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2009 Trango Homemade Cam World Cup - MAIN EVENT!
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adatesman


Mar 13, 2009, 10:49 AM
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2009 Trango Homemade Cam World Cup - MAIN EVENT!
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As you’ve probably noticed, the 2009 Trango Homemade Cam World Cup has come to an end. Competition in the Beauty Pageant portion of the competition was fierce, but in the end the Webcam pulled ahead to win with 31% of the votes and the set of Ballnutz will be going to Rschap. Congratulations! If you’d like to see the full results kindly follow this link to the Beauty Pageant thread.

As amusing as the Beauty Pageant was there is a lot more to gear than just good looks, so the main event involved testing the gear for strength, quality of construction and ease of use. The full breakdown of the scoring process is available here: Link

I’m sure you’re going to scroll to the end to see who the winner is before reading any further, I’ll save you the trouble and give the results right here:



Congratulations to Batguano and his Flexy Lady! I hope you like offwidths, because there’s most of a set of Trango Big Bro’s headed your way!

On a side note, anyone who's been following the silliness here in The Lab will probably notice a big difference in the force charts below in comparison to the ones I posted for earlier tests; the little dips and pauses in the loading have are pretty much gone and the loading profile is much more linear. The short explanation is that the hand pump turned out to have nowhere near the capacity needed for the new hydraulic cylinder so its been replaced with an electric pump. Its much noisier, which makes it harder to hear the parts breaking, but I think its worth it since it applies the load in a much more consistent manner than the old (leaky) hand pump and makes the chart of the forces much more meaningful. Plus I can go hide in relative safety while parts go flying rather than sitting there hoping for the best...

Oh, and to make it easy on everyone, here's a list of the strengths:


(This post was edited by adatesman on Mar 19, 2009, 6:59 AM)
Attachments: scores.JPG (9.32 KB)
  strengths.JPG (19.3 KB)


adatesman


Mar 15, 2009, 11:23 AM
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Mank [In reply to]
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Name: Mank – Wishiwasamonkey
Total Score: 64.20
Range: 29.7 – 46.5mm
Weight: 232.5 grams
Strength: 0 kN
Failure Mode: Slipped out of the fixture
Video: N/A
Comments: There were a couple problems with Mank, the biggest of which being there was nothing I could do to get it to hold in the crack fixture. I spent half an hour playing with it and not once got it to hold even a gentle tug. The other issues centered around the tenancy of the lobes to over-rotate and jam when the trigger is pulled, which made placement and removal a bit interesting. With a bit of tweaking and swapping out the lobes for aluminum ones I think it would do well.

Scoring:


Before:


Mank wasn't able to grip the test fixture, so no chart of the forces or post-destruction photo. Frown

(This post was edited by adatesman on Mar 17, 2009, 2:19 PM)
Attachments: mank_score.JPG (21.9 KB)


adatesman


Mar 15, 2009, 11:23 AM
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Top Secret Cam Prototype Version 2.1 [In reply to]
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Name: Top Secret Cam Prototype Version 2.1 – Jeremy11
Total Score: 97.48
Range: 44.2 – 78.8mm
Weight: 379.9 grams
Strength: 8.77 kN
Failure Mode: Sling broke
Video: Link
Comments: The weak spot was clearly the webbing runner, seeing as the rest of the cam is still in perfect condition after the runner broke. Poking around a bit it looks like there is a sharp edge in the hole the runner was run through, so that would probably explain why it broke at such a low force. Placement and removal was fairly easy, but the runner tended to get in the way of the trigger. The extreme length of the cam may be problematic for some placements though, since it needs to be set in quite far for the larger, lower lobes to come in to play (e.g.- not good for a large, shallow placement). In fact it fit into the test fixture with only ¼” to spare... Oh, and if you look closely at the picture you’ll see that the stem got tweaked when the cam went flying out of the fixture after the sling broke.

Scoring:


Before:

After:

Detail:

Forces:


(This post was edited by adatesman on Mar 19, 2009, 8:47 AM)
Attachments: tscp.JPG (26.0 KB)
  tscp_score.JPG (21.9 KB)


adatesman


Mar 15, 2009, 11:23 AM
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Green 2cam [In reply to]
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Name: Green 2cam - Edavidso
Total Score: 93.43
Range: 19.3 – 24.2mm
Weight: 48.2 grams
Strength: 6.01 kN
Failure Mode: Axle supports on the cam lobes buckled
Video: Link
Comments: Very nicely made but had some issues with the stem buckling when the trigger was pulled, which made getting the cam fully retracted difficult. An overly narrow trigger bar didn't help things either. Anyway, it turns out that the interlocking cam lobe supports were a major weak point and caused the unit to fail at a surprisingly low force. Perhaps there's enough room in there to widen them, otherwise switching over to a stronger alloy might be necessary.

Scoring:


Before:

After:

Detail:

Forces:


(This post was edited by adatesman on Mar 17, 2009, 3:50 PM)
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  2cam_score.JPG (21.9 KB)


adatesman


Mar 15, 2009, 11:24 AM
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Aluminum Lilbro [In reply to]
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Name: Aluminum Lilbro – Bhickey & Friends
Total Score: 50.85
Range: 97.4 – 134.3mm
Weight: 215.5 grams
Strength: 9.22 kN
Failure Mode: Yielding of the aluminum tube where it contacted the fixture
Video: Link
Comments: Frankly I’m rather surprised by how low a force the Aluminum Lilbro failed at. From talking with Mal at Trango, regular Big Bros generally fail by way of the sling pulling through the aluminum of the tube rather than yielding of the end of the tube. I suspect the difference is in the materials used, with the Lilbro using a much weaker alloy than Trango does with its Big Bros. On another note you pretty much needed 3 hands and a prehensile tail to place the Aluminum Lilbro since the threaded portion was free to rotate, which means that you needed to hold it in position when tightening the collar to keep the bevel pointed the right way. Getting it to stay in the fixture was a bit of a problem as well since any bit of sling-induced rotation liked to pop it out. If it did stick removal generally required the use of a hammer. Oh, and the pause when pulling it (and corresponding dip in the force curve) came when I saw how much it was yielding and decided to pull it to failure at 75% expansion rather than try and get it to work in its deformed state at 50% expansion.

Scoring:


Before:

After:

Detail:

Forces:


(This post was edited by adatesman on Mar 17, 2009, 3:47 PM)
Attachments: alum-lilbro.JPG (25.9 KB)
  alum-lilbro_score.JPG (21.9 KB)


adatesman


Mar 15, 2009, 11:24 AM
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Kenn's Kam [In reply to]
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Name: Kenn’s Kam – Kennoyce
Total Score: 87.37
Range: 47.4 – 78.9mm
Weight: 189.9 grams
Strength: 10.49 kN
Failure Mode: Deformation of the axle
Video: Link
Comments: Kenn’s Kam was once of the more exciting entries to break, as the epoxy didn’t take well to being abused like that and sent pieces flying on several occasions. Unfortunately the nice, smooth action only lasted through the first proof test (5kN at 75% expansion) as the vinyl tube pulled out of the head and wouldn’t stay in no matter how firmly it was seated. So every time you pulled the trigger the stem would go 90 degrees to the head and the lobes would only retract a little. To do the other tests I simply collapsed the lobes by hand and pushed it into place.

Scoring:


Before:

After:

Detail:

Forces:


(This post was edited by adatesman on Mar 19, 2009, 6:55 AM)
Attachments: kenn.JPG (27.1 KB)
  kenn_score.JPG (21.9 KB)


adatesman


Mar 15, 2009, 11:25 AM
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Webcam [In reply to]
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Name: Webcam – Rschap
Total Score: 82.98
Range: 211.5 – 303.6mm
Weight: 1060.3 grams
Strength: 7.42 kN
Failure Mode: Axle sheared between two of the lobes
Video: Link
Comments: The webcam suffered from a few problems, the most notable being that the spring tension was insufficient to expand the lobes outward. One of the lobes also had its axle hole drilled a bit cockeyed, so it had a tenancy to miss the cam stop on the opposing lobe and invert. The big issue though was that the axle turned out to be rather weak and sheared surprisingly early. It was quite the sudden failure, with the cam being there one moment and on the floor the next. The slow motion of the video is quite amusing, so be sure to take a look.

Scoring:


Before:

After:

Detail:

Forces:


(This post was edited by adatesman on Mar 17, 2009, 3:31 PM)
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  webcam_score.JPG (21.9 KB)


adatesman


Mar 15, 2009, 11:25 AM
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Steel Lilbro [In reply to]
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Name: Steel Lilbro – Bhickey & Friends
Total Score: 45.11
Range: 93.7 – 128.6mm
Weight: 354.4 grams
Strength: 10.80 kN
Failure Mode: Sling broke
Video: Link
Comments: The Steel Lilbro suffered from many of the same issues as the Aluminum one, where you needed 3 hands to place it, a hammer to remove it and it liked to slip from the fixture at the slightest provocation. Actually, it was even more inclined to slip than the aluminum one and slid several inches down the test fixture before the sling broke.

Scoring:


Before:

After:

Detail:

Forces:


(This post was edited by adatesman on Mar 17, 2009, 3:27 PM)
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adatesman


Mar 15, 2009, 11:25 AM
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Flexy Lady (size green) [In reply to]
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Name: Flexy Lady (size green) – Batguano
Total Score: 103.73
Range: 61.7 – 100.2mm
Weight: 343.0 grams
Strength: 15.66 kN
Failure Mode: Stem pulled out of head
Video: Link
Comments: Of all of the entries, Flexy Lady probably suffered the least amount of damage from testing; the lobes are straight and the action is smooth. Had the swage not pulled off the stem it probably would have held considerably more force. It looks like there may be room to slip a runner through the head like on Kenn’s Kam, which would probably be much stronger.

Scoring:


Before:

After:

Detail 1:

Detail 2:

Forces:


(This post was edited by adatesman on Mar 17, 2009, 3:21 PM)
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adatesman


Mar 15, 2009, 11:26 AM
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The Zibenator [In reply to]
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Name: The Zibenator – Grover
Total Score: 88.26
Range: 72.0 – 101.5mm
Weight: 442.3 grams
Strength: 13.57 kN
Failure Mode: Deformation of the axle lead to the lobes buckling
Video: Link
Comments: It may be ugly and obscenely heavy, but you can’t help but love it. While it was crudely built with just a hacksaw and drill, it ended up being stronger than all but one of the other entries. Failure actually came slowly, with the lobes slipping and regrabbing as they became completely mangled.

Scoring:


Before:

After:

Detail:

Forces:


(This post was edited by adatesman on Mar 17, 2009, 2:42 PM)
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adatesman


Mar 15, 2009, 11:26 AM
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Nutter [In reply to]
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Name: Nutter – Cosmicharlie
Total Score: 36.40
Range: 34.4 – 41.0mm
Weight: 124.7 grams
Strength: 3.78 kN
Failure Mode: Stem pulled out of head
Video: Link
Comments: The Nutter looked promising, but sadly suffered the same fate as the Flexy Lady; the swage fitting was simply not strong enough to hold the cable to the head. Had it held, I think it may have become a permanent part of my test fixture... It took several blows from a hammer on the small end of the head to get it to release.

Scoring:


Before:

After:

Detail:

Forces:


(This post was edited by adatesman on Mar 17, 2009, 2:35 PM)
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  nutter_score.JPG (22.1 KB)


adatesman


Mar 18, 2009, 7:15 AM
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Re: [adatesman] 2009 Trango Homemade Cam World Cup - MAIN EVENT! [In reply to]
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So that's it! Feel free to discuss and let me know if you want photos of anything else. I'll be sending the remains back to the people who wanted them early next week.

And since so many people have asked, yes I'll give another try at breaking any of them, so long as its ok with their maker. So if its your entry post up here if you want me to give it another try and let me know how you want it done/what changes to make. Personally I'm curious how Flexy Lady would do with the head bored out enough to slip a dyneema runner in there.... {hint, hint.... Smile}.

-aric.


adatesman


Mar 19, 2009, 7:36 AM
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bigjonnyc


Mar 19, 2009, 7:58 AM
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Re: [adatesman] 2009 Trango Homemade Cam World Cup - MAIN EVENT! [In reply to]
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Was the Flexy Lady pulled by the home sewn sling, or directly on the cable? When I first saw the sling I was wondering how much it might hold.


johnwesely


Mar 19, 2009, 8:04 AM
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Re: [adatesman] 2009 Trango Homemade Cam World Cup - MAIN EVENT! [In reply to]
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I want a my own Flexy Lady now.


adatesman


Mar 19, 2009, 8:09 AM
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iron106


Mar 19, 2009, 8:14 AM
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Re: [adatesman] 2009 Trango Homemade Cam World Cup - MAIN EVENT! [In reply to]
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Thanks Trango and adatesman.


GeneralZon


Mar 19, 2009, 8:20 AM
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Re: [adatesman] 2009 Trango Homemade Cam World Cup - MAIN EVENT! [In reply to]
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This was awesome!! Great job on the analysis. I can't wait til next years comp!!!


adatesman


Mar 19, 2009, 8:44 AM
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jeremy11


Mar 19, 2009, 8:59 AM
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Re: [adatesman] 2009 Trango Homemade Cam World Cup - MAIN EVENT! [In reply to]
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Didn't know we were being judged on our slingage!
Weren't some tested directly to the cable/stem?

Go ahead and pull it to catastrophic failure!
I'm guessing 26.2594 kN


wishiwasamonkey


Mar 19, 2009, 9:09 AM
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Re: [adatesman] 2009 Trango Homemade Cam World Cup - MAIN EVENT! [In reply to]
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Thanks for all your hard work in putting this together aric. It was a lot of fun. I am already scheming for next year.

I would love to see you rig up a constriction and break the mank cam. I'm really curious what its mode of failure will be. (aside from greasing straight out)


adatesman


Mar 19, 2009, 9:20 AM
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sungam


Mar 19, 2009, 9:36 AM
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Re: [adatesman] 2009 Trango Homemade Cam World Cup - MAIN EVENT! [In reply to]
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That was f*cking awesome. Great idea for a comp.
What ever happened to the wood one?


el_layclimber


Mar 19, 2009, 9:44 AM
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Re: [adatesman] The Zibenator [In reply to]
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwBN1d2Iukc

The Zibernator held on like a desperate leader pawing at a crimp who hasn't got the strength to close his fist any more. I'd swear that cam was actually afraid of coming out. I give it the spirit award.


adatesman


Mar 19, 2009, 9:54 AM
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sungam


Mar 19, 2009, 9:58 AM
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Re: [adatesman] 2009 Trango Homemade Cam World Cup - MAIN EVENT! [In reply to]
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Heheh, oh well.
BTW, the videos are awesome. Interesting stuff.
I did notice that I got the "video no longer avalible" notice on almost every single one. If you refresh the page they play just fine, though.


adatesman


Mar 19, 2009, 10:03 AM
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boymeetsrock


Mar 19, 2009, 10:03 AM
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Re: [adatesman] 2009 Trango Homemade Cam World Cup - MAIN EVENT! [In reply to]
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Adatesman,

This was really fun to watch. BIG props to you for putting this all together, and to Trango for sponsoring. Also props to all the contestants.

I'm looking forward to next year already!!

-Boy


sungam


Mar 19, 2009, 10:12 AM
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Yeah, that thing exploded.
I also liked the aluminium small bro, how it slid a little then you stopped pulling, like "oooh, is it gunna go or does it want a little more?".
And the secret cam shooting up, classic.


tallnik


Mar 19, 2009, 10:21 AM
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Re: [el_layclimber] The Zibenator [In reply to]
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Hell... I want my own zibenator - that thing is BADASS, plus it held on like the beast it looked like. It was pawing and scratching and all scrappy-like. That video of it failing is AWESOME!

Nik


jeremy11


Mar 19, 2009, 12:42 PM
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Re: [jeremy11] 2009 Trango Homemade Cam World Cup - MAIN EVENT! [In reply to]
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jeremy11 wrote:
Didn't know we were being judged on our slingage!
Weren't some tested directly to the cable/stem?

Upon more thought, the mode of failure was actually due to a little bur or edge cutting the runner to half its expected strength - a 9/16" loop with a water knot should hold somewhere around 15 kN, so the fault is not the runner but in not sanding the hole down better. Oops, better here than in field testing!

But I'm pumped to see what breaks!

Great job to all, and I was excited to see a surprise winner!

Now its time to make a 9" cam, easier to use than Big Bros anyway!


sjnutting


Mar 19, 2009, 1:32 PM
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Re: [jeremy11] 2009 Trango Homemade Cam World Cup - MAIN EVENT! [In reply to]
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Yes, let's see what our top-secret cam actually holds!

After reading the dirtbag approach to cam building article and seeing how you tested it, we figured that the sling was only for looks. Live and learn, next year it will have a 3/8" steel 7x19 GAC with a zinc-plated copper sleeve Cool

It's cool to see we got 2nd place considering all the great entries there were. It's probably for the best anyway; if we won the big-bros I would have paid for them over and over again in all the nasty, chossy offwidth first ascents Jeremy would have dragged me up (he's a bit demented in that way). I was hoping for the ball-nuts, though, since I've taken to aid climbing as I get older and out of shape.


cosmicharlie


Mar 19, 2009, 3:22 PM
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Re: [adatesman] 2009 Trango Homemade Cam World Cup - MAIN EVENT! [In reply to]
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Thanks for running an awesome competition
Thanks to trango also.
Sad to see my nutter didn't do so wellFrown
Was mine the only one that got negative in a catagory???
Either way. If you can mail it back to me i will greatly like to fix the swage and retest.
Let me know if you need anything from me.


rschap


Mar 19, 2009, 5:33 PM
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Re: [cosmicharlie] 2009 Trango Homemade Cam World Cup - MAIN EVENT! [In reply to]
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Hot damn, that kicked a$$. Good job to everyone and Congrates to BatGuano for the win. Thank you Trango for the sponsorship (and the Ball Nutz) and thank you Aric for all the hard work and the great write ups. I almost want to make a new shaft and send it back to you but I think I’ll just wait till next year. I admit it was very entertaining to watch my cam go down. The Zibernator and the top secrete cam were great to watch as well.


I’m confused did you not pull mine from the sling? If so how did you pull it, I was counting on the sling equalizing the force. I pretty much conceded the win when I boxed that mess and shipped it (I needed more time) but I was just wondering so I know what changes to make for next time.


adatesman


Mar 19, 2009, 6:12 PM
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adatesman


Mar 19, 2009, 6:22 PM
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rschap


Mar 19, 2009, 7:08 PM
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adatesman wrote:
Oops, forgot about the sling on the Webcam..... Yup, pulled it by the sling as well, right at the blue tape that held the equalization together.


Ahh, sounds good, I've just been watching the video over and over trying to see what improvements I need to make. I'm sure when I get the cam back a lot more will be obvious. Thank you for the info.


sjnutting


Mar 19, 2009, 10:03 PM
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RSCHAP, I think you need to send in your webcam for pull-testing...those lobes might have microfractures in them after hitting the floor so hard Wink Seriously though, Congrats on the beauty pageant win! Those lobes are so cool! Enjoy the ball-nuts!

Aric, I can't tell a lot from the photos. What was the innovation factor on the flexy lady? She's sure pretty, even after she was torn apart!


cosmicharlie


Mar 20, 2009, 7:54 AM
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adatesman wrote:
cosmicharlie wrote:
Was mine the only one that got negative in a catagory???

Nope, all of the entries that broke under 10kN got a negative for the peak force. The -10 in the calculation for the peak was to compensate for the 5 points for each of the two 5kN proof tests and keep the points from strength from overshadowing the other scores.

BlushBlushi guess i should have looked closer ... my bad.
ohhhhh the shame!!!!!
i am totally going to redo the swage and make that a permanent part of your fixture.
i wonder if this is a good idea for a permanent anchor?


adatesman


Mar 20, 2009, 8:47 AM
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kennoyce


Mar 20, 2009, 12:18 PM
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Re: [adatesman] 2009 Trango Homemade Cam World Cup - MAIN EVENT! [In reply to]
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In reply to:
It got a 10 since I've not ever heard of a design that used a swage below the axle like that. The earlier generation Camalot used a ball swage fitting similarly, but it was on top of the head and wouldn't work with a single axle unit.


I'm not calling out your scoring or anything, I just think its kind of funny since I was considering doing the same type of swage for my cam but decided that I'd do the dyneema to try and get innovation points. I figured that that type of swage was just copying the camalot, so it wouldn't work.

Once Again thanks for all of your hard work on everything, I can't wait for next year and I have some pretty sweet ideas.

P.S. I'll make sure that next years entry doesn't have any exploding epoxy, and a head that stays put after proof testing so that your job is a bit easier.

edit to fix my quote.


(This post was edited by kennoyce on Mar 20, 2009, 3:41 PM)


adatesman


Mar 20, 2009, 12:41 PM
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sed


Mar 20, 2009, 8:00 PM
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Adatesman, thanks for all the hard work. Where do you find the time? Do you have a basement full of half-size minions doing all the work for you for peanuts and mead? If not you should get some. I do have one observation about the test methodology. It seems as though a few of the cams results simply slipped out because the steel testing apparatus you use is so low of friction. Using flat, smooth steel doesn't seem like it would translate well to any useful outdoor application. It seems like this is really all contest of which piece of pro is strongest in flat smooth steel. I would assume that the libro(s) would probably be the strongest in real rock testing (cord/webbing breakage aside).
I'm not sure what the answer is for testing since all gear has various situations where it is optimum in. I guess you would have to let the designer define the ideal testing situation and test the piece within that methodology? It's a real apples and oranges problem here wouldn't you agree? I just don't want some of the guys who put a lot of work into making these things to go away with weak test results and think the gear they made was crap. Real world usage of these designs would likely has yielded very different outcomes. Congrats for all, I hope it was a fun and learning experience for all the builders.
Sc


adatesman


Mar 20, 2009, 9:58 PM
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sed


Mar 20, 2009, 10:35 PM
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Interesting, thanks for the reply. I hope I didn't come across as being critical of your work. I was just wondering outloud. This contest was for fun anyway so it doesn't really matter which one would work best in the real world. Testing results are only a guideline, they can empower but not substitute for experience and use in the field. Thanks again for your work, I've gained insights about gear through your testing and subsequent discussions.


adatesman


Mar 21, 2009, 7:40 AM
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rschap


Mar 21, 2009, 8:12 AM
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I would think it would be better to test them under bad conditions such as a frictionless surface so that you know they will only hold better under good conditions. Plus you never know when you'll come across a slick surface.


adatesman


Mar 21, 2009, 10:22 AM
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batguano


Mar 23, 2009, 5:07 AM
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thanks to adatesman and everyone else who worked to put this event on.

props and good work to everybody who submitted an entry.

good times!


Partner cracklover


Mar 24, 2009, 9:29 AM
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Thanks to RC.com for its support, to adatesman for doing everything he did, to Trango for its sponsorship, and for all the entrants, for sumbitting such cool stuff to get broken!

This has been totally fun to watch!

sjnutting wrote:
It's cool to see we got 2nd place considering all the great entries there were. It's probably for the best anyway; if we won the big-bros I would have paid for them over and over again in all the nasty, chossy offwidth first ascents Jeremy would have dragged me up (he's a bit demented in that way). I was hoping for the ball-nuts, though, since I've taken to aid climbing as I get older and out of shape.

I voted for ya! Sorry you didn't win. But that webcam really was a thing of beauty, you have to admit that.

Hey Aric - how high does your puller go to? If it's under 20kN, I wouldn't be too surprised if the Top Secret Prototype with a thick cable on it maxes it out!

And other folks have said it already, but the Zibenator's failure mode was just so awesome. That thing was an inspiration!

"Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

--Dylan Thomas

GO


adatesman


Mar 24, 2009, 9:48 AM
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jeremy11


Mar 24, 2009, 10:01 AM
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I am waiting with eager anticipation!

remember, the twin axle design also spreads the force out over two axles equally, and over 8 lobes instead of 4, so with 5/16" lobes, it has 2.5 times the surface area of a regular cam with 4 1/4" lobes.


(This post was edited by jeremy11 on Mar 24, 2009, 10:02 AM)


Johnny_Fang


Mar 24, 2009, 10:15 AM
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aric--

i hope you finally got some sleep over the last couple of days, because i don't see how you could have slept at all last week.


adatesman


Mar 24, 2009, 1:06 PM
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jeremy11


Mar 24, 2009, 1:41 PM
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adatesman wrote:
Well, TSCP2.1 is now dead. Any guesses at failure mode and strength while I put together the pics, charts and video?

-a.

Failure mode: Sling hole broke
Strength: 26.69821

Thanks! Glad to hear you could do it!


adatesman


Mar 24, 2009, 2:06 PM
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jeremy11


Mar 24, 2009, 2:09 PM
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so, maybe I need to go stronger than a grade 8 bolt?


would the increased surface area (2.5 times) make it easier to slide out?


(This post was edited by jeremy11 on Mar 24, 2009, 2:13 PM)


adatesman


Mar 24, 2009, 2:12 PM
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jeremy11


Mar 24, 2009, 2:15 PM
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adatesman wrote:
Not necessarily... There's a balance to be struck between strength and ductility. Might be better to simply go with a larger bolt.

because harder metal may be nominally stronger, but is also more brittle?

I'll definitely go to 3/8" for any 9" cam shenanigans.


adatesman


Mar 24, 2009, 4:47 PM
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rschap


Mar 24, 2009, 8:48 PM
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I was going to say the same but I was going to use 4130 Chromoly and regular hot rolled steel (forget the alloy), chromolly is 30% tougher (harder and stronger) then hot rolled and actually much less brittle. A lot of it depends on what they use to make it harder, like if they alloy it or if they temper it. Stainless steel is actually one of the worst; it’s shear strength is very low. A grade 8 bolt is one of the toughest commercial bolts.


jeremy11


Mar 25, 2009, 8:06 AM
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The more I think about the head unit on the Flexy Lady, the more I like how it supports the axle and keeps each pair of lobes close together minimizing leverage in between the two.
Now I'm cooking up some nice innovative plans for the 2010 World Cup....
This sure is addictive. Now I need a swedging tool.


sjnutting


Mar 25, 2009, 11:01 AM
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jeremy11 wrote:
The more I think about the head unit on the Flexy Lady, the more I like how it supports the axle and keeps each pair of lobes close together minimizing leverage in between the two.
Now I'm cooking up some nice innovative plans for the 2010 World Cup....
This sure is addictive. Now I need a swedging tool.
See what you started!? It's like buying your first piece of trad gear, it's all downhill from there.

Good stuff though, Aric, thanks for testing it again. I was a bit surprised by how low it broke (it is still higher than most commercial cams are rated to, though!).


adatesman


Apr 6, 2009, 12:24 PM
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jeremy11


Apr 7, 2009, 3:38 PM
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Keep the carnage coming!
This site has been pretty boring since the World Cup ended.


wishiwasamonkey


Apr 9, 2009, 6:02 AM
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adatesman wrote:

I think that pretty much wraps up what I was planning to retest, so unless anyone has any requests I'm moving back to breaking other stuff.....

-a.

At some point I would still like to see the mank cam broken. But if it looks like too much of a pita, other broken stuff will probably be more interesting.


rschap


Apr 15, 2009, 3:52 PM
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The Ball Nutz came in today, Thank you Trango, Rockclimbing.com, and most of all Aric for everything. Now I just need my shoulder to heal so I can try them out.


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