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RobDude


Feb 18, 2009, 12:09 PM
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Re: [Factor2] Double up on everything except the belay loop.. [In reply to]
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I'm not sure what statement I made that was proven wrong?

My last two posts were in response to the guy who called me out for stereotyping rock climbers as 'laid back'.

Before that, some guy was pissing at me because I said, 'some famous, well-known rock climber'.

I don't see where anything I've said was proven wrong. I read an article in a magazine that said some guy died because of a problem with his belay loop. I don't see how anyone can PROVE that I did or didn't read a magazine article?


(This post was edited by RobDude on Feb 18, 2009, 12:10 PM)


Partner angry


Feb 18, 2009, 12:11 PM
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Re: [RobDude] Double up on everything except the belay loop.. [In reply to]
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RobDude wrote:
I'm not sure what statement I made that was proven wrong?

My last two posts were in response to the guy who called me out for stereotyping rock climbers as 'laid back'.

Before that, some guy was pissing at me because I said, 'some famous, well-known rock climber'.

I don't see where anything I've said was proven wrong. I read an article in a magazine that said some guy died because of a problem with his belay loop. I don't see how anyone can PROVE that I did or didn't read a magazine article?

Quit while you're behind. You'll never make it better.

The first step in not being a douchenozzle is to stop engaging in douchenozzle behavior.


RobDude


Feb 18, 2009, 12:12 PM
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Re: [Toast_in_the_Machine] Double up on everything except the belay loop.. [In reply to]
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
RobDude wrote:
I'm suggesting we move on from 7th grade writing class, that's all.

Last I checked, this forum was about Rock Climbing. If you want to go out of your way to point out trivial grammatical mistakes, typos, or whatever else floats your boat; feel free.

But you should certainly expect people to be throughly unimpressed and argumentative after it.

Beyond that, wtf are you talking about? You sound like an angry 7th grader (whoa! Wait a minute, now it's starting to make sense....).

I'm sorry if your panties are in a wad because I, *gasp*, 'stereotyped' you. I said rock climbers were laid back! OH NOES! I'M JUDGING YOU!!!!

WAAAAA!

Serious man, grow up.

I'm glad you enjoy interacting with a$$holes - but this is a 'Beginners' forum about Rock Climbing. If you think it's a good idea to jump on posters here for asinine grammatical mistakes - you're an a$$hole. And if you are going to get so upset over a newbie on a 'Beginners' forum on a public rock climbing website saying that he was under the impression that rock climbers were 'laid back' - you should probably get off the internet and have your blood pressure checked.

I'll go home and quote you the exact text of the rock climbing book I'm reading that started with an introduction about the benefits of Rock Climbing that made mention of the TYPES OF PEOPLE (OMG - YES! More Stereotypes) that enjoy rock climbing and their adventurous spirit and laid back attitudes.

Of course, if that's NOT the case, and rock climbers tend to be jackasses; well hey, you could have just said that. After all, this is a forum for beginners. You shouldn't take misconceptions so personally.

Ironically though, your angry post, coupled with the Grammar Nazi above are doing a great job of making your point.

Cheers

Lighten up Fransis.

BTW, welcome to RC.com

Ahhhh hahaha - so the response from the big crybaby is to lighten up?

Well, isn't that just the pot calling the kettle black.


RobDude


Feb 18, 2009, 12:15 PM
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Re: [angry] Double up on everything except the belay loop.. [In reply to]
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angry wrote:
RobDude wrote:
I'm not sure what statement I made that was proven wrong?

My last two posts were in response to the guy who called me out for stereotyping rock climbers as 'laid back'.

Before that, some guy was pissing at me because I said, 'some famous, well-known rock climber'.

I don't see where anything I've said was proven wrong. I read an article in a magazine that said some guy died because of a problem with his belay loop. I don't see how anyone can PROVE that I did or didn't read a magazine article?

Quit while you're behind. You'll never make it better.

The first step in not being a douchenozzle is to stop engaging in douchenozzle behavior.

Eh, I'm not much for quitting.

If you scroll back up, you'll see that I'm certainly not the instigator here. I'm just responding in kind.

If that makes me a douchenozzle, then so be it.


Partner angry


Feb 18, 2009, 12:18 PM
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Re: [RobDude] Double up on everything except the belay loop.. [In reply to]
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RobDude wrote:
angry wrote:
RobDude wrote:
I'm not sure what statement I made that was proven wrong?

My last two posts were in response to the guy who called me out for stereotyping rock climbers as 'laid back'.

Before that, some guy was pissing at me because I said, 'some famous, well-known rock climber'.

I don't see where anything I've said was proven wrong. I read an article in a magazine that said some guy died because of a problem with his belay loop. I don't see how anyone can PROVE that I did or didn't read a magazine article?

Quit while you're behind. You'll never make it better.

The first step in not being a douchenozzle is to stop engaging in douchenozzle behavior.

Eh, I'm not much for quitting.

If you scroll back up, you'll see that I'm certainly not the instigator here. I'm just responding in kind.

If that makes me a douchenozzle, then so be it.

Your illiteracy is very much the instigator.


RobDude


Feb 18, 2009, 12:22 PM
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Re: [angry] Double up on everything except the belay loop.. [In reply to]
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angry wrote:
RobDude wrote:
angry wrote:
RobDude wrote:
I'm not sure what statement I made that was proven wrong?

My last two posts were in response to the guy who called me out for stereotyping rock climbers as 'laid back'.

Before that, some guy was pissing at me because I said, 'some famous, well-known rock climber'.

I don't see where anything I've said was proven wrong. I read an article in a magazine that said some guy died because of a problem with his belay loop. I don't see how anyone can PROVE that I did or didn't read a magazine article?

Quit while you're behind. You'll never make it better.

The first step in not being a douchenozzle is to stop engaging in douchenozzle behavior.

Eh, I'm not much for quitting.

If you scroll back up, you'll see that I'm certainly not the instigator here. I'm just responding in kind.

If that makes me a douchenozzle, then so be it.

Your illiteracy is very much the instigator.

Yes, clearly.

I'm illiterate. Without a doubt.

Thank you, for your wonderfully helpful post.


Toast_in_the_Machine


Feb 18, 2009, 12:26 PM
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Re: [RobDude] Double up on everything except the belay loop.. [In reply to]
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RobDude wrote:
Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
RobDude wrote:
I'm suggesting we move on from 7th grade writing class, that's all.

Last I checked, this forum was about Rock Climbing. If you want to go out of your way to point out trivial grammatical mistakes, typos, or whatever else floats your boat; feel free.

But you should certainly expect people to be throughly unimpressed and argumentative after it.

Beyond that, wtf are you talking about? You sound like an angry 7th grader (whoa! Wait a minute, now it's starting to make sense....).

I'm sorry if your panties are in a wad because I, *gasp*, 'stereotyped' you. I said rock climbers were laid back! OH NOES! I'M JUDGING YOU!!!!

WAAAAA!

Serious man, grow up.

I'm glad you enjoy interacting with a$$holes - but this is a 'Beginners' forum about Rock Climbing. If you think it's a good idea to jump on posters here for asinine grammatical mistakes - you're an a$$hole. And if you are going to get so upset over a newbie on a 'Beginners' forum on a public rock climbing website saying that he was under the impression that rock climbers were 'laid back' - you should probably get off the internet and have your blood pressure checked.

I'll go home and quote you the exact text of the rock climbing book I'm reading that started with an introduction about the benefits of Rock Climbing that made mention of the TYPES OF PEOPLE (OMG - YES! More Stereotypes) that enjoy rock climbing and their adventurous spirit and laid back attitudes.

Of course, if that's NOT the case, and rock climbers tend to be jackasses; well hey, you could have just said that. After all, this is a forum for beginners. You shouldn't take misconceptions so personally.

Ironically though, your angry post, coupled with the Grammar Nazi above are doing a great job of making your point.

Cheers

Lighten up Fransis.

BTW, welcome to RC.com

Ahhhh hahaha - so the response from the big crybaby is to lighten up?

Well, isn't that just the pot calling the kettle black.

No it is a well known, but not famous, troll quoting a very appropriate movie. Listen to [angry].


Partner drector


Feb 18, 2009, 12:29 PM
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Re: [beardoffate] Double up on everything except the belay loop.. [In reply to]
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Maybe someone could list all of the things that are doubled or tripled in rock climbing for redundancy. Let's see, it's not the rope nor the belay loop. It's not the belay carabiner or the belay device itself. What about that first piece of protection off of the ground? Nope. How about the top piece of protection that will be holding the fall all by itself (if it holds)? Not that either. So what is:

So where does anyone get the idea that everything is redundant. It's really only anchors that are redundant. I think that anchors rely on unknown rock conditions and and are subject to more unknown circumstances than the rest of our gear. That makes redundancy important.

So other than anchors, set in rock where there could be unseen damage, sharp edges, and other unknown forces at work, nothing (see my PS) in rock climbing is redundant. I'm not sure why so many people seem to not only fixate on this but also dwell on it like it's a matter of life or death (just a little joke).

Life is full of danger at every turn. It can be lessened by adding safety features to those things that are the most likely to fail but you cannot ever make life, let alone climbing, "safe." Being anal retentive about it and demanding that extra bit of safety for things with a low danger factor, because of some stupid philosophy of "redundancy is mandatory" or "make climbing safe" is childish and shows a lot of ignorance about the actual vs. perceived danger in climbing and in most things.

Dave

P.S. I did leave off some redundant items. For instance, ascenders are usually used with a backup knot but they can be disconnected from the rope manually or by accident. Redundancy again is only used when the danger-factor goes up enough to warrant it. Not just for anything used in climbing.


RobDude


Feb 18, 2009, 12:30 PM
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Re: [Toast_in_the_Machine] Double up on everything except the belay loop.. [In reply to]
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
RobDude wrote:
Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
RobDude wrote:
I'm suggesting we move on from 7th grade writing class, that's all.

Last I checked, this forum was about Rock Climbing. If you want to go out of your way to point out trivial grammatical mistakes, typos, or whatever else floats your boat; feel free.

But you should certainly expect people to be throughly unimpressed and argumentative after it.

Beyond that, wtf are you talking about? You sound like an angry 7th grader (whoa! Wait a minute, now it's starting to make sense....).

I'm sorry if your panties are in a wad because I, *gasp*, 'stereotyped' you. I said rock climbers were laid back! OH NOES! I'M JUDGING YOU!!!!

WAAAAA!

Serious man, grow up.

I'm glad you enjoy interacting with a$$holes - but this is a 'Beginners' forum about Rock Climbing. If you think it's a good idea to jump on posters here for asinine grammatical mistakes - you're an a$$hole. And if you are going to get so upset over a newbie on a 'Beginners' forum on a public rock climbing website saying that he was under the impression that rock climbers were 'laid back' - you should probably get off the internet and have your blood pressure checked.

I'll go home and quote you the exact text of the rock climbing book I'm reading that started with an introduction about the benefits of Rock Climbing that made mention of the TYPES OF PEOPLE (OMG - YES! More Stereotypes) that enjoy rock climbing and their adventurous spirit and laid back attitudes.

Of course, if that's NOT the case, and rock climbers tend to be jackasses; well hey, you could have just said that. After all, this is a forum for beginners. You shouldn't take misconceptions so personally.

Ironically though, your angry post, coupled with the Grammar Nazi above are doing a great job of making your point.

Cheers

Lighten up Fransis.

BTW, welcome to RC.com

Ahhhh hahaha - so the response from the big crybaby is to lighten up?

Well, isn't that just the pot calling the kettle black.

No it is a well known, but not famous, troll quoting a very appropriate movie. Listen to [angry].

Quoting a movie doesn't change your cry-baby 'hurt my feelings' rant.

"Except you accused "us" of being laid back. How dare you bring your stereotypes and expect "us" to follow?

I've interacted with some of the highest quality a$$holes here, and damn happy about it.

Remember that?

You got all pissy cause I said rock climbers were laid back. Then, I went on to post a whole bunch of sources that said rock climbers were laid back?

Forgot about that already, huh?

But yeah, I need to lighten up. Because I'm the only picking e-fights on a website. HOW DARE I!!!!


hafilax


Feb 18, 2009, 12:43 PM
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Re: [RobDude] Double up on everything except the belay loop.. [In reply to]
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RobDude:




RobDude


Feb 18, 2009, 12:46 PM
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Re: [hafilax] Double up on everything except the belay loop.. [In reply to]
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hafilax wrote:
RobDude:

[image]http://www.slowleadership.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/unusual_sarcasm_notice.jpg[/image]

Yeah, and the way I show my deepest respect for someone is by beating the crap out of them and stealing their wallet.

That's just how I roll. Please don't be offended if my style of expressing myself is offensive to you.


Toast_in_the_Machine


Feb 18, 2009, 12:54 PM
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Re: [RobDude] Double up on everything except the belay loop.. [In reply to]
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RobDude wrote:
Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
RobDude wrote:
Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
RobDude wrote:
I'm suggesting we move on from 7th grade writing class, that's all.

Last I checked, this forum was about Rock Climbing. If you want to go out of your way to point out trivial grammatical mistakes, typos, or whatever else floats your boat; feel free.

But you should certainly expect people to be throughly unimpressed and argumentative after it.

Beyond that, wtf are you talking about? You sound like an angry 7th grader (whoa! Wait a minute, now it's starting to make sense....).

I'm sorry if your panties are in a wad because I, *gasp*, 'stereotyped' you. I said rock climbers were laid back! OH NOES! I'M JUDGING YOU!!!!

WAAAAA!

Serious man, grow up.

I'm glad you enjoy interacting with a$$holes - but this is a 'Beginners' forum about Rock Climbing. If you think it's a good idea to jump on posters here for asinine grammatical mistakes - you're an a$$hole. And if you are going to get so upset over a newbie on a 'Beginners' forum on a public rock climbing website saying that he was under the impression that rock climbers were 'laid back' - you should probably get off the internet and have your blood pressure checked.

I'll go home and quote you the exact text of the rock climbing book I'm reading that started with an introduction about the benefits of Rock Climbing that made mention of the TYPES OF PEOPLE (OMG - YES! More Stereotypes) that enjoy rock climbing and their adventurous spirit and laid back attitudes.

Of course, if that's NOT the case, and rock climbers tend to be jackasses; well hey, you could have just said that. After all, this is a forum for beginners. You shouldn't take misconceptions so personally.

Ironically though, your angry post, coupled with the Grammar Nazi above are doing a great job of making your point.

Cheers

Lighten up Fransis.

BTW, welcome to RC.com

Ahhhh hahaha - so the response from the big crybaby is to lighten up?

Well, isn't that just the pot calling the kettle black.

No it is a well known, but not famous, troll quoting a very appropriate movie. Listen to [angry].

Quoting a movie doesn't change your cry-baby 'hurt my feelings' rant.

"Except you accused "us" of being laid back. How dare you bring your stereotypes and expect "us" to follow?

I've interacted with some of the highest quality a$$holes here, and damn happy about it.

Remember that?

You got all pissy cause I said rock climbers were laid back. Then, I went on to post a whole bunch of sources that said rock climbers were laid back?

Forgot about that already, huh?

But yeah, I need to lighten up. Because I'm the only picking e-fights on a website. HOW DARE I!!!!

Umm, if you think someone really got upset by being called laid back, you are going to enjoy posting here.

And you don't seem that laid back, are you sure you are a real climber?


Factor2


Feb 18, 2009, 1:04 PM
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Re: [RobDude] Double up on everything except the belay loop.. [In reply to]
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Alright, I guess I shouldn't have said proven wrong. More you maid a broad, generalized statement, which you made to sound like it related to belay loops being untrustworthy, then somebody gave you the specifics and showed you they are trustworthy. Thats about the end of the story. You apparently cannot accept that you are incorrect in your broad statement and should have been more specific, and now you're ranting about something or other. I'm too lazy to read your posts about nothing, but I'll assume they're pointless

-edited to replace the word wrong with the bolded statement, don't want to hurt anybodies feelings


(This post was edited by Factor2 on Feb 18, 2009, 1:08 PM)


RobDude


Feb 18, 2009, 1:06 PM
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Re: [Toast_in_the_Machine] Double up on everything except the belay loop.. [In reply to]
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
RobDude wrote:
Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
RobDude wrote:
Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
RobDude wrote:
I'm suggesting we move on from 7th grade writing class, that's all.

Last I checked, this forum was about Rock Climbing. If you want to go out of your way to point out trivial grammatical mistakes, typos, or whatever else floats your boat; feel free.

But you should certainly expect people to be throughly unimpressed and argumentative after it.

Beyond that, wtf are you talking about? You sound like an angry 7th grader (whoa! Wait a minute, now it's starting to make sense....).

I'm sorry if your panties are in a wad because I, *gasp*, 'stereotyped' you. I said rock climbers were laid back! OH NOES! I'M JUDGING YOU!!!!

WAAAAA!

Serious man, grow up.

I'm glad you enjoy interacting with a$$holes - but this is a 'Beginners' forum about Rock Climbing. If you think it's a good idea to jump on posters here for asinine grammatical mistakes - you're an a$$hole. And if you are going to get so upset over a newbie on a 'Beginners' forum on a public rock climbing website saying that he was under the impression that rock climbers were 'laid back' - you should probably get off the internet and have your blood pressure checked.

I'll go home and quote you the exact text of the rock climbing book I'm reading that started with an introduction about the benefits of Rock Climbing that made mention of the TYPES OF PEOPLE (OMG - YES! More Stereotypes) that enjoy rock climbing and their adventurous spirit and laid back attitudes.

Of course, if that's NOT the case, and rock climbers tend to be jackasses; well hey, you could have just said that. After all, this is a forum for beginners. You shouldn't take misconceptions so personally.

Ironically though, your angry post, coupled with the Grammar Nazi above are doing a great job of making your point.

Cheers

Lighten up Fransis.

BTW, welcome to RC.com

Ahhhh hahaha - so the response from the big crybaby is to lighten up?

Well, isn't that just the pot calling the kettle black.

No it is a well known, but not famous, troll quoting a very appropriate movie. Listen to [angry].

Quoting a movie doesn't change your cry-baby 'hurt my feelings' rant.

"Except you accused "us" of being laid back. How dare you bring your stereotypes and expect "us" to follow?

I've interacted with some of the highest quality a$$holes here, and damn happy about it.

Remember that?

You got all pissy cause I said rock climbers were laid back. Then, I went on to post a whole bunch of sources that said rock climbers were laid back?

Forgot about that already, huh?

But yeah, I need to lighten up. Because I'm the only picking e-fights on a website. HOW DARE I!!!!

Umm, if you think someone really got upset by being called laid back, you are going to enjoy posting here.

And you don't seem that laid back, are you sure you are a real climber?

I'm as really as they come.

I haven't taken a shower in a three weeks, I have no job, and I smoke a lot of weed.


beardoffate


Feb 18, 2009, 1:09 PM
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Re: [drector] Double up on everything except the belay loop.. [In reply to]
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drector wrote:
Maybe someone could list all of the things that are doubled or tripled in rock climbing for redundancy. Let's see, it's not the rope nor the belay loop. It's not the belay carabiner or the belay device itself. What about that first piece of protection off of the ground? Nope. How about the top piece of protection that will be holding the fall all by itself (if it holds)? Not that either. So what is:

So where does anyone get the idea that everything is redundant. It's really only anchors that are redundant. I think that anchors rely on unknown rock conditions and and are subject to more unknown circumstances than the rest of our gear. That makes redundancy important.

So other than anchors, set in rock where there could be unseen damage, sharp edges, and other unknown forces at work, nothing (see my PS) in rock climbing is redundant. I'm not sure why so many people seem to not only fixate on this but also dwell on it like it's a matter of life or death (just a little joke).

Life is full of danger at every turn. It can be lessened by adding safety features to those things that are the most likely to fail but you cannot ever make life, let alone climbing, "safe." Being anal retentive about it and demanding that extra bit of safety for things with a low danger factor, because of some stupid philosophy of "redundancy is mandatory" or "make climbing safe" is childish and shows a lot of ignorance about the actual vs. perceived danger in climbing and in most things.

Dave

P.S. I did leave off some redundant items. For instance, ascenders are usually used with a backup knot but they can be disconnected from the rope manually or by accident. Redundancy again is only used when the danger-factor goes up enough to warrant it. Not just for anything used in climbing.

Well, the way I see it the belayer is, in effect, an anchor on the 'ground-end' of the rope. It just seemed a little odd to me that the only redundancy on that end occurs in the harness straps..depending on the harness make and model of course. The belay device itself seems an unlikely failure point, unless its one with moving parts. I know the strength of the ropes and biners themselves and don't find it prudent to use two of either for top roping.

My original inquiry was concerning the strength a belay loop possesses, perhaps I should have just asked for those numbers outright. Thanks to some of the posts in this thread I now know the load a belay loop can bear.

I don't really see how this question could possibly make some of you so heated. So, sorry for that I guess.

Thanks for the insight all the same. Cheers


hafilax


Feb 18, 2009, 1:18 PM
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Re: [beardoffate] Double up on everything except the belay loop.. [In reply to]
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Because if you would have searched before posting your question you would have read all of the above and more. Todd Skinner's accident has been thoroughly discussed and resulted in many tests of belay loop strength with wear.

Search for "Todd Skinner" or "belay loop" and you'll see what I mean.

There's a love hate relationship that exists for many this site. Some users hate talking about the same old stuff over and over but love to post. Sometimes the love to post wins but the hate comes out in the form of sarcasm. Don't take it personally. They're actually pretty tame here compared to other message boards.


Toast_in_the_Machine


Feb 18, 2009, 1:49 PM
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Re: [RobDude] Double up on everything except the belay loop.. [In reply to]
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RobDude wrote:
Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
RobDude wrote:
Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
RobDude wrote:
Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
RobDude wrote:
I'm suggesting we move on from 7th grade writing class, that's all.

Last I checked, this forum was about Rock Climbing. If you want to go out of your way to point out trivial grammatical mistakes, typos, or whatever else floats your boat; feel free.

But you should certainly expect people to be throughly unimpressed and argumentative after it.

Beyond that, wtf are you talking about? You sound like an angry 7th grader (whoa! Wait a minute, now it's starting to make sense....).

I'm sorry if your panties are in a wad because I, *gasp*, 'stereotyped' you. I said rock climbers were laid back! OH NOES! I'M JUDGING YOU!!!!

WAAAAA!

Serious man, grow up.

I'm glad you enjoy interacting with a$$holes - but this is a 'Beginners' forum about Rock Climbing. If you think it's a good idea to jump on posters here for asinine grammatical mistakes - you're an a$$hole. And if you are going to get so upset over a newbie on a 'Beginners' forum on a public rock climbing website saying that he was under the impression that rock climbers were 'laid back' - you should probably get off the internet and have your blood pressure checked.

I'll go home and quote you the exact text of the rock climbing book I'm reading that started with an introduction about the benefits of Rock Climbing that made mention of the TYPES OF PEOPLE (OMG - YES! More Stereotypes) that enjoy rock climbing and their adventurous spirit and laid back attitudes.

Of course, if that's NOT the case, and rock climbers tend to be jackasses; well hey, you could have just said that. After all, this is a forum for beginners. You shouldn't take misconceptions so personally.

Ironically though, your angry post, coupled with the Grammar Nazi above are doing a great job of making your point.

Cheers

Lighten up Fransis.

BTW, welcome to RC.com

Ahhhh hahaha - so the response from the big crybaby is to lighten up?

Well, isn't that just the pot calling the kettle black.

No it is a well known, but not famous, troll quoting a very appropriate movie. Listen to [angry].

Quoting a movie doesn't change your cry-baby 'hurt my feelings' rant.

"Except you accused "us" of being laid back. How dare you bring your stereotypes and expect "us" to follow?

I've interacted with some of the highest quality a$$holes here, and damn happy about it.

Remember that?

You got all pissy cause I said rock climbers were laid back. Then, I went on to post a whole bunch of sources that said rock climbers were laid back?

Forgot about that already, huh?

But yeah, I need to lighten up. Because I'm the only picking e-fights on a website. HOW DARE I!!!!

Umm, if you think someone really got upset by being called laid back, you are going to enjoy posting here.

And you don't seem that laid back, are you sure you are a real climber?

I'm as really as they come.

I haven't taken a shower in a three weeks, I have no job, and I smoke a lot of weed.

A real climber would have quoted their climbing level. And lied about it.


petsfed


Feb 18, 2009, 9:42 PM
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Re: [RobDude] Double up on everything except the belay loop.. [In reply to]
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RobDude wrote:
I'm not sure what statement I made that was proven wrong?

My last two posts were in response to the guy who called me out for stereotyping rock climbers as 'laid back'.

Before that, some guy was pissing at me because I said, 'some famous, well-known rock climber'.

I don't see where anything I've said was proven wrong. I read an article in a magazine that said some guy died because of a problem with his belay loop. I don't see how anyone can PROVE that I did or didn't read a magazine article?

Well, had I been on the ball when I spotted it, I would've simply bolded the "famous, well-known climber" bit and said "speaking of redundancy" and left it at that.

My real point in the post was that Todd's death was not (nor should it be misconstrued as) an indictment of belay loop technology.

I'm not trying to call you stupid, I'm just saying that this has been discussed to death elsewhere. And even the magazine articles underscore the notion that the belay loop wouldn't have failed if there weren't a bevy of uncommon things going on with Todd's harness that led to the belay loop failure.

Now, if you're gonna say that all climbers are laid back, I've a bridge I'd like to sell you. As it stands, I'm just takin' the piss. If that really gets your panties in a bunch, well then I guess some climbers really aren't that laid back.


davidhiers


Feb 23, 2009, 7:49 PM
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Re: [randyb] Double up on everything except the belay loop.. [In reply to]
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According to ANAM 2007, Skinner knew that his belay loop was badly warn, and mentioned its condition to his partner. His replacement harness was on order when he fell.

This is the only documented case of belay loop failure that I can find in the ANAM, but my shelf goes back only 5 years or so.

Some components (rope, belay loop, belay device, locker used with belay device) are sufficiently strong and secure that redundancy does not provide major gains in safety.

Gear failures do occur, but human error is a much bigger killer.


suilenroc


Feb 23, 2009, 8:54 PM
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Re: [drector] Double up on everything except the belay loop.. [In reply to]
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drector wrote:
Maybe someone could list all of the things that are doubled or tripled in rock climbing for redundancy. Let's see, it's not the rope nor the belay loop. It's not the belay carabiner or the belay device itself. What about that first piece of protection off of the ground? Nope. How about the top piece of protection that will be holding the fall all by itself (if it holds)? Not that either. So what is:

So where does anyone get the idea that everything is redundant. It's really only anchors that are redundant. I think that anchors rely on unknown rock conditions and and are subject to more unknown circumstances than the rest of our gear. That makes redundancy important.

So other than anchors, set in rock where there could be unseen damage, sharp edges, and other unknown forces at work, nothing (see my PS) in rock climbing is redundant. I'm not sure why so many people seem to not only fixate on this but also dwell on it like it's a matter of life or death (just a little joke).

Life is full of danger at every turn. It can be lessened by adding safety features to those things that are the most likely to fail but you cannot ever make life, let alone climbing, "safe." Being anal retentive about it and demanding that extra bit of safety for things with a low danger factor, because of some stupid philosophy of "redundancy is mandatory" or "make climbing safe" is childish and shows a lot of ignorance about the actual vs. perceived danger in climbing and in most things.

Dave

P.S. I did leave off some redundant items. For instance, ascenders are usually used with a backup knot but they can be disconnected from the rope manually or by accident. Redundancy again is only used when the danger-factor goes up enough to warrant it. Not just for anything used in climbing.

Best read in the thread... Smile


zeke_sf


Feb 23, 2009, 9:03 PM
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Re: [billl7] Double up on everything except the belay loop.. [In reply to]
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billl7 wrote:
On a not so funny note: A while back a new climber was told by a 'veteran' to cut off her belay loop. While not having formed her own opinion, she dutifully did and now regrets it.

Bill L

Damn, might as well go whole hog and cut the waist loop too. Too many links in the chain.


zeke_sf


Feb 23, 2009, 9:09 PM
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Re: [angry] Double up on everything except the belay loop.. [In reply to]
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angry wrote:
RobDude wrote:
I'm not sure what statement I made that was proven wrong?

My last two posts were in response to the guy who called me out for stereotyping rock climbers as 'laid back'.

Before that, some guy was pissing at me because I said, 'some famous, well-known rock climber'.

I don't see where anything I've said was proven wrong. I read an article in a magazine that said some guy died because of a problem with his belay loop. I don't see how anyone can PROVE that I did or didn't read a magazine article?

Quit while you're behind. You'll never make it better.

The first step in not being a douchenozzle is to stop engaging in douchenozzle behavior.

Yes, and he needs to turn the nozzle off by fleeing this site!

I kind of like the guy though, he's flailing all nimbly-bimbly with some mis-placed rage, a notion that he should know better and an inability to stop himself in spite of that knowledge. Yup, a brother of mine!


the_leech


Feb 23, 2009, 9:44 PM
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Re: [RobDude] Double up on everything except the belay loop.. [In reply to]
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RobDude wrote:
I'm as really as they come.

I haven't taken a shower in a three weeks, I have no job, and I smoke a lot of weed.

Oh my god.

You're dingus!


dingus


Feb 24, 2009, 5:59 AM
Post #99 of 113 (2262 views)
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Re: [the_leech] Double up on everything except the belay loop.. [In reply to]
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the_leech wrote:
RobDude wrote:
I'm as really as they come.

I haven't taken a shower in a three weeks, I have no job, and I smoke a lot of weed.

Oh my god.

You're dingus!

Now that wasn't very nice.

DMT


RobDude


Feb 24, 2009, 7:33 AM
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Re: [petsfed] Double up on everything except the belay loop.. [In reply to]
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petsfed wrote:
RobDude wrote:
I'm not sure what statement I made that was proven wrong?

My last two posts were in response to the guy who called me out for stereotyping rock climbers as 'laid back'.

Before that, some guy was pissing at me because I said, 'some famous, well-known rock climber'.

I don't see where anything I've said was proven wrong. I read an article in a magazine that said some guy died because of a problem with his belay loop. I don't see how anyone can PROVE that I did or didn't read a magazine article?

Well, had I been on the ball when I spotted it, I would've simply bolded the "famous, well-known climber" bit and said "speaking of redundancy" and left it at that.

My real point in the post was that Todd's death was not (nor should it be misconstrued as) an indictment of belay loop technology.

I'm not trying to call you stupid, I'm just saying that this has been discussed to death elsewhere. And even the magazine articles underscore the notion that the belay loop wouldn't have failed if there weren't a bevy of uncommon things going on with Todd's harness that led to the belay loop failure.

Now, if you're gonna say that all climbers are laid back, I've a bridge I'd like to sell you. As it stands, I'm just takin' the piss. If that really gets your panties in a bunch, well then I guess some climbers really aren't that laid back.

You do realize that virtually 100% of everything discussed in this forum is already covered, in depth, in other forums, right?

That's probably because this is a beginner's forum, and beginners tend to have the same common questions. How many times has the 'How are climbs rated?' question been asked?

Countless.

Your point was essentially, 'Look at me, I'm going to proof-read your post! Yay! Also, your post sucks because it's already been discussed'.

In the short time I've spent here, it seems you'll have a full-time job replying to all of the posts that fit that criteria.

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