First post on the forum--so my apologies if this has been discussed in the past...but, I couldn't find my answer after a handful of searches. So, here goes...

I'm relatively new to climbing and was wondering why harnesses only have one belay loop. It seems that everything in climbing is 'doubled up' in the name of safety. You've got your two anchors for top-roping with two biners with opposing gates, you double-back the straps on a harness, the rope goes thru two loops when climbing (on most harnesses) and so on.

Yet, for some reason, there is only one belay loop? Seems like a disconnect in the logic that I notice everywhere else. Now, I understand that you're supposed to get a new harness every now and again to ensure its strength. That alone should rule out any structural damage due to wear and tear. However, I can't help thinking to myself that the belay loop should have a safe-guard. Afterall, if that thing fails you're only holding the climber up with your arms and the friction in the biners. Doesn't seem too safe to me...even if I am severely underestimating the strength a belay loop possesses. Why isn't it commonplace to double up this potential weak link??

Thanks much for your thoughts -b

why don't you climb with two ropes, and double up your safety that way?

the reason is probably close to the same reason you only have one belay loop. one is good enough. if you want to think about it mathtematically, the difference between one in a million and one in a trillion is probably not enough to double and triple absolutely everything.

personally, I don't make my climbing systems redundant because redundancy is always the best practice, I make my climbing systems redundant when there is a reasonable chance of failure of one of the parts.

use your brain. make your own decisions.

http://www.bdel.com/...p_archive.php#102706


^^^^^
because they are strong as hell, even when you cut through half of it...

EDIT: and come to think of it, mine kinda does look doubled up. Its 2 thinner pieces of material shown together 2 pieces thick so in essence, that kinda is doubled up.

You've got your two anchors for top-roping

with two biners with opposing gates,

you double-back the straps on a harness,

the rope goes thru two loops when climbing (on most harnesses)

If your that worried, double it up with a piece of webbing.

First post on the forum--so my apologies if this has been discussed in the past...but, I couldn't find my answer after a handful of searches. So, here goes...

I'm relatively new to climbing and was wondering why harnesses only have one belay loop. It seems that everything in climbing is 'doubled up' in the name of safety. You've got your two anchors for top-roping with two biners with opposing gates, you double-back the straps on a harness, the rope goes thru two loops when climbing (on most harnesses) and so on.

Yet, for some reason, there is only one belay loop? Seems like a disconnect in the logic that I notice everywhere else. Now, I understand that you're supposed to get a new harness every now and again to ensure its strength. That alone should rule out any structural damage due to wear and tear. However, I can't help thinking to myself that the belay loop should have a safe-guard. Afterall, if that thing fails you're only holding the climber up with your arms and the friction in the biners. Doesn't seem too safe to me...even if I am severely underestimating the strength a belay loop possesses. Why isn't it commonplace to double up this potential weak link??

Thanks much for your thoughts -b

why don't you climb with two ropes, and double up your safety that way?

why don't you climb with two ropes, and double up your safety that way?

the reason is probably close to the same reason you only have one belay loop. one is good enough.

if you want to think about it mathtematically, the difference between one in a million and one in a trillion is probably not enough to double and triple absolutely everything.

use your brain. make your own decisions.

Or a locker

For more security just run your locking beaner that you are belaying with through your harness and skip the belay loop all together. I have always done it this way and feel it NEVER hurts to be too safe. Just follow the same path as your safety attachment.

Some may argue that it introduces cross loading in the biner, I'm good with personal preference. I have seen a 9+ year old belay loop pulled to failure, right around 24 kN.

binrat

Uh.... no.


A million doubled is TWO MILLION, not a trillion. A million tripled is THREE... million, not a trillion. So you're right, that's no reason.



Um...... uh.......

never mind.

DMT

For more security just run your locking beaner that you are belaying with through your harness and skip the belay loop all together. I have always done it this way and feel it NEVER hurts to be too safe. Just follow the same path as your safety attachment.

I wonder what the folks at Black Diamond or Petzl would say about your assertion that this is somehow automagically safer.

Belay loops were invented for a reason, and there's a reason there are very few commercial harnesses on the market without them anymore. A locking biner through both tie in points probably won't get you killed, but you're delusional if you think it's in any way superior from a safety stand point.

Now superior from a comfort or ergonomics or convenience standpoint, possibly - that's a tradeoff for you to decide. I'll stick to using my harness in the way it was designed.

Or a locker