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qtm
Feb 4, 2009, 7:51 PM
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happiegrrrl wrote: I dunno... Of all the women I have climbed with: - one had a grown step-daughter - one climbed until she got pregnant. At 45, she stopped climbing immediately because she wouldn't take the risk of losing the baby. She's climbed a few times since baby was born, but finds it really tough to coordinate child care, make time for herself, get partners and all that. The issue of having lost her climbing head is up there too, in making it tough to get out. - The featured mom, Jannette, is the 3rd mom climber I know. She's currently not happy because that job that made it all possible, which she talked about in the article, has unexpectedly ended. She's pretty freaked out about that. Every single other woman I have ever climbed with has never had kids, and I have climbed with a lot of women. Susan is not the type as you have painted(life's purpose as a mother/martyr). But I know, when one hasn't met a person in reality it can be easy to ascribe traits to them which may not be accurate. Happens all the time. About the fathers - Well...the story is about mothers and climbing. But a Dad climber article would be a good one! I like reading Todd's stuff over at Supertopo. In just about every post he says "I'm toast" with regards to climbing. But he's still out there at least once a week putting up new routes! He'd be a great follow up dad climber for someone to write an article an. And - never having had children, I obviously can't speak from experience. But from the moms I do know(climber or not) it is pretty much the usual thing that, when they have a child or children, those kids just DO come first. And it isn't about martyring themselves. It's more about unconditional love. True, too - I have known a lot of dads(climbers and not) who love their kids just as unconditionally, but.....they do tend to keep their hobbies up, even if at a different level. Maybe some of the fathers on rc.com, and those who are married to women who also climb(or did climb) have some input.
I'm a single Dad. I know Susan through our family climbing group, and climb regularly with Jannette and her kids. I'm pretty sure I was belaying Ariel on the Spring, and I'm behind Jannette taking pictures of Jazz climbing Fat Man from another angle.
When Susan asked for submissions, I wrote something up, but then decided not to send it. I don't know why, maybe I thought that my PoV wasn't much different from anyone else. Or maybe that my PoV was way out in left field and would just skew the results. I didn't send them, and so my son doesn't get his picture in the article...
As a single dad, dadhood did cut severely into my life as the primary caregiver. I barely got out of the house when my son was 3 to 5. However, it might not have been necessary, it might all have been self-imposed. Maybe I felt I *had* to be at home, that I wasn't being a good dad if I hired a babysitter and took a night off. Guess that's my own fault. Back then, I might have said climbing and parenthood were incompatible.
When I first started bringing my son to the cliffs, it was always *his* day. Not too hot, not too cold, not too early, not too late. Find an easy route with close holds that I can setup a toprope anchor. One that doesn't already have a TR, that isn't hogging a three-star route, that won't have parties above dropping rocks, that isn't an hour hike in. Climb for an hour or so, then off to get ice cream. I didn't have a regular partner back then so I didn't get too much climbing in myself.
Then I ran into Jannette and her kids, and that made a huge difference. With my GF, we had three adults and three kids (near the same ages) and so two adults could climb while the third belayed or simply kept an eye on the kids (who would climb a route or two then go looking for interesting rocks).
As the kids got older, climbing with them got a lot easier. They could organize and carry their own gear. They could hike much further, they could withstand colder and warmer days. They could follow harder routes so we didn't need to find climbs specifically suited for them. They could belay each other, needed much less supervision. Honestly, those climbing days were much more enjoyable and much less boring.
Still, we like to get "adult climbing days" in. Really, it's much easier to climb without kids.
I don't read the same thing into the article that everyone else seems to. But I guess since I'm not a "mom" my view on things may be a little different. Still, I wonder what Susan's views will be in six years, when her kids don't require the same constant attention, can belay each other, are a little more independent at the crag.
(This post was edited by qtm on Feb 4, 2009, 7:58 PM)
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clausti
Feb 4, 2009, 7:59 PM
Post #102 of 438
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qtm wrote: Really, it's much easier to climb without kids.
i don't think anybody ever argued about that.
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caliclimbergrl
Feb 4, 2009, 8:05 PM
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So, I saw this post when you first posted it, but I was so irritated by some of the things you wrote (not irritated at you at all, just at some of the things you pointed out from the original article) that I had to wait a while to reply. And now there is quite a discussion going. I didn't read every post, but I did skim most of the thread.
There are a few different points people have made.
1) Sexism in general -- the fact that most dad's don't put as much into raising their children (at least not into their day-to-day care) as mom's do. That when a dad takes care of his kid, he's some kind of Mr. Mom hero going above and beyond whereas if a mom does it, she's just doing what she's expected to do. I think a lot of this is true. But it's also a stereo type. It doesn't bother me *that* much because I didn't grow up in a home like that. My dad was at least as involved in our lives as my mom was -- and even when my mom stayed home for a while and my dad worked, he still changed diapers, bathed my sister and it, read to us before we went to bed, made lunches, etc. It also doesn't bother me that much because I know the home I create to my future children won't be like that. And if ignorant people want to call my future husband Mr. Mom and give him a medal for being a DAD, fine, whatever. No skin off my back really.
2) Sexism in the climbing community. The fact that there is little talk about how having kids might affect a man's climbing career, but there are whole articles in Climbing Magazine about motherhood and climbing. And people are much more critical about mountaineers mothers who die climbing than fathers. And men are more likely to solo than women. Someone (I can't remember who now) said that there aren't any predominant pro women soloers -- what about Steph Davis -- she does quite a bit of soloing!! She's not a mom though -- I do wonder what would happen to her sponsorships if she decided to have kids (which I don't think she'll ever do). But Dad soloers don't get any flack for it. This kind of thing does bother me a little. But I'm never going to solo, or do any really risky mountaineering, or be good enough to get sponsored. So, while it does bother me, it's not personal.
3) The original idea from the OP on how climbing is affected by motherhood. This is something I've thought A LOT about! Because I'm hooked on climbing. Some might even say obsessed. And I very much want to be a mother someday (and I'm 29 so that someday may not be all that far away). I'm mostly a trad climber and cracks are my favorite. I imagine I'll be doing much less multi-pitch climbing at least when I have very young children. But I always sort of imagined that I'd get out almost every weekend, bring a portable play-pen to the crag, and my (future) husband and I could belay and keep an eye on the kid while we belayed each other. Right now, I run off on climbing trips frequently. I sub-let my apartment in the summer and go up to Squamish to climb full time -- sometimes staying in the campground the whole time, sometimes renting a room. And I go climbing for a week every spring, camping and dirt-bag climbing style. That will probably change when I have kids, but I figured frequent weekend cragging trips would still work. But now, I'm in a new relationship with a guy who doesn't really climb. He's been to the gym a few times and may come on a low-key trip with me once in a while. But he's not going to be my main climbing partner they way I'd always sort of envisioned my future husband would be. And weekend family trips to the crags certainly aren't going to happen. This can be good and bad -- he can stay home with the kids when I run off to go climbing ... but I think this might actually make me climb less -- because I'm sure I'll want to spend time with my family. And then I look at some of the guys I climb with who have kids ... and they're out with me just about every weekend while their wives are home with the kids. Probably more time then I would want to spend away with my family. They don't feel guilty at all leaving their kids home with their wives ... and it's not so much that I'd feel guilty as that I just wouldn't want to spend that much time away from my (future) family. And I don't think tht's pressure from society that makes me different from the guys I climb with. I'm not even sure it's a gender thing (thought I suspect gender probably has something to do with it). It sort of bothers me that it is different for me than my climbing dad friends ... but it the end whatever choices I make will be mine.
So we'll see how things play out with me. Like I said, this relationship is new and may not last, but if it does (and even if it doesn't), I'm sure motherhood will change my climbing career. But I don't think I could ever stop climbing entirely.
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qtm
Feb 4, 2009, 10:24 PM
Post #104 of 438
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caliclimbergrl wrote: And then I look at some of the guys I climb with who have kids ... and they're out with me just about every weekend while their wives are home with the kids. Probably more time then I would want to spend away with my family. They don't feel guilty at all leaving their kids home with their wives ... and it's not so much that I'd feel guilty as that I just wouldn't want to spend that much time away from my (future) family.
Do those guys' kids climb? I feel guilty leaving my kid at home, not because I feel bad being away from him, but because, given the choice, he would probably want to be climbing with me. At least now since he still thinks I'm cool. Once he realizes I'm an old fart and slowing him down, maybe he'll think differently.
In reply to: But Dad soloers don't get any flack for it.
They don't? Maybe it's people just got tired of flogging the same dead horse? I don't know; I do know that I used to get flak for being a climber. My friends said it was irresponsible when I was the family provider, that the risks I was taking weren't justified. After a while they got tired of me ignoring them and just gave up, probably still think I'm a bad dad. Every now and then I'll meet someone who'll raise their eyebrows questioningly, but it's nothing like getting chewed out by your best friends, who probably do have your best interests in mind. Oh well.
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caliclimbergrl
Feb 4, 2009, 10:29 PM
Post #105 of 438
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qtm wrote: Do those guys' kids climb? I feel guilty leaving my kid at home, not because I feel bad being away from him, but because, given the choice, he would probably want to be climbing with me. At least now since he still thinks I'm cool. Once he realizes I'm an old fart and slowing him down, maybe he'll think differently.
No, their kids don't climb. Most of them are too young (like between 0-2). The few guys I know who have older kids who are old enough don't like it. Sad huh? Hopefully my kids will like climbing! But there will still be at least a few years when they'll be too little and I'll either need partners that are okay cragging with a baby, or someone else to stay home with them.
In reply to: They don't? Maybe it's people just got tired of flogging the same dead horse? I don't know; I do know that I used to get flak for being a climber. My friends said it was irresponsible when I was the family provider, that the risks I was taking weren't justified. After a while they got tired of me ignoring them and just gave up, probably still think I'm a bad dad. Every now and then I'll meet someone who'll raise their eyebrows questioningly, but it's nothing like getting chewed out by your best friends, who probably do have your best interests in mind. Oh well.
Well, honestly, most of my friends are climbers, so I none of them would give anyone flack for being a climber. I think I was talking more about the climbing community and the people who are somehow related to it.
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lena_chita
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Feb 4, 2009, 11:43 PM
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kostik wrote: clausti wrote: lena_chita wrote: People remember things that they find important... concluision? Daniel should climb more 5.12's on Wednesdays? When it happened, 6 y.o. Alisa was nagging me about her Dora DVD that was not working, and I was completely disoriented.
I guess after 20 years I should not be surprized by your sporadic inability to multitask. I will, however, keep in mind the comments made by others, and resist the generalization of this multitasking disability to the rest of the male population. 
kostik wrote: I called Daniel's school, aftercare, then Lena, who did not pick up the phone.
That's because it was WEDNESDAY. Remember--Lena has a meeting on Wednesday afternoon? Every Wednesday? And that is the reason for why you had to be the one to meet the kids coming home from school on Wednesday in the first place? 
By the way, I DO appreciate that you remembered that today was Wednesday, and that you remembered it before 3:30pm, and thus had time to get home in time for the school bus. Something tells me, reading this thread today provided the mental nudge.
Maybe I should start posting the schedules here, instead of making Daniel climb 5.12s on Wednesdays? Or would you prefer Baurock?
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clausti
Feb 5, 2009, 12:00 AM
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lena_chita wrote: kostik wrote: clausti wrote: lena_chita wrote: People remember things that they find important... concluision? Daniel should climb more 5.12's on Wednesdays? When it happened, 6 y.o. Alisa was nagging me about her Dora DVD that was not working, and I was completely disoriented. I guess after 20 years I should not be surprized by your sporadic inability to multitask. I will, however, keep in mind the comments made by others, and resist the generalization of this multitasking disability to the rest of the male population. kostik wrote: I called Daniel's school, aftercare, then Lena, who did not pick up the phone. That's because it was WEDNESDAY. Remember--Lena has a meeting on Wednesday afternoon? Every Wednesday? And that is the reason for why you had to be the one to meet the kids coming home from school on Wednesday in the first place? By the way, I DO appreciate that you remembered that today was Wednesday, and that you remembered it before 3:30pm, and thus had time to get home in time for the school bus. Something tells me, reading this thread today provided the mental nudge. Maybe I should start posting the schedules here, instead of making Daniel climb 5.12s on Wednesdays? Or would you prefer Baurock?
lena, can you make some god damn cupcakes already?
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lena_chita
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Feb 5, 2009, 12:14 AM
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clausti wrote: lena, can you make some god damn cupcakes already?
Sorry, I never make cupcakes. I hate them, as a matter of fact, especially the ones with frosting.
Brownies, though... those were damn good brownies, if I have to say so myself. Not even the smell remains now... But I could be persuaded to make some, if you come to visit.
Apparently they make brownies in Columbus, too:
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clausti
Feb 5, 2009, 1:00 AM
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lena_chita wrote: clausti wrote: lena, can you make some god damn cupcakes already? Sorry, I never make cupcakes. I hate them, as a matter of fact, especially the ones with frosting. Brownies, though... those were damn good brownies, if I have to say so myself. Not even the smell remains now... But I could be persuaded to make some, if you come to visit. Apparently they make brownies in Columbus, too: [image]http://www.sugardaddys.com/images/Tile_main_jan09.jpg[/image]
alright, it is on. I'll bring you brownies.
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lena_chita
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Feb 5, 2009, 1:28 AM
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clausti wrote: alright, it is on. I'll bring you brownies.
ooooh, really?! when?
And here I was just going to suggest that if you don't like brownies, we could ask kostik to make chocolate chip oatmeal cookies, his new "special"
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clausti
Feb 5, 2009, 2:08 AM
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lena_chita wrote: clausti wrote: alright, it is on. I'll bring you brownies. ooooh, really?! when? And here I was just going to suggest that if you don't like brownies, we could ask kostik to make chocolate chip oatmeal cookies, his new "special"
saturday. i mean, i like cupcakes better. but if you hate them i'm thinking it's brownies.
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cliffmama
Feb 5, 2009, 2:47 AM
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Whew, that was a lot of thread to read through. I am the "Jannette" in the article. My kids are in many of the pictures in the online version of the article. It is perhaps ironic that Susan mentions me in the article because I may contradict some of the points she makes. But she is right - I have been fortunate because I have a "system" that has worked for me so I can climb quite often.
I started climbing in college 28 years ago, my husband (who I met in college) is into the outdoors but isn't really into climbing. Before I had kids, I think work got in the way of climbing. After I had kids is when I really started climbing more than ever. I think I started seeing myself as this suburban working mother leading a mundane life and felt I needed time for myself doing something I've always loved. So when the kids were toddlers, I met another exiled Gunks climbing mother at a local gym once a week. Every Wednesday the husbands knew they had kid duty and us moms would work out at the climbing gym and go out for a beer afterwards. After I got stronger from gym climbing and my friend moved out of the area, I started climbing with a guy who worked at the gym. It was great - my husband didn't climb so he would watch the kids and I would climb. As my climbing enthusiasm grew and I was climbing most weekends, I ended up taking too much advantage of him and he started feeling dumped on. I don't blame him.
So that's when I got a system together. We had to hire a nanny because I had too much business travel and my husband worked too many crazy hours to be reliable dealing with day care. I was working 4 days a week ever since I had kids, so I had Fridays off. I made a deal with my husband that I would get to climb at the Gunks on Fridays since the kids were in school and he was working so my absence would have less impact. Weekends I would dedicate to the family. I've tried to find a balance between home, work, kids, husband and climbing. "Balance" is virtually impossible, but you can try your best to deal with the priorities and reserve some time for your own pursuits. My husband loves folk music, so I let him have time to attend jams and music camps. We both give each other some time off. It also helps that my software engineering job lets me work from home when I want and the flexible hours let me sometimes climb one day and make up the hours in the evening as needed. (By the way, I did get laid off, but in the last hour, they changed their mind and I got my job back. Yay!)
I took the kids to the Gunks every chance I could on weekends. My husband could help watch them, I could get in a little climbing. We'd hike, swim, scramble together. Then I started finding other climbers with kids. If you have a 3rd adult, one climbs, one belays and one helps with the kids. I heard too many parents lamenting that they had kids and didn't get to climb anymore. So I made it my mission to get them out climbing and started a mailing list for all the other Gunks climbers I knew who had kids so we could try to coordinate and climb together with our kids. We'd set up easy climbs for the kids, the kids would make friends, the adults would set up a bunch of top ropes and get to climb. Sometimes the kids just wanted to hang out with each other and play and didn't even bother climbing. I met some wonderful new friends and continued to "collect" new families when I saw them at the Gunks or through friends who referred them to me. Today we have over 50 families in our family climbing group and have had some big family Gunks weekends with the families camping out at a host house and climbing and hiking together. When you have other families to climb with - you have the opportunity to get out and climb, expose your kids to climbing, and have help keeping an eye on the kids. It just all fell together and I'm so glad I started doing this.
Susan (the author) is going through a really tough time right now - dealing with eldercare, childcare, and a husband who travels on business all the time. Not everyone can afford a nanny like we had. Perhaps her article reflects her current state of despair. I have been far more fortunate. I have a spouse who supports my love of climbing and allows me the freedom to pursue it. (And I don't mean "allow" as in "permission". As long as we can work out the child care and logistics, he is willing to cover). I climb for 10 days at Potrero Chico in Mexico with friends every winter for the past 7 years. I would usually do a long weekend climbing trip with my friends 2 to3 times a year, and I get 1 to 2 nights a week to workout at the indoor gym. I am so lucky that my daughters love climbing and have gotten really good at it (they toprope 5.10 at ages 11 and 14). On weekends, Daddy is outnumbered - all the ladies in the family want to go climbing. I think it's a wonderful sport for girls - helps build strength and self-esteem. No one in school ever accused a rock climber of being a wimp. Now I can start doing road trips with the girls and some of our family climbing friends. Recently we went to Rumney, New River Gorge and maybe even Yosemite this spring. I have been very lucky and I've managed to climb more often and much stronger after I had kids.
By the way, Susan did misquote me in the article. I never said "climbing mom" was an oxymoron. For me, my identity is wrapped up in the concept of a being a "climbing mom". What I think I said to her is that my nickname, "cliffmama" sounded cooler than "climbingmom". (http://cliffmama.com). I think I'm successful at both - I get to climb lots, and I have 2 great kids that I adore that I have a terrific relationship with. No regrets, I don't feel like I'm sacrificing anything (except perhaps, sleep).
So I say to you parents out there - don't give up climbing. The kids will always be a higher priority, but you have to work out a system, hopefully with a supportive spouse, to find the time to keep climbing. If the kids see it as fun family time instead of something that keeps their parent from being home with them, perhaps that will help them embrace it as well.
By the way, if you have children and would like to meet up with us at the Gunks to climb, contact me. We'd be happy to meet new families to climb with and if you're from out of town, we can even host you at our vacation home near the Gunks for the weekend. If you have a non-climbing spouse, they can come too and go hiking or biking with my husband.
Jannette
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lena_chita
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Feb 5, 2009, 3:48 AM
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Great post, Janette, very well put!
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caliclimbergrl
Feb 5, 2009, 5:33 AM
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That is so awesome!! Thank you so much for sharing that story! I really hope I can set something up like that when the time comes!!
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acacongua
Feb 5, 2009, 5:35 PM
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In my last writing class of my undergrad, the prof told us a statistic: the single most influential act to influence your kids to read is not reading to them, but letting them see you read. Let them know its importance to you.
Why? Because kids mirror their parents. If that is true for reading, it's probably true for all aspects.
So what do you want to teach your kids? That they too can be strong individuals with interests, or that they will have someone sacrifice every bit of her life to tend to them?
The balance is tricky - single or in a partnership. I admire you all for finding a system that works. I had trouble managing a dog. 
(This post was edited by acacongua on Feb 5, 2009, 5:44 PM)
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clee03m
Feb 5, 2009, 5:47 PM
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Yes, thank you so much. I especially love that your husband is not a climber, since my husband is also a non-climber. I'm planning to have kids pretty soon, and your post really helped. I love the idea of 'collecting' climbing families with kids. Thanks, again.
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caliclimbergrl
Feb 5, 2009, 7:28 PM
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clee03m wrote: Yes, thank you so much. I especially love that your husband is not a climber, since my husband is also a non-climber. I'm planning to have kids pretty soon, and your post really helped. I love the idea of 'collecting' climbing families with kids. Thanks, again.
Since I'm not married yet I'm no where near trying for kids. But I'll be happy to work around your schedule when you when you do have yours and when my time comes, we can be climbing mom's together!! :)
Of course, we've had enough trouble trying to climb together as it is and neither of us has any little ones yet so ... hmmmmmm
I think you need to move to Seattle. That would make this whole thing easier! ;)
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cloud9climber
Feb 7, 2009, 11:38 AM
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As a climber and soon to be Mother (baby is due any day now), I feel that she has some valid points but overall feel the article is pretty negative.
I often wonder what my climbing will be like once our Son is born. I know it'll change and I'm okay with it. It's a sacrifice I'm happy to make. We both really want and were really ready to start a family. I know that I won't be climbing 4 times a week like I did before getting pregnant but I'll settle for 1 day outside on a Saturday or Sunday as time and weather permits.
My Husband and I are all for safety and we'll still climb together. I found it sad that she doesn't climb with her Husband anymore. I don't have to climb 5.10+ to get my fix. A lovely day of 8's and 9's sounds great to me! Especially now since I haven't climbed in 7 months!! Safety first right? Just being active and healthy, participating in a sport with your partner, being out in nature, etc - what better example for your children? I will continue to climb with my Husband. He's the safest climber I know and plus, he's pretty cute. ;)
Just like with anything else in life that matters to you, you have to find the time to make it work. Priorities change but I think there's a way to be a great mother and wife and still climb. I hope I can find that balance.
p.s. My Husband and I would LOVE our kid to be a climber! I don't understand her confession #6 at all!!! She'd worry too much?!?!? Um, skiing can be dangerous sport as well. Hrmph. :/
(This post was edited by cloud9climber on Feb 8, 2009, 5:44 AM)
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cloud9climber
Feb 7, 2009, 11:59 AM
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camhead wrote: This is an interesting topic; I agree that there are definitely the cultural assumptions that Lena mentioned about. To add another climbing example, does anyone remember the respective deaths of Alex Lowe and Alison Hargreaves? Both died in the Himalaya in the mid-late 1990s, both had young children. However, there was a pretty harsh backlash against Hargreaves after her death for "leaving" a child without a mother, much more than any criticism of Lowe for doing leaving his kids fatherless. I would expect that this double standard would be even more pronounced if, say, a female with a 10-year old started free soloing like Michael Reardon did. I guarantee that such a hypothetical mother would be completely shunned by the entire community, she would not get the sponsorships that Reardon did, and if she was to meet Reardon's end, her ENTIRE legacy would be negative.
I totally agree with you. Free climbing Reardon/Osman style is just dumb anyway. My 2 cents.
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rockie
Feb 7, 2009, 9:01 PM
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macherry wrote: yup, what geogoddess, robb and lena said. Unless you have kids, it's all speculation. And, it's different for all parents. talk to me when you've had a kid, and let me know how it's working
Thanks Macherry, I will do that
Found a good midwife local to me at least, my first check up next week.
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rockie
Feb 7, 2009, 9:13 PM
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lena_chita wrote: rockie wrote: geogoddess wrote: rockie wrote: Can't see how baby would stop you climbing. . (snickers) please, let me know how that works out for ya. Congratulations if you are expecting; I haven't been logging on recently and wasn't aware! Thanks for the congrats. Sounds like you did a fine job with yours.. but your climbing suffered right? Congratulations if you are expecting. And as far as kids in playpens... yeah, great idea! Except if you get a child who doesn't like being in a playpen. And doesn't like a "dummy" either. Your best bet is to always have a "third" person-- one climber, one belayer/spotter, and one to look after the kid. But all in all, I actually think it is easier to go climbing with a small baby than it is with a crawler or a toddler. Gotta love the portability, the naps, and the relative 'immobility' of the babies! But they grow all too fast out of that stage and into the " I want to move around and get into EVERYTHING" stage. Very entertaining stage-- and oh, so tiring. And when they get to the stage of being too big for kiddie backpack, but still too young to hike with any significant speed for any significant duration, just the approach to the climb turns into a big deal.
"Thank you for all the Congrats everyone" 
I came to that conclusion since my last post. A 3rd person as I don't think it safe having just two of you and belayer observing you and a baby.
I agree, I felt too that it is easier to climb with a baby at baby stage as they sleep more than anything and should be settled in a crib or in a baby bouncer as we call them in the UK, or crib, that could work..
I'd only single pitch anyway.
Also, child minder when they are toddler running around age, or again, 3rd person..
As to being tired running round after kiddie, I thought it a better idea to turn that around, and when they start getting that way, it's time to take toddler out for a long fast walk (and wear them out), come on.. keep up with mummy! That's a better way 
I used to look after my friends 4 and 6 yr old at weekends, they would play her up often and first time I was a bit worried. But wow! they were angels with me, I took them to the park and played tag with them, let the girl catch me so I could catch him etc. She cried when I said we had to go back to her mum now.. said, she wanted to stay with me not go home.. I worried her Mum would not let me have them again. We are back in touch recently, shocked to hear they are now 19 and 21!
Would not climb where there are loose rocks either, Squamish tends to be pretty clean in that way.
When at the in between stage as per your last point. Definately a child minder I think. I intend to return back to work after a years maternity leave in any case. Better that way. Breast feeding will be over too.
Names I like: Karl if a boy, or Carla if a girl. Not common and can't be shortened as such. I liked the name Charlotte too but not the name being shortened to Charly.
(This post was edited by rockie on Feb 7, 2009, 9:19 PM)
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xgretax
Feb 7, 2009, 9:25 PM
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Registered: Jan 23, 2001
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ah man. i couldn't even finish the article. either because her experience completely parallels mine or is the opposite. anyhow, as a mother of a 19 month old firecracker, I know this much:
This double standard (read: sexism) is inherent in our society; even in my relationship with hubby. For example, on climbing trips, dad and firecracker get to do the most climbing. i may get one problem in for their 20. if i'm lucky. But, I will take the power back this means that once the wee one is weaned, I'm going on one phat climbing trip without either of them. heh.
after having my kid, it has been difficult to climb due to both kid and health issues. because of these things have made me rethink what matters to me in life. climbing matters a lot. so do trees. but i'm not that person anymore. but i am; those things still matter. so, i know that i'll just have to take it as it comes for a few more years. i have to continually remind myself of my friends that have older children and how well these moms are climbing now. but it didn't happen right away; it took them time too. i'm just not that patient. but i guess i'll have to be as I have no choice in the matter.
conclusion: ongoing inner conflict will become more and more resolved as the wee one ages. that's how it is, so i'll have to suck it up for a while. then i'll make the other half suck it up when it's time. in other words, things have changed, but a dynamic balance will come with time.
(This post was edited by xgretax on Feb 7, 2009, 9:37 PM)
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cloud9climber
Feb 8, 2009, 5:51 AM
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congratulations Rockie! Should be an interesting adventure we have ahead of us.
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rockie
Feb 8, 2009, 9:31 AM
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cloud9climber wrote: congratulations Rockie! Should be an interesting adventure we have ahead of us.
Heh! For sure. Thank you.
Congratulations! to you as well.
We will have to share experiences post-birth. When is yours due? Mine is due Sept 7th so a bit of a way to go yet, I have my first check up next week with the Midwife. Only get mild nausea but am fine once I eat something, am eating more often I have noticed, yet not craving anything, do you get cravings for any particular foodstuff? I don't.
(This post was edited by rockie on Feb 8, 2009, 9:37 AM)
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