Angry, please do not see this as an attack on you. But climbing on a toothed device is akin to me checking whether one of my revolvers is loaded by looking at it from the front, is it not. It will in fact let me get what I want (climb solo/find if it is loaded) but it really is not a good idea, as in proper methods do exist.
Bob

Better than a self belay with a Tibloc. I have seen that as well, Just in case.

But in proper trad-daddy fashion I sport not just a 6pack but a full case up front and could drink all you zima-drinkin' sportos under the table.

I don't want to hijack this, and I'm well aware of TRing on toothed ascenders.

My point was that the teeth are smaller and less likely to damage the rope. Most of the time, when I'm in a situation I'm going to fall, I just sit back on the rope. I have fallen and it's worked fine and in fact hasn't hurt the rope at all.

We all need to choose our own level of safety though. If you're uncomfortable TRing on a mini-trax, I'm not going to ask you to start. I believe that with my backup that the safety I have is enough. Maybe not the safest but I'm willing to justify it due to it's convenience.

Pmyche wrote:
I've used PTs a lot, including jugging on them on weighted lines. It can be done without disastrous results. Again, techniques can be employed to mitigate hazards.
This is needless and senseless action. From this statement alone I do not believe you should even have a public opinion, and wish you would refrain from spouting off about things you should not. There are methods and techniques that allow jugging the haul line, but none of these involve jugging on any hauling device or a loaded line. The methods include tying an alpine butterfly to the rope and anchoring this for rapping and jugging. The other is to use a prussic below the device to bear the juggers weight. It is and always has been a bad idea to jug a weighted line. This adds unnecessary wear over edges and makes going over these edges way more dificult than it need to be. It also adds to the forces involved should a mishap occur. This being an example.
With three, the third climber jugs the line and the second lowers the bag once the line is freed up. Your method has been dubbed the "suicide haul" for a reason. DO NOT DO THIS. EVER.
Pmyche also wrote:
It's not hard for me to imagine. I've taken a fall on rap, so I know what falling on a fixed line threaded thru a PT feels like. Anyone who's fallen seconding the start of a free pitch knows. I don't want to do it either, Styn, but given that unexpected mishap I would much rather be on dynamic. Much.
It is my opinion you should refrain from giving anyone advice, as you clearly are a dangerous individual. The fact that you fell on rap, on a toothed device, lets me, and everyone else see that your judgement of safe technique needs some reassesment on your part. I can not think of any emergency that would force me into this situation.
In a previous post you wrote:
It doesn't say the haul line was weighted. I think it was not. I think they got in a hurry to get James up there so they could let out the bag and clean.

The haul line was weighted, as determined and reported last fall, when the accident happened. It was also determined that there was a backup knot used, although it was 15 feet above the Protrax, bad form indeed.
Pmyche also wrote above:
As usual, layers of mistakes led to incident:

1 Not backing up the hauler
2 Not using the biner lock on the hauler
3 Using a static line

Take any one of those mistakes out and there probably would not have been an accident.
Point one is that there was no backup, but the backup is what indeed did hit the hauler after fifteen feet of slack went through.
Point two says there was operator error, and I could not agree more, but the lack of using a biner is just a minor point on this, many other wrongs were done.
Point three is strictly from your and a few others opinion, and a narrow minded one at that. I would challenge you to actually learn your craft, practice it right, and then maybe give the advice you seem to want to give. Only please, do not let others get the impression that your way is right. You are dangerous man.
Bob

Oh yea, Alpine07 and GenearZon, I did not mean for it to sound like I condoned people top roping or leading on these toothed devices,(see your and my posts above) I do not. I simply stated it happens everyday, by higher end climbers as well as gumbys. Sorry for the confusion.

"We all know the Wall Hauler is too weak for any serious wall use, yet there it was the A5 Big Wall Tech Manual. "

Anybody care to enlighten me before I take the big ride?

How sad. Condolences to the family.

It is not 100% clear to me that the climber was jugging the weighted haul line. One assumes this to be the case since the weight of the pig is mentioned, but are we sure of this?

Here are the problems:

no carabiner was clipped through the holes to hold the plates together, which was the fundamental error made by the leader

the leader also failed to tie a backup knot just above the Pro-Trax, which you should always do when you have a "live" load

The biggest problem, of course, is that the Pro-Trax is a Piece Of Sh|t. I have been telling you guys this - on this climbing forum and on others - FOR YEARS, yet in spite of my caveats, many of you have wasted money buying this thing.

..........

The Pro-Trax is an overpriced piece of junk with serious design flaws. Tom has talked about them over on McTopo. I've destroyed two on the wall, have personally seen one other failure, and read of other failures. You might be OK if you're not hauling really huge loads. The problem is that if the thing is torqued at all, it gets buggered.

For only a few bucks more, you can get the amazingly better and very strong Kong Block Roll, with a much bigger pulley, better bearings, and hugely easier to haul. The thing is emphatically The Shit. Great device, unfortunately the damn supplier is terrible at getting the things over to North America. I've had a half-dozen on backorder since the summer, when they told me they would have them! [They now say Nov 15, so we shall see]

Don't buy a Pro-Trax. Better to buy a nice big 4" pulley with sweet bearings, and use your own inverted ascender. Just hang your ascender on a wired stopper, not a sling, to reduce stretch.

Cheers,
Pete