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ts83


May 15, 2008, 1:29 AM
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Re: [stymingersfink] Bluejays debunked, Angry-Busters! Lost to Sorbat [In reply to]
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stymingersfink wrote:
monomyth wrote:
what was the first?
lemme think about that.


i'm sure it involved jt in the lab forum, but IDK.... the outcome there was a bit different.


oh yeah.. it was this oneSmile

Damnit! Twice!


notapplicable


May 15, 2008, 4:39 AM
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Re: [reno] Bluejays debunked, Angry-Busters! Lost to Sorbat [In reply to]
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reno wrote:
Majid, did you ever take Angry up on his wager about that whole "run 3 miles in 45 minutes" thing?


Yeah, yeah, yeah, I want video of that too.

Please.


notapplicable


May 15, 2008, 4:44 AM
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Re: [stymingersfink] Bluejays debunked, Angry-Busters! Lost to Sorbat [In reply to]
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stymingersfink wrote:
monomyth wrote:
what was the first?
lemme think about that.


i'm sure it involved jt in the lab forum, but IDK.... the outcome there was a bit different.


oh yeah.. it was this oneSmile




Well played sir, well played...


Partner j_ung


May 15, 2008, 6:21 AM
Post #54 of 85 (2947 views)
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Re: [stymingersfink] Bluejays debunked, Angry-Busters! Lost to Sorbat [In reply to]
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stymingersfink wrote:
monomyth wrote:
what was the first?
lemme think about that.


i'm sure it involved jt in the lab forum, but IDK.... the outcome there was a bit different.


oh yeah.. it was this oneSmile

Bastardo!


Valarc


May 15, 2008, 6:56 AM
Post #55 of 85 (2924 views)
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Re: [majid_sabet] Bluejays debunked, Angry-Busters! Lost to Sorbat [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
Angry

Grow up,learn something or nothing and accept the fact that you lost and do not ever try to challenge me on something you have no knowledge about.

Except, of course, he didn't lose. You accomplished a ~20 foot rappel on static line pulled from an 11mm rope (who the hell would have an 11mm static line climbing?). You used twice as many strands as were realistic, from a different type of rope than is realistic, and rapped a much shorter distance than your original claim.

You may have confirmed the plausibility of rappelling on strands removed from a rope's core, but you have IN NO WAY confirmed the magnitude of your original claims - 30 meters on 5 feet of rope left after your lead line had been cut.

Car analogies are so over-used, but I'm going to use one anyway. Your claiming you won would be like Ford advertising a car that can go 300 miles on a tank of vegetable oil, then claiming "mission accomplished" when they came out with a car that gets 200 miles on a tank of vegetable-oil derived biodiesel. Sure, it might be similar on the surface, but it's still confirming that the original claim is horseshit.

You haven't won. Take your arrogant ass back to your corner and draw some red and green arrows.


(This post was edited by Valarc on May 15, 2008, 7:01 AM)


chadnsc


May 15, 2008, 8:38 AM
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Re: [Valarc] Bluejays debunked, Angry-Busters! Lost to Sorbat [In reply to]
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I have to agree.

Lets not forget that majid also use "5 + feet" of that 11 mm static line. In majid speak that could be anywhere from 5'-1" to 5'-11"

majid was supposed to:
Rappel 30 feet on 5 feet of dynamic rope using 2 strands of the ropes core.

majid did:
Rappelled 20 feet on "5+ feet" (majids words) of 11mm static line using four strands of the core.


majid_sabet


May 15, 2008, 9:04 AM
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Re: [chadnsc] Bluejays debunked, Angry-Busters! Lost to Sorbat [In reply to]
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Tongue


(This post was edited by majid_sabet on May 19, 2008, 3:57 PM)


l8-start-up


May 15, 2008, 9:14 AM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Bluejays debunked, Angry-Busters! Lost to Sorbat [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
Film has been deleted off the youtube

Why?


WVUCLMBR


May 15, 2008, 9:48 AM
Post #59 of 85 (2792 views)
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Re: [l8-start-up] Bluejays debunked, Angry-Busters! Lost to Sorbat [In reply to]
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I think he is worried that people might view it as instructional and not just settling a stupid bet.


chadnsc


May 15, 2008, 9:52 AM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Bluejays debunked, Angry-Busters! Lost to Sorbat [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
Guys

This case is closed; film has been viewed by senior members of this site including few Mods. Film has been deleted off the youtube

It is over

Just found the way to keep this loose dog (Angry) on the leash so he does not messes with me. I love dogs if they bite, I will hammer them down like an old PITON.

Go get beer and have it ready for UPS you looser

I find it a rather disconcerting that you where confident enough to take the time and personal risk to your safety in order to attempt to disprove Angrys observations but yet you are unwilling to follow the orginal criteria set by yourself. It is very clear that you feel you are correct.

If so why would you not take the time to follow the original conations of the experiment and prove your original claims? You are obviously experienced enough to do the experiment following the original criteria. Your unwillingness to give us access to your data (the video) or perform the experiment within the original conditions set by yourself dose not give you or your finding credibility. In fact refusal to do so actually makes you appear far less credible.

It would be far more beneficial to your credibility to perform the experiment again, and this time follow the original criteria. If you are successful you would show without any doubt that you are correct. If you are incorrect it would show that you have the personal character to stand by your assertions and accept the consequences.

What you've proven:
You can pass the knots of the ropes core through an act without them getting hung up or shredded.

Using four strands of a ropes core sufficient friction can be obtain to 20 feet using a single locker and an atc.

What you still need to prove to be vindicated:
That you can rappel 30 feet on two strands of a dynamic ropes core.


dynoho


May 15, 2008, 9:53 AM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Bluejays debunked, Angry-Busters! Lost to Sorbat [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
Just found the way to keep this loose dog (Angry) on the leash so he does not messes with me. I love dogs if they bite, I will hammer them down like an old PITON.

majid_sabet wrote:
In fact, your point was to just to do personal attack but you ended up with bloody noise in your own court.....

till then, you are officially a looser in RC till proven otherwise.

Is he a looser because he is a loose dog? It is difficult to accept your pompous, know-it-all attitude when you writing makes you seem so ignorant. And why do you keep talking about hammering "your bitch" like a piton. The visual is disturbing. Keep your fantasies to yourself.

edited: for my own piss poor grammar


(This post was edited by dynoho on May 15, 2008, 10:59 AM)


Partner cracklover


May 15, 2008, 10:22 AM
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Re: [dynoho] Bluejays debunked, Angry-Busters! Lost to Sorbat [In reply to]
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I don't know what the original challenge was, but I think if you want to rap double the length of a rope it would be a lot better to strip the sheath and then tie *that* to the core. The sheath alone should be plenty strong enough to support half your weight. Much better than throwing the sheath away and dividing up the core. Though if that's not long enough, just divide the core in half, but still use the sheath for one third the length.

GO


stymingersfink


May 15, 2008, 10:49 AM
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Re: [cracklover] Bluejays debunked, Angry-Busters! Lost to Sorbat [In reply to]
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cracklover wrote:
I don't know what the original challenge was, but I think if you want to rap double the length of a rope it would be a lot better to strip the sheath and then tie *that* to the core. The sheath alone should be plenty strong enough to support half your weight. Much better than throwing the sheath away and dividing up the core. Though if that's not long enough, just divide the core in half, but still use the sheath for one third the length.

GO
Having just read this, I'm somewhat surprised that this point has taken so long to come up!

Having previously pulled core from a 100' section of rope before, I can honestly say that it's not that difficult to pull the core from a dynamic rope without damaging the sheath.

Of course, IIRC, the stipulation was a 60INCH section of rope to make a 30FOOT rappel, so I'm not sure just how handy that short section of sheath would help much in this situation.

For the bird-watching professor, however, it would then be possible to fix the core as a whole, slide down it to the next anchor, then complete the raps on the sheath. Obviously, some care would need to be taken to ensure the sheath does not get damaged in the process of rapping, but the chances of survival using this technique would probably be much higher than rapping on two core strands.


Partner angry


May 15, 2008, 10:52 AM
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Re: [stymingersfink] Bluejays debunked, Angry-Busters! Lost to Sorbat [In reply to]
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I thought of that originally too. For the life of me, I couldn't get the strands out without skinning the sheath and thus destroying it.

Are some brands easier to "core" than others?


stymingersfink


May 15, 2008, 11:21 AM
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Re: [angry] Bluejays debunked, Angry-Busters! Lost to Sorbat [In reply to]
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Well, I don't know about that. It was a Beal Edlinger 10.2 that had suffered a core shot in the middle of the rope. Actually, from the looks of it someone had tied an alpine butterfly in the thing to make a biner-block for rappel, then pulled it over a slab after rapping, causing significant wear in one small section of the sheath (with no core showing really, but without knowing the history of the rope there was no way in hell I was going to lead on it)

That's not important though. I was given the rope, and I needed the core strands for my own purposes.

After cutting the fused end off the rope and working the sheath back a little bit, I was able to pull the core out as I worked the sheath toward one end. Yeah, it took some work to do, but I just kept working that sheath in a bunch toward the far end. Think Chinese Finger Cuffs. As the sheath bunched up, it became somewhat easier to work toward the other end.

Though I only worked the core out of half of the rope, I can say with a high degree of confidence that were you to purchase a rope and ship it to me, I would be able to return to you the intact sheath (minus an inch or two from both ends) and a pile of core strands.

It's your dime though. Spend it how you wish. ;)


Valarc


May 15, 2008, 11:30 AM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Bluejays debunked, Angry-Busters! Lost to Sorbat [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
This case is closed;

Oh, well since Majid said it's closed, it must be.

You haven't addressed a single complaint about your so-called "proof" that you were right. You haven't responded to the multitude of criticisms that come with your assertion that Angry is a clueless noob and you somehow owned him. In reality, all you've done is jam your fingers in your ears and scream "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" like an immature fucking child.

Typical Majid, really...


MikeSaint


May 15, 2008, 12:08 PM
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Let a Poll close the case?


Partner angry


May 15, 2008, 12:27 PM
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MikeSaint wrote:
Let a Poll close the case?

Let two.


Gmburns2000


May 15, 2008, 12:30 PM
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angry wrote:
MikeSaint wrote:
Let a Poll close the case?

Let two.

Three

Sorry, forgot one was up already.


Partner epoch
Moderator

May 15, 2008, 12:31 PM
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Majid, Angry, et al.:

The conversations regarding the tests in the Lab are now spread across three forums in six threads. The Lab is the place to show your methods and results of your hypothesis and those threads are doing well on thier own. However, please refrain from creating more threads about this topic.

Also, a reminder before it becomes any more heated:

Personal attacks will not be tolerated towards any member of this site. If you come off as vindictive or crass you will recieve a time out from the forum. This is your only warning.


adatesman


May 15, 2008, 12:47 PM
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majid_sabet


May 15, 2008, 12:51 PM
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Re: [adatesman] Bluejays debunked, Angry-Busters! Lost to Sorbat [In reply to]
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adatesman wrote:
A pissing match in The Lab that I wasn't involved in??? Dammit! Last time I go away for a couple days....

Without reading much of what transpired and being a bit bored, I figured I might as well try and replicate MS's findings...

So down to the workshop I went and off came 5' of the retired 10.something dynamic lead rope I got from Pinkarm for the pull testing. It ended up having 12 twisted strands as the core, so fewer than Angry's. While slippery, all the strands tied together nicely with a new knot I've been playing with called the Zeppelin Bend (p 44 of Geoffrey Budworth's "Complete Book of Knots) that is kinda but not really a cross between a EDK and ring bend.

Anyway, I then threw a bight from the middle over a hook on the ceiling (so 2 strands), tied the 5' of sheath into a loop to use as an improvised harness and tried lowering myself using 10 wraps around the spine of the steel DMM biner that was hanging on the pull tester. No dice.... WAY too much friction. Easy to sit and hang though. Dropped it to 5 wraps and it fed smooth. 4 wraps seemed about right for balancing smooth feed and friction. Passing knots wasn't a problem at all.

Seems to me it would work.... Might need to bump up the number of wraps when using an aluminum biner though, as the steel biner had a fairly rough texture on the spine. Oh, and taking the sheath off took all of 15 seconds. I just pressed in on the end of the rope to loosen the end, grabbed the core and slid the sheath down until it slid off the far end of the core.

Don't think I'll be trying the 30' challenge without a backup belay though....

-a.

1-Can you scan and post that knot for me

2-Also, I used 5 but it was too much and 3 was too loose so 4 wraps worked perfect on my experiment.

Thanks


(This post was edited by majid_sabet on May 15, 2008, 12:54 PM)


irregularpanda


May 15, 2008, 1:25 PM
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Re: [chadnsc] Bluejays debunked, Angry-Busters! Lost to Sorbat [In reply to]
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chadnsc wrote:
I find it a rather disconcerting that you where confident enough to take the time and personal risk to your safety in order to attempt to disprove Angrys observations but yet you are unwilling to follow the orginal criteria set by yourself. It is very clear that you feel you are correct.

If so why would you not take the time to follow the original conations of the experiment and prove your original claims? You are obviously experienced enough to do the experiment following the original criteria. Your unwillingness to give us access to your data (the video) or perform the experiment within the original conditions set by yourself dose not give you or your finding credibility. In fact refusal to do so actually makes you appear far less credible.

It would be far more beneficial to your credibility to perform the experiment again, and this time follow the original criteria. If you are successful you would show without any doubt that you are correct. If you are incorrect it would show that you have the personal character to stand by your assertions and accept the consequences.

What you've proven:
You can pass the knots of the ropes core through an act without them getting hung up or shredded.

Using four strands of a ropes core sufficient friction can be obtain to 20 feet using a single locker and an atc.

What you still need to prove to be vindicated:
That you can rappel 30 feet on two strands of a dynamic ropes core.

To the moderators: I will try to avoid personal attacks from now on.

To Majid: I agree with this quote. You posted this "proof" and then within 1 day of not being on this website, the "proof" was missed by many people.
A simple solution would be to post the video directly to this websie, instead of youtube.

Basically, please post this video.....It's in the common interests of this tribe. If you don't, well basically you forfeit some sort of alpha status for some sort of omega status.


adatesman


May 15, 2008, 1:34 PM
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majid_sabet


May 15, 2008, 2:12 PM
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adatesman wrote:
Sure thing....

[image]http://www.shariconglobal.com/misc/zeppelin.JPG[/image]

Apparently it was used by the US Navy up until 1962 for securing their lighter-than-air ships (blimps/zeppelins/dirigibles/whatever term you care to use) and is also known as the Rosendahl Bend (Rosendahl was a skipper on one of the Navy's dirigibles that insisted on this knot being used on his ship).

Link to excellent description and alternate manner of tying it.

-a.

I used single over hand bend (prusik knot) to tie my cords and it passed thru ATC without any problem

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