This weekend, I was about halfway up a T-Wall 5.easy trad lead when I got to experience my first such fall. My last piece was a medium nut slotted into a nice notch.

I was about 6 feet above and 6 feet to the right of two nuts placed in opposition. I hadn't like the way that the large hex was sitting, so I backed it up.

I did not double the medium nut. About 4 or 5 feet higher, my right foot slipped and I started to accelerate downward at 9.8 m/sec squared, minus much friction on my back, ankle, and elbow.

I slid far enough to realize that one or more pieces had blown. Now, the point of the post...

What thoughts have you had while "in transit?"

Mine were:

1. That last nut failed.
2. Will they all fail?
3. Will it hurt when I deck?

(Donna, you made a great catch! Don't second guess yourself.)

This weekend, I was about halfway up a T-Wall 5.easy trad lead when I got to experience my first such fall. My last piece was a medium nut slotted into a nice notch.

I was about 6 feet above and 6 feet to the right of two nuts placed in opposition. I hadn't like the way that the large hex was sitting, so I backed it up.

I did not double the medium nut. About 4 or 5 feet higher, my right foot slipped and I started to accelerate downward at 9.8 m/sec squared, minus much friction on my back, ankle, and elbow.

I slid far enough to realize that one or more pieces had blown. Now, the point of the post...

What thoughts have you had while "in transit?"

Mine were:

1. That last nut failed.
2. Will they all fail?
3. Will it hurt when I deck?

(Donna, you made a great catch! Don't second guess yourself.)

Don't know. I've never had a piece fail free climbing.

Jay

Mine is easy

1- I do not climb so that solve a lot of problems
2- when I do, ohh not again
3- yorrrgoona die
4-you will be in I&A by 6 PM
5-DO NOT FALL , DO NOT DIE AND DO NOT LET THEM READ AND analyze YOUR Fuc*up IN RC


Have a safe climb

Mine is easy

1- I do not climb so that solve a lot of problems
2- when I do, ohh not again
3- yorrrgoona die
4-you will be in I&A by 6 PM
5-DO NOT FALL , DO NOT DIE AND DO NOT LET THEM READ AND analyze YOUR Fuc*up IN RC

Have a safe climb

Don't know. I've never had a piece fail free climbing.

Jay

Not surprising, isn't it rare for shiny new bolts to fail?

More like his pinkpoint draws that are stick clipped 3 bolts ahead of him so he can think he is "leading".

Don't know. I've never had a piece fail free climbing.

Jay

Oh shit....

That is about all that went through my mind on a recent 20' on a sand bagged 5.8 after pumping out and failing on a groveling mantel to a sloped ledge. Hanging there I gave thanks to the #2 BD that didn't budge above me and the .75 that did its job off the belay.

Happens pretty fast. I usually think ... What was that last piece I put in????..... Before I remember I'm caught. Then I'm like ... Oh yeah the .5 C4. Then I think... Man that's a good piece. I should use it more. I've never been caught by a nut. I place a lot of them. It must just be easier climbing when I place nuts. When the climbing gets hard out come the cams. Plug and chug.

Jay, that wasn't the question.

More like his pinkpoint draws that are stick clipped 3 bolts ahead of him so he can think he is "leading".

More like, I've trad climbed for 20 years, including 10 years before I ever touched a sport climb; but unlike you, I don't feel morally superior about it.
Jay

More like, I've trad climbed for 20 years, including 10 years before I ever touched a sport climb; but unlike you, I don't feel morally superior about it.

Jay

More like, I've trad climbed for 20 years, including 10 years before I ever touched a sport climb; but unlike you, I don't feel morally superior about it.

Jay

It's ok Jay, not everyone has the stomach to keep trad climbing.

And not everyone can pull a hard enough move to find sport climbing interesting.

Jay

Is that why you turned to bolts?

I know plenty of guys cranking hard moves above placed gear.

You don't need shiny bolts overprotecting everything, just to pull hard.

I turned to sport climbing because I find it much more challenging than trad climbing.


Are you one of them? If not, speak for yourself.


This is a conversation I'm willing to have with someone like Angry, who's not just all talk. You, on the other hand, are just talking out of your ass, I suspect. I see no reason to have this conversation with you.

Jay

Although, I guess those 3 foot run outs between shiny bolts help ensure that you will enjoy retirement.

Thanks for proving once again that if you have to exaggerate to make a point, then you don't actually have one.

Jay

And not everyone can pull a hard enough move to find sport climbing interesting.
Jay

I thought it would drive the point into your thick skull. I'm sorry you misunderstood.

If pulling the hardest possible move is your primary concern, then why not take up pebble wrestling?

I understand perfectly. You cope with the fact you can't climb as hard as you like by denigrating sport climbing—and you actually think that's original.

Jay

You are an idiot. Try not to project your insecurities on me. I climb pretty hard, and I keep getting stronger. I'm not denigrating sport climbing as a means to cope for any lack of talent either.

Quit trying to be a mind reader like you quit trad climbing.

Just because you phrase something with authority, it doesn't mean its true; nor does it mean you understand it at all. You just end up sounding like a jackass.

My point was that it should have been.

Jay

Way to not feel superior about climbing at all. I'm not such a shabby climber myself. And for the record, I'm not typically willing to talk about climbing hard with washed up old timers who have turned to clipping bolts. Although, I guess those 3 foot run outs between shiny bolts help ensure that you will enjoy retirement. Maybe when I get old, I'll lose my stomach for more exciting climbing, switch to bolts, and lie to myself and everyone else on the interwebs as to why I switched.

Hmm. I didn't expect your response to be so bland. I'm a tad bit disappointed. I'll just have to awe at the good use of the semicolon instead of a more humorous JT512 post.

23 years since the 1986 Great Debate!

Representing Sport- Christian Griffith, Alan Watts, and Todd Skinner
Representing Trad- John Bachar, Rob Robinson, and Ron Kauk
On Trial- Lynn Hill

Lynn Hill whose “ethics” on the first ascent of Vandals were questioned during the Great Debate by the provocative questioning of moderator Jim McCarthy, later summarized her thoughts- “The court found me guilty of hang dogging, but I didn’t feel guilty. I had found a logical way to push the levels of difficulty higher and I enjoyed the learning process.” Later that year, after being introduced to French sport climbing she appreciated that “Instead of worrying about risk, the climber could concentrate on pure difficulty.” Which “… didn’t make me reject the traditional values I had learned in America, but it intrigued me.” She went on to enjoy the great French limestone- the “perfect terrain on which to push the limits of difficulty in this gymnastic form of free climbing.”

Lynn seemed to have no problem freeing her mind. Many of the (really quite exceptional) climbers on that panel have since enjoyed years of enjoyment and success in both arenas. Not a lot of moralizing there.

Yep, Lynn Hill got it. So did her badass buddies Lechlinski, Gingery, Bruckman, Long, and many others, I'm sure. Comically, so many lesser climbers, as represented in this thread, did not. Trad is the only real climbing. Well, the rest of us are sure having a good time, and getting strong, faking it.

Jay

You are an idiot. Try not to project your insecurities on me. I climb pretty hard, and I keep getting stronger. I'm not denigrating sport climbing as a means to cope for any lack of talent either.

Quit trying to be a mind reader like you quit trad climbing. You obviously have no idea what I think, and your projections aren't reality.

Just because you phrase something with authority, it doesn't mean its true; nor does it mean you understand it at all. You just end up sounding like a jackass.

Wrong. The only real climbing is free soloing. There, you have nothing but your skill and ability to judge the rock.

No, sir you are an idiot. Stormeh started with the polite ribbing (which is actually a little ridiculous when you actually know Jay's personal climbing history, but that's a side issue) and then a few others, like you, elected to pursue the point.

Now fuck off, you elitist twat. The only people I ever hear slagging on sport climbing are either pros who got their panties in a bunch that the undeclared project they planned on headpointing got bolted, and people who haven't climbed enough to know that its all climbing.

I'm sorry you're so insecure that you feel the need to highlight your imagined superiority.

/climbs almost exclusively trad
//ashamed to call himself a "trad" climber because of the excess of asshats like you

And not everyone can pull a hard enough move to find sport climbing interesting. -Jay

Are you one of them? If not, speak for yourself.
This is a conversation I'm willing to have with someone like Angry, who's not just all talk. You, on the other hand, are just talking out of your ass, I suspect. I see no reason to have this conversation with you.
-Jay

This thread earlier:

I didn't think this was all that inflammatory.

Last pitch of Second Coming on Muralla I'm presented with the usual four options. Which version do I wanna do today? Neither, lets just skip the cracks and climb the vertical face instead. The horizontal cracks dispersed along the length of the face were few and very far between but I knew that they were deep enough for solid tricam placements.
So off I go, chugging along placing equalized tricams in each horizontal I reach. Pretty sweet. I place my last equalized pieces (red and pinkie as usual) in preparation for the 40ish feet that can't be protected. I cruise the section and about 5ish feet from the bolted anchors I look up and a chipmunk plops on my face. Like any right minded idiot I grab it. With both hands.
So here's the sequence of thoughts:
Seriously? There's a chipmunk on my face. Why does this shit always happen to me. Oh shit, I just grabbed it with both hands. Oh shit, I'm run out like crazy. And the last thought, OHHH SHITTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!

Here's a pic of the "horizontals" basically just seams where the grass and pines were growing out of.
[image]http://mountainproject.com/images/94/93/106489493_large_cccec2.jpg[/image]
How massive that vertical head wall is.
[image]http://mountainproject.com/images/29/66/106512966_large_5f3334.jpg?1249921186[/image]

So Alvin the Chipmunk and I go for a "ride" the tricams hold and I'm caught 10ish feet before slamming into the ledge at the start of the pitch but poor Alvin kept going Sorry buddy, I really tried to hang on.

Supra

Truly the purest expression of this sport.

As long as your not using chalk that is. Which would be like playing pocket pool during absolution. SPIRITUAL CRIMES!

And not everyone can pull a hard enough move to find sport climbing interesting.

Jay

You just end up sounding like a jackass.

I've had pieces pull during some lead falls over the years. Anyone who pretends that pulling perfectly placed trad gear isn't a distinct and even likely possibility SHOULD stick to bolts.

DMT

You are an idiot. Try not to project your insecurities on me. I climb pretty hard, and I keep getting stronger. I'm not denigrating sport climbing as a means to cope for any lack of talent either.

Quit trying to be a mind reader like you quit trad climbing. You obviously have no idea what I think, and your projections aren't reality.

Just because you phrase something with authority, it doesn't mean its true; nor does it mean you understand it at all. You just end up sounding like a jackass.

This weekend, I was about halfway up a T-Wall 5.easy trad lead when I got to experience my first such fall. My last piece was a medium nut slotted into a nice notch.

I was about 6 feet above and 6 feet to the right of two nuts placed in opposition. I hadn't like the way that the large hex was sitting, so I backed it up.

I did not double the medium nut. About 4 or 5 feet higher, my right foot slipped and I started to accelerate downward at 9.8 m/sec squared, minus much friction on my back, ankle, and elbow.

I slid far enough to realize that one or more pieces had blown. Now, the point of the post...

What thoughts have you had while "in transit?"

Mine were:

1. That last nut failed.
2. Will they all fail?
3. Will it hurt when I deck?

(Donna, you made a great catch! Don't second guess yourself.)

No, sir you are an idiot. Stormeh started with the polite ribbing (which is actually a little ridiculous when you actually know Jay's personal climbing history, but that's a side issue) and then a few others, like you, elected to pursue the point.

Now fuck off, you elitist twat. The only people I ever hear slagging on sport climbing are either pros who got their panties in a bunch that the undeclared project they planned on headpointing got bolted, and people who haven't climbed enough to know that its all climbing.

I'm sorry you're so insecure that you feel the need to highlight your imagined superiority.

/climbs almost exclusively trad
//ashamed to call himself a "trad" climber because of the excess of asshats like you

Anyone who pretends that pulling perfectly placed trad gear isn't a distinct and even likely possibility SHOULD stick to bolts.

Just about one of the ony comments that is %100 true in this thread.

This is a truly tired debate. How people keep ending up arguing it is beyond me. It seems to start off innocently enough, with a dig here and a witty comeback there, but then somebody feels like he got disrespected, and all of the sudden sport climbers are pussies.

It looks like there are roughly 400 other threads on this site about how trad climbers are elitist cunts and how sport climbing is for expecting mothers.

Reading comprehension FAIL.
Reread it, and see if you can actually catch what dingus and rocknlice are saying.

Sorry, I wasn't commenting on what those two were saying. The FAIL was me replying to rockandice instead of jt512 and bennydh, or whoever else was stirring up a shit storm.

And hey...I read at a 4th grade level, buddy. More than enough to float to the top in this pond.

Next time try note to quote the people you're not talking to...

Huh? What? Huh? STFU

Huh? What? Huh? STFU

I once fell unexpectedly trying to climb a bigwall in Malaysia. I had a 0.5 camalot in far below because the bolt was rusted that protected the crux. I pulled the crux roof of the pitch, and went to lean back and flick the rope out from under the roof. I was holding a large block that looked attached to the wall but it wasn't apparently. I remember having this sinking feeling in my stomach all of a sudden and my "spidey sense" told me something was wrong. My hand was still on the block, but I was moving. There was a thought of "Oh FUCK this is gonna be a big one!" I just relaxed and the rope caught me about 40' below and I swung into a tree demolishing some almost wrist sized branches. The really sickening feeling came when I realized all that stuff from branches to rocks were slamming down around my GF belaying below. I pulled myself back up the rope and the camalot had slid about 8" out of the crack and was holding me with two lobes. It was almost a REALLY REALLY big fall...

Biggest fall and the most potentially traumatic was actually sport climbing. No gear pull, but blowing a clip plus a belayer error resulted in a 70' head first whistler. I remember there was a ledge about 50' below where I fell. My first thought was "Oh this is gonna suck!" Next thought, "Why haven't I stopped yet." I passed the ledge 50' below and realized it and thought, "Belay failed, I'm dead..." Suddenly I was hanging completely inverted. I grabbed the rope, flipped myself happy as hell on the inside to be alive, turned to my belayer and said calmly, "That is NEVER going to happen again, right?" Half the people at the crag went home immediately after, traumatized. I remember one guy saying, "I've never heard the sound of a human body flying through the air again." I finished the route, refusing to let it get to me. Repeating that clip was one of the scariest things I've ever done climbing, but I finished and lowered...

*gulp*
Sometimes it's worth being the one with the shitty uninteresting stories...

My friend taught me to ask the question, "What would be the more adventurous option?" I'll always prefer to have the more interesting story.

My friend taught me to ask the question, "What would be the more adventurous option?" I'll always prefer to have the more interesting story.