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ego and climbing shouldn't mix
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chadnsc


Feb 27, 2009, 6:50 AM
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Re: [clee03m] ego and climbing shouldn't mix [In reply to]
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Climb at a level that makes you happy. If you can't hard enough to be happy theny maybe you shouldn't be climbing.


desertwanderer81


Feb 27, 2009, 7:20 AM
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Re: [clausti] ego and climbing shouldn't mix [In reply to]
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clausti wrote:
the biggest hit to my ego gym climbing is when routes are rated medium and I can't finish them at all because the holds are so far away it simply isn't doable.

by "doable," i mean: the absolute limit of my reach is 6 feet and 10 inches. that is from my toes to my first pad, as far as I can possibly reach. (I'm 5'2".) I frequently use every inch of this to climb gym routes, and the setters just as frequently set holds 7' apart for moves that require static balance. doesn't mean jack shit if i can stand up in control and lay my body against the wall if the hold is still 3-6 inches (or more) away. also, armspan has a limit, too, right? so sometimes they set "monkey bar" bouldering problems that are impossible too.

then a gumby will climb it, and i get really mad. it's not fair!!!

I hesitate to say this, but why worry about a gym? In my opinion, the singular purpose of a gym is to become a stronger climber for real climbing. So climb whatever there is there, become stronger physically and in technique, and wait for the real climbing!

So really who cares if there is a hold that's too high for you or if some newbie kid who has never been on real rock says something that is entirely wrong?

Set the kid straight and pray for warmer weather for real climbing!


clausti


Feb 27, 2009, 11:19 AM
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Re: [desertwanderer81] ego and climbing shouldn't mix [In reply to]
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desertwanderer81 wrote:
I hesitate to say this, but why worry about a gym? In my opinion, the singular purpose of a gym is to become a stronger climber for real climbing. So climb whatever there is there, become stronger physically and in technique, and wait for the real climbing!

the problem arises because, as you say, the gym is for training. i usually redpoint a couple new .12a's a season, outside. so i want to train at a reasonable level, inside. but when all the routes harder then .11a at the gym have ridiculous reaches in them that make it impossible for me to do the route, my training is severely hampered. and sometimes it's every route harder than .10a. (the routes aren't graded as such in the gym but those are rough approximations).

and sometimes the routes are better or worse then others, but all the routesetters at the gym are male and, not to put to fine a point on it- they're all tall, 5'10-6'4. the tallest one listens to me most. and because it's a college gym, they're sticklers for their rules. and the rules say that only people who are on the payroll can self-belay with the gri gri to set routes (insurance reasons). and also because its a college gym, there are rules about who can be on the payroll. and one of the people that can't be on the payroll is graduate students who are funded, because they're already on a different university payroll, which excludes me as a setter.


(This post was edited by clausti on Feb 27, 2009, 11:20 AM)


desertwanderer81


Feb 27, 2009, 1:19 PM
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Re: [clausti] ego and climbing shouldn't mix [In reply to]
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At the gym I'm at now, they specifically set routes so that 8-9 year old kids have no problems doing them but are still 11's and 12's and 13's. It's a great non-elitist family oriented gym whose staff actually climbs which is nice.

Ha, I guess it helps having the manager be a 5'5" woman with an 8 y/o of her own though ;) (who I should add climbs on all of her days off outdoors)

Anyhow, I guess that place seams to be the exception though. I've never found a place that I actually like before this one.


ladyscarlett


Feb 27, 2009, 1:32 PM
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Re: [clausti] ego and climbing shouldn't mix [In reply to]
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clausti wrote:
mhix13 wrote:
clausti wrote:
sorry, but no, i don't think anybody gets to bitch about moves being "scrunched up." it's called get some decent technique.

sometimes it may not be an issue of technique, as it is being able to fold your body into suit-case sized proportions. not saying technique doesn't have it's place but I can think of a local boulder sit start that anyone taller than about 5'5'' or of thicker frame would peal off of cause they couldn't fold their body up to get on it. Tongue

and like i said, it's called learn to be flexible. unlike reaches, where is is feasible to have a move where someone who has a total reach of 6'11 can reach it and someone with a total reach of 6'10 cannot, a sit start does not immediately jump a threshold in difficulty when your height becomes 5'6. sorry. short people have to scrunch themselves up all the time to do moves. average height people have to scrunch themselves up all the time to do moves. if you never have to scrunch yourself up to do a move, you probably don't climb very hard or you'r probably very tall, or both. either way, this hypothetical you who never has to do any scrunchy moves is going to be a very limited climber.

and, for the record, my bitches about reachy-ness are specifically directed at gym climbing. outside, the rock is the rock, but the rock wasn't set by someone with a sequence in mind placing only the feet that they needed, and the rock allows for a great deal more creativity.

I'm nowhere near your level, but I understand the frustration of 'reachy' gym routes. On bad days I hate the routes have that ONE move that is so out of reach I would have to do some hardcore craziness way beyond me. On good days, I find creative ways past it, totally pump myself, trash my body, and conquer. Or give up and laugh - cause it's just the gym. But it's still frustrating to come to terms with the fact that it's just a matter of reach. In my opinion, a mark of thoughtless route setting.

Luckily my gym there's routesetters of various sizes, and most are good about having SOME way up, even if it means lots of creativity (or pain). In fact, the other day, someone was bitching about reachiness, coming down on the (assumed taller) setter for making it impossible for anyone shorter. I told the climber that the setter (who I met) was actually shorter than they were, so technically, it's possible, it just might be painfully hard. The climber gave me an evil look, and I just smiled and batted my lashes, wished him good luck and walked away, hee hee.

I will say this - somehow I love seeing the really tall ones scrunch up real small, it seems so much more impressive than when I'm splayed out at my full extension...

to the good setters to hold us over until we can go outside!

ls


Gmburns2000


Mar 2, 2009, 8:18 AM
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Re: [clausti] ego and climbing shouldn't mix [In reply to]
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clausti wrote:
desertwanderer81 wrote:
I hesitate to say this, but why worry about a gym? In my opinion, the singular purpose of a gym is to become a stronger climber for real climbing. So climb whatever there is there, become stronger physically and in technique, and wait for the real climbing!

the problem arises because, as you say, the gym is for training. i usually redpoint a couple new .12a's a season, outside. so i want to train at a reasonable level, inside. but when all the routes harder then .11a at the gym have ridiculous reaches in them that make it impossible for me to do the route, my training is severely hampered. and sometimes it's every route harder than .10a. (the routes aren't graded as such in the gym but those are rough approximations).

and sometimes the routes are better or worse then others, but all the routesetters at the gym are male and, not to put to fine a point on it- they're all tall, 5'10-6'4. the tallest one listens to me most. and because it's a college gym, they're sticklers for their rules. and the rules say that only people who are on the payroll can self-belay with the gri gri to set routes (insurance reasons). and also because its a college gym, there are rules about who can be on the payroll. and one of the people that can't be on the payroll is graduate students who are funded, because they're already on a different university payroll, which excludes me as a setter.

Tell them to set the routes with their elbows; if they can touch the next hold with their elbow then that is probably a decent distance from one hold to the next.


clausti


Mar 2, 2009, 9:46 AM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] ego and climbing shouldn't mix [In reply to]
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
clausti wrote:
desertwanderer81 wrote:
I hesitate to say this, but why worry about a gym? In my opinion, the singular purpose of a gym is to become a stronger climber for real climbing. So climb whatever there is there, become stronger physically and in technique, and wait for the real climbing!

the problem arises because, as you say, the gym is for training. i usually redpoint a couple new .12a's a season, outside. so i want to train at a reasonable level, inside. but when all the routes harder then .11a at the gym have ridiculous reaches in them that make it impossible for me to do the route, my training is severely hampered. and sometimes it's every route harder than .10a. (the routes aren't graded as such in the gym but those are rough approximations).

and sometimes the routes are better or worse then others, but all the routesetters at the gym are male and, not to put to fine a point on it- they're all tall, 5'10-6'4. the tallest one listens to me most. and because it's a college gym, they're sticklers for their rules. and the rules say that only people who are on the payroll can self-belay with the gri gri to set routes (insurance reasons). and also because its a college gym, there are rules about who can be on the payroll. and one of the people that can't be on the payroll is graduate students who are funded, because they're already on a different university payroll, which excludes me as a setter.

Tell them to set the routes with their elbows; if they can touch the next hold with their elbow then that is probably a decent distance from one hold to the next.

oh i have. in addition to many other things. Angelic


petsfed


Mar 2, 2009, 10:31 AM
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Re: [clausti] ego and climbing shouldn't mix [In reply to]
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clausti wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
clausti wrote:
desertwanderer81 wrote:
I hesitate to say this, but why worry about a gym? In my opinion, the singular purpose of a gym is to become a stronger climber for real climbing. So climb whatever there is there, become stronger physically and in technique, and wait for the real climbing!

the problem arises because, as you say, the gym is for training. i usually redpoint a couple new .12a's a season, outside. so i want to train at a reasonable level, inside. but when all the routes harder then .11a at the gym have ridiculous reaches in them that make it impossible for me to do the route, my training is severely hampered. and sometimes it's every route harder than .10a. (the routes aren't graded as such in the gym but those are rough approximations).

and sometimes the routes are better or worse then others, but all the routesetters at the gym are male and, not to put to fine a point on it- they're all tall, 5'10-6'4. the tallest one listens to me most. and because it's a college gym, they're sticklers for their rules. and the rules say that only people who are on the payroll can self-belay with the gri gri to set routes (insurance reasons). and also because its a college gym, there are rules about who can be on the payroll. and one of the people that can't be on the payroll is graduate students who are funded, because they're already on a different university payroll, which excludes me as a setter.

Tell them to set the routes with their elbows; if they can touch the next hold with their elbow then that is probably a decent distance from one hold to the next.

oh i have. in addition to many other things. Angelic

I only bitch about the super scrunched up routes at the wall I work at because the guy who set them is 4 inches taller than me. That's demoralizing right there.

I set a problem, ostensibly for a competition last friday, that was nixed because one move was simply too far to be fun. Not impossible, just not fun. I hadn't recognized this because I didn't call in our shortest setter (who is about 5'3") to test the move.

Its a shitty deal to have a bunch of setters who don't really care to set for their customers.

And I'd bet, dollars to donuts, that most of the setters at clausti's gym are blowing her off as some bitchy n00b, because the vast majority of the complaints about "too reachy" come from complete neophytes. Which is a terrible reason to discount criticism.


clausti


Mar 2, 2009, 10:44 AM
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Re: [petsfed] ego and climbing shouldn't mix [In reply to]
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petsfed wrote:
And I'd bet, dollars to donuts, that most of the setters at clausti's gym are blowing her off as some bitchy n00b, because the vast majority of the complaints about "too reachy" come from complete neophytes. Which is a terrible reason to discount criticism.

that, at least, is not true for most of the setters in my specific case. all of the setters know me now and know the level i climb at. they've seen me be like "oh this reachy move? oh that bolt hole? oh that hand i mean foot-hold." occasionally a new one comes aboard.

but they are college boys, so they forget. they get caught up (in the heat of the moment??) until i fuss at them again. which is why the reachiness of the routes tends to be cyclical. they set retarded routes, i bitch. they set less retarded routes, i quit bitching. in the absence of reminders, they set retarded routes again.


(This post was edited by clausti on Mar 2, 2009, 10:46 AM)


dingus


Mar 6, 2009, 6:58 AM
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Re: [clee03m] ego and climbing shouldn't mix [In reply to]
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clee03m wrote:
I realize that ego and climbing should not mix. Yes, I am suppose to climb for myself and not care what anyone thinks. But my ego has had a hard few weeks. *sigh*

Cleeum, let me tell you a funny story to further illustrate your point:

I moved to CA in 1986. I was a climber then, for 13 years already, though at a bumbling country boy level. I'd only done a handful of multipitch routes by then, believe it or not (not alot of that where I grew up in TN).

So I just showed up one evening at Lover's Leap, pitched out and ended up hooking in with some Santa Cruz climbers.

Twas this dude and his girlfriend. He was a much better climber than me.

So he basically led me and his girlfriend up a couple of routes and we topped out on Corrugation Corner.

I was in the middle, climbing the crux pitch on Corrugation. Climbing 2nd in a 3-person team meant for some pro I needed to unclip my top rope and reclip the lower rope leading to his girlfriend

OK so I unclipped a fixed pin and reclipped the lower rope. I didn't notice the ropes were crossed. As I climbed up my top rope was under the 2nd rope. THis would never do.

I reached down to fix it and slipped unexpectedly. In a heart beat I was off.

The dude simply couldn't believe I'd fallen.

"Did he just FALL???" He asked, incredulous.

"YES HE DID!" responded his girlfriend.

I was humiliated.

Later that evening, in their camp, the crew was discussing the goals for Sunday. Hard dude maie it clear he had no interest whatsoever in further climbing time with me.

His girlfriend turns to me and says - 'none of these guys want to climb with me. I'm not climbing hard enough to suit them. I'll climb with you!'

The crew agreed, including her boyfriend, lol! I was relegated to the Girls' Team because I fell on a patently easy move on a beginners route.

I was so humiliated I manufactured a "I have something to do" tomorrow and I fucking fled. I did not return to the Leap for many years afterward.

That knife cuts both ways, hehe.

DMT

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