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skinnyz


May 6, 2008, 6:56 PM
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Deaf climbers
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I recently read an old thread posted by "Deafclimber" in 2002. I was hoping to get a new discussion going. I am particularly interested in how deaf partners communicate when they are out of visual sight, as well as how deaf and hearing partners communicate with one another. Signs, gestures, and rope tugs seem to be the primary methods discussed in the past. Can anyone elaborate on the methods that they found useful?


irregularpanda


May 6, 2008, 8:01 PM
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Re: [skinnyz] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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WHAT?
























try this http://www.rockclimbing.com/...=rope%20tugs;#846910


kyleshea


May 6, 2008, 8:21 PM
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Re: [skinnyz] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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huh?


CaptainPolution


May 7, 2008, 12:23 AM
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Re: [irregularpanda] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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irregularpanda wrote:
WHAT?
























try this http://www.rockclimbing.com/...=rope%20tugs;#846910

beat me to the joke


timd


May 7, 2008, 5:44 AM
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Re: [irregularpanda] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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Type slower I am trying to read your fingers. really though I would say that rope tugs would be the standard on this one.


WVUCLMBR


May 7, 2008, 6:18 AM
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Re: [skinnyz] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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I climb with a deaf guy all the time.
I use a dog-shock-collar to buzz him as signals. 1 buzz=take, 2 buzz=slack, 3buzz= standby, 4 buzz= do you have an extra sandwich?, 5 buzz= hurry up u deaf bastard, 6 buzz= is this collar working?
It's not perfect and works really bad in the rain.


Partner epoch
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May 7, 2008, 8:09 AM
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Re: [WVUCLMBR] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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WVUCLMBR wrote:
I climb with a deaf guy all the time.
I use a dog-shock-collar to buzz him as signals. 1 buzz=take, 2 buzz=slack, 3buzz= standby, 4 buzz= do you have an extra sandwich?, 5 buzz= hurry up u deaf bastard, 6 buzz= is this collar working?
It's not perfect and works really bad in the rain.
No one should laugh at this.


jdefazio


May 7, 2008, 8:30 AM
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Re: [epoch] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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epoch wrote:
WVUCLMBR wrote:
I climb with a deaf guy all the time.
I use a dog-shock-collar to buzz him as signals. 1 buzz=take, 2 buzz=slack, 3buzz= standby, 4 buzz= do you have an extra sandwich?, 5 buzz= hurry up u deaf bastard, 6 buzz= is this collar working?
It's not perfect and works really bad in the rain.
No one should laugh at this.

Incorrect.


WVUCLMBR


May 7, 2008, 8:35 AM
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jeeze...wait till he hears how I signal my blind partner.....


Johnny_Fang


May 7, 2008, 8:35 AM
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Re: [CaptainPolution] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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RC.com has hit a new low.


uhoh


May 7, 2008, 9:30 AM
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Re: [epoch] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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epoch wrote:
WVUCLMBR wrote:
I climb with a deaf guy all the time.
I use a dog-shock-collar to buzz him as signals. 1 buzz=take, 2 buzz=slack, 3buzz= standby, 4 buzz= do you have an extra sandwich?, 5 buzz= hurry up u deaf bastard, 6 buzz= is this collar working?
It's not perfect and works really bad in the rain.
No one should laugh at this.

I wasn't going to until you told me I shouldn't. Then I couldn't stop myself.


Gmburns2000


May 7, 2008, 10:00 AM
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Re: [epoch] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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epoch wrote:
WVUCLMBR wrote:
I climb with a deaf guy all the time.
I use a dog-shock-collar to buzz him as signals. 1 buzz=take, 2 buzz=slack, 3buzz= standby, 4 buzz= do you have an extra sandwich?, 5 buzz= hurry up u deaf bastard, 6 buzz= is this collar working?
It's not perfect and works really bad in the rain.
No one should laugh at this.

I'm going the hell then; lots of hells if there's more than one.Laugh

edit: typo


(This post was edited by Gmburns2000 on May 7, 2008, 10:01 AM)


Gmburns2000


May 7, 2008, 10:02 AM
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Re: [skinnyz] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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skinnyz wrote:
I recently read an old thread posted by "Deafclimber" in 2002. I was hoping to get a new discussion going. I am particularly interested in how deaf partners communicate when they are out of visual sight, as well as how deaf and hearing partners communicate with one another. Signs, gestures, and rope tugs seem to be the primary methods discussed in the past. Can anyone elaborate on the methods that they found useful?

In all seriousness, I use two pulls for off belay, and three pulles for on belay.

Example:
Leader is safe on an anchor = 2 pulls
Belayor takes leader off belay = two pulls in return
Leader has second on belay = 3 pulls
Second is climbing = 3 pulls


icyfrosty


May 7, 2008, 10:07 AM
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Re: [epoch] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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epoch wrote:
WVUCLMBR wrote:
I climb with a deaf guy all the time.
I use a dog-shock-collar to buzz him as signals. 1 buzz=take, 2 buzz=slack, 3buzz= standby, 4 buzz= do you have an extra sandwich?, 5 buzz= hurry up u deaf bastard, 6 buzz= is this collar working?
It's not perfect and works really bad in the rain.
No one should laugh at this.

True... but still....
Icy, probably going to hell for laughing at this one, Frosty


skinnyz


May 7, 2008, 10:21 AM
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Re: [irregularpanda] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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Thanks for the link, that's exactly what I was looking for! Though I'm still a bit skeptical of a system that only has two signals to communicate everything. Plus there's too much room for error.


skinnyz


May 7, 2008, 10:26 AM
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WVUCLMBR wrote:
I climb with a deaf guy all the time.
I use a dog-shock-collar to buzz him as signals. 1 buzz=take, 2 buzz=slack, 3buzz= standby, 4 buzz= do you have an extra sandwich?, 5 buzz= hurry up u deaf bastard, 6 buzz= is this collar working?
It's not perfect and works really bad in the rain.
In reply to:
The joke would be much better if it was about your mama:)


WVUCLMBR


May 7, 2008, 10:34 AM
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Re: [skinnyz] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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ok...it was a bad joke and I'm sorry.....but it did make me think about using an electrical device.
I would imagine that one of the numerous radio's out there have a light/screen that lights up when recieving messages. So what about using a device to signal using a code (not necessarily morse)? This would be more clear to the deaf than rope tugs and would allow the deaf person to speak to his partner.Angelic


hummm


May 7, 2008, 10:40 AM
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Re: [WVUCLMBR] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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I usually just text msg him.


jdefazio


May 7, 2008, 11:00 AM
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hummm wrote:
I usually just text msg him.
Laugh
OMFG t4k3 sum 5lak coz 1m f4ll1ng!!!


Gmburns2000


May 7, 2008, 11:20 AM
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WVUCLMBR wrote:
ok...it was a bad joke

you're wrong

WVUCLMBR wrote:
and I'm sorry.....

stand by your principles because they are yours and no one can take them from you

(disclosure: satan can if you are willing to negotiate. The following advice may be a cause for wonderful pleasures experienced throughout one's human lifespan. The following pleasures may involve, but may not be all inclusive of: sex with hot bisexual lesbian twins, millions of dollars in the bank, marriage to a mute wife, fast boats, private islands, your team winning the championship every year, etc. However, it should be noted that the following pleasures will likely result in the following symptoms: anal burning...lots and lots of anal burning).


knieveltech


May 7, 2008, 11:53 AM
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Re: [CaptainPolution] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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CaptainPolution wrote:
irregularpanda wrote:
WHAT?
























try this http://www.rockclimbing.com/...=rope%20tugs;#846910

beat me to the joke

Damn. Looks like I missed the bus as well.


irregularpanda


May 7, 2008, 12:00 PM
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WVUCLMBR wrote:
ok...it was a bad joke and I'm sorry.....but it did make me think about using an electrical device.
I would imagine that one of the numerous radio's out there have a light/screen that lights up when recieving messages. So what about using a device to signal using a code (not necessarily morse)? This would be more clear to the deaf than rope tugs and would allow the deaf person to speak to his partner.Angelic

I hope you're not sorry. All I could think of was the old "what did you say?"

Dog collars, brilliant. We're all going to hell.


lithiummetalman


May 7, 2008, 12:02 PM
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Re: [skinnyz] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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One my old partners and I used to use sign language all the time if we were within visual range, it works quite well instead of having to yell like crazy! (my other partners hate it when i use sign language, it confoosess them Tongue)

If out of range use rope tug system,

4 hardy pulls= off belay

then 5 hardy pulls to tell anchor is set and belay is on

Second responds back with 5 hard pulls that they're ready to climb

viola there we go (used to use 3's but that became confusing on pitches with rope drag)


skinnyz


May 7, 2008, 1:02 PM
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Finally, a serious response!

Thank youWink

Good info on adapting the old standard. I was concerned about rope drag issues and such. Before I knew about this rope tug system, I used to tug on the rope once or twice if I saw too much slack and my belayer was not paying attention. Fortunately for me, I used the right amount of tugs or it could have been disastrous. Maybe I just need more conscious partners!


stymingersfink


May 7, 2008, 1:49 PM
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Re: [knieveltech] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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knieveltech wrote:
CaptainPolution wrote:
irregularpanda wrote:
WHAT?
























try this http://www.rockclimbing.com/...=rope%20tugs;#846910

beat me to the joke

Damn. Looks like I missed the bus as well.
it was the short bus. your seat was already taken anyway.

And epok?

.... yor rong.


stymingersfink


May 7, 2008, 1:52 PM
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Re: [lithiummetalman] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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lithiummetalman wrote:
One my old partners and I used to use sign language all the time if we were within visual range, it works quite well instead of having to yell like crazy! (my other partners hate it when i use sign language, it confoosess them Tongue)

If out of range use rope tug system,

4 hardy pulls= off belay

then 5 hardy pulls to tell anchor is set and belay is on

Second responds back with 5 hard pulls that they're ready to climb

viola there we go (used to use 3's but that became confusing on pitches with rope drag)
i find 5 pulls, or any more than one, rather redundant to signal a second that the belay is on and they should begin climbing.

That should be obvious by the pause after taking up all the rope slack, followed by constant light tension.


Gmburns2000


May 7, 2008, 1:59 PM
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Re: [skinnyz] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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skinnyz wrote:
Finally, a serious response!

Thank youWink

OY! I said that posts ago! Oh well, maybe you just didn't see it. If that's the case, can the mods bump this from the deafness forum to blindness forum?


majid_sabet


May 7, 2008, 2:02 PM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
skinnyz wrote:
I recently read an old thread posted by "Deafclimber" in 2002. I was hoping to get a new discussion going. I am particularly interested in how deaf partners communicate when they are out of visual sight, as well as how deaf and hearing partners communicate with one another. Signs, gestures, and rope tugs seem to be the primary methods discussed in the past. Can anyone elaborate on the methods that they found useful?

In all seriousness, I use two pulls for off belay, and three pulles for on belay.

Example:
Leader is safe on an anchor = 2 pulls
Belayor takes leader off belay = two pulls in return
Leader has second on belay = 3 pulls
Second is climbing = 3 pulls

No fuc8ikng way.


irregularpanda


May 7, 2008, 2:02 PM
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My main problem with the rope tug system is consistency.
I have to have a very well developed relationship with a very consistent partner before something like this becomes apparent. I've had that in the past, but we ended up just yelling over the wind. And when we did it, we just did 4-5 pulls means "I'm off belay" AND "you're on belay"

In our case, we chose to remove commands from the system, because when you can't communicate, it's worth it to keep the leader on belay that entire time while the anchor was built..... my 0.02.



I don't have a consistent partner any more.....


Gmburns2000


May 7, 2008, 2:25 PM
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majid_sabet wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
skinnyz wrote:
I recently read an old thread posted by "Deafclimber" in 2002. I was hoping to get a new discussion going. I am particularly interested in how deaf partners communicate when they are out of visual sight, as well as how deaf and hearing partners communicate with one another. Signs, gestures, and rope tugs seem to be the primary methods discussed in the past. Can anyone elaborate on the methods that they found useful?

In all seriousness, I use two pulls for off belay, and three pulles for on belay.

Example:
Leader is safe on an anchor = 2 pulls
Belayor takes leader off belay = two pulls in return
Leader has second on belay = 3 pulls
Second is climbing = 3 pulls

No fuc8ikng way.

I'm confused. What is the problem with that? You have to be taken off belay at some point so that you can pull the slack up, right?

irregularpanda wrote:
...it's worth it to keep the leader on belay that entire time while the anchor was built..... my 0.02.

yes, that is what I've done. I've never signalled that I was safe until the anchor was built and I was attached.


Partner gunksgoer


May 7, 2008, 2:43 PM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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Werner Braun is hard of hearing and he's one of the most accomplished climbers of his generation. I was talking to Mary about how they communicate while climbing and got a pretty crazy answer that amounted to them just being on the same page all the time.


(This post was edited by gunksgoer on May 21, 2008, 9:21 PM)


stymingersfink


May 7, 2008, 3:23 PM
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gunksgoer wrote:
Werner Braun is pretty deaf, shoot him a message on supertopo. I was talking to Mary about how they communicate while climbing and got a pretty crazy answer that amounted to them just being on the same page all the time.
that's one of the benefits of having a longtime regular partner... telepathy of the mind.


matterunomama


May 7, 2008, 4:16 PM
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gunksgoer wrote:
Werner Braun is pretty deaf, shoot him a message on supertopo. I was talking to Mary about how they communicate while climbing and got a pretty crazy answer that amounted to them just being on the same page all the time.

You will never find a more ATTENTIVE person than a deaf belayer. I would bet that is a large part of 'being on the same page'. Hearing impaired people are used to watching carefully and seeing small indications of intent or small movements/signs. We all have to use the rope tugs when our partner is out of sight and the hearing environment is sketchy. I have climbed with hearing impaired and it is a LOT easier to sign what I want then yell
"Slack!"
"What? Take??"
"No, SLACK!!"

For people looking for the previously mentioned web pages, both deafclimbers.com and adaptiveclimbers.org are now offline, those addresses just go to a placeholder page.


Partner epoch
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May 7, 2008, 5:25 PM
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stymingersfink wrote:
knieveltech wrote:
CaptainPolution wrote:
irregularpanda wrote:
WHAT?
























try this http://www.rockclimbing.com/...=rope%20tugs;#846910

beat me to the joke

Damn. Looks like I missed the bus as well.
it was the short bus. your seat was already taken anyway.

And epok?

.... yor rong.

Well, once I regained my composure I had to explain my random laughing outbreak to my colleagues. It was only appropriate to include a remark to the opposite of what everyone was thinking.


reno


May 7, 2008, 8:02 PM
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Re: [lithiummetalman] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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5 pulls = "Off belay."

5 pulls = "On belay."

Second need not signal "Belay off" or "Climbing."

Leader gets to anchor, signals off belay, waits 10 seconds, pulls up slack. When rope comes taut, put on belay, then signal. Now just keep mindful of rope, and pull up as second's speed allows.

Climbed with a deaf partner in Denver years back when I lived there. He had about 10% residual hearing in one ear. A few tweaks to our system and we climbed lots, often, and without much trouble (even on wandering routes like Rewritten.)


desert_gold_hound


May 7, 2008, 9:55 PM
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In reply to:
I climb with a deaf guy all the time.
I use a dog-shock-collar to buzz him as signals. 1 buzz=take, 2 buzz=slack, 3buzz= standby, 4 buzz= do you have an extra sandwich?, 5 buzz= hurry up u deaf bastard, 6 buzz= is this collar working?
It's not perfect and works really bad in the rain.

I will see you all in hell if laughing at this is sending you there. I think we should all repent and find a TV evangelist (wearing diamonds) and send them our money.

This was the funnies thing I have read in a long time. I sent a link to my hearing impaired niece and she laughed also. So get over it and admit you also laughed before you said it wasn’t funny.
Although I would be scared to say this because some one out there is sue happy and will laugh this all the way through the courts and to the bank.


bigfatrock


May 9, 2008, 6:28 AM
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WHAT?


eddit: errr, never mind, the first reply got it :(


(This post was edited by bigfatrock on May 9, 2008, 6:29 AM)


Gmburns2000


May 9, 2008, 8:03 AM
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reno wrote:
5 pulls = "Off belay."

5 pulls = "On belay."

Second need not signal "Belay off" or "Climbing."

I can see where if this works for you then that would be easy, but I've always insisted on getting some sort of feedback, whether it be verbal or through rope signals, just to make sure. Even when shouting, I always say:

- "Off belay!"
- "Belay is off!"
- "Thank you!"

The reason for the "thank you" is not to be polite, but for comfirmation that the belayor and climber heard each other correctly. Because being on belay represents such an important aspect of safety in climbing, it seems to me that it is a reasonable extra step to ensure that everyone is on the same page. Sure, if your systems are such that it is obvious that someone is on or off belay (slack rope, for example), then you're probably OK. But I throw in the extra pulls to confirm just to be sure / clear.


reno


May 9, 2008, 9:05 AM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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Gmburns:

If easily done, I don't have a problem with confirmation tugs, etc. I could see, in the abstract, where it could get out of hand:

5 tugs = Off Belay!
5 tugs = Belay off!
5 tugs = Thank you!
5 tugs = On Belay!
5 tugs = Climbing!
5 tugs = Climb on!

And so forth.

But I get your point, and I also do the "Thank you" bit when I'm in ear shot (or, if high winds preclude verbal commands, but my partner is in sight, large hand gestures work too.)


Gmburns2000


May 9, 2008, 9:08 AM
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Re: [reno] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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reno wrote:
Gmburns:

If easily done, I don't have a problem with confirmation tugs, etc. I could see, in the abstract, where it could get out of hand:

5 tugs = Off Belay!
5 tugs = Belay off!
5 tugs = Thank you!
5 tugs = On Belay!
5 tugs = Climbing!
5 tugs = Climb on!

And so forth.

But I get your point, and I also do the "Thank you" bit when I'm in ear shot (or, if high winds preclude verbal commands, but my partner is in sight, large hand gestures work too.)

More than two shakes of the rope means you're doing something else...Tongue


reno


May 9, 2008, 9:14 AM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
More than two shakes of the rope means you're doing something else...Tongue

No, no... you're confusing the "Deaf climbers" thread with the "Blind climbers" thread.

Cool


Partner cliffhanger9
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May 10, 2008, 8:05 AM
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Re: [jdefazio] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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jdefazio wrote:
hummm wrote:
I usually just text msg him.
Laugh
OMFG t4k3 sum 5lak coz 1m f4ll1ng!!!

hahahaha


axelvanettinger


May 10, 2008, 10:13 AM
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Re: [epoch] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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epoch wrote:
WVUCLMBR wrote:
I climb with a deaf guy all the time.
I use a dog-shock-collar to buzz him as signals. 1 buzz=take, 2 buzz=slack, 3buzz= standby, 4 buzz= do you have an extra sandwich?, 5 buzz= hurry up u deaf bastard, 6 buzz= is this collar working?
It's not perfect and works really bad in the rain.
No one should laugh at this.

Hell i've got a deaf dad, and even he laughed... when I translated it to him...


JamesDaniels


May 11, 2008, 5:00 AM
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Re: [axelvanettinger] Deaf climbers [In reply to]
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That's really funny Laugh


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