily cinch it down so it doesn't slip up a tree. Also, its much much easier to un-tie after loading it HARD.
Dan, for the friction wrap on the tree mentioned above, the knot will never be loaded. It'll be even easier to untie than the bowline. I also prefer the two-loop fig-8 or atomic clip for double-bolt rope fixin' (assuming I trust the bolts, which isn't always a given). Both also require only two biners, and since there's only one knot to tie, I assume its faster than your method.
Mostly good stuff in that article, though! Thank you for being my camera tech support on numerous occasions!
(This post was edited by j_ung on Apr 7, 2007, 12:03 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
dbrayack
Apr 7, 2007, 12:18 AM
Post #10 of 53
(24661 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 1260
|
Thanks for the info; I'll revise the article.
|
|
|
|
|
pico23
Apr 7, 2007, 3:18 AM
Post #11 of 53
(24623 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 14, 2003
Posts: 2378
|
dbrayack wrote: Thanks for the info; I'll revise the article.
Nice work...info like this is tough to find. I have Jeff Achey's book but it includes far less on the rigging and far more on photography. Honestly, I'd love to see a climbing photo book just dedicated to climbing photo rigging.
I hate jugging dynamic myself but there are two ways to skin a cat (or something like that).
|
|
|
|
|
csgambill
Apr 7, 2007, 6:12 AM
Post #13 of 53
(24565 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 3, 2004
Posts: 607
|
Not sure how the hell i got logged in under ragnar17, but that was me. Weird...
ragnar17 wrote: You really shouldn't use a bowline for an anchor knot. When I anchor to trees for solo aiding the first pitch and such I prefer the method shown in my crappy little pic here: [image]www.csgambill.org/climbing/images/better.jpg[/image] |
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Apr 7, 2007, 12:48 PM
Post #14 of 53
(24518 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
I'm not sure I understand why that anchor needs to be so complicated, "ragnar." (Is that your troll account?  )
I prefer the friction wrap, too, but what's so wrong with a bowline that you "really shouldn't use" it? Also, why the webbing back-up to the climbing rope? To me it looks like it can only protect against the rope breaking where it wraps around the tree. Are you really worried about that?
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Apr 7, 2007, 12:49 PM
Post #15 of 53
(24515 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
Also, the rope in your diagram doesn't appear to have an end. Pretty sure I know what you intended to draw, though. 
Edited to laugh at you.
(This post was edited by j_ung on Apr 7, 2007, 12:50 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
wes_allen
Apr 7, 2007, 2:26 PM
Post #16 of 53
(24483 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2002
Posts: 549
|
What kind of static where you using? 11/12mm? Get a good 10 mm and it feeds just fine. And to me, the difference is night and day between the two. Eh, it isn't all the heavy to carry out or to trail behind when you are climbing, just think if it as training weight!
Also, with the one ascender + Gri - Gri setup, you can clip a biner through the top hole of the ascender and run the rope back through that to give you a two to one, which will help some as well.
One other point, is that you don't want to jug with any kind of back pack, without a chest harness. It will make things way harder. So, I usually haul my gear up if I think I will want to have a few lenses and both bodies up there with me. I jugged with all my stuff in a back pack once and it sucked.
dbrayack wrote: Man, I've tried static, but the dynamic just goes so much smoother through the gri-gri and ascender. Besides....its a pain to carry a static line out, + you have to haul it up. On long ascends, I found that if I match the bouncing on the dynamic line, its actually easier. |
|
|
|
|
csgambill
Apr 7, 2007, 2:30 PM
Post #17 of 53
(24482 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 3, 2004
Posts: 607
|
Just a matter of personal preference. Bowlines untie more easily than I'd like a an anchor knot to. It just doesn't offer the level of security I like. Now, given that I tie in almost exclusively with a bowline that sounds kind of stupid. Plus, if the bowline is under tension your knot probably isn't going anywhere. So, use whatever knot you want when making your anchors.
What you don't have one of those new endless ropes? Dude you've got to get with the times.
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Apr 7, 2007, 2:42 PM
Post #18 of 53
(24469 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
Hmm... maybe I can score one to review. 
|
|
|
|
|
guangzhou
Apr 7, 2007, 9:12 PM
Post #19 of 53
(24429 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 3389
|
A good start and rough draft, although I am not sure how of the information is all that valuable. Setting up a fixed line isn't that complicated.
One of you asked about a rigging book for photography. Instead of looking in the climbing photography books, look in the rescue/self rescue books. I too like Jeff's book, but I think it is dated and a newer version is needed. Maybe I should seat down and write one. Let me know what you would like to see in it...
I too love the bowline and recomend it. I use a retraced bowline for almost everything I do.
When fixing a line on two bolts, I sometimes put a clovehitch on each bolt too. I think one bolt is fine if it is back up, but I prefer to equalize most of the time. At the very least in put two opposite and apposed draws and hange from that. it's not equalized, but safer then a single bolt backed to another. (Not as much shock load if a bolt fails.)
Again, a nice rough draft, you could do a lot with this piece. I hope you develop it more. I will look into that book.
|
|
|
|
|
pico23
Apr 8, 2007, 12:11 AM
Post #20 of 53
(24387 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 14, 2003
Posts: 2378
|
I don't really think Jeffs book is dated.
I mean yes it's mostly film talk, but film translates to digital far better then digital to film.
I agree the self rescue stuff is probably a better place to look but it would be nice to have a book that cuts through all the crap and is just about climbing photography/rigging.
Like detailed instructions on how to make a bi-pod (as you noted not the complicated like a fixed line but thats what good books are for). I think Jeffs book explained it well but without any diagram, but I don't have the book handy, I just moved and it's still boxed so I'm not sure.
When things get detailed I like diagrams. Much easier to visualize a complicated (or seemingly complicated, yet simple) setup.
I guess picture Freedom of the Hills without the illustrations. Some of the stuff is simple but complex only in words. Jeffs book lacks the illustrations necessary to clearly see the setups.
On the flip side, my favorite photo book is galen rowells "Vision" which is the opposite. It explains photography without being a how to book. You basically take from it what you want, but it's not an instructional book even if it contains more useful info then most instructional books.
(This post was edited by pico23 on Apr 8, 2007, 12:13 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
trenchdigger
Apr 9, 2007, 2:38 PM
Post #21 of 53
(24333 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 9, 2003
Posts: 1447
|
dbrayack wrote: trenchdigger wrote: When fixing a line directly to a tree, a tensionless hitch is generally the strongest and safest option. Why do you use a bowline? I use the bowline because i can easily cinch it down so it doesn't slip up a tree. Also, its much much easier to un-tie after loading it HARD.
|
|
|
|
|
rocknice2
Apr 9, 2007, 3:00 PM
Post #22 of 53
(24313 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 13, 2006
Posts: 1221
|
The rigging is fine. Most of the time it's a matter of preference or circustance. One thing I would like to add is that if jugging a fixed line that goes over an edge it a good idea to make a rebelay.
A Rebelay is to tie-off the nearest pro under edge with a clove hitch(or other preferred knot)
|
|
|
|
|
dbrayack
Apr 10, 2007, 12:01 PM
Post #23 of 53
(24234 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 1260
|
rocknice2 wrote: The rigging is fine. Most of the time it's a matter of preference or circustance. One thing I would like to add is that if jugging a fixed line that goes over an edge it a good idea to make a rebelay. A Rebelay is to tie-off the nearest pro under edge with a clove hitch(or other preferred knot)
Excellent Suggestion...I've been thinking about that a lot....I do, infact, try to pad the edge, but it usually doesn't happen. I just have my "old haul" line that I use and abuse.
-Dan
|
|
|
|
|
guangzhou
Apr 10, 2007, 10:36 PM
Post #24 of 53
(24147 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 3389
|
rocknice2 wrote: The rigging is fine. Most of the time it's a matter of preference or circustance. One thing I would like to add is that if jugging a fixed line that goes over an edge it a good idea to make a rebelay. A Rebelay is to tie-off the nearest pro under edge with a clove hitch(or other preferred knot)
Very true.
If you are shooting from a fixed line often, I recomend you make yourself a bolsoms chair to sit on. You can hange the chair from a Jumar, shunt, or pruick and seat comfortably instead of hanging in your harness the whole time.
|
|
|
|
|
codhands
Apr 10, 2007, 11:47 PM
Post #25 of 53
(24112 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 21, 2005
Posts: 499
|
guangzhou wrote: I recomend you make yourself a bolsoms chair
Not trying to be a dick, but it's boson chair.
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
