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jeepnphreak
Feb 17, 2009, 4:29 PM
Post #26 of 149
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dannyd wrote: We are new to rock climbing and wanted an experienced person with us ensuring eveything is done properly, ( additional price )
Well at most you could talk to the Gym owner and get a refund, you did not get what you paid for...
dannyd wrote: On the last wall, 12-15 feet from the floor, the instructor said the rope got tangled and it slipped through his hands, thus causing me to fall direcly on my ankle.
incompentet belaying yes but its a dangerous sport...
dannyd wrote: What course of action would you guys take?
File a injury report, and maby get a refund. But other than that not much can be done for a twisted ankle. It not enough of an injury to go to court over, Plus you most likely signed a waiver that would not hold the gym liable any way.
so grow a pair, a twisted ankle is not the end of your life, it will heel up fine in a week or two.
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shoo
Feb 17, 2009, 4:31 PM
Post #27 of 149
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jeepnphreak wrote: so grow a pair, a twisted ankle is not the end of your life, it will heel up fine in a week or two.
Heh.
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shimmer
Feb 17, 2009, 4:35 PM
Post #28 of 149
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Registered: Aug 5, 2007
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dannyd wrote: the waiver states injury as a result of your doing. Not as a result of the instructors neglect.
Those waivers are pretty well laid out to protect the gym and its employees. You likely have very little recourse other than filing a complaint with the gym.
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Carnage
Feb 17, 2009, 4:37 PM
Post #29 of 149
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dannyd wrote: the waiver states injury as a result of your doing. Not as a result of the instructors neglect.
The waiver at the gym that i work at, as well as the gyms around here that i climb at all state that they are not responsible even if an injury is caused by gross negligence by the gym's employees. I am almost 100% sure your waiver said the same thing.
you have a right to be pissed, there was no reason you should have been dropped. It doesnt take a brain surgeon to belay and talk to your friends at the same time. in your situation, i think i'd talk to the manager and try to get him fired, or a refund or a free day climb or belay class or something.
edit: you fucked up my quoting with your shitty replying
(This post was edited by Carnage on Feb 17, 2009, 6:27 PM)
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camhead
Feb 17, 2009, 4:42 PM
Post #30 of 149
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first off, waivers and release forms rarely hold up in court.
second, if... ah, fuck it. Everything that dingus said is right on. thread is over. go re-read his post.
that is all.
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Hotpies
Feb 17, 2009, 4:43 PM
Post #31 of 149
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boymeetsrock wrote: shoo wrote: boymeetsrock wrote: While I can certainly understand you're frustration... Climbing is a dangerous sport and even in the controlled environment of a gym risk cannot be eliminated. I'm thinking if your really peeved, speak with the gym owner. I wouldn't be threatening but upset is fine. Perhaps they may have a kind word or a free day or two to offer. But frankly, you are trying a risky and dangerous sport. You need to accept that risk before you tie into any rope. You have got to be kidding me. This is a top-rope in a gym. There is absolutely no excuse for a gym employee to drop a climber. None. This is in no way shape or form acceptable, nor is it at all "normal." Anyone who drops a climber on top-rope isn't even close to qualified enough to be belaying anyone, anywhere, especially professionally. The first thing I would do is directly confront the owner. The second is to never climb there again. Nope, not kidding at all. He likely has little recourse here. Also, climbing IS a dangerous sport in and out of a gym. Not kidding about that either. This guy is asking if he should sue a 16 y.o. kid over a rolled ankle. Personal responsibility needs to be understood first and foremost in this sport. Sure the kid dropped him. But the OP tied into the rope. As others have said if the OP no longer trusts the gym he should no longer climb there. Otherwise, Harden the fuck up! BTW I am not arguing that there is any sort of excuse for the gym employee dropping someone, nor am I saying that being drop is acceptable or normal. As a climber if something goes wrong during a climb YOU are accountable first and foremost. Period.
The OP did not ask if he should sue a 16 y.o. kid over a rolled ankle. He asked what he should do. And just because he tied into a rope doesn't mean he gave somebody free license to be a fucktard. Backing up my figure eight and dressing the knot doesn't mean that whatever happens to me from then on is alright.
Yeah, it's a rolled ankle, and not a big deal, in this case. What about the next time the 16 y.o. "instructor" drops a client? The proper course of action is letting the gym manager know what's going on. He shouldn't just quit climbing there; he should make sure he does his best to rectify the situation for others who plan on climbing at that gym.
Just because rock climbing is dangerous doesn't mean anything goes. The day I drop someone on top rope in a gym is the day I'll have to hang up my harness for good.
This was an entirely preventable accident, so I don't think the inherent risks of rock climbing are really to blame. Driving can be dangerous too, but that doesn't make it alright for me to put on the cruise control and a blindfold and see how far I make it.
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jaablink
Feb 17, 2009, 4:44 PM
Post #32 of 149
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A gym employee who should be trained and proficient in this a basic task and is charging you monies to give you instruction and keep you safe, dropped you in an environment that was professionally designed to be safe. There are no obstacles like logs, trees, rocks, holes, …. , on the ground in the gym to trip on ? Was the little shit stoned?. You at the very least should be compensated for the monies spent that day. A lawsuit does sound a little bit much. We police ourselves generally, and we are always doing some sort of damage to our bodies, but usually its our own fault. You were dropped by a professional. Once money is accepted for a service, you are in the eyes of law viewed as a professional.
I would call the owner and ask him to refund your money and he should be more than willing to do so to keep good faith..
Also there are only 2 insurance companies that handle rock gyms. They both require all employees to have current (min.) first aid, and at least one member of staff at all times must have current CPR . Did they at least give you ice , tell you to elevate and take an anti-inflammatory until the swelling goes down?
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rockandlice
Feb 17, 2009, 4:50 PM
Post #33 of 149
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dannyd wrote: the waiver states injury as a result of your doing. Not as a result of the instructors neglect.
Christ, this is one of the things that is SEVERELY wrong with this country. Everyone wants to get all sue happy the second they think they have the slightest chance. The "instructor" kid dropping you is definitely not okay, but you trying to make a law suit over a little swelling is even more disgusting.
I really don't think this sport is for you. However, if you do choose to continue on in the sport, make damn well sure you warn every belayer you ever have that you will try to sue them if they ever drop you.
(This post was edited by rockandlice on Feb 17, 2009, 4:51 PM)
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durangoclimber
Feb 17, 2009, 5:02 PM
Post #34 of 149
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I ran a gym for years. Do us all a favor and don't go sue someone over this. It does suck, and it was totatlly irresponsible. Ask who the owner is and arrange a time to meet them. He/She should have the balls to at least meet with you and hear you out. I am sure you signed a waiver ( I won't start a debate on whether they work or not ) and you have to understand that climbing is SUPER dangerous, no matter how you slice it. Get well and don't let that be the incident that defines your view of climbing. Stick with it and get back on the horse. Just pick a better horse.
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altelis
Feb 17, 2009, 5:05 PM
Post #35 of 149
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I think camhead's post bears repeating:
1) Dingus' post(s) were right on. To the "t"- nothing much more to be said
2) All you people with faith in waivers are really kinda cute.  Waivers don't protect from gross negligence. EVEN the ones that say they do (looking at your gym Carnage). You can "waive" all the rights you want, it don't mean shit. If injury occurred from gross negligence that waiver is worthless. Thats it. End of Story. Thanks for playing.
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durangoclimber
Feb 17, 2009, 5:05 PM
Post #36 of 149
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PS: I can tell you from first hand experience that a waiver is 50/50. A waiver will never hold up if it was gross negligence. Regardless - any lawsuite hurts this industry and all of us. I am still recovering from a fall 7 months ago where I broke my heel in half. A plate and seven screws later ( plus thousands of dollars in bills ) and it never crossed my mind to be pissed at my spotter or to sue anyone. Shit happens. I am just lucky I walk with just a slight limp and that I have the chance to climb again....chicks dig scars too.
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wannabe
Feb 17, 2009, 5:07 PM
Post #37 of 149
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Too bad he wasn't a couple of years older, you could just punch him in his pie hole and call it good. 
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dannyd
Feb 17, 2009, 5:14 PM
Post #38 of 149
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If going to court forces the gym owner to hire more competent instructors, then it is worth it.
Lawyers are expensive and I am hesitant that I will be wasting my money for nothing to change.
(This post was edited by dannyd on Feb 17, 2009, 5:15 PM)
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durangoclimber
Feb 17, 2009, 5:18 PM
Post #39 of 149
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altelis wrote: I think camhead's post bears repeating: 1) Dingus' post(s) were right on. To the "t"- nothing much more to be said 2) All you people with faith in waivers are really kinda cute. Waivers don't protect from gross negligence. EVEN the ones that say they do (looking at your gym Carnage). You can "waive" all the rights you want, it don't mean shit. If injury occurred from gross negligence that waiver is worthless. Thats it. End of Story. Thanks for playing.
Amen - anyone who thinks that because of a waiver the judge/jury would say "well there's a waiver - case dismissed" is pretty ignorant to the way our wonderful legals system works.
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jermanimal
Feb 17, 2009, 5:19 PM
Post #40 of 149
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Registered: Nov 7, 2007
Posts: 200
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dannyd wrote: I booked time on the wall with an instuctor and my g/f on valentines day. We are new to rock climbing and wanted an experienced person with us ensuring eveything is done properly, ( additional price ) On the last wall, 12-15 feet from the floor, the instructor said the rope got tangled and it slipped through his hands, thus causing me to fall direcly on my ankle. What course of action would you guys take? No compensation was offered. No broken bones, just swelling and sore
What? There is no excuse for that. "Tangled rope"? WTF.
When was the last time any of you got a tangled rope and cause more rope to go through the system? Tangled rope would slow stuff down. Now if that instructor said "Oh crap I got my rope tangled, better drop everything and then untangle this thing."
You can't really sue someone for being an idiot, but you can use straight talk with the owner and ask for your money back. That conversation should lead you to the decision of wither to frequent that place again.
In the end you have to wonder if this "instructor" taught most of the people in that gym. Too bad you can't sue someone for being dumb. It probably was an accident.
I am consistently amazed at how bad some of the employees at our local gym belay. Let alone notice bad belay technique.
This one guy was completely dropping the brake hand, in addition, alternating brake hands...with hand only on belay tube only. The employee, first didn't notice, second very nice and calm said, "may I suggest something with your belaying technique..." It clearly was a "Dude! WTF are you doing" while grabbing the brake and forcing him to lower the climber ASAP situation.
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rockandlice
Feb 17, 2009, 5:20 PM
Post #41 of 149
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Registered: Dec 13, 2008
Posts: 622
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Okay, I'm done being nice. After your last comment, it is clear you are a complete jerk. Do us all a favor and NEVER climb again. You are clearly not cut out for this sport.
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angry
Feb 17, 2009, 5:28 PM
Post #42 of 149
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dannyd wrote: If going to court forces the gym owner to hire more competent instructors, then it is worth it. Lawyers are expensive and I am hesitant that I will be wasting my money for nothing to change.
Here's the thing with the great American lottery, I mean lawsuits. You have to prove damages.
So has your swollen ankle prevented you from working? How long have been in therapy to overcome the terrors of this fall? What has been your monetary loss due to this fall?
So unless you work on your feet all day and are haunted by the memory of this fall, you don't have much to go on.
Even better, you left the gym without filing the incident report. How is the judge to know that you didn't step off the curb wrong later that day?
You've got nothing. The most you can do approach the owners and hope they're reasonable. With your attitude, I'd tell you to lick my balls. I hope they're reading this thread.
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wonderwoman
Feb 17, 2009, 5:29 PM
Post #43 of 149
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Posts: 4275
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dannyd wrote: If going to court forces the gym owner to hire more competent instructors, then it is worth it.
Talking with the owner about his employee dropping you will likely have a more effective result. Please do this as soon as possible. I don't understand why you would be motivated to go to court without trying to resolve things in a sensible way. But if you don't tell the owner, how can you expect anything to be done about it?
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onarunning
Feb 17, 2009, 5:29 PM
Post #44 of 149
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Registered: Oct 14, 2007
Posts: 94
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This is hilarious.
And very, very serious.
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dingus
Feb 17, 2009, 5:33 PM
Post #46 of 149
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Registered: Dec 16, 2002
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dannyd wrote: If going to court forces the gym owner to hire more competent instructors, then it is worth it. Lawyers are expensive and I am hesitant that I will be wasting my money for nothing to change.
Ah I should have known you were just trolling.
Oh well, good luck suing for your $10 copay.
DMT
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majid_sabet
Feb 17, 2009, 5:33 PM
Post #47 of 149
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Go to Dr and get the bills and sue the motherfy*7er to his last penny and fu*k the climber’s code of ethic BS. Doing instruction is a series business and people should be responsible for what they get paid for.
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erclimb
Feb 17, 2009, 5:35 PM
Post #48 of 149
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Registered: Aug 23, 2002
Posts: 204
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waivers are mostly meaningless; you cannot be forced to give up your right to sue...the waiver simply protects the company from "accidents", which, in a sport like climbing, are not uncommon...what the kid did sounds like it would count as "negligence"; however, you weren't hurt, except maybe your pride, which you preserved by not making a scene in front of your gf
talk to the manager and ask for a free one-year membership for you and your gf...don't settle for less than your money back
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rockandlice
Feb 17, 2009, 5:43 PM
Post #49 of 149
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Posts: 622
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camhead wrote: rockandlice wrote: Okay, I'm done being nice. After your last comment, it is clear you are a complete jerk. Do us all a favor and NEVER climb again. You are clearly not cut out for this sport. It's really cute to hear your 5.9-toproping* self lecturing us about who is or isn't "cut out for this sport." You veritable fountain of wisdom, you! *taken from his profile info. I hereby predict that he will now say "I haven't updated my profile in a while! I am projecting a 12a! I is strawng!"
Hahahaha, nice, my 1-2 month old profile on here that has a couple of climbs marked at a local top roping area is what you are going by? Sweet. You've got me pegged! 
Rest assured that profile shows nothing of my climbing history. And no, I'm not going to spray a bunch of numbers. For all you know I could have been climbing when you were in diapers. Blah blah.
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camhead
Feb 17, 2009, 5:48 PM
Post #50 of 149
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rockandlice wrote: camhead wrote: rockandlice wrote: Okay, I'm done being nice. After your last comment, it is clear you are a complete jerk. Do us all a favor and NEVER climb again. You are clearly not cut out for this sport. It's really cute to hear your 5.9-toproping* self lecturing us about who is or isn't "cut out for this sport." You veritable fountain of wisdom, you! *taken from his profile info. I hereby predict that he will now say "I haven't updated my profile in a while! I am projecting a 12a! I is strawng!" Hahahaha, nice, my 1-2 month old profile on here that has a couple of climbs marked at a local top roping area is what you are going by? Sweet. You've got me pegged! Rest assured that profile shows nothing of my climbing history. And no, I'm not going to spray a bunch of numbers. For all you know I could have been climbing when you were in diapers. Blah blah.
ok, I apologize. I misjudged you, Mr. Caldwell. Sorry.
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