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Yet another Improved(?) Equalette idea...
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the_climber


May 11, 2007, 1:02 PM
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Re: [trenchdigger] Yet another Improved(?) Equalette idea... [In reply to]
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There is definitely potential for a good anchor system here.

In reply to:
The only reason I made one strand slightly shorter was to make it simple to clip 2 of the three. A slight difference in length shouldn't make a difference. In fact, it might make the system slightly stronger because it will prevent the knot from being loaded directly onto the carabiner. That's another thing I'd like to test in a load cell.

Interesting thoughts. It would propably be a good idea to have the difference as minimal as practical to not load the knots. You would also have to determine which knot would be most effective/safest.

Having it prerigged like a quad would be the way to go. Looks like it would be easy enough to suppliment with a sling for anchors with more than 2 or 3 peices.... addaptable in that sence maybe.

I think I'll reserve my other thought for now untill I can rig up a couple mock anchors to test a couple ideas... I may have a solution to the ideal knot, but I'm not sure yet (computer wires are not ideal to mock with).


And Majid, I don't think this is another cluster f$ck of a system, it has the potential to be much more simple than a quad. And, this IS what the Lab forum is for... to through ideas on the table and discuss, to see what better or alternative ways there are to make climbing as safe as possible. I've yet to find one way to rig an anchor that I use even 70% of the time... every situation is different. just go with the flow on this one as se what "possitive ideas" you can come up with. OK?

B


trenchdigger


May 11, 2007, 1:03 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Yet another Improved(?) Equalette idea... [In reply to]
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This system is no more complex than the equalette. It is functionally equivalent, except with respect to how you clip into it. The only real difference is at the master point. And I believe the master point of this setup is simpler to use and therefore less prone to mistakes or complaisant improper use.


trenchdigger


May 11, 2007, 1:07 PM
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Re: [the_climber] Yet another Improved(?) Equalette idea... [In reply to]
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the_climber wrote:
Interesting thoughts. It would propably be a good idea to have the difference as minimal as practical to not load the knots. You would also have to determine which knot would be most effective/safest.

Having it prerigged like a quad would be the way to go. Looks like it would be easy enough to suppliment with a sling for anchors with more than 2 or 3 peices.... addaptable in that sence maybe.

I think I'll reserve my other thought for now untill I can rig up a couple mock anchors to test a couple ideas... I may have a solution to the ideal knot, but I'm not sure yet (computer wires are not ideal to mock with).


And Majid, I don't think this is another cluster f$ck of a system, it has the potential to be much more simple than a quad. And, this IS what the Lab forum is for... to through ideas on the table and discuss, to see what better or alternative ways there are to make climbing as safe as possible. I've yet to find one way to rig an anchor that I use even 70% of the time... every situation is different. just go with the flow on this one as se what "possitive ideas" you can come up with. OK?

B

Thanks. I'd love to see the knot(s) you come up with. With a little luck, I'll be able to pull test some ideas and see what is best.

Majid doesn't like me because I always give him shit. He does post an occasional valid and productive point though. If nothing more than for his entertainment value, he's a beloved contributor to these forums.


helios


May 11, 2007, 1:13 PM
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Re: [trenchdigger] Yet another Improved(?) Equalette idea... [In reply to]
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trenchdigger wrote:
helios wrote:
Would it be better to clip into the strand going from anchor to anchor (what you have drawn as the top strand) and have one of the strands near the end be the third, backup, loop?

I used a quad for multipitch sport at Potrero this year, and it was easy to use and felt super secure clipping into 2 of the four strands for a power point.

Ideally, it shouldn't matter which 2 of the three strands you clip, so long as the knot properly fixes the line.

I agree with your sentiment on the Quad. It's just bulky overkill. This takes only about 60% of the cord required for a Quad. This is my attempt at finding something simpler.

Thanks for your feedback.

My point wasn't to suggest you use the quad, just to be clear. But rather to point out the similarities with the two regarding their powerpoints. I have only played around with the equallette at home, and am only now starting to lead trad, but I don't like the double biner powerpoint of the equallette thus far either.


the_climber


May 11, 2007, 1:16 PM
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Re: [trenchdigger] Yet another Improved(?) Equalette idea... [In reply to]
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trenchdigger wrote:
Thanks. I'd love to see the knot(s) you come up with. With a little luck, I'll be able to pull test some ideas and see what is best.

If I have some time this weekend to get out climbing (providing my ideas prove safe and viable) I will try some field testing... with redundant, overkill, and safe backups that I would winch my truck off of.Wink

trenchdigger wrote:
Majid doesn't like me because I always give him shit. He does post an occasional valid and productive point though. If nothing more than for his entertainment value, he's a beloved contributor to these forums.

Which is why I was also pointing out the idea behind having a "Lab" Forum. He does have some great point ever once and a while. Constuctive input is the key!

I'll be offline for the weekend, so hopefully I'll have worked out a few things by Monday!
(Experimenting is to much fun!)


trenchdigger


May 11, 2007, 1:20 PM
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Re: [the_climber] Yet another Improved(?) Equalette idea... [In reply to]
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Sweet... Have fun and take some pix if you can.


majid_sabet


May 11, 2007, 1:44 PM
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Re: [trenchdigger] Yet another Improved(?) Equalette idea... [In reply to]
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trenchdigger wrote:
the_climber wrote:
Interesting thoughts. It would propably be a good idea to have the difference as minimal as practical to not load the knots. You would also have to determine which knot would be most effective/safest.

Having it prerigged like a quad would be the way to go. Looks like it would be easy enough to suppliment with a sling for anchors with more than 2 or 3 peices.... addaptable in that sence maybe.

I think I'll reserve my other thought for now untill I can rig up a couple mock anchors to test a couple ideas... I may have a solution to the ideal knot, but I'm not sure yet (computer wires are not ideal to mock with).


And Majid, I don't think this is another cluster f$ck of a system, it has the potential to be much more simple than a quad. And, this IS what the Lab forum is for... to through ideas on the table and discuss, to see what better or alternative ways there are to make climbing as safe as possible. I've yet to find one way to rig an anchor that I use even 70% of the time... every situation is different. just go with the flow on this one as se what "possitive ideas" you can come up with. OK?

B

Thanks. I'd love to see the knot(s) you come up with. With a little luck, I'll be able to pull test some ideas and see what is best.

Majid doesn't like me because I always give him shit. He does post an occasional valid and productive point though. If nothing more than for his entertainment value, he's a beloved contributor to these forums.

I am glade you admit that you give me hard time on every post but I hate no one on this site or any where else. Anyway, build your anchor for the job not just because the book said so.


(This post was edited by majid_sabet on May 11, 2007, 2:39 PM)


trenchdigger


May 11, 2007, 1:52 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Yet another Improved(?) Equalette idea... [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
I am glade you admit that you give me hard time on every post but I hate no one on this site or any where else.

I didn't say you didn't deserve it! Tongue

majid_sabet wrote:
Anyway, build your anchor for the job not just because the book said so.
Quoted for emphasis... most definitely.

Nice anchor pix, but I don't see one equalette in there. This thread is about the equalette - more specifically, my "improved" equalette. Post images for the thread, not because they're good images.

Copyright TD


rocknice2


May 11, 2007, 2:00 PM
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Re: [trenchdigger] Yet another Improved(?) Equalette idea... [In reply to]
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trenchdigger wrote:
Nice anchor pix, but I don't see one equalette in there. This thread is about the equalette - more specifically, my "improved" equalette.

That's jumping the gun a bit . I would say "modified". The jury is still out.

To the person using majid_sabet's computer: Where is Majid and what have you done with him?Wink


majid_sabet


May 11, 2007, 2:02 PM
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Re: [rocknice2] Yet another Improved(?) Equalette idea... [In reply to]
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yap


(This post was edited by majid_sabet on May 11, 2007, 2:33 PM)


binrat


May 11, 2007, 2:27 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Yet another Improved(?) Equalette idea... [In reply to]
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Majid,
$2200 and eight days, is that for a Rigging for Rescue course??


majid_sabet


May 11, 2007, 2:36 PM
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Re: [binrat] Yet another Improved(?) Equalette idea... [In reply to]
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binrat wrote:
Majid,
$2200 and eight days, is that for a Rigging for Rescue course??

I will make it back this summer by given a class making $6000 in 5 days .

How about that !!!!


(This post was edited by majid_sabet on May 11, 2007, 3:09 PM)


rocknice2


May 11, 2007, 2:55 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Yet another Improved(?) Equalette idea... [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
yap

you.....Post then delete it all.....



WELCOME back Majid!



Someone been use your computer.


majid_sabet


May 11, 2007, 3:06 PM
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Re: [rocknice2] Yet another Improved(?) Equalette idea... [In reply to]
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rocknice2 wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
yap

you.....Post then delete it all.....



WELCOME back Majid!



Someone been use your computer.

I paid with my frozen hands for those photos , can't just leave them out there for every one plus he said, " those images are not related to his topic " so I took them back.


(This post was edited by majid_sabet on May 11, 2007, 3:07 PM)


rocknice2


May 11, 2007, 3:11 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Yet another Improved(?) Equalette idea... [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
rocknice2 wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
yap

you.....Post then delete it all.....



WELCOME back Majid!



Someone been use your computer.

I paid with my frozen hands for those photos , can't just leave them out there for every one plus he said, " those images are not related to his topic " so I took them back.

Bring back the other guy


billl7


May 11, 2007, 3:46 PM
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Re: [trenchdigger] Yet another Improved(?) Equalette idea... [In reply to]
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Just for the historical record, there was a proposal to do something very similar in this thread (subj: Equalette Concern?). However, the main thrust then was concern about all the loading going to one strand if everything was not equal. One novel point in the current thread is that of working with the equalette at a hanging belay.


(This post was edited by billl7 on May 11, 2007, 4:08 PM)


moose_droppings


May 11, 2007, 5:11 PM
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Re: [trenchdigger] Yet another Improved(?) Equalette idea... [In reply to]
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If its only a 2 point anchor and you want extra and redundant master point, maybe this could work, seems simple enough too.

Take your regular 20' cordelette, make a half twist in it to make two large loops and hang them to your 2 anchor points.


Then pull down the center between the two points,


And tie off two overhand limiter knots on each leg,


Equalizes easily and has four strands at the master point.
Just a doubled up slidingX with limiter knots


mike_ok


May 11, 2007, 5:31 PM
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Copied from the other thread:

In reply to:
In these discussions on the merits of the cordalette and equalette, little mention has been made lately of the web-o-lette.

I swithed to the web-o-lette several years back and won't bother to sing its praises over the cordalette (there are many), but I'm wondering why, when the web-o-lette is out there, people seem to be switching to the equalette lately. Is there some advantage to the equalette I'm missing? I suppose if you already have long enough cord currently tied in a cordalette and you just want to retie in the equalette - fine...

http://mountaintools.com/cat/mt/webolette/webolette.html

As I'm reading through this - is the issue that you are trying to stay away from having a single master-point? In terms of having more points to clip into, I see why you would want this, but in terms of shock loading the point if you were to lose on of your anchor points - this wouldn't happen with the web-o-lette... so I' still like to see its merits judged alongside these.


majid_sabet


May 11, 2007, 6:36 PM
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Re: [mike_ok] Yet another Improved(?) Equalette idea... [In reply to]
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Instead of increasing its strength, letís just add another 9 extra knot in there

What do you think?

[URL=http://imageshack.us]


moose_droppings


May 11, 2007, 6:44 PM
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I'd leave the Double Fishermans in there thats ties the cordelette together.


billl7


May 11, 2007, 7:11 PM
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Re: [moose_droppings] Yet another Improved(?) Equalette idea... [In reply to]
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moose_droppings wrote:
Equalizes easily and has four strands at the master point. Just a doubled up slidingX with limiter knots
Long calls it the "Quad" in the Long/Gaines anchor book. Great minds think alike, eh?Wink


(This post was edited by billl7 on May 11, 2007, 7:12 PM)


moose_droppings


May 11, 2007, 7:18 PM
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What is this thing you call a "book".

Smile


trenchdigger


May 11, 2007, 7:19 PM
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Exactly. The drawback is that it uses almost twice as much cord as the idea I proposed and it way bulky. And yes, it does achieve the same end goal.


billl7


May 11, 2007, 7:37 PM
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Re: [moose_droppings] Yet another Improved(?) Equalette idea... [In reply to]
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moose_droppings wrote:
What is this thing you call a "book".
Smile
Aye, and this is real reason why trad leaders climb multipitch on big mountains - they must because they can't read the road signs leading the way around. Cool


billl7


May 11, 2007, 7:41 PM
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Re: [trenchdigger] Yet another Improved(?) Equalette idea... [In reply to]
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trenchdigger wrote:
Exactly. The drawback is that it uses almost twice as much cord as the idea I proposed and it way bulky. And yes, it does achieve the same end goal.
I've used the Quad exactly once and I felt sheepish with all that horsepower on a TR anchor. I might use it more if I climbed only multipitch routes that had two-bolt anchors everywhere.

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