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GeneralZon
Feb 18, 2009, 3:17 PM
Post #101 of 149
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Registered: May 9, 2008
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Sorry to hear about your accident. Hope you are feeling better. Next time may I suggest you find a belayer that looks more like this. The chances of this guy dropping you are astronomically small.
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bozher
Feb 18, 2009, 3:18 PM
Post #102 of 149
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Registered: Mar 7, 2005
Posts: 55
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wonderwoman wrote: dannyd wrote: If going to court forces the gym owner to hire more competent instructors, then it is worth it. Talking with the owner about his employee dropping you will likely have a more effective result. Please do this as soon as possible. I don't understand why you would be motivated to go to court without trying to resolve things in a sensible way. But if you don't tell the owner, how can you expect anything to be done about it? He's not looking to protect other climbers. Its obvious his motivation is a payday. Of course his payday will come at all of our expense. Just like the majority of other lawsuits in this country.
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dingus
Feb 18, 2009, 3:21 PM
Post #103 of 149
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Registered: Dec 16, 2002
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bozher wrote: wonderwoman wrote: dannyd wrote: If going to court forces the gym owner to hire more competent instructors, then it is worth it. Talking with the owner about his employee dropping you will likely have a more effective result. Please do this as soon as possible. I don't understand why you would be motivated to go to court without trying to resolve things in a sensible way. But if you don't tell the owner, how can you expect anything to be done about it? He's not looking to protect other climbers. Its obvious his motivation is a payday. Of course his payday will come at all of our expense. Just like the majority of other lawsuits in this country. its obvious is it? I think we've all been played. DMT
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rockandlice
Feb 18, 2009, 7:11 PM
Post #104 of 149
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Registered: Dec 13, 2008
Posts: 622
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cantbuymefriends wrote: rockandlice wrote: Okay, I'm done being nice. After your last comment, it is clear you are a complete jerk. Do us all a favor and NEVER climb again. You are clearly not cut out for this sport. i'm just astonished over the high number of self-proclaimed competent climbers in this thread who seems to think that a tangled rope is a perfectly acceptable excuse for a belayer to drop a climber and that the one being dropped is the one who should get out of the sport... Huh, where exactly did I say the belayer had a good excuse? You may want to work on your reading comprehension a bit fella. My only comments were in regards to suing over a widdle boo boo and causing more issues for this industry than we need. Never did I say the belayer was in the right, or that the belayer shouldn't find another sport either. Also, I did not see anyone else make the comments you are claming in this thread either. Read much?
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angry
Feb 18, 2009, 7:19 PM
Post #105 of 149
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Registered: Jul 22, 2003
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I don't want the guy to sue. I want to be clear on this though. I think the belayer is total idiot. I also think the guy he dropped is also a moron. That kind of cancels it out. I see it as the guy who goes to the hospital and calls his lawyer over a fender bender. Yes, it's his right but it's also a total waste of resources. As far as any meaningful (IE big money) settlement, you've got to have some pretty severe pain. Those that I know who've sued successfully have permanent limps, pins, or daily pain. Often all three. I just don't see the point in a lawsuit over a booboo, even if the gym screwed up.
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rockandlice
Feb 18, 2009, 7:33 PM
Post #106 of 149
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Registered: Dec 13, 2008
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angry wrote: I want to be clear on this though. I think the belayer is total idiot. I also think the guy he dropped is also a moron. That kind of cancels it out. I concur
dingus wrote: I think we've all been played. DMT Probably
(This post was edited by rockandlice on Feb 18, 2009, 7:35 PM)
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billcoe_
Feb 18, 2009, 7:56 PM
Post #107 of 149
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Registered: Jun 30, 2002
Posts: 4694
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5 PAGES AND NO ONE HAD ASKED THE CORRECT QUESTION OR WHY IT WOULD BE THE CORRECT QUESTION TO ASK TO MOVE FORWARD? JC PEOPLE, THINK THINK THINK!!!
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graniteboy
Feb 18, 2009, 8:35 PM
Post #108 of 149
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Registered: Dec 1, 2001
Posts: 1092
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Oh, and furthermore: Please give us your home address, so we can all come over and give you a well deserved melvin. You know, where we pull yer wonder woman underoos up over your head......
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majid_sabet
Feb 18, 2009, 8:52 PM
Post #109 of 149
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Registered: Dec 13, 2002
Posts: 8390
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Here are your options after 100 replies 1- Sue 2- Kick his as* with 2x4 in the parking lot 3- Free membership for a year 4- Refund plus 1&2 5-Be a pud*y in front of your g/f and do nothing and let them repeat this to another climber 6- Other sabotage options against the $6.75 /hr n00bie belayer
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happiegrrrl
Feb 18, 2009, 9:33 PM
Post #110 of 149
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Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4660
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Trolling, trolling, trolling - Raw HIDE(as in "It just chaps my ass when I bite hook, line and sinker). I think Dingus is right.
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graniteboy
Feb 18, 2009, 11:49 PM
Post #111 of 149
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Registered: Dec 1, 2001
Posts: 1092
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Well....Obviously, He's trolling....but that shouldn't deter him from posting his home address so we can come on over and give him that Melvin.
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clews
Feb 19, 2009, 1:37 AM
Post #112 of 149
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Registered: Nov 10, 2008
Posts: 190
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d0nk3yk0n9 wrote: I work at a camp over the summer, doing quite a bit of belaying for our climbing tower. We have this one guy on staff who has made a few mistakes while belaying. Every time he does, he is reprimanded and told "Don't let us catch you belaying anyone else until you figure out how to do it properly and show us that you know how again." Essentially, we make him retake an informal belay test every time he screws up. In other words, I don't think that the kid should necessarily be fired just because he screwed up once. However, you should definitely tell the gym owner what happened, because, if it is a pattern, the kid should be fired for sure. that's exactly what i'm talking about. You guys are letting someone who obviously isn't qualified to belay, be a climbing instructor... Belaying is a very simple task, and if you can't figure that out you shouldn't be belaying. I wouldn't feel safe being belayed by someone at your gym.
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rgold
Feb 19, 2009, 1:38 AM
Post #113 of 149
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Registered: Dec 3, 2002
Posts: 1804
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Is this is still going on? The talk about lawsuits seems pretty silly to me. Can you imagine someone sitting in front of a jury claiming they tried climbing (a death-defying thrill sport to all the jurors) and got a sprained ankle. A sprained ankle! This guy is suing for a sprained ankle! And the gym owner can argue, quite plausibly from the perspective of a lay audience, that one cannot eliminate 100% of human error, the climber was essentially warned about this possibility and signed a waiver acknowledging the warning, and the gym installs padding in order to protect climbers from just these sorts of human errors. He might even argue that the heroic behavior of the belayer after the tangle happened (an act of nature) kept the plaintiff from suffering far worse injuries. My understanding is that the waiver will have legal force unless it can be shown that the gym knew this particular belayer was incompetent and did nothing about it. (In other words, the gym is immune from the charge or ordinary negligence but could be liable to the charge of gross negligence if the plaintiff can establish that, which he can't. The camp mentioned earlier would be liable to the charge of gross negligence, for example, regardless of waivers signed.) We, the climbing community, might see this incident as a clear-cut case of negligence, but it will not look like that to either laypeople in a jury or, I think, to the legal system. I don't think there is any chance of a judgement, I don't think any lawyer would take this case, I think the judge might throw it out if one did, and if it ever got to a jury, the plaintiff would be lucky to recover carfare to the courthouse. Forget about paydays. In fact, forget about the whole thing. Dannyd isn't going to sue. We've given him plenty of perfectly good advice. Time to move on...
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jmeizis
Feb 19, 2009, 3:23 AM
Post #115 of 149
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Registered: Apr 25, 2006
Posts: 635
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As a gym manager, if I saw one of my employees do that they would be fired, probably on the spot. It's a climbing gym not dancing in the damn park, if you don't know how to climb or belay you have no business working there. I would most certainly offer something in compensation for their time and injury and failing to hire good staff, probably something pretty good too, hoping that they would walk it off and not sue. That being said, while you could sue it wouldn't be that worthwhile. Your injury is minimal so it's pretty hard to recover significant damage rewards if there aren't significant damages. Probably, as was suggested earlier it would be a good idea to write the gym manager a letter and ask that they remedy the situation with the employee and at refund your money for the "instruction". If they fail to offer you any further compensation then they do a pretty poor job at customer service. As a guide/instructor both outside and inside I would personally rather die than drop someone. I could never forgive myself if I was the cause of someone getting injured or killed either professionally or personally. I can name the only three mistakes I've ever made climbing that were entirely my skills or decision making putting other people in danger. Falling on a client belay, dropping the rope while lowering someone (I caught it with my foot and other hand), rappeling off two ropes of differing lengths with one that didn't reach the ground. Of those I know two I will never do again because they scared the piss out of me and the other I don't have complete control of but I'm pretty good at not falling. Sounds like the kid doesn't take his job very seriously and his employer shouldn't seriously consider keeping him around. I'd be curious what gym. If you don't want to call them out you could always just say what city, state it was in. Shouldn't be to hard to figure out from there.
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dudemanbu
Feb 19, 2009, 3:57 AM
Post #116 of 149
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Registered: Jun 3, 2005
Posts: 941
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Trophy for the best troll of the year.
dannyd wrote: I booked time on the wall with an instuctor and my g/f on valentines day. We are new to rock climbing and wanted an experienced person with us ensuring eveything is done properly, ( additional price ) On the last wall, 12-15 feet from the floor, the instructor said the rope got tangled and it slipped through his hands, thus causing me to fall direcly on my ankle. What course of action would you guys take? No compensation was offered. No broken bones, just swelling and sore
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maculated
Feb 19, 2009, 4:58 AM
Post #117 of 149
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Registered: Dec 23, 2001
Posts: 6179
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dudemanbu wrote: Trophy for the best troll of the year. Doood. I remember the trophies.
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the_leech
Feb 19, 2009, 5:00 AM
Post #118 of 149
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Registered: Feb 8, 2007
Posts: 392
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dudemanbu wrote: Trophy for the best troll of the year. The year is still young...
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camhead
Feb 19, 2009, 2:42 PM
Post #119 of 149
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Registered: Sep 10, 2001
Posts: 20939
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maculated wrote: dudemanbu wrote: Trophy for the best troll of the year. Doood. I remember the trophies. Dooood. I remember maculated!
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Gmburns2000
Feb 19, 2009, 3:08 PM
Post #120 of 149
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Registered: Mar 6, 2007
Posts: 15266
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jmeizis wrote: As a gym manager, if I saw one of my employees do that they would be fired, probably on the spot. It's a climbing gym not dancing in the damn park, if you don't know how to climb or belay you have no business working there. I would most certainly offer something in compensation for their time and injury and failing to hire good staff, probably something pretty good too, hoping that they would walk it off and not sue. That being said, while you could sue it wouldn't be that worthwhile. Your injury is minimal so it's pretty hard to recover significant damage rewards if there aren't significant damages. Probably, as was suggested earlier it would be a good idea to write the gym manager a letter and ask that they remedy the situation with the employee and at refund your money for the "instruction". If they fail to offer you any further compensation then they do a pretty poor job at customer service. As a guide/instructor both outside and inside I would personally rather die than drop someone. I could never forgive myself if I was the cause of someone getting injured or killed either professionally or personally. I can name the only three mistakes I've ever made climbing that were entirely my skills or decision making putting other people in danger. Falling on a client belay, dropping the rope while lowering someone (I caught it with my foot and other hand), rappeling off two ropes of differing lengths with one that didn't reach the ground. Of those I know two I will never do again because they scared the piss out of me and the other I don't have complete control of but I'm pretty good at not falling. Sounds like the kid doesn't take his job very seriously and his employer shouldn't seriously consider keeping him around. I'd be curious what gym. If you don't want to call them out you could always just say what city, state it was in. Shouldn't be to hard to figure out from there. Not your fault. You weren't the one looking up at the bolts while rapping. I could've avoided the whole the situation by paying attention. Sorry for the thread drift.
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Feb 19, 2009, 4:03 PM
Post #121 of 149
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Registered: Sep 12, 2008
Posts: 5208
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sdonis wrote: dannyd wrote: I booked time on the wall with an instuctor and my g/f on valentines day. We are new to rock climbing and wanted an experienced person with us ensuring eveything is done properly, ( additional price ) On the last wall, 12-15 feet from the floor, the instructor said the rope got tangled and it slipped through his hands, thus causing me to fall direcly on my ankle. What course of action would you guys take? No compensation was offered. No broken bones, just swelling and sore So you joined RC.com just to whine about a sprang ankle? Do you know how many climbers on here have had freak accidents, had broken bones, died from climbing? The ones that haven't passed on, get back on rock and don't sue, bitch or complain. My advice to you Sir is to not post anything that insults a way of life!!!!!!!!!! I'm guessing not many have died. But this being the internet, who knows.
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dingus
Feb 19, 2009, 4:09 PM
Post #122 of 149
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Registered: Dec 16, 2002
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: sdonis wrote: dannyd wrote: I booked time on the wall with an instuctor and my g/f on valentines day. We are new to rock climbing and wanted an experienced person with us ensuring eveything is done properly, ( additional price ) On the last wall, 12-15 feet from the floor, the instructor said the rope got tangled and it slipped through his hands, thus causing me to fall direcly on my ankle. What course of action would you guys take? No compensation was offered. No broken bones, just swelling and sore So you joined RC.com just to whine about a sprang ankle? Do you know how many climbers on here have had freak accidents, had broken bones, died from climbing? The ones that haven't passed on, get back on rock and don't sue, bitch or complain. My advice to you Sir is to not post anything that insults a way of life!!!!!!!!!! I'm guessing not many have died. But this being the internet, who knows. This is the makings of another classic rc.com poll! Have you had (while climbing) A. Freak Accidents? B. Broken bones? C. Died from climbing? D. A and B E. A and C F. B and C G. All of the above (and then some) DMT
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wonderwoman
Feb 19, 2009, 4:18 PM
Post #123 of 149
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Registered: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: 4275
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dingus wrote: A. Freak Accidents? B. Broken bones? C. Died from climbing? D. A and B E. A and C F. B and C G. All of the above (and then some) I'm taking the GRE on Monday. I'm hoping that most of the multiple choice questions look similar to this.
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jmvc
Feb 19, 2009, 4:58 PM
Post #124 of 149
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Registered: Sep 10, 2007
Posts: 647
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clausti wrote: tomcat wrote: You may find this remarkable,but scores of climbers learned to climb and belay without injury,just by watching or reading a book or two,back when a book or two was all there were. well a toprope belay is surely not rocket science. but you DO have to be paying attention. Do you? I thought yanking in some rope every now and then works.. Unless your climber is really touchy about not falling even five feet if they peel off..
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wanderlustmd
Feb 19, 2009, 5:13 PM
Post #125 of 149
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Registered: Oct 24, 2006
Posts: 8150
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boymeetsrock wrote: dannyd wrote: I booked time on the wall with an instuctor and my g/f on valentines day. We are new to rock climbing and wanted an experienced person with us ensuring eveything is done properly, ( additional price ) On the last wall, 12-15 feet from the floor, the instructor said the rope got tangled and it slipped through his hands, thus causing me to fall direcly on my ankle. What course of action would you guys take? No compensation was offered. No broken bones, just swelling and sore While I can certainly understand you're frustration... Climbing is a dangerous sport and even in the controlled environment of a gym risk cannot be eliminated. I'm thinking if your really peeved, speak with the gym owner. I wouldn't be threatening but upset is fine. Perhaps they may have a kind word or a free day or two to offer. But frankly, you are trying a risky and dangerous sport. You need to accept that risk before you tie into any rope. You need to learn the first thing about climbing. Yeah it's dangerous, but under the context it sounds more like some idiot instructor.
(This post was edited by wanderlustmd on Feb 19, 2009, 5:14 PM)
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