My 'mom' recently caught a 25 foot leader fall, the leader weighing quite a bit more than she, caught him from decking while in the process she fell down a talus slope.

Once the dust and talus settled

She stood up, shook her hair, hobbled over to her dangling partner and smiled when she saw the that he was okay.

We were all relieved to see that the two were okay, but we didn't realize that she had suffered severe rope burn until we saw blood streaming out of her palms down the rope...

and the best part of it all

The rope was still locked off

do you think she would consider using gloves or she is done with climbing ?

I am all for gloves and usually use them myself, but I don't think that gloves (or lack thereof) are the issue here. It doesn't take a whole lot of force to lock off an ATC. One only needs position the brake hand correctly. If you have to squeeze the rope that hard, then you're doing it wrong.

top roping is dangerous.

There is so much wrong with this statement I am not even sure it's worth addressing.

I think it's fairly simple:

Person A wasn't on the ball and dropped person B. Person B was injured.

I am having a difficult time understanding why this needs any "analysis". Nor do I understand why the sex of the partner (from the article) has any bearing on the outcome.

Gloves.... Whatever....

I don't think you two are really disagreeing with each other....

My point is simple, gloves will not prevent this type of accident.

As far as the next point that it does not take much to lock off an ATC or other form belay device, I agree.

Gloves have nothing to do with this.

If you even remotely think that gloves will make you a better belayer, or could have prevented this accident, then you really should consider Knitting as a better form of outdoor activity.

completely agree. Just not sure why you said that there was so much wrong with his statement, he was saying the same thing has you

My analysis of your analysis of socalclimber's analysis of shimanilami's analysis is the same.

My analysis of your analysis of socalclimber's analysis of shimanilami's analysis is the same.

I am all for gloves and usually use them myself, but I don't think that gloves (or lack thereof) are the issue here. It doesn't take a whole lot of force to lock off an ATC. One only needs position the brake hand correctly. If you have to squeeze the rope that hard, then you're doing it wrong.

Yeah I could imagine that a female novice would have weak hands. Some gloves and a grigri could have helped here too.

Completely agree but in the article it did say she was lowering her partner. She was probably just letting it slide through her hands, got burned and let go of the rope probably out of surprise. Her partner is now falling, and being a novice got the deer in the headlights syndrome and froze causing her partner to deck (this is how I'm assuming it went down).....so use gloves for belaying.

if the rope is moving swiftly enough to burn your hands while you are lowering someone, then you are already doing something wrong.

Personally I don't wear gloves when climbing for the same reason I don't wear them when I'm on a date; I feel better without them.

The solution is learning good technique. Gloves will only mask poor belay technique. With a bad belay once the rope slips your screwed gloves or no gloves.

Personally I don't wear gloves when climbing for the same reason I don't wear them when I'm on a date; I feel better without them. The solution is learning good technique. Gloves will only mask poor belay technique. With a bad belay once the rope slips your screwed gloves or no gloves. It's all about learning not to release your brake hand and returning to the locked off position as quickly as possible.

Gloves will only mask poor belay technique.

For posterity, full article requoted. BTW, don't climb with N00bs is the correct answer. Teaching in my mind is different than climbing, they are different and separate mindsets. DON'T CLIMB WITH N00BS, may not necessarily mean "don't train N00bs how to belay correctly and practice practice practice and REINFORCE THE IDEA THAT HOW GOOD YOU CLIMB ON THE ROCK DOESN'T MEAN SHIT IF YOUR BELAYS SUCK!!! So practice practice practice those belaying skills. "

I think that there may be more females represented because people are looking for belayers at any cost and not summing up the risk they are taking if they are taking a gym climber out for the first time....just my opinion.

As a petite small woman, I have caught w/no gloves and an ATC many lead falls and found that since I always have a fairly strong grip on the rope and watch my leader, I've NEVER had any ropeburn. I've gotten picked up, swung into cacti, had a climber fall from a sketchy part while clipping and land on top of me and never let go of the rope.

Its not belaying such folk are really after ... just my opinion hehe.

DMT

I think if you can't hold the rope locked off under a severe load, the answer is more friction in the belay and proper technique. If you like gloves go for it, but this isn't addressing the real issue.

I've caught what I consider to be some real whoppers, and they have always lifted me off the ground, up to 5 or 6 feet. Not sure how this would have gone had I been tied down though.

One other thought not really mentioned is the trend toward skinnier ropes. Catching someone on the old 11 mm is different than a slick new 9.2. Might be time to upgrade to a guide atc in hfm, or something similar if you are using skinny ropes. Skinnier ropes are both harder to grasp and generate less friction through the belay device.

Edit to add -- an easy way to add friction using the gear you probably already have is to add an identical locker alongside your existing belay locker.

Edit to add2 -- I would speculate that many of the rope burns reported result when a new belayer reacts in panic, and death clutches the lead side of the rope, and not the braking side.