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dingus


Dec 8, 2008, 7:05 AM
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Re: [htotsu] grunts and comments that follow [In reply to]
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htotsu wrote:
markhwebster wrote:
I personally think they are cute sounds, and have no problem with them as I am a grunter myself and have been known to do bad yodeling at anchors. But some of the others (mostly guys) standing around had not heard them before...and, guys being guys, we were all kind of looking at each other and smiling a little and trying not to say anything.
...
I take full blame for starting it as I think I said, "is it just me, or does that sound like something else?" And it went downhill from there, but with no more participation from me.

Damn, man. This is so disappointing. You have no problem with the sounds and make some yourself, yet rather than point that out to the guys, you you decided to INITIATE the aforementioned conversation at the expense of YOUR CLIMBING PARTNER. Weak. Had it crossed your mind that they were waiting for you, her partner, to set the tone for how to respond to those sounds? Well, you did. And they followed suit.

To top it off, you're looking around at them and smiling, looking for their approval, rather than watching YOUR CLIMBING PARTNER (you were belaying, no?) and telling those guys, "This is just the way she climbs, and by the way, look how good she is." Or "So it sounds weird. It obviously works for her. See?"

And don't give me that "guys being guys" bullshit. That's just an excuse to justify behavior you know is stupid, and it won't fly in here. Take responsibility for your choice to sell her out to get a laugh from the guys when you could have chosen to stand up for her.

And you may have been trying to make yourself look better by pointing out that it continued "with no more participation from [you]", but it only serves to point out that you never decided to stop them and redirect the conversation. It took some guts to post here and say that you feel bad, so I won't take that away from you. But those guts would have served you better on the day in question by remembering that your priority should have been looking out for the woman at the other end of the rope, not trying to impress the guys on the ground.

^^^^^
The guy with the folk guitar, sleeve-tied sweater draped over over his shoulders...

DMT


dingus


Dec 8, 2008, 7:07 AM
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Re: [rockie] grunts and comments that follow [In reply to]
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rockie wrote:
Ignore the A.holes and grunt make noise, just don't scream that part is all that annoys me in the gyms etc, very distracting when I am climbing.

So its OK to get annoyed and distracted by screaming but grunts are off route?

Just want to be sure I have all this written down correctly....

DMT


Gmburns2000


Dec 8, 2008, 7:48 AM
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Re: [rockie] grunts and comments that follow [In reply to]
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rockie wrote:

In Martial arts, which I used to do, it was encouraged and normal to grunt etc, it helped to push yourself in some way.

It's not that it helped to push you, but more as a means of getting you to exhale when exerting yourself physically. Exhaling upon exertion is a fairly common technique in many physical pursuits. Weightlifters are supposed to exhale when pushing upward on a bench press, for example. Baseball players are meant to exhale upon swinging the bat. Exhaling relaxes the body and allows the muscles to do what you're asking them to do as opposed to allowing your lungs to take up neccessary attention while they hold your breath. Grunting or screaming are just other ways of exhaling.


robbovius


Dec 8, 2008, 12:23 PM
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Re: [rockie] grunts and comments that follow [In reply to]
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rockie wrote:
In Martial arts, which I used to do, it was encouraged and normal to grunt etc, it helped to push yourself in some way.

What greg mentions is true, but vocalising can also help release emotional energy that comes from fear and stress, as related to pushing thru a hard move or sequence of moves, on a route. my climbing partners all mention the vocalizations I make when pushing thru difficult moves. I refer to that as part of my focus mechanism.

if I think about it, everyone I've ever climbed with, male or female, has vocalised at some point on a route. its part of the game, I think.

to the OP, remember, guys are pigs. young guys aren't able to hide their piggishness and well as older guys can, um, sometimes.


(This post was edited by robbovius on Dec 8, 2008, 12:24 PM)


jakedatc


Dec 8, 2008, 4:36 PM
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Re: [robbovius] grunts and comments that follow [In reply to]
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robbovius wrote:
release emotional energy that comes from fear and stress, as related to pushing thru a hard move or sequence of moves, on a route.

Is THAT what that is Rob? I thought you were always teaching the young children at the crag new words to ADD stress to their parents ;)

"AHHFUCKSHIFUCKDAMMITOWHOLYSHIT!!!!111" Pirate


htotsu


Dec 8, 2008, 7:28 PM
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Re: [dingus] grunts and comments that follow [In reply to]
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dingus wrote:
htotsu wrote:
...

^^^^^
The guy with the folk guitar, sleeve-tied sweater draped over over his shoulders...

DMT

Though I do own a guitar and several sweaters, I am not a guy.


dingus


Dec 8, 2008, 7:31 PM
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Re: [htotsu] grunts and comments that follow [In reply to]
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htotsu wrote:
dingus wrote:
htotsu wrote:
...

^^^^^
The guy with the folk guitar, sleeve-tied sweater draped over over his shoulders...

DMT

Though I do own a guitar and several sweaters, I am not a guy.

BONUS!

DMT


htotsu


Dec 8, 2008, 9:19 PM
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Re: [dingus] grunts and comments that follow [In reply to]
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dingus wrote:
htotsu wrote:
dingus wrote:
htotsu wrote:
...

^^^^^
The guy with the folk guitar, sleeve-tied sweater draped over over his shoulders...

DMT

Though I do own a guitar and several sweaters, I am not a guy.

BONUS!

DMT
Yeah, imagine that. Right here in The Ladies' Room. Interesting that you're here, though. Lemme put my guitar aside to point out that my original post stands, and the guy was an ass for leaving her hanging, so to speak. He owed her better, and he seems to know that.


dingus


Dec 9, 2008, 5:29 AM
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Re: [htotsu] grunts and comments that follow [In reply to]
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Yes I'm sure it was horrible, just horrible. He's a terrible partner, terrible.

Oh, I have daughters. They climb. I read this forum.

DMT


robbovius


Dec 9, 2008, 10:27 AM
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Re: [jakedatc] grunts and comments that follow [In reply to]
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jakedatc wrote:
robbovius wrote:
release emotional energy that comes from fear and stress, as related to pushing thru a hard move or sequence of moves, on a route.

Is THAT what that is Rob? I thought you were always teaching the young children at the crag new words to ADD stress to their parents ;)

"AHHFUCKSHIFUCKDAMMITOWHOLYSHIT!!!!111" Pirate

I've never said that...specifically...


acacongua


Dec 10, 2008, 6:49 AM
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Re: [robbovius] grunts and comments that follow [In reply to]
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My question to the OP though is did you say directly to the person FIRST that you were offended by his comment or did you immediately scheme your post on RC.com? Obviously, it's way more fun and dramatic to take a simple situation and turn it into a public indictment.


clee03m


Dec 10, 2008, 8:13 AM
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Re: [acacongua] grunts and comments that follow [In reply to]
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I told the guys, "F you, guys" and they said, "that was sort of the idea" followed by more snickers and comments. I said some more harsh things at which time I think the comments stopped (or I got too high to hear them). To the men in my group (there were guys I didn't know at all who were the worst), I told them in no uncertain terms that I was really uncomfortable about the whole thing that same night. I am sure they won't make sexual comments regarding my noises again. I was merely venting in the LR, and I am quite over it now. In WA, I usually climb in this close quarter settings like Vantage in the winter anyways. Circle jerk sessions with herds of men are a bit harder on beautiful multiple pitch climbs :)


Partner j_ung


Dec 10, 2008, 11:35 AM
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clee03m wrote:
Circle jerk sessions with herds of men are a bit harder on beautiful multiple pitch climbs :)

This is actually a viable solution to all people-based climbing problems. Smile


rockie


Dec 11, 2008, 3:31 AM
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Re: [dingus] grunts and comments that follow [In reply to]
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Amusingly I recall climbing back here in the U.K, and one time in the gym, suddenly heard a very loud woman yelling out..

F*CK!!!!

Well everything went dead silent, all looked her way, she looked our way, she was near the top of a climb.

Then everyone just burst out laughing


dingus


Dec 11, 2008, 5:49 AM
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Re: [rockie] grunts and comments that follow [In reply to]
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Group ridicule is one us guy's most powerful tools to get waywaqrd members of our tribe back in line.

Apparently you ladies don't cotten to this sort of encouragement.

See this is why I occasionally read this forum.

Here's a hint though - if the subject matter lines didn't echo to the forum page I wouldn't come to this forum a-purpose very often, maybe never.

Tis the topics that draw me in and forgive me but this one was provocative.

I've learned that women (the ones I know, not yall) don't cotten to "Guy Encouragement" either - you know, where guys yell up GO FOR IT! and TRY HARDER! that sort of shit.

My daughters DO NOT like that. I try to splain to them... its hard for us guys NOT to do that. We are taught to do it from our earliest ages. We learn it in school. We learn it from our boyhood friends. We learn it through team sports.

We guys don't share our feelings of insecurity. Hell we don't really like to talk about our emotions to each other at all, unless its anger or humor.

Because we erect these walls against intimacy? Often the only way to get through to each other is by shouting or head-knocking.

So I apologize for deploying my damaged chromosomes in your forum.

But the loud grunting is ALWAYS going to draw this sort of reaction from folks, whether it is noticed or not.

Sorry, but that's the plain old truth. Grunt all you want and others will react AS THEY WISH. The more I've read this thread the more I've come to realize the reaction you got was NORMAL.

Normal.

DMT


Gmburns2000


Dec 11, 2008, 6:52 AM
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dingus wrote:
Group ridicule is one us guy's most powerful tools to get waywaqrd members of our tribe back in line.

Apparently you ladies don't cotten to this sort of encouragement.

See this is why I occasionally read this forum.

Here's a hint though - if the subject matter lines didn't echo to the forum page I wouldn't come to this forum a-purpose very often, maybe never.

Tis the topics that draw me in and forgive me but this one was provocative.

I've learned that women (the ones I know, not yall) don't cotten to "Guy Encouragement" either - you know, where guys yell up GO FOR IT! and TRY HARDER! that sort of shit.

My daughters DO NOT like that. I try to splain to them... its hard for us guys NOT to do that. We are taught to do it from our earliest ages. We learn it in school. We learn it from our boyhood friends. We learn it through team sports.

We guys don't share our feelings of insecurity. Hell we don't really like to talk about our emotions to each other at all, unless its anger or humor.

Because we erect these walls against intimacy? Often the only way to get through to each other is by shouting or head-knocking.

So I apologize for deploying my damaged chromosomes in your forum.

But the loud grunting is ALWAYS going to draw this sort of reaction from folks, whether it is noticed or not.

Sorry, but that's the plain old truth. Grunt all you want and others will react AS THEY WISH. The more I've read this thread the more I've come to realize the reaction you got was NORMAL.

Normal.

DMT

[grunt snort yell] well said [/grunt snort yell]


camhead


Dec 11, 2008, 10:20 AM
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dingus wrote:
I've learned that women (the ones I know, not yall) don't cotten to "Guy Encouragement" either - you know, where guys yell up GO FOR IT! and TRY HARDER! that sort of shit.

My daughters DO NOT like that. I try to splain to them... its hard for us guys NOT to do that. We are taught to do it from our earliest ages. We learn it in school. We learn it from our boyhood friends. We learn it through team sports.

damn, dingus, I wish I had learned this years ago. I'm still working on not using "guy encouragement" toward my wifey.


rockie


Dec 16, 2008, 8:33 AM
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Re: [camhead] grunts and comments that follow [In reply to]
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camhead wrote:
dingus wrote:
I've learned that women (the ones I know, not yall) don't cotten to "Guy Encouragement" either - you know, where guys yell up GO FOR IT! and TRY HARDER! that sort of shit.

My daughters DO NOT like that. I try to splain to them... its hard for us guys NOT to do that. We are taught to do it from our earliest ages. We learn it in school. We learn it from our boyhood friends. We learn it through team sports.

damn, dingus, I wish I had learned this years ago. I'm still working on not using "guy encouragement" toward my wifey.

I've never had a problem with that sort of encouragement.

All that puts me off is a suddent explosion of yelling/ screaming noises from another climber during the time you are climbing. That is very off putting.


dingus


Dec 16, 2008, 5:40 PM
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I think a lot of folks (present company excepted of course!) nwalk around with a large chip on their shoulders just waiting for someone to utter Niaraga Falls.

Next time I hear a grunter at the crags I assure you... jokes WILL BE MADE.


DMT


dingus


Jan 3, 2009, 4:22 AM
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When I read this post:

MIPper wrote:
Joansie from Seattle:

We were climbing with you on Hidden tower (sail away 5.8) and you left a jacket at the base. Your partner kept leaning over the top to say "good job joansie," and would then disappear... it became our catch-phrase for the day!

I thought of this here thread.

I think this scenario, where one team picks up some little thing from another party, then run with it?

Be it 'good job joansie' or making fun of grunting, the impulse is the same. It is NOT rooted in gender persecution or misunderstanding.

It is just good ole human nature for us to make fun of one another. Hell monkyes do it, why can't we????

Good job joansie!

DMT


caliclimbergrl


Jan 3, 2009, 11:08 AM
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Re: [markhwebster] grunts and comments that follow [In reply to]
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markhwebster wrote:
so, I probably shouldn't post in here since I'm not a lady, and cleo has sometimes accused me of not even being a gentleman, but I was cleo's belayer during the event in question.

She does make noise (as many of us do), and that day it was making some of us uneasy because the noises she makes while she is exerting are a little unusual. Not weird or twisted or anything, just a woman working hard and kind of squeaking, or grunting.

I personally think they are cute sounds, and have no problem with them as I am a grunter myself and have been known to do bad yodeling at anchors. But some of the others (mostly guys) standing around had not heard them before...and, guys being guys, we were all kind of looking at each other and smiling a little and trying not to say anything.

Cleo was leading a very vertical hard and sustained trad route, and doing awesome so I didn't want to distract her...but the sounds were making things a little tense on the ground.

I take full blame for starting it as I think I said, "is it just me, or does that sound like something else?" And it went downhill from there, but with no more participation from me. But at least it broke the tension and everyone busted up, at which point Cleo told us all to STFU and we all continued our day. And she did send the climb, pulling off a desperate offwidth move.

I had no idea it had hurt Cleo's feelings and I feel terrible for that. Still, thick skin can go a long way out there in the rough and tumble. I've certainly developed quite a thick hide over the years, so thick in fact that sometimes it's hard for me to be sensitive to the feelings of others, though I'm always trying.

Hope that helps Cleo, and I promise not to prowl into your ladies room again. By the way, you are climbing awesome! I can't believe how far you've come since spring. You went from never leading trad to on-sighting 10a's...amazing!

First, what an asinine thing to say! (I'm referring to the "is it just me or does that sound like someone else comment). And the fact that a woman grunting on a climb (I don't care how weird the noises are) is ridiculous! People can be so dense sometimes!

However, I think it takes a pretty cool dude to read Chris's post and then slap yourself in the forehead and take responsibility for your actions and then actually apologize. I'm glad you feel bad that you hurt her feelings. My only complaint is that I kind of feel like you're surprised that comments like that WOULD hurt her feelings. I've never met her, but she's obviously a pretty tough chick. And I'm also glad she told you guys to STFU (it wasn't clear from the OP that she did that, so kudos to her there!). But really, comments like that would bug anyone. So the apology is awesome and I'm glad you'll adjust your behavior with her in the future. But I hope you'll start treating everyone, not just her, with a little more common decency in the future.

I don't mean to give you so much shit. You really do seem like a really cool guy.


ladyscarlett


Jan 5, 2009, 11:53 AM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] grunts and comments that follow [In reply to]
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
j_ung wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:
markhwebster wrote:
I take full blame for starting it as I think I said, "is it just me, or does that sound like something else?" And it went downhill from there, but with no more participation from me. But at least it broke the tension and everyone busted up, at which point Cleo told us all to STFU and we all continued our day. And she did send the climb, pulling off a desperate offwidth move.

Would you have said this if it had been a man grunting his way up? I would certainly not feel comfortable climbing with a group of guys who did this to me.

I would have. Actually, my double standard trends the opposite. When any of my male climbing partners get too vocal, I'm merciless. When female partners do it, I pretend not to notice.


Yeah, I have to agree. My sword knows no prejudice, and I've even been known to stab myself more often than not when swinging it.

Yes, I too try to overcome the double standard whenever I can, and give the guys I climb a hard time (heh) about the ALL the noises they make, though usually not while moving through a difficult section. I would definitely stop if someone asked me to. I guess my mind hasn't grown up as much as it should have. They all laugh and keep it the joke going, including the guy climbing, so I'm guessing no harm, no foul...yet.

I always thought that "sound effects" on a particular climb indicated some level of excitement! Any sounds mean I suggest that climb to friends climbing at that level. I know that I'll go for a climb that has elicited sound effects, if it's within my range, and probably even add some of my own.

Congrats to the OP for pushing your comfort zone forward. I'm not a good or experienced climber, but I say, keep doing whatever you need to do to keep up the awesome climbing!

ls


DoItGetRuined


Jan 13, 2009, 1:30 PM
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Re: [ladyscarlett] grunts and comments that follow [In reply to]
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Clearly a lot of the hidden-rage (or plain annoyance) I'm seeing in here must be due to some psychological difference between men and women. I (a 16 year old male), grunt fairly loudly on problems/routes that are at the edges of my ability, especially when I am on such routes and am then required to campus. And, contrary to the perception that I have seen asserted in here several times (by women), I, as a guy, do not do this out of any sort of need to lengthen my perceived penis. Most of the time it is involuntary, and when it is not, I do it because grunting can provide me with that critical boost needed to get to through the next move. I imagine this is why most of the women here who admit to grunting do so, as well. Which makes it seem fairly comical that you would perceive male grunting as shallower than your own. Moving past that point, I for one would not be made to feel uncomfortable if a group of chicks were watching me climb and made a few sexual comments regarding my garbled roars. If anything, I'd like it. I think many guys would feel the same way. So what you have to understand when you get all fired up over some dude commenting on your grunting, is since we LIKE these comments from the opposite sex, it can be a bit hard to condition ourselves to the fact that you DON'T. I seriously doubt discomfort is often intended. A last note... am I right in assuming that your discomfort, as opposed to happiness, stems from the fact that women are unfortunately raped with great frequency and thus sexual comments cause some level of subconscious fear or preparation for fear? (Sorry if this all sounded chauvinistic, it wasn't intended to be. Or wait, maybe it was. I'm just a stupid ape of a guy after all Crazy)


clausti


Jan 14, 2009, 10:06 AM
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ok maybe YOU don't, but some guys grunt/scream on, like, every problem because they think they "should" or something.

it is often quite hilarious.


DoItGetRuined


Jan 14, 2009, 10:13 AM
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I'm sure it is. But I don't know anyone who does that.

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