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chossmonkey
Oct 26, 2007, 10:51 PM
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- "No matter who you know, how safe they may be, or what they are climbing - you could lose a friend at any time. Don't take your friendships for granted."- Darkside
Ordinarily I'm not that inclined to plug gear into the rock around here. In general Ontario slimestone is geologically unstable choss at best. But when Voytek (tradrenn) offered to head up north for the weekend and do some 'sportclimbing' and belay me on my summer's project, I had to bite. A weekend away sportclimbing with Voytek generally means climbing the gear lines at the sport crag, but that was fine. I like climbing on gear well enough, in fact my project was one of the few nice cracks at a sport crag. The cracks which we would be climbing had some of the best rock on the Escarpment.
Sunday morning went well. Since Saturday was devoted to my climbing we went to a different cliff to do some routes Voytek wanted to get on. We worked our way down the cliff, climbing the nicest looking lines. Near the end of the cliff we came to a route I had scoped out earlier in the year and was interested in doing, "Excalibur". The crack is unlike most on the Escarpment. While most are very irregular on vertical faces loaded with holds and ledges, this one split the overhanging face in a fairly clean line. Since it was his day and he was climbing strong I encouraged him to try something a bit harder and offered the lead to Voytek. In hindsight I am very thankful he declined.
I grabbed the rack and sorted out the gear I thought I'd need. The cracked looked to be mostly my nemesis...thin hands. Down low the crack was quite thin and as it gained height it opened up. The route was only around 40' or so feet long so I felt a little silly heading up with the pile of gear I was bringing, but in this kind of rock I tend to over protect.
The start wasn't to bad. I placed a couple of nuts in the thin section before the crack opened up and then committed to the steep crack above. I did a couple of moves and then placed my first cam, a .5 C4. A couple feet above that I fired in a second cam, a .75 C4. I thought to myself, "This is starting to look like an aid route!" but since I had the gear and the ground was so close it only made sense.
Near the halfway point there was a bit of a rail to the side of the crack where I could hang out for a minute and collect my thoughts before heading into the thin hands section. I grabbed a #1 off the rack and put it into the crack beside me. Voytek pointed out that I should move it up a little and give myself a mini toprope. So I took it out and moved it up a foot or so in the now nearly perfectly parallel sided crack. I looked down at the cams near my feet. I looked up at the cam right above me. They all looked great. They all looked bomber. The rock was nice and compact. There weren't any of the little bumps and crystals that are normally in Escarpment cracks that tend to break off compromising the placement.
  
I slid my left hand into the crack as deep as it would go below the #1 and committed to the climbing above. My right hand went in above the #1 and I torqued it in and pulled out my left hand to move up. While my left hand was moving up my right hand slipped out of the crack and I was falling. No big deal, I had been sewing the route up and had gear right in front of me.
As quickly as I had started to fall I saw the first cam pull right out. "SHIT!!" I thought to myself, "That's okay the next one will catch me." I thought as the next two ripped out a split second later while I was looking down at the jagged talus rapidly approaching.
"Fuck!!!!!, NO!!!!, I can't be laying here on the ground. This couldn't have just happened. Rebecca (granite_grrl) had come so far getting back her confidence since her accident and now I just fucked all that up." Ran though my head and possibly out my mouth as I lay on the ground.
Voytek in shock asks the question everyone does, "Are you okay?!?!?!?!!!!"
"FUCK!!!, I don't know!" I blurted back in pain. I started to move around and could see the gash on the back of my leg staring to bleed. My ankle felt like it was smashed and my right butt cheek and lower back felt like it had been ripped wide open.
"What the fuck happened?" We asked each other. I had never felt the rope start to catch and it hardly even pulled tight on Voytek's end. He later described it as the pull you would feel catching the softest TR fall. I had just fallen 25' or so straight down onto the talus and except for the sound of the cams ripping out you would have never known they were there. The rope drooped down from the top nut and all three cams hung from it in front of me.
As I shifted around the talus in pain we did a quick check. My ankle hurt like hell but didn't seem broken. My ass/pelvis hurt but I could at least still move my legs okay and my butt cheek wasn't ripped wide open. My head, neck, arms, torso, and the parts of my legs that weren't screaming in pain seemed okay. Thankfully I had a small first-aid kit in the bottom of my pack. After Rebecca's fall I really wondered what a few bandages would do if I or my partner got hurt but it was so small of a kit it didn't take much effort to have while cragging. Voytek dug it out and opened it up. Almost all of the antiseptic wipes were completely dried up, expired ten years ago. At the very bottom we found two alcohol swabs we could use to clean up the biggest cuts. The anti-bacterial cream was way past its prime as well, but still seemed okay. At that point Voytek decided that maybe one of those rubber gloves wouldn't be such a bad idea for smearing the cream onto my bloody wounds. The tape for bandaging was pretty dried up as well. Luckily we had a roll of athletic tape to attach the two big bandages I had put in the kit. After a bit of patching up and I was able to limp out. In the end I never went to the doctor. Thankfully my injuries were limited to a severely bruised heal, a very bruised ass, a couple of cuts and some big scrapes.
The photo above was taken when I got home before all the blood started really coming to the surface the next day.
As the mood shifted from an emergency to just us needing to get out. We took some time to look at what may have happened but any conclusion at this point is all just speculation. Looking at the cams they still appeared fine. Looking closer, on the lobes we could see where the cams had slid across the rock. There were some scratches but the thing we noticed that looked odd was some green residue, perhaps algae on the lobes where the cams had slid on the rock.
The crack felt dry as I climbed it. But there was a cool draft coming out and it had also rained the day before, perhaps sliming things up enough to effect the friction of the cams against the otherwise reasonably frictioned rock. We debated whether or not teeth on the cams would have made any difference, making a place for the grit to go to rather than helping the cams slide along.
The reflection of the flash really washed out a bunch of the pictures. Since they are Voytek's cams I won't be able to get new pictures until this weekend or next. We didn't get a chance to look inside the crack to see if they had gouged the rock at all or just slid right out. I'm seriously doubting if they would have even held body weight.
While I walked away with minimal injury, I also walked away with a serious reminder of how dangerous climbing really is. Even on a seemingly 'safe' route there are still going to be things that can go wrong.
What I learned from this:
Two seemingly bomber pieces between me and the deck are not always going to keep me off of it.
Cams in seemingly perfect cracks can still be trash, especially when the rock doesn't have excellent friction.
Experienced climbers do rip gear and hit the ground on routes that aren't 'R' or 'X' rated. Not that they are careless or not paying attention, but nobody can know everything and foresee every scenario. Had Voytek tried he would have likely faced the same thing and not expected it.
While perhaps breaking gear or the rock around a placement might slow you down some, poor gear ripping out of the rock does nothing to slow you down.
Have a first-aid kit with bandages for major cuts or scrapes and make sure the supplies in it are still good.
(This post was edited by chossmonkey on Nov 2, 2007, 2:04 PM)
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onceahardman
Oct 26, 2007, 11:02 PM
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chossy...holy cow....i'm glad you're OK.
where is "excalibur"???
sounds familiar, and i've climbed quite a bit of ontario limestone.
cams in limestone...i've always hated them. i ALWAYS set them hard, but it doesn't really guarantee anything.
like i said, i'm glad you are OK. back on the horse soon, i hope.
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zeke_sf
Oct 26, 2007, 11:24 PM
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Good to hear you are alright, given how bad things could have gone. Thanks for sharing your experience. Wherever this thread ends up going, it is wise advice to watch your ass no matter how experienced you are! No more mEATBOMZING the Talus, kay?
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caughtinside
Oct 26, 2007, 11:27 PM
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That is super crazy dude, really glad you are ok.
I can't see the photos, so sorry if they explain my questions:
It sounds like the #1 was close to your waist when you fell? And all three cams were within say 8 feet of each other or so?
wild.
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granite_grrl
Oct 26, 2007, 11:37 PM
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You can right click and go to show photos. They are loaded onto my pbase account, which doesn't always show photos in RC.com very well.
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artm
Oct 26, 2007, 11:39 PM
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You and becs are two of the luckiest people around.
Both in having each other and surviving decking out.
Glad you only suffered such minor injuries.
Thanks for posting this report with such honesty and cool self/gear analysis. Food for thought Kids....
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chossmonkey
Oct 27, 2007, 12:49 AM
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onceahardman wrote: chossy...holy cow....i'm glad you're OK. where is "excalibur"??? sounds familiar, and i've climbed quite a bit of ontario limestone. cams in limestone...i've always hated them. i ALWAYS set them hard, but it doesn't really guarantee anything. like i said, i'm glad you are OK. back on the horse soon, i hope.
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gothcopter
Oct 27, 2007, 12:51 AM
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When you placed the cams, did you tug on them at all, or just clip and go? I'm not pointing any fingers here, just genuinely curious. Don't freak out on me, people.
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chossmonkey
Oct 27, 2007, 12:58 AM
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caughtinside wrote: It sounds like the #1 was close to your waist when you fell? And all three cams were within say 8 feet of each other or so? wild.
Yeah, all the cams were within around 8' feet. It is possible if I wouldn't have had the top cam as high and the extra rope out the top nut might have started to catch before I hit, but as it was the rope did nothing for me.
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angry
Oct 27, 2007, 1:03 AM
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That's why I only carry stovelegs on cracks like this.
Good job not dying. I've never been a fan of bolts, but I've never been a fan of limestone either. I'll file that away for future reference.
Don't let this wreck you for good rock though.
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chossmonkey
Oct 27, 2007, 1:06 AM
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gothcopter wrote: When you placed the cams, did you tug on them at all, or just clip and go? I'm not pointing any fingers here, just genuinely curious. Don't freak out on me, people.
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chossmonkey
Oct 27, 2007, 1:11 AM
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angry wrote: That's why I only carry stovelegs on cracks like this. Good job not dying. I've never been a fan of bolts, but I've never been a fan of limestone either. I'll file that away for future reference. Don't let this wreck you for good rock though. 
Normally I'm not to psyched on limestone, but this stuff looked really good. I guess it goes to show looks are deceiving.
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knieveltech
Oct 27, 2007, 1:14 AM
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That fucking blows, man. Glad you're more or less in one piece. Thanks for posting up what happened, this is definitely food for thought.
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bent_gate
Oct 27, 2007, 3:39 AM
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Wow. I'm glad your still walking, that is scary stuff.
And thanks for the warning for others. It may save a life. Limestone has a pretty checkered history for gear. I hope you fully heal fast!
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snoopy138
Oct 27, 2007, 5:56 AM
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Good to hear you're generally alright after the mEATDECKing. I assume you'll be back climbing soon enough.
I agree with you about thin hands, too.
The photo of your ass could really use a NSFW tag.
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climbs4fun
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Oct 27, 2007, 6:18 AM
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Glad you are ok. I can't see the pics either. I tried right clicking Beck, but it gave me an error of no permission.
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jt512
Oct 27, 2007, 8:09 AM
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angry wrote: That's why I only carry stovelegs on cracks like this. Good job not dying. I've never been a fan of bolts, but I've never been a fan of limestone either.
Yeah, who'd ever want to climb on limestone :roll:
Jay
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microbarn
Oct 27, 2007, 12:12 PM
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Glad to hear that nothing is broken. Hopefully you heal quickly.
gothcopter wrote: When you placed the cams, did you tug on them at all, or just clip and go? I'm not pointing any fingers here, just genuinely curious. Don't freak out on me, people.
I am curious about why people think tugging on the pieces is bad. So, I created this thread to discuss it:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=1708956#1708956
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chossmonkey
Oct 27, 2007, 12:48 PM
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snoopy138 wrote: Good to hear you're generally alright after the mEATDECKing. I assume you'll be back climbing soon enough. I agree with you about thin hands, too. The photo of your ass could really use a NSFW tag.
Yeah I'll be back climbing. I'm not sure about on gear in this rock though.
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chossmonkey
Oct 27, 2007, 12:49 PM
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climbs4fun wrote: Glad you are ok. I can't see the pics either. I tried right clicking Beck, but it gave me an error of no permission.
I rehosted the photos so hopefully they will work now.
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wanderlustmd
Oct 27, 2007, 2:24 PM
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Wow.
I've never climbed on limestone, so I'll definately remember this when faced with the using gear on it.
Thanks for the report Choss, glad to hear you walked away mostly unscathed. Good food for though as well.
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gunkiemike
Oct 27, 2007, 2:37 PM
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I can't see the photos. I get an error that says This geoCities site in unavailable - exceeding its data transfer limit.
Glad to hear you walked away from this accident. Cams in limestone..shiver.
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notapplicable
Oct 27, 2007, 3:03 PM
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Thanks for the report Choss. Based on those photos, it looks like your going to be walking funny for a few days but atleast your walking. Your a luck bastard, glad your OK.
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bmelanson
Oct 27, 2007, 3:30 PM
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glad your ok choss, I hope ya get a quick recovery
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tradrenn
Oct 27, 2007, 7:06 PM
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chossmonkey wrote: Voytek in shock asks the question everyone does, "Are you okay?!?!?!?!!!!"
Now I remember why I asked you that.
Back in 96 I took CPR and one of the things I learn was to ask that question.
If you can speak than that tells me that you can breath which is the most important thing in accident scene.
I still have those 3 cams separated and I didn't clean them so you will have a second chance to take pics and post them if you would like. (BTW: I will be at your place Thursday evening, NOT FRIDAY)
If you wanna go back up to Excalibur and do some investigation tomorrow (Sunday) just show up at my place around 8am, we take my car from my place.
I think we should go and set a top rope on it and try to aid it on top rope using your and my cams and see if they rip on a bounce test.
Holy fuck am I ever glad I turn the lead down, that would probably ruin my RT.
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jms
Oct 27, 2007, 8:17 PM
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jebus nathan!! I'm glad to hear you're ok...you guys definitely have horseshoes up your butts.. has this cured your ontario gear problem yet??
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tradrenn
Oct 27, 2007, 9:52 PM
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jms wrote: has this cured your ontario gear problem yet??
No.
It's all good up to 5.9 and if you don't fall.
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chossmonkey
Oct 28, 2007, 1:39 AM
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tradrenn wrote: jms wrote: has this cured your ontario gear problem yet?? No. It's all good up to 5.9 and if you don't fall.
There is still one route left that I need to finish before I hang up the rack in S.On
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camhead
Oct 28, 2007, 2:16 AM
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duuuude... glad you're all right. I'm also psyched that you got a quality m34tbOmb out of the whole thing. We really need to start incorporating that term into the climbing lexicon.
H3LL 1z sHRt3r 4 cH0ssMonkY!!!11
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clausti
Oct 28, 2007, 2:19 AM
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holy shit.
massive congrats on being walking and breathing and everything.
i hope i get to climb with you someday and GG again... paul and i agree that we are not trad climbing with you in canada, though, sorry.
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brent_e
Oct 28, 2007, 3:28 AM
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Hey Nate,
sent you an email. I'm glad you're alright. it's odd that you didn't feel munge in the crack but there is munge on the cams.
heal quick, man.
Brent
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dominic7
Oct 28, 2007, 10:09 PM
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Good work on making it through more or less in one piece! Looks like you'll be gimping around for a bit on that foot.
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epoch
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Oct 29, 2007, 1:07 AM
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Holy hand grenade Nathan!
glad you made it out only minorly unscathed. Though if you could have, would you have gone to the hospital to get an x-ray, just in case. Impact injuries are not fun at all. Plus, the risk that your ASR masked the severity of the injury only adds to the probability of a more complicated injury.
I have always been reallly cautious when placing gear in slimestone. I've seen some nasty shit happen to others when similar stuff happened.
Get better, slowly.
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tradrenn
Oct 29, 2007, 1:44 AM
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chossmonkey wrote: tradrenn wrote: jms wrote: has this cured your ontario gear problem yet?? No. It's all good up to 5.9 and if you don't fall. Its all good if you don't fall. There is still one route left that I need to finish before I hang up the rack in S.On
I admire your determination man.
I know you will get the Monument, you almost did when I was there with you.
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philbox
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Oct 29, 2007, 3:36 AM
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Take pics of the crack too if you can narrow down where the cams scraped out.
Well developed accident report mate, top stuff.
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granite_grrl
Oct 29, 2007, 11:51 AM
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epoch wrote: Holy hand grenade Nathan! glad you made it out only minorly unscathed. Though if you could have, would you have gone to the hospital to get an x-ray, just in case. Impact injuries are not fun at all. Plus, the risk that your ASR masked the severity of the injury only adds to the probability of a more complicated injury. I have always been reallly cautious when placing gear in slimestone. I've seen some nasty shit happen to others when similar stuff happened. Get better, slowly.
I agree about the x-rays, etc. And Nathan just got his madical pass letter and should be able to get covered by Ontario medical care now....once he gets that health card he has no more excuses.
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chossmonkey
Oct 29, 2007, 12:09 PM
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philbox wrote: Take pics of the crack too if you can narrow down where the cams scraped out. Well developed accident report mate, top stuff.
Once we started talking about it while still at the base of the cliff I knew I had a unique opportunity and should do my best to document it. I hope everyone who reads the report can at least gain something from it.
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chossmonkey
Oct 29, 2007, 12:45 PM
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granite_grrl wrote: epoch wrote: Holy hand grenade Nathan! glad you made it out only minorly unscathed. Though if you could have, would you have gone to the hospital to get an x-ray, just in case. Impact injuries are not fun at all. Plus, the risk that your ASR masked the severity of the injury only adds to the probability of a more complicated injury. I have always been reallly cautious when placing gear in slimestone. I've seen some nasty shit happen to others when similar stuff happened. Get better, slowly. I agree about the x-rays, etc. And Nathan just got his madical pass letter and should be able to get covered by Ontario medical care now....once he gets that health card he has no more excuses.
Whats an ASR?
I have insurance and I could have went if I really felt there was something wrong. One of my thoughts not put into the report was, "Where is the closest ER?". When I hit I thought for sure I would need to go. After things calmed down I decided that going to the ER would likely cause more commotion than it was worth. We had about 4 hours from starting the walk out to drive to Voytek's place so he could keep an eye on me and get help if I needed it. I felt well enough when we got there I drove home the rest of the way and called Voytek when I got home. Rebecca could keep an eye on me through the night and get me to a hospital if things changed.
I never hit my head (yes Majid, I was wearing my helmet) or torso so I figured the chances of internal injuries were quite low. I will admit that the thought of internal bleeding crossed my mind, but rationalized (rational or not) that my feet and ass absorbed almost all of the fall. If there were any strains, sprains or fractures they obviously weren't to bad and could wait.
Compounding things was the fact that Rebecca's mother was here visiting. I decided that making a big deal of it would cause far to many new problems. As it is her Father is completely paranoid of us climbing and her mother barely accepts it. As long as I didn't put weight on my heel I could walk okayish and I just had to really suck it up for a few days until she left. As far as we know Rebecca's mom never noticed.
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chossmonkey
Oct 29, 2007, 12:52 PM
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epoch wrote: I have always been reallly cautious when placing gear in slimestone. I've seen some nasty shit happen to others when similar stuff happened.
I figured that I should add that I have usually always been very cautious too. The rock there seemed really good and perhaps I let my guard down? Rebecca and Voytek got the same feeling from the rock. Normally neither is to jazzed about climbing gear on this shit but both were seduced into climbing at this cliff because of the seemingly good rock. That's why I thought it was so important to post all of this.
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andypro
Oct 29, 2007, 2:22 PM
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brent_e wrote: it's odd that you didn't feel munge in the crack but there is munge on the cams.
First and foremost: Glad you're ok! Dying really puts a damper on peoples good moods. Cut that out!
Second: Brents comment made me think of something. Theres a cave at kelso that has really cold air coming out of it. Cold moist air. When I've climbed around the mouth, The cold air makes the moisture condense on my gear because it cools off fast due to the aluminum of it all.
You said that there was a slight breeze coming out of the crack. Could have been the same scenario as the above mentioned spot. The slime could have been a VERY thin layer, and dried out, but the air made water condense out of the air onto the aluminum and reconstituted the slime just enough to make everything slick as snot.
Obviously this is just wild conjecture and by no means any kind of proper analysis, but it would explain why you didn't feel the slime with your hands, but it was on the cams.
Again, glad you're ok.
--Andy P
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zeke_sf
Oct 29, 2007, 2:36 PM
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camhead wrote: duuuude... glad you're all right. I'm also psyched that you got a quality m34tbOmb out of the whole thing. We really need to start incorporating that term into the climbing lexicon. H3LL 1z sHRt3r 4 cH0ssMonkY!!!11
That's what we've been trying to tell everybody via t3h b_et!!!
U m3ATBOMZ on l1m3st00n & lwering 1z shrter!!!
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chossmonkey
Oct 29, 2007, 3:27 PM
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andypro wrote: Second: Brents comment made me think of something. Theres a cave at kelso that has really cold air coming out of it. Cold moist air. When I've climbed around the mouth, The cold air makes the moisture condense on my gear because it cools off fast due to the aluminum of it all. You said that there was a slight breeze coming out of the crack. Could have been the same scenario as the above mentioned spot. The slime could have been a VERY thin layer, and dried out, but the air made water condense out of the air onto the aluminum and reconstituted the slime just enough to make everything slick as snot. Obviously this is just wild conjecture and by no means any kind of proper analysis, but it would explain why you didn't feel the slime with your hands, but it was on the cams.
Yeah, that is something similar to what I was thinking but I don't think moisture would condense on the cams since they would have been warmer. I feel fairly confident the cool air or the rain or possibly a combination of the two had a lot to do with it. Or maybe it was just the thin layer of dried munge inside the crack? Or the munge had a dried crust and was moist underneath? For what its worth I didn't notice any moisture on the cams, but it would have been a few minutes between ripping them and examining them. Maybe a half hour. I'm pretty sure it was shady by the time I started climbing so the sun wouldn't have dried them off.
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the_climber
Oct 29, 2007, 5:23 PM
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Damn Nate!
Good that you're OK and healing up now. Slimestone = as much passive as you can get, though parallel does not equal passive I've had a similar cam ripping experiance years ago (thankfully the crampons missed my leg when landing... don't deck on ice) and it was what looked like an ideal placement too. Limestone is a nasty fucker of a completely inconsistant medium to climb. Heal up fast buddy. Maybe you'll get out here for some Bugaboo or Squamish "solid gear" routes next season... or perhaps I'll let you in on the 'super "semi" secret new area' that may or may not require a full day of trail building/bush whacking/brush chopping to get into.... I bet that doesn't appeal at the moment.
Well, Bec got the Super Hardcore Tough Chick Award... I guess that means you get the "Shear Dumb Luck You Must Have A Tone of Horse Shoes up Your Ass to still be Walking Award"... Which is by far the longest name of any award I've ever handed out.
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the_climber
Oct 29, 2007, 6:00 PM
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That's some seriously scary shit when you consider the sharp pointy stuff that could have impailed you and/or broken you back/head/neck. You are one lucky SOB! You know, when I took my gear ripping fall I was amazed at how lucky I was, 5 ice screws crampons and ice hook and 2 tools... not one single point punctured me. Though there was the thing about landing hip first on the ice and thinking for a few moments I had broken my pelvis. I guess that it's the biggest reason I carry so much passive gear on my rack, most of my climbing is on Limestone and it just holds better, taht said we come back toteh parallel crack thing and you're left with using a cam. It wasn't untill I started doing a bit of Aid on limestone that I realized how little of a film of scum or mineral deposit on the sides of the crack it takes for the cam to rip. Pins for that matter too. I'd buy you a beer to help with the pain, but I think it might get a little warm and flat by the time it got to your table. If you'll take a raincheck I'll buy you one on your next trip out here.
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obsessed
Oct 30, 2007, 3:48 PM
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In reply to: Its a photo of a scrape on my ass. More technically my extreme lower back. Yeah I'll be back climbing. I'm not sure about on gear in this rock though.
Yep, that's your ass alright! I guess I better not be grabbin it for awhile, least til you heal 
Really glad you are (pretty much) unscathed by the incident...could have been a lot worse! Looks like your heel took the majority of impact. Do you remember smashing it when you decked or on the way down?
Don't worry, ice season is coming and you won't need to touch the slimestone then!
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chossmonkey
Oct 30, 2007, 4:22 PM
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obsessed wrote: Yep, that's your ass alright! I guess I better not be grabbin it for awhile, least til you heal Really glad you are (pretty much) unscathed by the incident...could have been a lot worse! Looks like your heel took the majority of impact. Do you remember smashing it when you decked or on the way down? Don't worry, ice season is coming and you won't need to touch the slimestone then!
I only hit my heel when I hit the ground. The route was fairly overhanging so it was a fall right straight down with nothing to hit but the ground.
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rokklym
Oct 31, 2007, 12:09 AM
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Jeezus dude, you can't be doing that shit! Glad you didn't get too messed up. Heal up and get back and send that sucker!
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leedaclimber
Oct 31, 2007, 6:18 PM
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Nate-
thx for sharing your story. it is certainly a reminder to me of how fragile life is. glad you're ok man.
-matthew
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chossmonkey
Nov 2, 2007, 1:51 PM
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Last night I got to examine the cams and take some new photos.
I had been asked about the spring action of the lobes and how well it was working and if that may have contributed to them pulling. All three cams seemed to have some amount of stickiness to them. The #1 was seemed to have a very slight amount, noticed only when pulling the trigger. The .75 was very noticeably sticky. It was very noticeable when pulling the trigger and sticky enough to notice by eye when the trigger was released. The .5 was only slightly sticky as the #1 was.
Looking at the cam lobes it was pretty hard to see any of the remaining green stuff and it didn't really show up well even in the new pictures. What the new pictures do show are the scratches in the cams. I'm not sure if the gouges in the .75 were already in the cams or if they are from when it ripped out.
The #1 would have had the least amount of force since it would have essentially been a toprope fall. Depending on if the .75 did anything or not it could have seen the most force. If it did nothing to slow me down then the .5 just below it would should have seen the most force. It didn't seem like any of the cams did anything, but I find it odd that the .75 is gouged more than the .5
I changed two of the photos in the OP showing the approximate width the cams were at inside the crack.
#1
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
.75
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
.5
 
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rogue10186
Nov 12, 2007, 6:17 AM
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It sounds right that the .5 would have had the most force on it before the nuts you had in, so it should have theoretically been the most beat up, but could the extra gouges on the .75 have been from it hitting something on the way down after pulling out?
Just throwing that out there.
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chossmonkey
Nov 12, 2007, 12:14 PM
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rogue10186 wrote: It sounds right that the .5 would have had the most force on it before the nuts you had in, so it should have theoretically been the most beat up, but could the extra gouges on the .75 have been from it hitting something on the way down after pulling out? Just throwing that out there.
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rhythm164
Nov 12, 2007, 1:34 PM
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glad you're ok man, sounded like a pretty heinous day. Def. makes the rest of us think twice about placements, or at least it should.
FYI, check the web specials for new boxers 
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microbarn
Nov 12, 2007, 2:34 PM
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rogue10186 wrote: It sounds right that the .5 would have had the most force on it before the nuts you had in, so it should have theoretically been the most beat up, but could the extra gouges on the .75 have been from it hitting something on the way down after pulling out? Just throwing that out there.
If the pieces held your statements would have some truth. Since they failed....they held less force, and there isn't enough information to figure out how much.
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whoa
Nov 13, 2007, 5:46 AM
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the belayer tells us that he felt very little force on the rope; hence there was very little force on any of the pieces that pulled (about twice what the belayer felt).
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tradrenn
Nov 15, 2007, 4:27 PM
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FYI:
Tallnik just took a 20 footer on a .75 that you ripped, it held just fine.
Gouges on my cams might be from ripping out, I'm saying that cause I haven't fallen on and of my .5 cams and the one that you used has similar marks as .75 and # 1.
HTH.
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dr_feelgood
Nov 15, 2007, 5:09 PM
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epoch wrote: chossmonkey wrote: Whats an ASR?[image]http://www.climbeasterncanada.com/images/smilies/icon_redface.gif[/image] Acute Stress Reaction The adrenaline reaction that happpens after you experience an injury. Google it for a more in depth definition. It is also comonly refered to as shock, however by definition it is incorrect.
ASR is the shit. Pure fight or flight at that point in time.
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