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markc
Aug 27, 2008, 6:50 PM
Post #26 of 54
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drector wrote: I don't know what manufacturers really say since I have not talked to one. My ropes don't last that long anyhow. For any others that don't know the recommendations from manufacturers, here is some information from Blue Water - and here's a link to the PDF: CARE AND LIFETIME: The working life of this rope depends on the frequency and the type of use. A rope can be subject to irreparable damage during its first use. The mechanical demands, abrasion, UV exposure and humidity gradually degrade the properties of the rope. The average length of rope life: •intensive and daily use:3 to 6 months •use every weekend:2 to 3 years •occasional use:4 to 5 years In any case,the actual working life of the rope should never exceed 5 years. Arope must be retired earlier if: •it has held a major fall approaching fall factor 2 or above. •manual inspection indicates damage to the core •the sheath is excessively abraded or badly glazed •it has been in contact with any chemicals containing acids,alkalies,oxidizing agents or bleaching compounds Do not allow the rope to contact chemical agents containing acids, alkalies, oxidizing agents or bleaching compounds which can destroy the fibers without visible evidence. Avoid unnecessary exposure to UV. Store the rope in a cool,shaded place away from dampness and direct heat. Wash dirty ropes in clear cold water. Mild soap can be used to remove oils. Particularly dirty areas may be scrubbed with a soft brush. If the rope is wet after use or washing, allow it to air dry away from direct sunlight. Inspect the rope visually and manually along its entire length before and after each use. The rope is personal equipment and it is the user’s responsibility to know the history of his/her rope. During any use away from you the rope may be subject to grave damage which could be invisible. Ropes must be destroyed upon retirement to prevent future use. Here is information from Beal: LIFETIME DYNAMIC ROPES AND ACCESSORY CORDS • Lifetime = Time of storage before first use + time in use. The working life depends on the frequency and the type of use. Abrasion, UV exposure and humidity gradually degrade the properties of the rope. Note that with use, a rope thickens and thus loses up to 10 % length. Storage time: In good storage conditions this product may be kept for 5 years before first use without affecting its future lifetime duration in use. Lifetime: - Intensive and daily use: 1 year. - Weekly and intensive use: 2 years. - Daily in-season use of average intensity: 3 years. - Weekly in-season use of average intensity: 5 years. - Several uses during the year of average intensity: 7 years. - Very occasional light use: 10 years. Attention: These are the nominal lifetimes indicated, a rope could be destroyed during its first use. It is the inspections which determine if the product must be scrapped more quickly. Proper storage between uses is essential. The lifetime of the rope in use must never exceed 10 years. The total maximum lifetime (storage before use + lifetime in use) is thus limited to 15 years. The rope must be retired earlier: - if it has held a major fall, approaching fall factor 2 - if inspection reveals or even indicates damage to the core - if the sheath is very worn - if it has been in contact with any active or dangerous chemicals - if there is the slightest doubt about its security I think most manufacturers have similar guidelines on their sites or with rope packaging. HTH.
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jt512
Aug 27, 2008, 6:55 PM
Post #27 of 54
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shoo wrote: The requirements for retiring a rope don't change for top-rope vs. lead. Do a full rope inspection. If you find any signs of damage or have other reason to suspect it, retire the rope. Basic rope inspection procedure: Be in a well-lit room when you do this. Start from one end of the rope in your hand. Run the rope through your hand, keeping pressure on it the whole time. Every few inches, make a bight in the rope and squeeze. Make sure as you are doing this that you are looking at the entire rope (you can turn it around a little to see all sides). What you are looking for: Frayed sheath: The standard I always hear is 50% fraying. If more than 50% of the sheath is frayed, retire it. However, this is a fairly arbitrary and difficult to gauge measure. Core shot: If you can see the core (usually white), retire it. Glazing: The sheath of the rope will be hardened, slightly shiny, and darker than the surrounding material. This is an indication of heat damage, usually caused by too rapidly running a rope through a belay device or webbing. Flat spots: This is where the squeeze test comes in handy. If you come across a spot that seems unusually soft or flat, chances are the core is either shifted or damaged. Shifting is fine, damage is not. It is difficult to tell which it might be without removing the sheath (which destroys the rope), so err on the side of caution. Hard spots: This is again with the squeeze test. A hard spot can indicate core shift (not so bad as long as it isn't cause by a break elsewhere in the rope), a core break (very bad), chemical (very bad), or heat damage (also very bad). A hard spot paired with a soft spot can either indicate a core shift or break. Again, since you often can't tell, err on the side of caution. Discoloration: Usually indicates UV or chemical damage. Retire if discoloration is significant. If you are unsure if it's just dirt, wash the rope using the manufacturer's recommendations. If discoloration isn't mostly gone, it's probably chemical or UV related. Retire. If you have any other reason to suspect the rope, retire it. If that's the basic procedure, I'd hate to see the advanced. Jay
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chossmonkey
Aug 27, 2008, 10:38 PM
Post #28 of 54
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Registered: Feb 1, 2003
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markc wrote: drector wrote: I don't know what manufacturers really say since I have not talked to one. My ropes don't last that long anyhow. For any others that don't know the recommendations from manufacturers, here is some information from Blue Water - and here's a link to the PDF: CARE AND LIFETIME: The working life of this rope depends on the frequency and the type of use. A rope can be subject to irreparable damage during its first use. The mechanical demands, abrasion, UV exposure and humidity gradually degrade the properties of the rope. The average length of rope life: •intensive and daily use:3 to 6 months •use every weekend:2 to 3 years •occasional use:4 to 5 years In any case,the actual working life of the rope should never exceed 5 years. Arope must be retired earlier if: •it has held a major fall approaching fall factor 2 or above. •manual inspection indicates damage to the core •the sheath is excessively abraded or badly glazed •it has been in contact with any chemicals containing acids,alkalies,oxidizing agents or bleaching compounds Do not allow the rope to contact chemical agents containing acids, alkalies, oxidizing agents or bleaching compounds which can destroy the fibers without visible evidence. Avoid unnecessary exposure to UV. Store the rope in a cool,shaded place away from dampness and direct heat. Wash dirty ropes in clear cold water. Mild soap can be used to remove oils. Particularly dirty areas may be scrubbed with a soft brush. If the rope is wet after use or washing, allow it to air dry away from direct sunlight. Inspect the rope visually and manually along its entire length before and after each use. The rope is personal equipment and it is the user’s responsibility to know the history of his/her rope. During any use away from you the rope may be subject to grave damage which could be invisible. Ropes must be destroyed upon retirement to prevent future use. Here is information from Beal: LIFETIME DYNAMIC ROPES AND ACCESSORY CORDS • Lifetime = Time of storage before first use + time in use. The working life depends on the frequency and the type of use. Abrasion, UV exposure and humidity gradually degrade the properties of the rope. Note that with use, a rope thickens and thus loses up to 10 % length. Storage time: In good storage conditions this product may be kept for 5 years before first use without affecting its future lifetime duration in use. Lifetime: - Intensive and daily use: 1 year. - Weekly and intensive use: 2 years. - Daily in-season use of average intensity: 3 years. - Weekly in-season use of average intensity: 5 years. - Several uses during the year of average intensity: 7 years. - Very occasional light use: 10 years. Attention: These are the nominal lifetimes indicated, a rope could be destroyed during its first use. It is the inspections which determine if the product must be scrapped more quickly. Proper storage between uses is essential. The lifetime of the rope in use must never exceed 10 years. The total maximum lifetime (storage before use + lifetime in use) is thus limited to 15 years. The rope must be retired earlier: - if it has held a major fall, approaching fall factor 2 - if inspection reveals or even indicates damage to the core - if the sheath is very worn - if it has been in contact with any active or dangerous chemicals - if there is the slightest doubt about its security I think most manufacturers have similar guidelines on their sites or with rope packaging. HTH. Its funny how one manufacturer says you should retire a rope when it is 5 years old no matter what, and another says it can be as long as 15 years. The UIAA did a study that was quite interesting. You can dig it up if you would like. The jist was as long as the rope was in good shape (not core shot, not exposed to chemicals)it was still plenty strong.
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markc
Aug 28, 2008, 1:25 PM
Post #29 of 54
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chossmonkey wrote: Its funny how one manufacturer says you should retire a rope when it is 5 years old no matter what, and another says it can be as long as 15 years. The UIAA did a study that was quite interesting. You can dig it up if you would like. The jist was as long as the rope was in good shape (not core shot, not exposed to chemicals)it was still plenty strong. It seems the Blue Water guidelines don't consider shelf life, while Beal's does. If you disregard Beal's "my rope rarely leaves the closet" numbers, their guidelines aren't too far apart. Maybe we should chalk it up to different legal departments? I'm familiar with a couple of the UIAA studies, one on the aging of climbing rope, and another where ropes were subjected to a wide range of abuses. I can certainly understand why manufacturers would suggest more conservative guidelines, as they have to cover their asses. Edited to fix quotation.
(This post was edited by markc on Aug 28, 2008, 1:27 PM)
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shoo
Aug 28, 2008, 8:48 PM
Post #30 of 54
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jt512 wrote: If that's the basic procedure, I'd hate to see the advanced. Jay It's a detailed description of what you're looking for, but the actual process boils down to this: Run the rope through your hands under a little pressure. If anything feels or looks bad, consider retiring.
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mtnrock
Aug 28, 2008, 9:01 PM
Post #31 of 54
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one day i actually payed more attention to how other people spelled and then i relized i have a life
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mtnrock
Aug 28, 2008, 9:06 PM
Post #32 of 54
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thats what ive been doing and i haven't found anything bad and thanks for the help
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sungam
Aug 28, 2008, 9:19 PM
Post #33 of 54
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mtnrock wrote: one day I actually payed more attention to how other people spelled and then I relized I have a life . Try the punctuation and grammar next.
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shoo
Aug 28, 2008, 9:52 PM
Post #34 of 54
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Honestly, you aren't helping yourself here. Consider using some basic punctuation. It makes it much easier to read, and thus much easier to answer your questions. I have no doubt that you are an intelligent person, but your posts don't show it.
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jt512
Aug 29, 2008, 3:18 AM
Post #35 of 54
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To Mtnrock, shoo wrote: I have no doubt that you are an intelligent person... With his spelling and punctuation, unless he's in the second grade, I certainly have doubts that he is an intelligent person. Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Aug 29, 2008, 4:56 AM)
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jt512
Aug 29, 2008, 3:29 AM
Post #36 of 54
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shoo wrote: jt512 wrote: If that's the basic procedure, I'd hate to see the advanced. Jay It's a detailed description of what you're looking for, but the actual process boils down to this: Run the rope through your hands under a little pressure. If anything feels or looks bad, consider retiring. I basically agree with what you listed that you look for, but I question whether you have to routinely perform dedicated checks of your rope. Every time you belay you see and handle a lot of your rope. If you switch ends from time to time, then over the course of a few climbs you handle most, if not all of it, and what you don't handle, you at least see. If you are seconding, then you see, and could, if you wished, handle the entire rope: a portion of it while belaying, the remainder while the leader is pulling up the slack. So, given that in the routine course of climbing, you can basically inspect your rope continually, I question that you have to often, if ever, do a dedicated inspection of it. I can't remember the last time I did one. I may never have. Jay
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ltj999
Aug 29, 2008, 4:42 AM
Post #37 of 54
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I would learn how to spell correctly before you try to put your life in your own hands. But that's just me... w/e
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shoo
Aug 29, 2008, 12:18 PM
Post #38 of 54
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jt512 wrote: I basically agree with what you listed that you look for, but I question whether you have to routinely perform dedicated checks of your rope. Every time you belay you see and handle a lot of your rope. If you switch ends from time to time, then over the course of a few climbs you handle most, if not all of it, and what you don't handle, you at least see. If you are seconding, then you see, and could, if you wished, handle the entire rope: a portion of it while belaying, the remainder while the leader is pulling up the slack. So, given that in the routine course of climbing, you can basically inspect your rope continually, I question that you have to often, if ever, do a dedicated inspection of it. I can't remember the last time I did one. I may never have. Jay The OP was asking if his rope was OK. This, plus some info about rope history, is how you tell. I make a point to do this every so often on my ropes, especially at the beginning of a season. You just don't see the same things in regular use that you do with a dedicated inspection. But, for the most part, you're right. You can get the a reasonable feel for the rope just by using it.
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jmvc
Aug 29, 2008, 2:46 PM
Post #39 of 54
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shoo wrote: jt512 wrote: I basically agree with what you listed that you look for, but I question whether you have to routinely perform dedicated checks of your rope. Every time you belay you see and handle a lot of your rope. If you switch ends from time to time, then over the course of a few climbs you handle most, if not all of it, and what you don't handle, you at least see. If you are seconding, then you see, and could, if you wished, handle the entire rope: a portion of it while belaying, the remainder while the leader is pulling up the slack. So, given that in the routine course of climbing, you can basically inspect your rope continually, I question that you have to often, if ever, do a dedicated inspection of it. I can't remember the last time I did one. I may never have. Jay The OP was asking if his rope was OK. This, plus some info about rope history, is how you tell. I make a point to do this every so often on my ropes, especially at the beginning of a season. You just don't see the same things in regular use that you do with a dedicated inspection. But, for the most part, you're right. You can get the a reasonable feel for the rope just by using it. After reading your post I started the inspection on my 1yo beal rope, moderate to intense use, and by the time I'd reached 15' I thought **** that, I know it's okay anyway I found it an iteresting post though, and will apply it to any suspect ropes.
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sungam
Aug 29, 2008, 2:49 PM
Post #40 of 54
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All my ropes, save my 2 week old ickle baby, have gone out young due to chemicals (anti-climb paint) or core shots (with added anti-climb paint).
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roughster
Aug 29, 2008, 4:35 PM
Post #41 of 54
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There is an easy rule of thumb to follow for retiring a rope: If you think of a specific rope when you think, "I wonder when it is a good time to retire a rope" then it is time to retire that rope or cut the offending section off. Rope are relatively cheap (~$100) versus hospital bills or death. Why risk it it?
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j_ung
Aug 29, 2008, 5:39 PM
Post #42 of 54
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jt512 wrote: shoo wrote: jt512 wrote: If that's the basic procedure, I'd hate to see the advanced. Jay It's a detailed description of what you're looking for, but the actual process boils down to this: Run the rope through your hands under a little pressure. If anything feels or looks bad, consider retiring. I basically agree with what you listed that you look for, but I question whether you have to routinely perform dedicated checks of your rope. Every time you belay you see and handle a lot of your rope. If you switch ends from time to time, then over the course of a few climbs you handle most, if not all of it, and what you don't handle, you at least see. If you are seconding, then you see, and could, if you wished, handle the entire rope: a portion of it while belaying, the remainder while the leader is pulling up the slack. So, given that in the routine course of climbing, you can basically inspect your rope continually, I question that you have to often, if ever, do a dedicated inspection of it. I can't remember the last time I did one. I may never have. Jay My wife once caught two core shots within five minutes of each other by doing exactly that -- belaying. However, I would rather have found them before tied in and started climbing. However #2, it was a Zephyr.
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sungam
Aug 29, 2008, 6:05 PM
Post #43 of 54
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j_ung wrote: jt512 wrote: shoo wrote: jt512 wrote: If that's the basic procedure, I'd hate to see the advanced. Jay It's a detailed description of what you're looking for, but the actual process boils down to this: Run the rope through your hands under a little pressure. If anything feels or looks bad, consider retiring. I basically agree with what you listed that you look for, but I question whether you have to routinely perform dedicated checks of your rope. Every time you belay you see and handle a lot of your rope. If you switch ends from time to time, then over the course of a few climbs you handle most, if not all of it, and what you don't handle, you at least see. If you are seconding, then you see, and could, if you wished, handle the entire rope: a portion of it while belaying, the remainder while the leader is pulling up the slack. So, given that in the routine course of climbing, you can basically inspect your rope continually, I question that you have to often, if ever, do a dedicated inspection of it. I can't remember the last time I did one. I may never have. Jay My wife once caught two core shots within five minutes of each other by doing exactly that -- belaying. However, I would rather have found them before tied in and started climbing. However #2, it was a Zephyr. the ZYPHER??? O noez!
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markc
Aug 29, 2008, 6:42 PM
Post #44 of 54
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sungam wrote: the ZYPHER??? O noez! Thanks, I still laugh every time I see that.
(This post was edited by markc on Aug 29, 2008, 6:42 PM)
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stymingersfink
Aug 30, 2008, 12:14 AM
Post #45 of 54
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curt wrote: irregularpanda wrote: mtnrock wrote: when should i retier it When the rop (?) experiences incontinence. ...or reaches age 65. Seriously, STFU, eat shit and die. Curt he's just pist because he's already been retired. ^^draw your own conclusions to that statement^^
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stymingersfink
Aug 30, 2008, 12:37 AM
Post #46 of 54
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jt512 wrote: shoo wrote: jt512 wrote: If that's the basic procedure, I'd hate to see the advanced. Jay It's a detailed description of what you're looking for, but the actual process boils down to this: Run the rope through your hands under a little pressure. If anything feels or looks bad, consider retiring. I basically agree with what you listed that you look for, but I question whether you have to routinely perform dedicated checks of your rope. Every time you belay you see and handle a lot of your rope. If you switch ends from time to time, then over the course of a few climbs you handle most, if not all of it, and what you don't handle, you at least see. If you are seconding, then you see, and could, if you wished, handle the entire rope: a portion of it while belaying, the remainder while the leader is pulling up the slack. So, given that in the routine course of climbing, you can basically inspect your rope continually, I question that you have to often, if ever, do a dedicated inspection of it. I can't remember the last time I did one. I may never have. Jay ^^yore rite
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stymingersfink
Aug 30, 2008, 12:43 AM
Post #47 of 54
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chossmonkey wrote: shoo wrote: The requirements for retiring a rope don't change for top-rope vs. lead. I'd disagree. So would I. My lead rope gets retired from leading, whereby it becomes a "TR only" kind of rope.
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knudenoggin
Sep 1, 2008, 3:37 AM
Post #48 of 54
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Bad as the spelling, grammar, & (non-)punctuation were in the OP, it wasn't bad enough to justify the beside-the-point answers: the OP asks When to retire a top rope[full stop (manifest as a "?")]. The UIAA study done of aged ropes found that even the oldest that they tested "held one fall" (as in "severe, UIAA drop-test fall"); they didn't report what "held" meant--within UIAA peak impact-force limits, or just not breaking (the rope)?! In any case, Pit Schubert opined that, for top-roping, ropes can be used safely until their sheath wears through. Recall that one might use low-elongation ropes for TR, after all. TR falls won't generate much load; and the dynamic qualities of climbing ropes which TR & rapping so sap aren't of such importance for TR. *kN*
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shoo
Sep 1, 2008, 6:08 AM
Post #49 of 54
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stymingersfink wrote: chossmonkey wrote: shoo wrote: The requirements for retiring a rope don't change for top-rope vs. lead. I'd disagree. So would I. My lead rope gets retired from leading, whereby it becomes a "TR only" kind of rope. I should amend that statement. I actually do the same with my lead ropes and retire to TR use as well. Perhaps I should have said that the inspection procedure is the same?
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mtnrock
Sep 14, 2008, 8:34 PM
Post #50 of 54
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Registered: Aug 23, 2008
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just saying your probly wasting your time cause im pretty sure your not going have spell words to place protection.
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