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jmeizis


Aug 13, 2009, 11:40 PM
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Re: [jakedatc] A Guide's Life [In reply to]
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I think you might want to read that again. You've got some of the facts wrong.

-I wasn't being guided, we swapped leads.
-We were a little gun shy from our last experience.
-It was our second time on the biggest cliff in the northeast.
-We had more than we needed.

It might be helpful if you climbed there before you commented so that way you were speaking from a position of knowledge.


jt512


Aug 13, 2009, 11:47 PM
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Re: [jmeizis] A Guide's Life [In reply to]
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jmeizis wrote:
[I'm right and you're wrong. I sincerely want your honest feedback. Without it, I have no way to explain to you why you are wrong about me. I'm really not a pretentious, narcissistic n00b. If you would kindly give me some constructive criticism on my deep, meaningful blog, I will happily explain to you why.]

Jay

P.S. Jeremiah, I have already given this post one star to save you the trouble.


(This post was edited by jt512 on Aug 13, 2009, 11:56 PM)


socalclimber


Aug 14, 2009, 4:36 AM
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Re: [jt512] A Guide's Life [In reply to]
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Is this some kind of bad joke, or is it a poorly constructed troll?

So who exactly are you working for as a guide? Sounds like pirate guide work to me. A big no no these days.

What medical training do you have?

"I'm losing confidence, you seemed so confident before, but it doesn't seem like you know where you're going and if you don't know where you are going then how will you know which climbs will be safe."

This speaks volumes. Rule 1 in guiding is know your area. Have it dialed. I show up as much as an hour before the client arrives to have things ready and setup. I know how to keep the pace going to eliminate possible down time. The worst thing you can do with a client is to not no where you're going or having them sit around while you figure out what to do.

If you are unclear about an area, go out the day before and dial the area in.

There's a good reason why most guide schools hire either locals or long term climbers who know the area like the back of their hand.


You have absolutely no business guiding.


(This post was edited by socalclimber on Aug 14, 2009, 5:16 AM)


Gmburns2000


Aug 14, 2009, 6:05 AM
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Re: [jakedatc] A Guide's Life [In reply to]
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jakedatc wrote:
Here's our fearful leader only 2 years ago.. being guided up 5.8 with a 20 fucking pound pack? wtf do you need that weighs 20lbs exactly...
[image]http://www.climbing.com/exclusive/readerblogs/greg_burns/gregburns-cannon-jeremiah-37.jpg[/image]

In reply to:
Jeremiah Meizis with a 20lb pack on the Whitney-Gilman Ridge (II 5.7) in October of 2007 on Cannon Cliff, Franconia Notch State Park, New Hampshire.

In reply to:
We headed up the classic Whitney-Gilman Ridge with relative ease (well, at one point, on the last pitch, Jeremiah had difficulty pulling the final crux with the 20lb pack on his back

exactly what weighs 20 lbs.. while being guided up a 5.7 5 pitch route? i mean it's Cannon not Denali

That wasn't a guided trip. We swapped leads. I had the last pitch.

As for the weight, we had a lot of crap that we didn't need and were afraid of getting caught in another storm on top of Cannon, which is no fun. We definitely learned our lesson on those two trips.


wanderlustmd


Aug 14, 2009, 6:25 AM
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tready wrote:
Woohoo! Now lemme go get some popcorn...

2nd....

I've forgotten how much fun it can be outside of the lounge.


(This post was edited by wanderlustmd on Aug 14, 2009, 6:29 AM)


camhead


Aug 14, 2009, 6:28 AM
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Re: [jakedatc] A Guide's Life [In reply to]
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jakedatc wrote:
Here's our fearful leader only 2 years ago.. being guided up 5.8 with a 20 fucking pound pack? wtf do you need that weighs 20lbs exactly...


In reply to:
Jeremiah Meizis with a 20lb pack on the Whitney-Gilman Ridge (II 5.7) in October of 2007 on Cannon Cliff, Franconia Notch State Park, New Hampshire.

In reply to:
We headed up the classic Whitney-Gilman Ridge with relative ease (well, at one point, on the last pitch, Jeremiah had difficulty pulling the final crux with the 20lb pack on his back

exactly what weighs 20 lbs.. while being guided up a 5.7 5 pitch route? i mean it's Cannon not Denali

Rocks! Barbells! He was training to climb 5.9!


wanderlustmd


Aug 14, 2009, 6:38 AM
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jmeizis wrote:
I think you might want to read that again. You've got some of the facts wrong.

-I wasn't being guided, we swapped leads.
-We were a little gun shy from our last experience.
-It was our second time on the biggest cliff in the northeast.
-We had more than we needed.

It might be helpful if you climbed there before you commented so that way you were speaking from a position of knowledge.
Two way streets are a bitch, aren't they?

Look dude, I don't know you and have no desire to flame, but based on what I've read, you might want to think twice before posting as much of this stuff as you do. I'd put money on the prospect of you kicking yourself when you look back a few years from now with a greater perspective on the whole shebang.

I think very few people are true guides in every sense of the word, but that's more explaination than I care to type and I've got things to do.

Also know that, while JT may be salty, he's usually right.


dr_feelgood


Aug 14, 2009, 6:40 AM
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/watches shitshow


camhead


Aug 14, 2009, 6:45 AM
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I know this had been brought up before, but I recall years ago when someone else on this site was talking about being a "guide," and jt512 said something to the effect of "Does anyone else remember when being a 'guide' meant that you had to be able to free solo 5.9 in the rain in approach shoes? Now it just refers to anyone who can set up a toprope for a youth group." Still rings true.

High hopes for this thread. And no, I am not going to read the original blorg post.


wanderlustmd


Aug 14, 2009, 6:46 AM
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camhead wrote:
I know this had been brought up before, but I recall years ago when someone else on this site was talking about being a "guide," and jt512 said something to the effect of "Does anyone else remember when being a 'guide' meant that you had to be able to free solo 5.9 in the rain in approach shoes? Now it just refers to anyone who can set up a toprope for a youth group." Still rings true.

High hopes for this thread. And no, I am not going to read the original blorg post.
My new netflix hasn't come in yet, so I'm hoping this can be a backup.


dr_feelgood


Aug 14, 2009, 6:49 AM
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wanderlustmd wrote:
camhead wrote:
I know this had been brought up before, but I recall years ago when someone else on this site was talking about being a "guide," and jt512 said something to the effect of "Does anyone else remember when being a 'guide' meant that you had to be able to free solo 5.9 in the rain in approach shoes? Now it just refers to anyone who can set up a toprope for a youth group." Still rings true.

High hopes for this thread. And no, I am not going to read the original blorg post.
My new netflix hasn't come in yet, so I'm hoping this can be a backup.

Shit, I've got the chips and salsa out.
Yes, at 9:50 am.


fresh


Aug 14, 2009, 6:49 AM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] A Guide's Life [In reply to]
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In reply to:
I officially feel like I could solo most 5.10's

In reply to:
One of the climbs I lead in Elevenmile was a nice 5.10a called Life on the Run. The first half was easy, the total climb being only a little over 50 feet tall. Despite the easy first half I crammed the second half with more gear than necessary. I onsighted the climb but I couldn't bring myself to crawl more than a foot above my gear.



In reply to:
Then outside of Leadville on a straight flat portion of road I sped up. I didn't know how fast I was going or what the speed limit was. I was on that fine edge of control that climbers are very familiar with but most people are lucky to have dealt with once in their lives.

In reply to:
I have a terrible habit of putting the pedal to the floor

In reply to:
The true dangers of my life are unfortunately at the hands of others.



In reply to:
At this point the mother stopped and said something so degrading that she might as well of slapped me in the face, "I'm losing confidence, you seemed so confident before, but it doesn't seem like you know where you're going and if you don't know where you are going then how will you know which climbs will be safe." At this point I wished she had slapped me in the face, it would have been easier to maintain a smile. See when you're a guide you must seem invincible, even if you are not. You must have unwavering confidence, gumption, and seemingly boundless reserves of strength and energy. It's a delicate balance. You must seem confident but not brash. Energetic but not manic. While maintaining a firmly dominant upper hand you cannot come off as overbearing. Chiding clients with beta it's hard to not sound condescending and in the end I must maintain an even keel of my temper while promoting their enjoyment and complete safety while taking serious risks to my own health throughout most of the day.

I did not lose my smile though. I calmly explained the many years I had been climbing and the fact that I would not put her daughter in any danger I would not expose myself to. Luckily she didn't know that I am an avid risk taker and that a risk I would take would not be one which she would want her daughter exposed.

In reply to:
The true dangers of my life are unfortunately at the hands of others.

in all honesty, with all respect, dude. wtf.

In reply to:
The person who dropped me told me to send him the medical bills and he would pay for them.
did he actually pay for it?


jakedatc


Aug 14, 2009, 7:14 AM
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In reply to:
Luckily she didn't know that I am an avid risk taker and that a risk I would take would not be one which she would want her daughter exposed.

please stop taking anyone but Greg out climbing... immediately. you are a danger to yourself and the people who think you have a clue as to what you are doing.

so exactly in your "many years of(bullshit) experience" you didnt figure out that you didn't need 20 lbs of useless shit to climb 5 pitches in a day? how screwed up is your system that it takes you that long. Climbing steadily and making good decisions keeps you from getting screwed. Perhaps multipitch isn't for you.


Gmburns2000


Aug 14, 2009, 7:27 AM
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jakedatc wrote:

so exactly in your "many years of(bullshit) experience" you didnt figure out that you didn't need 20 lbs of useless shit to climb 5 pitches in a day? how screwed up is your system that it takes you that long. Climbing steadily and making good decisions keeps you from getting screwed. Perhaps multipitch isn't for you.

Jake, for context, which both of us have noted above (and so did my blog post on my recent Cannon trip), we took the extra stuff because we wanted to hike to the summit after climbing, and when we had tried to do that a few weeks before we got caught in a nasty rain storm without extra gear. When we got caught in the rain after climbing Lakeview we only had our climbing gear (and water, food, etc). A few weeks later, when we brought the pack on WG, it was because we didn't want to get blasted by another rain storm and because we knew it was going to be a long day, which it was.

Considering those two routes were both the first time either of us had been on Cannon, I would have expected there to be some sort of adventure. Even for excellent climbers it is a very unpredictable mountain.


camhead


Aug 14, 2009, 7:29 AM
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In reply to:
I officially feel like I could solo most 5.10's

facepalm.

Uhhh... I'm not sure that Peter Croft would say that. "Consistantly onsighting" does not equal "I could solo that."


jakedatc


Aug 14, 2009, 7:38 AM
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
jakedatc wrote:

so exactly in your "many years of(bullshit) experience" you didnt figure out that you didn't need 20 lbs of useless shit to climb 5 pitches in a day? how screwed up is your system that it takes you that long. Climbing steadily and making good decisions keeps you from getting screwed. Perhaps multipitch isn't for you.

Jake, for context, which both of us have noted above (and so did my blog post on my recent Cannon trip), we took the extra stuff because we wanted to hike to the summit after climbing, and when we had tried to do that a few weeks before we got caught in a nasty rain storm without extra gear. When we got caught in the rain after climbing Lakeview we only had our climbing gear (and water, food, etc). A few weeks later, when we brought the pack on WG, it was because we didn't want to get blasted by another rain storm and because we knew it was going to be a long day, which it was.

Considering those two routes were both the first time either of us had been on Cannon, I would have expected there to be some sort of adventure. Even for excellent climbers it is a very unpredictable mountain.

Yet epics and injuries seem to follow you both everywhere. A pattern like that is not good. A decision process doesn't seem to be working.


marc801


Aug 14, 2009, 7:41 AM
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
Jake, for context, which both of us have noted above (and so did my blog post on my recent Cannon trip), we took the extra stuff because we wanted to hike to the summit after climbing, and when we had tried to do that a few weeks before we got caught in a nasty rain storm without extra gear.
What "extra gear" does one possibly need for the gentle stroll to the summit (where you can take the tram down)?


lena_chita
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Aug 14, 2009, 7:41 AM
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jt512 wrote:
[Oh my god.

Jay

Yeah, that was thought number 1.

Thought number 2 was: Gee, maybe i should start calling myself a guide? I only got lost on my way to the crag once, and that was the place I've never been to ... If Imanage to find a crag that I have been to before, I'm 90% there as far as my guiding credentials go.


camhead


Aug 14, 2009, 7:46 AM
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lena_chita wrote:
jt512 wrote:
[Oh my god.

Jay

Yeah, that was thought number 1.

Thought number 2 was: Gee, maybe i should start calling myself a guide? I only got lost on my way to the crag once, and that was the place I've never been to ... If Imanage to find a crag that I have been to before, I'm 90% there as far as my guiding credentials go.

I remember more than once, Lena.

That incident with the "road" in Muir Valley may have been enough to forever ban you from guiding in America.Smile


gmggg


Aug 14, 2009, 7:46 AM
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Re: [jmeizis] A Guide's Life [In reply to]
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jmeizis wrote:
It might be helpful if you climbed there before you commented so that way you were speaking from a position of knowledge.

Maybe it would be helpful if you pulled the Abbey quote from your signature if reading comprehension is going to be a qualifier here...


markc


Aug 14, 2009, 7:49 AM
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socalclimber wrote:
"I'm losing confidence, you seemed so confident before, but it doesn't seem like you know where you're going and if you don't know where you are going then how will you know which climbs will be safe."

This speaks volumes. Rule 1 in guiding is know your area. Have it dialed. I show up as much as an hour before the client arrives to have things ready and setup. I know how to keep the pace going to eliminate possible down time. The worst thing you can do with a client is to not no where you're going or having them sit around while you figure out what to do.

If you are unclear about an area, go out the day before and dial the area in.

My thoughts exactly. Doing advanced scouting of the approach and potential routes seems like a no-brainer. It's one thing to get a little turned around when you're out with your friends. It's something else entirely when you're being paid to 'guide' someone. In this case, it was the blind leading the blind. He even takes them through a break in a barbed wire fence!

I've never hired a guide, as more experienced friends have helped me along. Should I hire a guide, it would likely be to make sure I'm maximizing my climbing on a trip. (I generally prefer to figure things out on my own, but it could happen.) If someone wasted my time as he did with that family, you can be sure I'd be upset.

For someone that wants to work as a guide, there's precious little introspection or taking ownership of mistakes. He's frustrated by problems of his own making that are easily avoided. Three moving violations? If money's really tight, it's not going to take me three times to learn that lesson. When you add driving is vital to the job, it's even more short-sighted. There's the Gri-Gri, getting lost with clients, etc.

Lastly, I was out in Manitou Springs last month. We spent a little time in Red Rock Canyon Open Space. It has some of the easiest access and routefinding I've ever experienced. Navigating Garden of the Gods doesn't seem much more difficult. Most of Jeremiah's experience seems more in line with AMGA single pitch instructor. If you hang out your shingle as a guide, you should be able to back it up.


granite_grrl


Aug 14, 2009, 7:54 AM
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jakedatc wrote:
In reply to:
Luckily she didn't know that I am an avid risk taker and that a risk I would take would not be one which she would want her daughter exposed.

please stop taking anyone but Greg out climbing... immediately. you are a danger to yourself and the people who think you have a clue as to what you are doing.
Agreed. This quote made my jaw drop. Jerimiah's attempts to make himself look like a hardcore risk taker makes me sick, and is certainly not someone that I'll ever rope up with.


jakedatc


Aug 14, 2009, 8:00 AM
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granite_grrl wrote:
jakedatc wrote:
In reply to:
Luckily she didn't know that I am an avid risk taker and that a risk I would take would not be one which she would want her daughter exposed.

please stop taking anyone but Greg out climbing... immediately. you are a danger to yourself and the people who think you have a clue as to what you are doing.
Agreed. This quote made my jaw drop. Jerimiah's attempts to make himself look like a hardcore risk taker makes me sick, and is certainly not someone that I'll ever rope up with.

Yea.. i won't tie in with either of them.. Getting lost, hurt, benighted, especially on a regular basis does not fit into my partner criteria. And certainly doesn't make you look cool or hardcore. it makes you sound unsafe and stupid


Gmburns2000


Aug 14, 2009, 8:01 AM
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jakedatc wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
jakedatc wrote:

so exactly in your "many years of(bullshit) experience" you didnt figure out that you didn't need 20 lbs of useless shit to climb 5 pitches in a day? how screwed up is your system that it takes you that long. Climbing steadily and making good decisions keeps you from getting screwed. Perhaps multipitch isn't for you.

Jake, for context, which both of us have noted above (and so did my blog post on my recent Cannon trip), we took the extra stuff because we wanted to hike to the summit after climbing, and when we had tried to do that a few weeks before we got caught in a nasty rain storm without extra gear. When we got caught in the rain after climbing Lakeview we only had our climbing gear (and water, food, etc). A few weeks later, when we brought the pack on WG, it was because we didn't want to get blasted by another rain storm and because we knew it was going to be a long day, which it was.

Considering those two routes were both the first time either of us had been on Cannon, I would have expected there to be some sort of adventure. Even for excellent climbers it is a very unpredictable mountain.

Yet epics and injuries seem to follow you both everywhere. A pattern like that is not good. A decision process doesn't seem to be working.

Not entirely true. I've only been injured once on an actual climb, and that was two weekends ago when I fell on Moby. I tweaked the ankle that I sprained on the ice while walking to work this past winter. I've had a few strained tendons here and there from bouldering or climbing too much in the gym, but that's about it. I'll let Jeremiah clarify, but I don't know of any injuries he has sustained while climbing either (other than the standard overuse gym injuries such as tendons and such).

And I've only had "epics", if that's what you want to call them, on Cannon (two rain storms, one fall, and one long day). Having about 600 pitches or so spread over ten years under my belt, four really bad days on Cannon really isn't indicative poor decision-making. Sometimes shit happens, and I've known it to happen a lot to a fair number of climbers on that mountain, n00bs and not.


Partner macherry


Aug 14, 2009, 8:01 AM
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jakedatc wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
jakedatc wrote:
In reply to:
Luckily she didn't know that I am an avid risk taker and that a risk I would take would not be one which she would want her daughter exposed.

please stop taking anyone but Greg out climbing... immediately. you are a danger to yourself and the people who think you have a clue as to what you are doing.
Agreed. This quote made my jaw drop. Jerimiah's attempts to make himself look like a hardcore risk taker makes me sick, and is certainly not someone that I'll ever rope up with.

Yea.. i won't tie in with either of them.. Getting lost, hurt, benighted, especially on a regular basis does not fit into my partner criteria. And certainly doesn't make you look cool or hardcore. it makes you sound unsafe and stupid
it's good advertising for the guiding business!!!!!Wink

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