Well....I guess he meant from post #2 then....heheheh

At this point I think we're almost all trying to fan the flames but the wood's mostly run out.

Yup. 2 is the new 1.

So, here's a guy, clearly climbs hard, but is gonna get himself or someone else killed if he continues to climb that way.

Sorry about that folks....


(if you have to ask...)

Sorry about that folks....


(if you have to ask...)

I have to ask...

So, just a comment on the Gunks/WV comparisons, and a little story along with it. I'm a Gunks local and I just got back from a weekend climbing at Seneca and it was REMARKABLE. Friday I think I saw one other party the entire day (coming up as I was rapping off). I've pretty much given up on climbing at the Gunks on weekends as a result of the complete freakshows that seem to occur all the time (although I've not witnessed anything like this High E episode, thank God).

But, unfortunately, we don't seem to have a complete monopoly on idiots. I climbed Ecstasy on Saturday in a party of three - one guide (I'm not back to leading yet since my daughter was born), a friend who doesn't have a lot of multi-pitch experience, and me. Since my friend was very nervous about cleaning anchors, I was the third. I was at the second (hanging) belay on the route while my friend climbed the third and final pitch, and she was struggling a bit at the crux. So I had plenty of time to watch a party coming up below me on Muscle Beach, which I understand is a 5.11.

The guy at the anchor is belaying up a woman second. The first thing I notice is that he's got the rope in his lap at the hanging belay and it's giving him some trouble, and he keeps TAKING BOTH HIS HANDS OFF THE BELAY to fix it. As she joins him at the belay, I notice that she's got a rental helmet on, which strikes me as odd - if you're a 5.11 trad climber I just would assume you own your own helmet. But perhaps she forgot. . .

He starts up the next pitch and basically climbs 30 feet up without placing a single piece of gear. And she's belaying him right from her harness, no directional above her at all (he's not even clipped into the anchor). So I'm getting kind of sketched out just watching him. Finally he clips an old piton (!) and keeps on going until he's directly over my head. At this point, with no other gear but the piton for 40+ feet, he starts to get shaky, saying to his belayer "uh oh, watch me here." I am meanwhile freaking out at the thought that if he comes off he's going to land in my lap OR go whizzing by me, and hoping that if he does the pin will hold the fall so that he doesn't wind up taking a 100-footer directly onto his belay.

I bascially extend myself as far as I can get from anchor so that he won't land on me. FINALLY he places a piece of gear and climbs on. Whew.

Two minutes later I hear him say, kind of conversationally, "rock." A second later (when he sees that the rock the guy has kicked off is the size of a grapefruit), my party's leader yells "ROCK ROCK ROCK!" just in time for me to duck into the alcove and have it miss me by a few feet.

He managed to kick off another big rock as he's topping out, but luckily by this time I was on the route and not directly under him. I was so angry by the time I topped out that I couldn't even speak - I just untied and walked up the trail away from the scene.

The amazing thing is that our leader actually told the guy that he needed to be a little more careful about kicking off debris, especially when he's above another party, and that he should apologize to me. The guy wouldn't meet his eyes and never said boo to me when I walked back over to rap off.

So, here's a guy, clearly climbs hard, but is gonna get himself or someone else killed if he continues to climb that way.

Luckily I think that's an exception at Seneca. I'm already planning a trip back next month. Gas prices be damned.

Wow, and I thought this popcorn went stale. Funny what butter can do to soften the oldness.

chew, chew, crunch, crunch

That guy was me. I apologize I made you felt uncomfortable or I was being rude that day. I was definitely in a bad mood and sure acting like a jerk. Your leader endless babbling didn't help either. That said, let's get some facts straight.

First, the route I was on is Sixth Sense, not Muscle Beach and yes I've been on Muscle Beach before (a much better climb with cleaner rocks). Sixth Sense goes to the left of Estacy on the third pitch so at no time I was directly above you. You can check with you leader or the guide book.

Second, I wasn't having trouble with the rope. Hanging belay is uncomfortable, I was just trying to get more comfortable by shifting around. Yes I took my hands of the belay but it is an autolock, perhaps you've heard of such device?

Third, I didn't place any gear for the first 30 ft because THERE IS NO PLACE to place one. There is a reason why the piton is there in the first place. Beside, the climbing is no harder than 5.5 in that section.

Fourth, I wasn't getting shaky. Again, the climbing there isn't harder than 5.5. I called my belayer for attention because of the loose rocks I encountered. And one piece did come off but it was a tiny one. I did yelled along with your leader.

Fifth, your party above took up the entire belaying ledge above and didn't offer me some space so I was forced to belay on a slope filled with bushes and trees. That's where I accidentally dislodge a pebble (not big rock) probably from the bush. There is no big rock up there anywhere on that ledge.

As long as we get those facts straightened, you are welcome to call me idiot or whatever name you see fit. However, I do sincerely apologize. If I see you again at Seneca, I will apologize in person.

I've been climbing at Seneca for a number of years and I have one warning. Rock falls at Seneca happen quite often as some of the ledges above are filled with pebbles and the rocks are exfolliating, especially on routes that aren't climbed often. I've gotten my share as a receiver over the years. If you climb there often, you'll come across the same thing too, especially on a crowded day.

One other question: How can you stand your guide constant babbling? Even at 10 ft away, his chattering gave me a headache.

hyhuu

I can't help wondering why the leader of the three-person party didn't just lower the two seconds enough for someone in the five-person party to pull them back in and onto the GT ledge?

JL

Was this ever answered? I immediately wondered - why not treat the two stuck climbers like stuffed sacks of shit? If they Party of Five (sounds like a TV show) could toss her a friggin long sling, why couldn't they have reeled her in as she and her worthless 2nd were lowered off?

Vertical Limit dhude!!!111

DMT

I think that was covered already. There was a stuck autoblocking belay device that the leader at the top did not know how to release.

The lesson, imo, for us all to ponder, each in our own contexts and experiences, is how to remain calm and open to the greater possibilities whan all about us are losing their shit!

Once she's fallen, scared, and helpless, it is 100% someone else's responsibility to make sure she gets to the ground safely and calmly.

Well I don't agree with this damsel-in-distress analysis at all.

Whatever happened to the notion of self-sufficiency. Wny not let her and her partners dangle in their reality-bath for a while? Let the fear wash over and through... maybe cleanse them a bit?

I'm serious.... this '100% someone else's responsibility' notion just astounds me.

Like someone eventually could have sauntered up to the top and showed the leas doofus how to work his belay device?

Really, so the woman dangling on the rope suffers a panic attack - so what? I bet it'd teach her a valuable lesson....

DMT

Dude, your missing the whole point. Screaming lady and her tard friends were jamming up the primo classic route in the area. Had to get that bitch out the way quick like, so they could get the congo line moving again. Bitch was holding up the show.

Dude, your missing the whole point. Screaming lady and her tard friends were jamming up the primo classic route in the area. Had to get that bitch out the way quick like, so they could get the congo line moving again. Bitch was holding up the show.

bitch.............someone has issues