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clee03m


Nov 17, 2008, 8:14 AM
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grunts and comments that follow
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So I grunt when I climb. And this weekend, I got so much shitty comments about it. I am finally pushing my limits on gear leads, and I guess I was making some noises. It stared with "That must have been good for her" and the comments and snickering continued until I got upset or may be I just got too high to hear them. Next day, despite that I was leading one of the hardest routes I think I have ever lead, I kept getting distracted by what I may sound like. I guess I grunted anyways because apparantly someone on the next climb asked if someone is giving birth. It doesn't help that the comment was started by a husband of this girl who I would really like to climb more frequently together. I don't know why I get bothered so easily. I wish I could grow a thicker skin because I don't want the assholes to distract me from climbing. Just venting...


lvpyne


Nov 17, 2008, 8:23 AM
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Don't feel too bad. I yelp or squeal. Smile

A month or so ago, I took a HUUUUGE whipper in Black Velvet Canyon and the ensuing squealing noises simply reverberated throughout the entire canyon. I think people in Vegas heard me squawking when I came off that route... I got a lot of comments about that. Smile


lena_chita
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Nov 17, 2008, 8:29 AM
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Sorry, I am sure these types of comments get annoying pretty quickly.

I don't know what is it that makes some people a lot more "noisy" climbers than others. I know both a male and a female who grunt, scream and "vocalize" a lot when climbing. The guy gets a lot of snickering comments about it ( I'm guilty of some of them... I guess i should refrain from saying anything in the future.). I haven't heard many people commenting on the lady.

Thicker skin helps in many cases...

oh, and congratulations on a hard lead!


dingus


Nov 17, 2008, 9:19 AM
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I don't know any compulsive-grunting climbers. I do know a perfectly polite and socially acceptable lady who swears like a sailor as soon as the climbing goes above 5.10.

Like a SAILOR.

Its scandalous! And you'd NEVER hear a foul word from her mouth in any other situation.

Do other physical activities make you grunt too? Are you just a grunter?

Anyway... my real reason for posting to this thread is to offer the following observation:

"ALL LOUD CLIMBERS get made fun of, whether they know it or not."

Book it.

DMT


stonefox


Nov 17, 2008, 9:19 AM
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clee03m wrote:
So I grunt when I climb. And this weekend, I got so much shitty comments about it. I am finally pushing my limits on gear leads, and I guess I was making some noises. It stared with "That must have been good for her" and the comments and snickering continued until I got upset or may be I just got too high to hear them. Next day, despite that I was leading one of the hardest routes I think I have ever lead, I kept getting distracted by what I may sound like. I guess I grunted anyways because apparantly someone on the next climb asked if someone is giving birth. It doesn't help that the comment was started by a husband of this girl who I would really like to climb more frequently together. I don't know why I get bothered so easily. I wish I could grow a thicker skin because I don't want the assholes to distract me from climbing. Just venting...

...so you can't but it's ok for some dudes to climb and make noise like they are passing the dryest stool ever?!
Are you climbing on gear? check
Are you climbing past your limits? check
Are you proud of yourself? check

...i wouldn't give a damn what others think of the noises you make while climbing. Don't distract yourself with this just keep crankin.

And congrats on your accomplishment.

L


(This post was edited by stonefox on Nov 17, 2008, 9:20 AM)


caughtinside


Nov 17, 2008, 9:25 AM
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I heckled a dude a couple weeks ago. He was climbing some hard .12 on the bridger jacks, and making more noise than I'd ever heard a climber make. Grunts and wails that filled the tranquil bowl of the campground and beyond.

I emerged from my lifestyle day malaise. I reached over the edge of my hammock to put down my book and beer and pick up my binoculars. I watched for a second. The grunting continued. The dude was grunting like a dying elephant! He did a move, grunt. he reached to his harness for a cam, grunt.

Finally I could take it no more. I set down my binos. Cupped my hands around my mouth and bellowed

SHUT THE FUCK UP AND CLIMB!!!!

The grunting stopped.

The dude whipped.

It was great.


dingus


Nov 17, 2008, 9:25 AM
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stonefox wrote:
but it's ok for some dudes to climb and make noise like they are passing the dryest stool ever?!

Its all right L - we make fun of them too!

Aaaaaarrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! That was the BEST cheese Saaaaaaaarrrrrggggggghhhhhhhandwich I ever had!!!11111

DMT


stonefox


Nov 17, 2008, 9:56 AM
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dingus wrote:
stonefox wrote:
but it's ok for some dudes to climb and make noise like they are passing the dryest stool ever?!

Its all right L - we make fun of them too!

Aaaaaarrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! That was the BEST cheese Saaaaaaaarrrrrggggggghhhhhhhandwich I ever had!!!11111

DMT

we've all heard it Laugh Laugh Laugh


stonefox


Nov 17, 2008, 9:58 AM
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and also, if I'm making noise while climbing, I know I'm breathing while I'm up there.

Grunt on!


mheyman


Nov 17, 2008, 10:54 AM
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Re: [stonefox] grunts and comments that follow [In reply to]
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stonefox wrote:
clee03m wrote:
So I grunt when I climb. And this weekend, I got so much shitty comments about it. I am finally pushing my limits on gear leads, and I guess I was making some noises. ...I wish I could grow a thicker skin because I don't want the assholes to distract me from climbing. Just venting...

...so you can't but it's ok for some dudes to climb and make noise like they are passing the dryest stool ever?!
Are you climbing on gear? check
Are you climbing past your limits? check
Are you proud of yourself? check

...i wouldn't give a damn what others think of the noises you make while climbing. Don't distract yourself with this just keep crankin.

And congrats on your accomplishment.


In reply to:
SHUT THE FUCK UP AND CLIMB!!!!

The grunting stopped.

The dude whipped.

It was great.

That's funny - but the noise bothered you.

There you go clee03m don't stop making noises for others.

OK, Seriously, most people aren't pushing their limits, and many do have a tendancy to be noiser when they do. Not everyone but enough. Keep pushing. OK again. I meant what I wrote, but its been really hard to resist the puns jokes and questions that come to mind. OK I'll shut up too!


(This post was edited by mheyman on Nov 22, 2008, 9:07 PM)


Gmburns2000


Nov 17, 2008, 11:52 AM
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Eh, I wouldn't worry about it. Seriously, everyone has a quirk like that. The thing is, they're kind of funny, so you have to learn to laugh at yourself. People aren't laughing at you because they're being mean, but more because they identify with you and realize that it doesn't mean anything.

I, for one, have a much more embarrassing problem: instead of grunting, I fart...LOUDLY. It has brought on more than just the quiet snicker from the peanut gallery. Am I going to stop climbing because people laughed at me? Hell no. Is it embarrassing? Hell yea. It's hard to look people in the eye afterward once you're known as "that guy who farts while climbing."

Trust me and just embrace your quirk. We don't love people for their accomplishments (that's what admiration is for), we love them for their faults. We identify with people with faults because that is what makes us human. And if there's nothing you can do about it, then don't.


dingus


Nov 17, 2008, 12:17 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
Eh, I wouldn't worry about it. Seriously, everyone has a quirk like that. The thing is, they're kind of funny, so you have to learn to laugh at yourself. People aren't laughing at you because they're being mean, but more because they identify with you and realize that it doesn't mean anything.

I, for one, have a much more embarrassing problem: instead of grunting, I fart...LOUDLY. It has brought on more than just the quiet snicker from the peanut gallery. Am I going to stop climbing because people laughed at me? Hell no. Is it embarrassing? Hell yea. It's hard to look people in the eye afterward once you're known as "that guy who farts while climbing."

Trust me and just embrace your quirk. We don't love people for their accomplishments (that's what admiration is for), we love them for their faults. We identify with people with faults because that is what makes us human. And if there's nothing you can do about it, then don't.

Rolled into Lover's Leap late one evening. Sported a bad case of the ass gas whilst getting stuff from the car to the camp. Farted loudly many-a-time. Stinkers too, made Burl puke (seriously?).

Anyway, the next morning we were standing next to Burl's truck, a-rackin up. Next to us the slide door on a VW camper bus glided open and a goddess emerged from within.

She took one look at us and in perfect Queen's English inquired,

"Which one of you is the fatah?"

Burl and I immediately pointed at each other!

True.

DMT


Partner lwilson


Nov 17, 2008, 1:28 PM
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Gmburns2000 that put a smile on my face! Thanks for sharing that ;)


Gmburns2000 wrote:
Eh, I wouldn't worry about it. Seriously, everyone has a quirk like that. The thing is, they're kind of funny, so you have to learn to laugh at yourself. People aren't laughing at you because they're being mean, but more because they identify with you and realize that it doesn't mean anything.

I, for one, have a much more embarrassing problem: instead of grunting, I fart...LOUDLY. It has brought on more than just the quiet snicker from the peanut gallery. Am I going to stop climbing because people laughed at me? Hell no. Is it embarrassing? Hell yea. It's hard to look people in the eye afterward once you're known as "that guy who farts while climbing."

Trust me and just embrace your quirk. We don't love people for their accomplishments (that's what admiration is for), we love them for their faults. We identify with people with faults because that is what makes us human. And if there's nothing you can do about it, then don't.


clee03m


Nov 17, 2008, 1:32 PM
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It was all the female specific comments, especially sexual comments, that bothered me. If they told me I sounded like I was having a bowel movement, I don't think I would have been as uncomfortable.


Gmburns2000


Nov 17, 2008, 1:35 PM
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I do what I can. Wink


lwilson wrote:
Gmburns2000 that put a smile on my face! Thanks for sharing that ;)


Gmburns2000 wrote:
Eh, I wouldn't worry about it. Seriously, everyone has a quirk like that. The thing is, they're kind of funny, so you have to learn to laugh at yourself. People aren't laughing at you because they're being mean, but more because they identify with you and realize that it doesn't mean anything.

I, for one, have a much more embarrassing problem: instead of grunting, I fart...LOUDLY. It has brought on more than just the quiet snicker from the peanut gallery. Am I going to stop climbing because people laughed at me? Hell no. Is it embarrassing? Hell yea. It's hard to look people in the eye afterward once you're known as "that guy who farts while climbing."

Trust me and just embrace your quirk. We don't love people for their accomplishments (that's what admiration is for), we love them for their faults. We identify with people with faults because that is what makes us human. And if there's nothing you can do about it, then don't.


acacongua


Nov 18, 2008, 6:06 AM
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I used to make a lot of interesting noises - and I wasn't even aware of it! I guess they were interesting enough that someone said, "When Stephanie climbs, I just sit back and close my eyes." It was definitely embarrassing for me, but my current partner says that I'm quiet.

It was nothing to get upset over. When I hear vocal people now, I think the same thoughts people thought of me. It really is something to laugh about - and when you laugh at yourself, you're a more enjoyable climbing partner.

As you become stronger and more comfortable on the rock, you'll probably tone it down. Save for when you hit the crux.


granite_grrl


Nov 18, 2008, 6:25 AM
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Making sounds on the rock is funny. Other people are laughing at you, and often the best solution is just to laugh right along with it.

I'm not a grunter, but I am a screamer when I fall. Often big falls are also accompinied by some tears too. Its best when I laugh at myself because I screamed like a little girl, tell my belayer to give me a minute to wipe my eyes and then get climbing again.

I will also admit I have farted on strenuous parts of climbs on more than one occation. Often its best to tell your belayer that you're just trying to get a little lift to get you through the crux. Laugh

If you can't change the attitudes of those around you it's best to change the attitude of yourself.


shimmer


Nov 18, 2008, 6:37 AM
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clee03m wrote:
It was all the female specific comments, especially sexual comments, that bothered me. If they told me I sounded like I was having a bowel movement, I don't think I would have been as uncomfortable.
Next time one of the peanut gallery is on the wall, making noise (as they will more than likely do), make the offhand comment that they sound like a goat being anally raped by a grizzly bear on every move, and at least when a girl grunts, it's hot. They just sound cheesy.
Or, you can completely ignore it, roll your eyes, and keep climbing.


timstich


Nov 24, 2008, 8:10 AM
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It's funny, on another thread some of us are discussing how many friends we have actually watched die from accidents while climbing. Yet you are concerned about being teased about grunting noises.

Too funny.


mojomonkey


Nov 24, 2008, 8:22 AM
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timstich wrote:
It's funny, on another thread some of us are discussing how many friends we have actually watched die from accidents while climbing. Yet you are concerned about being teased about grunting noises.

Too funny.

Don't mind me rooting around in your pack over here... Hey man, why are you getting so upset about theft? It isn't like you died because of it... How can you justify having a concern or discussion about anything but the gravest matters?


dingus


Nov 24, 2008, 8:36 AM
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OK back to the grunting thing.

Remember the tennis player, Monica Seles?

wikipedia wrote:
With punishing, sharp-angled two-fisted forehand and backhand shots and a dominating return of serve, Seles is considered by many to be the first "power player" in the women's game, paving the way for players such as Venus and Serena Williams, Lindsay Davenport, and Maria Sharapova.[citation needed] She was also well-known for grunting loudly on court. On a few occasions, her opponents claimed that the grunting was distracting and prevented them from hearing the ball make contact with her racquet

So maybe those detractors of yours are concerned they can't hear the biner snap for all that grunting?

As an aside, I remember when Monica Seles opponents complained about her endless series of grunts.

I'm glad they did as I felt her verbal ejaculations were very distracting as a viewer. I pretty much refused to watch her for any length of time as a result.

Now interestingly, she stopped grunting (as a result of the complaints) and started losing - though she was getting past her prime by then anyway.

So on the one hand I say 'grunt on' - you GO GIRL. You stop grunting and you might start falling.

On the other I say STFU! Give us a BREAK here woman!

Life is like that sometimes.

Do you grunt elsewhere?

DMT


Gmburns2000


Nov 24, 2008, 8:40 AM
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dingus wrote:
OK back to the grunting thing.

Remember the tennis player, Monica Seles?

wikipedia wrote:
With punishing, sharp-angled two-fisted forehand and backhand shots and a dominating return of serve, Seles is considered by many to be the first "power player" in the women's game, paving the way for players such as Venus and Serena Williams, Lindsay Davenport, and Maria Sharapova.[citation needed] She was also well-known for grunting loudly on court. On a few occasions, her opponents claimed that the grunting was distracting and prevented them from hearing the ball make contact with her racquet

So maybe those detractors of yours are concerned they can't hear the biner snap for all that grunting?

As an aside, I remember when Monica Seles opponents complained about her endless series of grunts.

I'm glad they did as I felt her verbal ejaculations were very distracting as a viewer. I pretty much refused to watch her for any length of time as a result.

Now interestingly, she stopped grunting (as a result of the complaints) and started losing - though she was getting past her prime by then anyway.

So on the one hand I say 'grunt on' - you GO GIRL. You stop grunting and you might start falling.

On the other I say STFU! Give us a BREAK here woman!

Life is like that sometimes.

Do you grunt elsewhere?

DMT

Key point is bold.


timstich


Nov 24, 2008, 9:24 AM
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Touché, mojomonkey.


(This post was edited by timstich on Nov 24, 2008, 9:26 AM)


clee03m


Nov 24, 2008, 9:40 AM
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For the tim guy, what would not be funny is if 'in the memory of' forum was the only one at rc.com to meet your high standard. So I shouldn't complain about my discomfort while people post such serious subjects like who is the hottest climbing chick/dude and where to buy a pink climbing shoes? Once again, thicker skin would be so nice.

As far as grunting I grunt in general. I for sure grunt when I play raquetball. But just the other day, some guy at the gym was like, "yeah, we call that girl (not referring to me) the 'orgasmic girl.' You know, she is just trying to get attention from men." For the record, I think most women climbers don't make noises to attract men. I certainly don't. *sigh*

And you know what? I climb the same climb where someone said I sounded like I was giving birth with a conscious effort not to make noises, and what did I do at the crux?

Fell.


dingus


Nov 24, 2008, 9:42 AM
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clee03m wrote:
And you know what? I climb the same climb where someone said I sounded like I was giving birth with a conscious effort not to make noises, and what did I do at the crux?

Fell.

Hi Monica!

DMT


timstich


Nov 24, 2008, 9:51 AM
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Just putting your problem into perspective. You may look back one day on this "problem" and wonder why you ever cared.


(This post was edited by timstich on Nov 24, 2008, 9:52 AM)


Gmburns2000


Nov 24, 2008, 9:58 AM
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clee03m wrote:
For the tim guy, what would not be funny is if 'in the memory of' forum was the only one at rc.com to meet your high standard. So I shouldn't complain about my discomfort while people post such serious subjects like who is the hottest climbing chick/dude and where to buy a pink climbing shoes? Once again, thicker skin would be so nice.

As far as grunting I grunt in general. I for sure grunt when I play raquetball. But just the other day, some guy at the gym was like, "yeah, we call that girl (not referring to me) the 'orgasmic girl.' You know, she is just trying to get attention from men." For the record, I think most women climbers don't make noises to attract men. I certainly don't. *sigh*

And you know what? I climb the same climb where someone said I sounded like I was giving birth with a conscious effort not to make noises, and what did I do at the crux?

Fell.

Further evidence that you shouldn't let it bother you. After all, the only one you have to worry about is you. If the content of the comments are bothersome, then don't associate with that person. God knows I've had enough people call me bad things in my lifetime. I just don't deal with them any more. Can't make everyone happy, so why try?

Next time you're on the crux, grunt louder, and bathe in the warm glow of personal success.


wonderwoman


Nov 24, 2008, 12:05 PM
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Personally, I am a mostly quiet climber but I am sometimes surprised at some of the yelps that erupt out of my throat when I take a fall or pull a hard move. And even on some of those rare occasions, I have heard people make comments, but only in the gym and not on real rock. So, in Cle03m's case maybe they are just showing her that they are jealous, but in a really lame way!

Gmburns2000 wrote:
clee03m wrote:
As far as grunting I grunt in general. I for sure grunt when I play raquetball. But just the other day, some guy at the gym was like, "yeah, we call that girl (not referring to me) the 'orgasmic girl.' You know, she is just trying to get attention from men." For the record, I think most women climbers don't make noises to attract men. I certainly don't. *sigh*

Further evidence that you shouldn't let it bother you.

I think this is further evidence that should bother everybody. Cle03m most likely posted this in the ladies room because many men can't relate to every action they take as being put into a sexual context. It's really not fun.

Think about it... Someone posts up about only liking a female belayer so he can get a glimpse down her shirt... Others refer to fear or weakness in terms of a female body part, as if fear and weakness are female traits.

This is crap that we have to put up with all the time and I think it's important for everyone to speak up about it when they see it. And yes, even to the person making the lame comments.


marebear


Nov 24, 2008, 12:19 PM
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The Ladies Room: A place for women to share their experiences, ask female-related questions and get empowered in a safe environment. All are free to post, but keep maturity in mind.

Keep the above in mind, Tim.

To the OP, I squeek, scream and grunt while I climb. Often I find that after taking a whipper, everyone on the ground is too busy laughing at the noise I made as I flew through the air to let me know what I might have done to stay on the rock. I feel your pain. Sometimes a well placed "Shut the @&%! up and let me climb!" will do the trick to quiet the peanut gallery.


kiwiprincess


Nov 24, 2008, 12:29 PM
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To be honest I would probably laugh at you too ....but if the stuff they say bothers you, say "Thats enough of that talk thanks". "Get your mind out of the gutter"
I had a climbing partner that commented on my appearance (cleavage) and stuff and I asked him to stop....he still lapses occasionally but none of the others go along with it since i made it clear that i didn't like it, and it settles down quickly.


Gmburns2000


Nov 24, 2008, 12:39 PM
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wonderwoman wrote:
Personally, I am a mostly quiet climber but I am sometimes surprised at some of the yelps that erupt out of my throat when I take a fall or pull a hard move. And even on some of those rare occasions, I have heard people make comments, but only in the gym and not on real rock. So, in Cle03m's case maybe they are just showing her that they are jealous, but in a really lame way!

Gmburns2000 wrote:
clee03m wrote:
As far as grunting I grunt in general. I for sure grunt when I play raquetball. But just the other day, some guy at the gym was like, "yeah, we call that girl (not referring to me) the 'orgasmic girl.' You know, she is just trying to get attention from men." For the record, I think most women climbers don't make noises to attract men. I certainly don't. *sigh*

Further evidence that you shouldn't let it bother you.

I think this is further evidence that should bother everybody. Cle03m most likely posted this in the ladies room because many men can't relate to every action they take as being put into a sexual context. It's really not fun.

Think about it... Someone posts up about only liking a female belayer so he can get a glimpse down her shirt... Others refer to fear or weakness in terms of a female body part, as if fear and weakness are female traits.

This is crap that we have to put up with all the time and I think it's important for everyone to speak up about it when they see it. And yes, even to the person making the lame comments.

I don't know, Tiff. To make the assumption that there are no pressures placed on men because they're men is kind of foolish. I'm not advocating that women should just suck it up. Instead, I'm advocating taking a less gender-sensitive approach to live life as an individual. OK, sure, men make lousy and sexist remarks to women, but they also make comments to other men, too. You very likely don't see the non-verbal communication that goes on even in our gym. Do I know where I stand with regards to those ripped boulderers who can jump on any 5.11 that I'm hangdogging? You betcha I do, and it likely isn't because I simply know they are better than me. Even in an gentile conversation among friends, if I talk about how a route or particular move is tough for me then I may get verbal sympathy but the look in his eye is saying, "I'm being nice but I think you're a wimp."

I'm not on a quest to change how people view others, but I do firmly believe that if we act as individuals then we're likely to find the respect that we seek, regardless of gender, race, or any other identifying element. There will always be jerks, and spending one's time trying to change all of those jerks may be worthwhile, but only to a certain degree. I mean, how many billions of men are there in this world? Seriously, are you going to try and change every single one who makes a lousy comment? Maybe you would, but I'd rather focus on myself rather than waste my time on people who aren't going to change because I think that I will find where I need to be in the end, and that place will make me much happier than focusing on how everyone else treats me. It's the old adage of you can't love anyone else unless you love yourself first. By her focusing on her needs more, I bet she doesn't hear the other comments in a way that bothers her (note: the comments will still be there, but they won't pierce as much). At least that works for me, and this is coming from the guy who was always the weakling (i.e. - bullied) growing up who always knew where he stood in the male pecking order. You have to believe that this isn't a one-way conversation.


wonderwoman


Nov 24, 2008, 1:47 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
I don't know, Tiff. To make the assumption that there are no pressures placed on men because they're men is kind of foolish.

It's not foolish. I'm saying that it's a whole different topic. The OP is saying that she is receiving unwanted sexual comments. I don't think that you can relate to that. I don't think that you can compare your life experiences to this, no matter how crappy those experiences may be.

Gmburns2000 wrote:
You very likely don't see the non-verbal communication that goes on even in our gym.

I am a woman and a climber. I am very aware of chest thumping and people comparing themselves to others. If I am getting the elitist vibe from someone, I just don't talk with her anymore. If my interactions with someone make me feel badly about myself, in or out of climbing, then I don't interact with that person anymore.

Gmburns2000 wrote:
Do I know where I stand with regards to those ripped boulderers who can jump on any 5.11 that I'm hangdogging? You betcha I do, and it likely isn't because I simply know they are better than me. Even in an gentile conversation among friends, if I talk about how a route or particular move is tough for me then I may get verbal sympathy but the look in his eye is saying, "I'm being nice but I think you're a wimp."

You will be a happier climber if you stop comparing yourself to other people. But, again, don't you think that getting a 'look' after talking about a tough move is a lot different than being openly harassed in public? You were soliciting a conversation with someone. The OP wasn't looking for sexual comments on her vocal climbing style. It's different.

Gmburns2000 wrote:
Seriously, are you going to try and change every single one who makes a lousy comment?

If I don't comment on these things when they happen, then they will keep happening. Maybe the person who happens to be saying these things hasn't even thought of why it might be wrong or how gross and inappropriate his comments are to other people. You don't have to be mean when you bring these things up - but it does more harm than good not to address these issues when they happen. (If it persists, that's when it is time to get mean! Mad)

Gmburns2000 wrote:
It's the old adage of you can't love anyone else unless you love yourself first.

If I didn't love myself very much, then I would let people get away with making harassing comments. Smile


(This post was edited by wonderwoman on Nov 24, 2008, 1:56 PM)


Gmburns2000


Nov 24, 2008, 2:21 PM
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wonderwoman wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
I don't know, Tiff. To make the assumption that there are no pressures placed on men because they're men is kind of foolish.

It's not foolish. I'm saying that it's a whole different topic. The OP is saying that she is receiving unwanted sexual comments. I don't think that you can relate to that. I don't think that you can compare your life experiences to this, no matter how crappy those experiences may be.

I guess we disagree here. I consider unwanted comments to be unwanted, regardless of content.

In reply to:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
You very likely don't see the non-verbal communication that goes on even in our gym.

I am a woman and a climber. I am very aware of chest thumping and people comparing themselves to others. If I am getting the elitist vibe from someone, I just don't talk with her anymore. If my interactions with someone make me feel badly about myself, in or out of climbing, then I don't interact with that person anymore.

This is exactly what I'm saying, so we do agree on this point. Cool

In reply to:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
Do I know where I stand with regards to those ripped boulderers who can jump on any 5.11 that I'm hangdogging? You betcha I do, and it likely isn't because I simply know they are better than me. Even in an gentile conversation among friends, if I talk about how a route or particular move is tough for me then I may get verbal sympathy but the look in his eye is saying, "I'm being nice but I think you're a wimp."

You will be a happier climber if you stop comparing yourself to other people. But, again, don't you think that getting a 'look' after talking about a tough move is a lot different than being openly harassed in public? You were soliciting a conversation with someone. The OP wasn't looking for sexual comments on her vocal climbing style. It's different.

I guess my example was poor. I don't mean to suggest that the non-verbal communication was solicited, but that it can happen even under "friendly" fire. Non-verbal communication is almost always unsolicited. That's partly how the pecking order is established to begin with.

In reply to:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
Seriously, are you going to try and change every single one who makes a lousy comment?

If I don't comment on these things when they happen, then they will keep happening. Maybe the person who happens to be saying these things hasn't even thought of why it might be wrong or how gross and inappropriate his comments are to other people. You don't have to be mean when you bring these things up - but it does more harm than good not to address these issues when they happen. (If it persists, that's when it is time to get mean! Mad)

I can't disagree with this, and I'm not advocating ignoring the problem so that it will go away. All I'm saying is that the comments are less likely to happen with someone who is more confident and clearly won't be bothered. After all, the comments are meant to spur a reaction. If no reaction is recieved, then what's the point of commenting?

For example: I've heard a lot of fat / bald jokes in my time (going based my assumption that all unwanted comments are unwanted) and they've almost never been desireable to hear (I admit it - THEY HURT!). I only get them now from people who I know are definitely not being malicious. I may still get them from other people, but I simply don't notice it from them anymore. It just doesn't bother me like it used to because it's who I am and I'm OK with that, and I think that last point goes a long way toward establishing the rules that your acquaintances live by. I'm OK enough with myself to realize that fat and bald aren't going to inhibit me in any way.

In reply to:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
It's the old adage of you can't love anyone else unless you love yourself first.

If I didn't love myself very much, then I would let people get away with making harassing comments. Smile

On the contrary, I think it's the other way around. I think the comments hurt your pride, and that causes you to react. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. I'm saying that I would never make that kind of comment about you because I don't see you in such a way that would garner that kind of comment from me. In other words (more generally) if I didn't think you were weak, then I wouldn't bother.

See you at the gym...AngelicCoolPirateShockedUnsureSmile


Partner macherry


Nov 24, 2008, 3:39 PM
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marebear wrote:
The Ladies Room: A place for women to share their experiences, ask female-related questions and get empowered in a safe environment. All are free to post, but keep maturity in mind.

Keep the above in mind, Tim.

To the OP, I squeek, scream and grunt while I climb. Often I find that after taking a whipper, everyone on the ground is too busy laughing at the noise I made as I flew through the air to let me know what I might have done to stay on the rock. I feel your pain. Sometimes a well placed "Shut the @&%! up and let me climb!" will do the trick to quiet the peanut gallery.

hey lets not over think things here.

tim had a valid point, there are worse things to worry about than a few remarks about grunting while climbing. it does give some perspective.


marebear


Nov 24, 2008, 7:49 PM
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Yeah, there are more important things to worry about; but, does that mean I can't cry when I dislocate my shoulder because someone else just died from cancer? Every thing can be put in perspective. I thought his comment was out of place.


Maddhatter


Nov 24, 2008, 8:43 PM
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clee03m wrote:
So I grunt when I climb. And this weekend, I got so much shitty comments about it. I am finally pushing my limits on gear leads, and I guess I was making some noises. It stared with "That must have been good for her" and the comments and snickering continued until I got upset or may be I just got too high to hear them. Next day, despite that I was leading one of the hardest routes I think I have ever lead, I kept getting distracted by what I may sound like. I guess I grunted anyways because apparantly someone on the next climb asked if someone is giving birth. It doesn't help that the comment was started by a husband of this girl who I would really like to climb more frequently together. I don't know why I get bothered so easily. I wish I could grow a thicker skin because I don't want the assholes to distract me from climbing. Just venting...


First , If you are getting distracted this easy your not really at your limit. I block out every thing but my belayer on climbs that are at my limit and don't hear shit.

2nd , Fuck um

3rd , So your different so what? Life would really be a boar if we were all the same.

4th , Lot's of people make noises when they climb hard. It's not like your the only one.

You should remember when you push to much air out it can be hard to recover fast and hurt you on the next move. How you breath on a climb can make a HUGE difference in how well you climb. But grunting on a crux or hard move is pretty dam normal.


(This post was edited by Maddhatter on Nov 24, 2008, 8:44 PM)


Partner macherry


Nov 24, 2008, 9:13 PM
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marebear wrote:
Yeah, there are more important things to worry about; but, does that mean I can't cry when I dislocate my shoulder because someone else just died from cancer? Every thing can be put in perspective. I thought his comment was out of place.

no, i'm not saying that.

his comment was not a personal attack, just an observation.


markhwebster


Nov 25, 2008, 1:19 PM
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so, I probably shouldn't post in here since I'm not a lady, and cleo has sometimes accused me of not even being a gentleman, but I was cleo's belayer during the event in question.

She does make noise (as many of us do), and that day it was making some of us uneasy because the noises she makes while she is exerting are a little unusual. Not weird or twisted or anything, just a woman working hard and kind of squeaking, or grunting.

I personally think they are cute sounds, and have no problem with them as I am a grunter myself and have been known to do bad yodeling at anchors. But some of the others (mostly guys) standing around had not heard them before...and, guys being guys, we were all kind of looking at each other and smiling a little and trying not to say anything.

Cleo was leading a very vertical hard and sustained trad route, and doing awesome so I didn't want to distract her...but the sounds were making things a little tense on the ground.

I take full blame for starting it as I think I said, "is it just me, or does that sound like something else?" And it went downhill from there, but with no more participation from me. But at least it broke the tension and everyone busted up, at which point Cleo told us all to STFU and we all continued our day. And she did send the climb, pulling off a desperate offwidth move.

I had no idea it had hurt Cleo's feelings and I feel terrible for that. Still, thick skin can go a long way out there in the rough and tumble. I've certainly developed quite a thick hide over the years, so thick in fact that sometimes it's hard for me to be sensitive to the feelings of others, though I'm always trying.

Hope that helps Cleo, and I promise not to prowl into your ladies room again. By the way, you are climbing awesome! I can't believe how far you've come since spring. You went from never leading trad to on-sighting 10a's...amazing!


Partner macherry


Nov 25, 2008, 7:15 PM
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markhwebster wrote:
so, I probably shouldn't post in here since I'm not a lady, and cleo has sometimes accused me of not even being a gentleman, but I was cleo's belayer during the event in question.

She does make noise (as many of us do), and that day it was making some of us uneasy because the noises she makes while she is exerting are a little unusual. Not weird or twisted or anything, just a woman working hard and kind of squeaking, or grunting.

I personally think they are cute sounds, and have no problem with them as I am a grunter myself and have been known to do bad yodeling at anchors. But some of the others (mostly guys) standing around had not heard them before...and, guys being guys, we were all kind of looking at each other and smiling a little and trying not to say anything.

Cleo was leading a very vertical hard and sustained trad route, and doing awesome so I didn't want to distract her...but the sounds were making things a little tense on the ground.

I take full blame for starting it as I think I said, "is it just me, or does that sound like something else?" And it went downhill from there, but with no more participation from me. But at least it broke the tension and everyone busted up, at which point Cleo told us all to STFU and we all continued our day. And she did send the climb, pulling off a desperate offwidth move.

I had no idea it had hurt Cleo's feelings and I feel terrible for that. Still, thick skin can go a long way out there in the rough and tumble. I've certainly developed quite a thick hide over the years, so thick in fact that sometimes it's hard for me to be sensitive to the feelings of others, though I'm always trying.

Hope that helps Cleo, and I promise not to prowl into your ladies room again. By the way, you are climbing awesome! I can't believe how far you've come since spring. You went from never leading trad to on-sighting 10a's...amazing!

did you think your comments might be distracting to cleo during her lead?

i don't know how her grunts could make things tense on the ground. i would just say grow up!!!!


wonderwoman


Nov 26, 2008, 5:35 AM
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markhwebster wrote:
I take full blame for starting it as I think I said, "is it just me, or does that sound like something else?" And it went downhill from there, but with no more participation from me. But at least it broke the tension and everyone busted up, at which point Cleo told us all to STFU and we all continued our day. And she did send the climb, pulling off a desperate offwidth move.

Would you have said this if it had been a man grunting his way up? I would certainly not feel comfortable climbing with a group of guys who did this to me.


robbovius


Nov 26, 2008, 6:29 AM
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clee03m wrote:
So I grunt when I climb. And this weekend, I got so much shitty comments about it. I am finally pushing my limits on gear leads, and I guess I was making some noises. It stared with "That must have been good for her" and the comments and snickering continued until I got upset or may be I just got too high to hear them. Next day, despite that I was leading one of the hardest routes I think I have ever lead, I kept getting distracted by what I may sound like. I guess I grunted anyways because apparantly someone on the next climb asked if someone is giving birth. It doesn't help that the comment was started by a husband of this girl who I would really like to climb more frequently together. I don't know why I get bothered so easily. I wish I could grow a thicker skin because I don't want the assholes to distract me from climbing. Just venting...

No, this speaks more to the immaturity of the guys around while you were leading, than anything you were doing.

It also speaks to some insecurity you might have of how you are perceived by people in social situations.

vocalizing under hard exertion - combined with fear, as is the case when leading something hard - is perfectly normal. it can be dificult to let go of it, but try not to let it get to you.


clee03m


Nov 26, 2008, 7:13 AM
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I was causing tension on the ground.... Jesus Christ, I really like you, but you are an idiot sometimes. I thought the whole thing was started by K's husband, and you should have left it off at that. Now we are going to have a little chat.

BTW, thanks for your kind words, but one 10a redpoint does not an onsighting 10's make.


timstich


Nov 26, 2008, 8:48 AM
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On a related note, I was surprised to hear that Planet Fitness asks weight lifters not to grunt loudly while lifting weights, amongst other silly requests. Weird. They have even kicked members out for that.

http://wcbstv.com/...tchess.2.239424.html

Is grunting some sort of endangered activity now?


(This post was edited by timstich on Nov 26, 2008, 9:00 AM)


Partner j_ung


Nov 26, 2008, 9:16 AM
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wonderwoman wrote:
markhwebster wrote:
I take full blame for starting it as I think I said, "is it just me, or does that sound like something else?" And it went downhill from there, but with no more participation from me. But at least it broke the tension and everyone busted up, at which point Cleo told us all to STFU and we all continued our day. And she did send the climb, pulling off a desperate offwidth move.

Would you have said this if it had been a man grunting his way up? I would certainly not feel comfortable climbing with a group of guys who did this to me.

I would have. Actually, my double standard trends the opposite. When any of my male climbing partners get too vocal, I'm merciless. When female partners do it, I pretend not to notice.


Gmburns2000


Nov 26, 2008, 9:23 AM
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j_ung wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:
markhwebster wrote:
I take full blame for starting it as I think I said, "is it just me, or does that sound like something else?" And it went downhill from there, but with no more participation from me. But at least it broke the tension and everyone busted up, at which point Cleo told us all to STFU and we all continued our day. And she did send the climb, pulling off a desperate offwidth move.

Would you have said this if it had been a man grunting his way up? I would certainly not feel comfortable climbing with a group of guys who did this to me.

I would have. Actually, my double standard trends the opposite. When any of my male climbing partners get too vocal, I'm merciless. When female partners do it, I pretend not to notice.


Yeah, I have to agree. My sword knows no prejudice, and I've even been known to stab myself more often than not when swinging it.


caughtinside


Nov 26, 2008, 11:35 AM
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I'm going to make a short list of actions by the climber and the appropriate reaction by the belay/ground crew/peanut gallery:

Sex noises=snicker, heckle
excessive grunting=snicker, heckle
whining=snicker, heckle
crying=snicker, heckle
giving birth noises=snicker, heckle
moaning=snicker, heckle
beached whale mantles=snicker, heckle
calling take=snicker, heckle, penalty slack
french free=snicker, heckle


mindaa


Nov 26, 2008, 12:27 PM
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markhwebster wrote:
I take full blame for starting it as I think I said, "is it just me, or does that sound like something else?" And it went downhill from there, but with no more participation from me. But at least it broke the tension and everyone busted up

I used to climb with guys like this and it would get me all embarrased and upset...until I realized that they were just getting all hot and bothered wondering if the climbing noises really are the same as during other activities...which of course none of those a-holes were ever going to find out.

So then when it started up I could blow it off and just think smugly to myself, "haha, yeah, wouldn't you like to know, moron."

It's annoying, but would probably be a lot more awkward if I insisted that the guys couldn't be themselves at all when I was climbing with them. That's just what they think about, uncomfortable as it can be for us.


bizarrodrinker


Nov 29, 2008, 12:23 AM
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my gf snorts when she laughs. I think it is cute as hell.

A guy at my gym fiiiiirrrrrrrtttttttssss from jug to jug whilest a friend does while crank really hard.

Not sure where I am going with this except: Do what ya gotta do to pull thru.


htotsu


Dec 7, 2008, 10:40 AM
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markhwebster wrote:
I personally think they are cute sounds, and have no problem with them as I am a grunter myself and have been known to do bad yodeling at anchors. But some of the others (mostly guys) standing around had not heard them before...and, guys being guys, we were all kind of looking at each other and smiling a little and trying not to say anything.
...
I take full blame for starting it as I think I said, "is it just me, or does that sound like something else?" And it went downhill from there, but with no more participation from me.

Damn, man. This is so disappointing. You have no problem with the sounds and make some yourself, yet rather than point that out to the guys, you you decided to INITIATE the aforementioned conversation at the expense of YOUR CLIMBING PARTNER. Weak. Had it crossed your mind that they were waiting for you, her partner, to set the tone for how to respond to those sounds? Well, you did. And they followed suit.

To top it off, you're looking around at them and smiling, looking for their approval, rather than watching YOUR CLIMBING PARTNER (you were belaying, no?) and telling those guys, "This is just the way she climbs, and by the way, look how good she is." Or "So it sounds weird. It obviously works for her. See?"

And don't give me that "guys being guys" bullshit. That's just an excuse to justify behavior you know is stupid, and it won't fly in here. Take responsibility for your choice to sell her out to get a laugh from the guys when you could have chosen to stand up for her.

And you may have been trying to make yourself look better by pointing out that it continued "with no more participation from [you]", but it only serves to point out that you never decided to stop them and redirect the conversation. It took some guts to post here and say that you feel bad, so I won't take that away from you. But those guts would have served you better on the day in question by remembering that your priority should have been looking out for the woman at the other end of the rope, not trying to impress the guys on the ground.


rockie


Dec 7, 2008, 12:39 PM
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clee03m wrote:
So I grunt when I climb. And this weekend, I got so much shitty comments about it. I am finally pushing my limits on gear leads, and I guess I was making some noises. It stared with "That must have been good for her" and the comments and snickering continued until I got upset or may be I just got too high to hear them. Next day, despite that I was leading one of the hardest routes I think I have ever lead, I kept getting distracted by what I may sound like. I guess I grunted anyways because apparantly someone on the next climb asked if someone is giving birth. It doesn't help that the comment was started by a husband of this girl who I would really like to climb more frequently together. I don't know why I get bothered so easily. I wish I could grow a thicker skin because I don't want the assholes to distract me from climbing. Just venting...

Ignore the A.holes and grunt make noise, just don't scream that part is all that annoys me in the gyms etc, very distracting when I am climbing.

In Martial arts, which I used to do, it was encouraged and normal to grunt etc, it helped to push yourself in some way.


dingus


Dec 8, 2008, 7:05 AM
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htotsu wrote:
markhwebster wrote:
I personally think they are cute sounds, and have no problem with them as I am a grunter myself and have been known to do bad yodeling at anchors. But some of the others (mostly guys) standing around had not heard them before...and, guys being guys, we were all kind of looking at each other and smiling a little and trying not to say anything.
...
I take full blame for starting it as I think I said, "is it just me, or does that sound like something else?" And it went downhill from there, but with no more participation from me.

Damn, man. This is so disappointing. You have no problem with the sounds and make some yourself, yet rather than point that out to the guys, you you decided to INITIATE the aforementioned conversation at the expense of YOUR CLIMBING PARTNER. Weak. Had it crossed your mind that they were waiting for you, her partner, to set the tone for how to respond to those sounds? Well, you did. And they followed suit.

To top it off, you're looking around at them and smiling, looking for their approval, rather than watching YOUR CLIMBING PARTNER (you were belaying, no?) and telling those guys, "This is just the way she climbs, and by the way, look how good she is." Or "So it sounds weird. It obviously works for her. See?"

And don't give me that "guys being guys" bullshit. That's just an excuse to justify behavior you know is stupid, and it won't fly in here. Take responsibility for your choice to sell her out to get a laugh from the guys when you could have chosen to stand up for her.

And you may have been trying to make yourself look better by pointing out that it continued "with no more participation from [you]", but it only serves to point out that you never decided to stop them and redirect the conversation. It took some guts to post here and say that you feel bad, so I won't take that away from you. But those guts would have served you better on the day in question by remembering that your priority should have been looking out for the woman at the other end of the rope, not trying to impress the guys on the ground.

^^^^^
The guy with the folk guitar, sleeve-tied sweater draped over over his shoulders...

DMT


dingus


Dec 8, 2008, 7:07 AM
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rockie wrote:
Ignore the A.holes and grunt make noise, just don't scream that part is all that annoys me in the gyms etc, very distracting when I am climbing.

So its OK to get annoyed and distracted by screaming but grunts are off route?

Just want to be sure I have all this written down correctly....

DMT


Gmburns2000


Dec 8, 2008, 7:48 AM
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rockie wrote:

In Martial arts, which I used to do, it was encouraged and normal to grunt etc, it helped to push yourself in some way.

It's not that it helped to push you, but more as a means of getting you to exhale when exerting yourself physically. Exhaling upon exertion is a fairly common technique in many physical pursuits. Weightlifters are supposed to exhale when pushing upward on a bench press, for example. Baseball players are meant to exhale upon swinging the bat. Exhaling relaxes the body and allows the muscles to do what you're asking them to do as opposed to allowing your lungs to take up neccessary attention while they hold your breath. Grunting or screaming are just other ways of exhaling.


robbovius


Dec 8, 2008, 12:23 PM
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rockie wrote:
In Martial arts, which I used to do, it was encouraged and normal to grunt etc, it helped to push yourself in some way.

What greg mentions is true, but vocalising can also help release emotional energy that comes from fear and stress, as related to pushing thru a hard move or sequence of moves, on a route. my climbing partners all mention the vocalizations I make when pushing thru difficult moves. I refer to that as part of my focus mechanism.

if I think about it, everyone I've ever climbed with, male or female, has vocalised at some point on a route. its part of the game, I think.

to the OP, remember, guys are pigs. young guys aren't able to hide their piggishness and well as older guys can, um, sometimes.


(This post was edited by robbovius on Dec 8, 2008, 12:24 PM)


jakedatc


Dec 8, 2008, 4:36 PM
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robbovius wrote:
release emotional energy that comes from fear and stress, as related to pushing thru a hard move or sequence of moves, on a route.

Is THAT what that is Rob? I thought you were always teaching the young children at the crag new words to ADD stress to their parents ;)

"AHHFUCKSHIFUCKDAMMITOWHOLYSHIT!!!!111" Pirate


htotsu


Dec 8, 2008, 7:28 PM
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dingus wrote:
htotsu wrote:
...

^^^^^
The guy with the folk guitar, sleeve-tied sweater draped over over his shoulders...

DMT

Though I do own a guitar and several sweaters, I am not a guy.


dingus


Dec 8, 2008, 7:31 PM
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htotsu wrote:
dingus wrote:
htotsu wrote:
...

^^^^^
The guy with the folk guitar, sleeve-tied sweater draped over over his shoulders...

DMT

Though I do own a guitar and several sweaters, I am not a guy.

BONUS!

DMT


htotsu


Dec 8, 2008, 9:19 PM
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dingus wrote:
htotsu wrote:
dingus wrote:
htotsu wrote:
...

^^^^^
The guy with the folk guitar, sleeve-tied sweater draped over over his shoulders...

DMT

Though I do own a guitar and several sweaters, I am not a guy.

BONUS!

DMT
Yeah, imagine that. Right here in The Ladies' Room. Interesting that you're here, though. Lemme put my guitar aside to point out that my original post stands, and the guy was an ass for leaving her hanging, so to speak. He owed her better, and he seems to know that.


dingus


Dec 9, 2008, 5:29 AM
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Yes I'm sure it was horrible, just horrible. He's a terrible partner, terrible.

Oh, I have daughters. They climb. I read this forum.

DMT


robbovius


Dec 9, 2008, 10:27 AM
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jakedatc wrote:
robbovius wrote:
release emotional energy that comes from fear and stress, as related to pushing thru a hard move or sequence of moves, on a route.

Is THAT what that is Rob? I thought you were always teaching the young children at the crag new words to ADD stress to their parents ;)

"AHHFUCKSHIFUCKDAMMITOWHOLYSHIT!!!!111" Pirate

I've never said that...specifically...


acacongua


Dec 10, 2008, 6:49 AM
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My question to the OP though is did you say directly to the person FIRST that you were offended by his comment or did you immediately scheme your post on RC.com? Obviously, it's way more fun and dramatic to take a simple situation and turn it into a public indictment.


clee03m


Dec 10, 2008, 8:13 AM
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I told the guys, "F you, guys" and they said, "that was sort of the idea" followed by more snickers and comments. I said some more harsh things at which time I think the comments stopped (or I got too high to hear them). To the men in my group (there were guys I didn't know at all who were the worst), I told them in no uncertain terms that I was really uncomfortable about the whole thing that same night. I am sure they won't make sexual comments regarding my noises again. I was merely venting in the LR, and I am quite over it now. In WA, I usually climb in this close quarter settings like Vantage in the winter anyways. Circle jerk sessions with herds of men are a bit harder on beautiful multiple pitch climbs :)


Partner j_ung


Dec 10, 2008, 11:35 AM
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clee03m wrote:
Circle jerk sessions with herds of men are a bit harder on beautiful multiple pitch climbs :)

This is actually a viable solution to all people-based climbing problems. Smile


rockie


Dec 11, 2008, 3:31 AM
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Amusingly I recall climbing back here in the U.K, and one time in the gym, suddenly heard a very loud woman yelling out..

F*CK!!!!

Well everything went dead silent, all looked her way, she looked our way, she was near the top of a climb.

Then everyone just burst out laughing


dingus


Dec 11, 2008, 5:49 AM
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Group ridicule is one us guy's most powerful tools to get waywaqrd members of our tribe back in line.

Apparently you ladies don't cotten to this sort of encouragement.

See this is why I occasionally read this forum.

Here's a hint though - if the subject matter lines didn't echo to the forum page I wouldn't come to this forum a-purpose very often, maybe never.

Tis the topics that draw me in and forgive me but this one was provocative.

I've learned that women (the ones I know, not yall) don't cotten to "Guy Encouragement" either - you know, where guys yell up GO FOR IT! and TRY HARDER! that sort of shit.

My daughters DO NOT like that. I try to splain to them... its hard for us guys NOT to do that. We are taught to do it from our earliest ages. We learn it in school. We learn it from our boyhood friends. We learn it through team sports.

We guys don't share our feelings of insecurity. Hell we don't really like to talk about our emotions to each other at all, unless its anger or humor.

Because we erect these walls against intimacy? Often the only way to get through to each other is by shouting or head-knocking.

So I apologize for deploying my damaged chromosomes in your forum.

But the loud grunting is ALWAYS going to draw this sort of reaction from folks, whether it is noticed or not.

Sorry, but that's the plain old truth. Grunt all you want and others will react AS THEY WISH. The more I've read this thread the more I've come to realize the reaction you got was NORMAL.

Normal.

DMT


Gmburns2000


Dec 11, 2008, 6:52 AM
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dingus wrote:
Group ridicule is one us guy's most powerful tools to get waywaqrd members of our tribe back in line.

Apparently you ladies don't cotten to this sort of encouragement.

See this is why I occasionally read this forum.

Here's a hint though - if the subject matter lines didn't echo to the forum page I wouldn't come to this forum a-purpose very often, maybe never.

Tis the topics that draw me in and forgive me but this one was provocative.

I've learned that women (the ones I know, not yall) don't cotten to "Guy Encouragement" either - you know, where guys yell up GO FOR IT! and TRY HARDER! that sort of shit.

My daughters DO NOT like that. I try to splain to them... its hard for us guys NOT to do that. We are taught to do it from our earliest ages. We learn it in school. We learn it from our boyhood friends. We learn it through team sports.

We guys don't share our feelings of insecurity. Hell we don't really like to talk about our emotions to each other at all, unless its anger or humor.

Because we erect these walls against intimacy? Often the only way to get through to each other is by shouting or head-knocking.

So I apologize for deploying my damaged chromosomes in your forum.

But the loud grunting is ALWAYS going to draw this sort of reaction from folks, whether it is noticed or not.

Sorry, but that's the plain old truth. Grunt all you want and others will react AS THEY WISH. The more I've read this thread the more I've come to realize the reaction you got was NORMAL.

Normal.

DMT

[grunt snort yell] well said [/grunt snort yell]


camhead


Dec 11, 2008, 10:20 AM
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dingus wrote:
I've learned that women (the ones I know, not yall) don't cotten to "Guy Encouragement" either - you know, where guys yell up GO FOR IT! and TRY HARDER! that sort of shit.

My daughters DO NOT like that. I try to splain to them... its hard for us guys NOT to do that. We are taught to do it from our earliest ages. We learn it in school. We learn it from our boyhood friends. We learn it through team sports.

damn, dingus, I wish I had learned this years ago. I'm still working on not using "guy encouragement" toward my wifey.


rockie


Dec 16, 2008, 8:33 AM
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camhead wrote:
dingus wrote:
I've learned that women (the ones I know, not yall) don't cotten to "Guy Encouragement" either - you know, where guys yell up GO FOR IT! and TRY HARDER! that sort of shit.

My daughters DO NOT like that. I try to splain to them... its hard for us guys NOT to do that. We are taught to do it from our earliest ages. We learn it in school. We learn it from our boyhood friends. We learn it through team sports.

damn, dingus, I wish I had learned this years ago. I'm still working on not using "guy encouragement" toward my wifey.

I've never had a problem with that sort of encouragement.

All that puts me off is a suddent explosion of yelling/ screaming noises from another climber during the time you are climbing. That is very off putting.


dingus


Dec 16, 2008, 5:40 PM
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I think a lot of folks (present company excepted of course!) nwalk around with a large chip on their shoulders just waiting for someone to utter Niaraga Falls.

Next time I hear a grunter at the crags I assure you... jokes WILL BE MADE.


DMT


dingus


Jan 3, 2009, 4:22 AM
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When I read this post:

MIPper wrote:
Joansie from Seattle:

We were climbing with you on Hidden tower (sail away 5.8) and you left a jacket at the base. Your partner kept leaning over the top to say "good job joansie," and would then disappear... it became our catch-phrase for the day!

I thought of this here thread.

I think this scenario, where one team picks up some little thing from another party, then run with it?

Be it 'good job joansie' or making fun of grunting, the impulse is the same. It is NOT rooted in gender persecution or misunderstanding.

It is just good ole human nature for us to make fun of one another. Hell monkyes do it, why can't we????

Good job joansie!

DMT


caliclimbergrl


Jan 3, 2009, 11:08 AM
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markhwebster wrote:
so, I probably shouldn't post in here since I'm not a lady, and cleo has sometimes accused me of not even being a gentleman, but I was cleo's belayer during the event in question.

She does make noise (as many of us do), and that day it was making some of us uneasy because the noises she makes while she is exerting are a little unusual. Not weird or twisted or anything, just a woman working hard and kind of squeaking, or grunting.

I personally think they are cute sounds, and have no problem with them as I am a grunter myself and have been known to do bad yodeling at anchors. But some of the others (mostly guys) standing around had not heard them before...and, guys being guys, we were all kind of looking at each other and smiling a little and trying not to say anything.

Cleo was leading a very vertical hard and sustained trad route, and doing awesome so I didn't want to distract her...but the sounds were making things a little tense on the ground.

I take full blame for starting it as I think I said, "is it just me, or does that sound like something else?" And it went downhill from there, but with no more participation from me. But at least it broke the tension and everyone busted up, at which point Cleo told us all to STFU and we all continued our day. And she did send the climb, pulling off a desperate offwidth move.

I had no idea it had hurt Cleo's feelings and I feel terrible for that. Still, thick skin can go a long way out there in the rough and tumble. I've certainly developed quite a thick hide over the years, so thick in fact that sometimes it's hard for me to be sensitive to the feelings of others, though I'm always trying.

Hope that helps Cleo, and I promise not to prowl into your ladies room again. By the way, you are climbing awesome! I can't believe how far you've come since spring. You went from never leading trad to on-sighting 10a's...amazing!

First, what an asinine thing to say! (I'm referring to the "is it just me or does that sound like someone else comment). And the fact that a woman grunting on a climb (I don't care how weird the noises are) is ridiculous! People can be so dense sometimes!

However, I think it takes a pretty cool dude to read Chris's post and then slap yourself in the forehead and take responsibility for your actions and then actually apologize. I'm glad you feel bad that you hurt her feelings. My only complaint is that I kind of feel like you're surprised that comments like that WOULD hurt her feelings. I've never met her, but she's obviously a pretty tough chick. And I'm also glad she told you guys to STFU (it wasn't clear from the OP that she did that, so kudos to her there!). But really, comments like that would bug anyone. So the apology is awesome and I'm glad you'll adjust your behavior with her in the future. But I hope you'll start treating everyone, not just her, with a little more common decency in the future.

I don't mean to give you so much shit. You really do seem like a really cool guy.


ladyscarlett


Jan 5, 2009, 11:53 AM
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
j_ung wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:
markhwebster wrote:
I take full blame for starting it as I think I said, "is it just me, or does that sound like something else?" And it went downhill from there, but with no more participation from me. But at least it broke the tension and everyone busted up, at which point Cleo told us all to STFU and we all continued our day. And she did send the climb, pulling off a desperate offwidth move.

Would you have said this if it had been a man grunting his way up? I would certainly not feel comfortable climbing with a group of guys who did this to me.

I would have. Actually, my double standard trends the opposite. When any of my male climbing partners get too vocal, I'm merciless. When female partners do it, I pretend not to notice.


Yeah, I have to agree. My sword knows no prejudice, and I've even been known to stab myself more often than not when swinging it.

Yes, I too try to overcome the double standard whenever I can, and give the guys I climb a hard time (heh) about the ALL the noises they make, though usually not while moving through a difficult section. I would definitely stop if someone asked me to. I guess my mind hasn't grown up as much as it should have. They all laugh and keep it the joke going, including the guy climbing, so I'm guessing no harm, no foul...yet.

I always thought that "sound effects" on a particular climb indicated some level of excitement! Any sounds mean I suggest that climb to friends climbing at that level. I know that I'll go for a climb that has elicited sound effects, if it's within my range, and probably even add some of my own.

Congrats to the OP for pushing your comfort zone forward. I'm not a good or experienced climber, but I say, keep doing whatever you need to do to keep up the awesome climbing!

ls


DoItGetRuined


Jan 13, 2009, 1:30 PM
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Re: [ladyscarlett] grunts and comments that follow [In reply to]
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Clearly a lot of the hidden-rage (or plain annoyance) I'm seeing in here must be due to some psychological difference between men and women. I (a 16 year old male), grunt fairly loudly on problems/routes that are at the edges of my ability, especially when I am on such routes and am then required to campus. And, contrary to the perception that I have seen asserted in here several times (by women), I, as a guy, do not do this out of any sort of need to lengthen my perceived penis. Most of the time it is involuntary, and when it is not, I do it because grunting can provide me with that critical boost needed to get to through the next move. I imagine this is why most of the women here who admit to grunting do so, as well. Which makes it seem fairly comical that you would perceive male grunting as shallower than your own. Moving past that point, I for one would not be made to feel uncomfortable if a group of chicks were watching me climb and made a few sexual comments regarding my garbled roars. If anything, I'd like it. I think many guys would feel the same way. So what you have to understand when you get all fired up over some dude commenting on your grunting, is since we LIKE these comments from the opposite sex, it can be a bit hard to condition ourselves to the fact that you DON'T. I seriously doubt discomfort is often intended. A last note... am I right in assuming that your discomfort, as opposed to happiness, stems from the fact that women are unfortunately raped with great frequency and thus sexual comments cause some level of subconscious fear or preparation for fear? (Sorry if this all sounded chauvinistic, it wasn't intended to be. Or wait, maybe it was. I'm just a stupid ape of a guy after all Crazy)


clausti


Jan 14, 2009, 10:06 AM
Post #74 of 79 (1588 views)
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Re: [DoItGetRuined] grunts and comments that follow [In reply to]
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ok maybe YOU don't, but some guys grunt/scream on, like, every problem because they think they "should" or something.

it is often quite hilarious.


DoItGetRuined


Jan 14, 2009, 10:13 AM
Post #75 of 79 (1585 views)
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Re: [clausti] grunts and comments that follow [In reply to]
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I'm sure it is. But I don't know anyone who does that.


dingus


Jan 14, 2009, 1:19 PM
Post #76 of 79 (544 views)
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Re: [DoItGetRuined] grunts and comments that follow [In reply to]
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DoItGetRuined wrote:
I (a 16 year old male), grunt fairly loudly

So'd we all kid, so'd we all.

DMT


timstich


Jan 18, 2009, 1:32 PM
Post #77 of 79 (496 views)
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Re: [dingus] grunts and comments that follow [In reply to]
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dingus wrote:
Next time I hear a grunter at the crags I assure you... jokes WILL BE MADE.


DMT

Jesus f-in' Christ, I sure HOPE SO. We did a bit of that yesterday and it added just the right amount of spice to the stew. I was the brunt of jokes and my friend's finickiness about a route I wanted to do in turn became my running joke about him. Good natured, mind you. But my partner and I roll like that.


petsfed


Jan 18, 2009, 1:53 PM
Post #78 of 79 (493 views)
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Re: [clausti] grunts and comments that follow [In reply to]
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clausti wrote:
ok maybe YOU don't, but some guys grunt/scream on, like, every problem because they think they "should" or something.

it is often quite hilarious.

'Round here, we call such men "wedges", for they are the simplest kind of tool.


caliclimbergrl


Jan 18, 2009, 8:06 PM
Post #79 of 79 (468 views)
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Re: [camhead] grunts and comments that follow [In reply to]
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camhead wrote:
dingus wrote:
I've learned that women (the ones I know, not yall) don't cotten to "Guy Encouragement" either - you know, where guys yell up GO FOR IT! and TRY HARDER! that sort of shit.

My daughters DO NOT like that. I try to splain to them... its hard for us guys NOT to do that. We are taught to do it from our earliest ages. We learn it in school. We learn it from our boyhood friends. We learn it through team sports.

I don't like that kind of encouragement either! I don't know that it's a girl thing though because some of my female partners do like it. When I'm getting scared, I'd much rather my belayer encourage me by saying something like, "It's okay, I've got you." I like to know that my belayer is watching me and paying attention and that if I do fall, they'll catch me. I HATE it when I'm feeling really insecure and my belayer (or anyone) says, "You look great! You can do it!" It makes me feel like they're not really watching or they don't know what's going on with me up there at all. When I don't feel solid, I want to know they've got me if I *don't* "have it." Maybe that is a gender thing, but I think there's too much individual variability to make generalizations based on gender.

However, I do think it's safe to say no woman like stupid sexual comments to be made while she's climbing.
damn, dingus, I wish I had learned this years ago. I'm still working on not using "guy encouragement" toward my wifey.


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