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Tactix23
Sep 15, 2009, 12:28 AM
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I'm looking into getting back into the gym, I had stopped when I decided I wanted to climb frequently. I would like some opinions on creating a workout plan for days opposite climbing days.
Now climbing is all pull motion from the shoulders and back primarily. So I would want to mainly focus on push in the gym correct?
I know chest is barely used as well as triceps so I know those need great focus as well as legs.
I rock climb Tuesday, Thursday, maybe Friday and maybe sunday. So I'm thinking Saturday and sunday should be off days for sure. I can always take a day off if I feel overworked. So that leaves me Monday, Wednesday and Friday (if I don't rock climb)
Any opinions? I'm thinking chest and tris monday, legs and shoulders (shoulder exercises will be done in a fashion that I am using little traps as possible) and friday maybe arms or something since I won't always be going.
I'm not looking to gain massive muscle or weight. Just looking to add on some lean meat.
Thanks!
(This post was edited by Tactix23 on Sep 15, 2009, 12:28 AM)
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testpilot
Sep 15, 2009, 12:53 AM
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You may consider looking into Mountain Athlete or Crossfit (Crossfit.com; Mountainathlete.com) as an alternative to actual lifting weights. I do Crossfit and find that it is much better for me because it focuses more on functional strength rather than larger muscles (heavy). These programs will focus on core strength, balance and power - all of which are a huge help in climbing. In my very humble opinion lifting a barbell or working a nautilus machine will indeed make you stronger but its not that functional strength you need for climbing. If you still want to get into a gym then bodybuilding.com is a pretty good, knowledgeable resource.
Good Luck
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Tactix23
Sep 15, 2009, 1:02 AM
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I would like to hit the gym for purely physique reasons. I do stuff at home like planks and wall sits etc for core strength. But hitting some weights would be nice to maintain size as climbing will only tone me not get me bigger.
Bodybuilding is okay but there are a lot of noobs on there (not saying I'm an expert or anything). Actually one of the best lifting forums is on offtopic.com but they are HUGE elitist douches on that site.
I was just looking to hear from someone who both climbs and works out for physique. Btw, heavy weight doesn't mean bigger muscles. Olympic lifters aren't nearly as big as some bodybuilders because they work more on explosive movement then slow and controlled for size
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caughtinside
Sep 15, 2009, 1:22 AM
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How much ya bench?
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therat
Sep 15, 2009, 1:57 AM
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Only time I lift weights is when I have to take a piss...
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el_layclimber
Sep 15, 2009, 2:31 AM
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angry wrote: therat wrote: Only time I lift weights is when I have to take a piss... That's funny, the only time I lift weights is also when you have to take a piss. Ya, I'm confused too.
Now that is a five-star post.
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whipper
Sep 15, 2009, 2:50 AM
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Hey, I lift to maintain how I look on a regular basis, it does help that I work at a gym.
I also lift all major muscle groups and dont let climbing interfere with my back and/or Bicep work outs. It will help prevent injuries, especially in the shoulders and being strong is healthy all the way around I think. WIll it help climbing, prob not. a few years ago I was 196 lbs, and benched 325. I only climbed up to 5.11 at the time. I have slimed down to 185 and stil dont climb much harder. Climbing helps climbing, lifting helps with the ladies. DIff sports. It feels good to me to be strong, thats really why I lift.
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pfwein
Sep 15, 2009, 4:10 AM
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If you're determined to build your pecs, you may want to think about dips as that could have have some cross over to manteling.
I became a better climber when I pretty much stopped lifting weights and applied the time/energy I would have spent lifting, climbing. I still do some some push ups and dips, which seems to maintain muscle mass--that's probably a bad thing but some habits are hard to break.
If I could live my life over, I probably wouldn't have spent nearly as much time weight-lifting as I did, and I certainly wouldn't recommend anything other than the old do-a-little-work-for-antagonistic-muscles-to-avoid-huge-imbalances if you want to improve your climbing.
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Tactix23
Sep 15, 2009, 5:11 PM
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pfwein wrote: If you're determined to build your pecs, you may want to think about dips as that could have have some cross over to manteling. I became a better climber when I pretty much stopped lifting weights and applied the time/energy I would have spent lifting, climbing. I still do some some push ups and dips, which seems to maintain muscle mass--that's probably a bad thing but some habits are hard to break. If I could live my life over, I probably wouldn't have spent nearly as much time weight-lifting as I did, and I certainly wouldn't recommend anything other than the old do-a-little-work-for-antagonistic-muscles-to-avoid-huge-imbalances if you want to improve your climbing.
I'm not worried about lifting weights having a horrible effect on my climbing. Mostly because I don't plan on gaining anything but lean muscle (by using a proper diet) and I also don't plan on eating enough protein to get huge. I keep it within the 100-150 range at most.
To be honest, I just personally feel I have shit chest genetics as when I did work out, that was by far the hardest area to gain size in. Now I'm starting to look a little silly that my shoulders are gaining great size from rock climbing. I would like to square out my chest and also work my legs and triceps which get neglected.
Chest and tris I'm thinking
incline/flat bench cable pullovers, incline flys, dips, tricep extension
And legs
Squats, lunges, straight legged deadlifts, calf raises
(This post was edited by Tactix23 on Sep 15, 2009, 5:13 PM)
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scotty1974
Sep 15, 2009, 5:36 PM
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One aspect to remember is what type of body frame do you have. Are you prone to bulk up quick, lean or gangly? I'm wide and very thick up top, with a decent ape index, so I stick to more dumbells with full range of motion as opposed to powerlifting.
Also do you need to get bigger? I was about 190lbs. 5'8sih, so I stopped lifting heavy weights as I was getting a little Hulky. I couldn't see my feet since my boobs were in the way! Now I switched over more to interval training ala' crossfit, gymjones and mountain athlete, focusing on alot of pushups, dips and pullups.
You DO NOT want to focus only on your back, unless you want to look like one of the hunchback gym monkeys that you see running around the climbing gym. You need to balance out your body or you'll be cruzing for injuries. If you do alot of pulls, then work the chest and front delts to balance it out and avoid pulling your joints of out wack. I like to also include some yoga and some overhead pulls to help stretch out the chest cavity to balance it out with a strong upper back.
In addition there is no such thing as spot weight reduction, so if you want to build overall strength and induce weight loss, work the whole body...legs and all.
And of course...FOCUS ON YOUR CORE!! Involve it in every workout you do. Not only will it help you build climbing strength, but will help you avoid injury.
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armsrforclimbing
Sep 15, 2009, 5:36 PM
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I have had an excellent experience with Crossfit. Check it out at http://www.crossfit.com. The workouts are intense and varied, and you get great results. Plus you don't need to reinvent the wheel, its all done for you. Oh, and the workout info is all free, but you can join a Crossfit Gym to get the basics down.
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armsrforclimbing
Sep 15, 2009, 5:40 PM
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I should have read your post first Testpilot. You are right on about the functional strength, and the physique follows.
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pfwein
Sep 15, 2009, 5:56 PM
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OK, perhaps your plan will work for you. I'm someone who did put on chest muscle on fairly easily, which may seem like a good thing, but it doesn't help climbing. If you're a "hard gainer," I see where you're coming from, sort of. But remember that many/most high level climbers are stick thin, so don't sweat it.
A few more comments: it sounds like you're determined to go to a weightlifting gym and that's what you should do if you want, but body weight exercises may be a good alternative. I use the little push-up handles (like Perfect Push Up but not as fancy), and especially if you elevate your legs, you can essentially achieve the same benefit as bench pressing moderate weights. Throw in some dips I do at the neighborhood playground, things like L-sits for core (also use the push up handles), and I feel pretty good to go.
As far as weightlifting for legs: I recall reading an old Horst book where he strongly recommended against doing that. Seeing as how I hated doing squats, that was easy advice for me to follow.
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sidepull
Sep 15, 2009, 7:10 PM
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Tactix, I think you're not going to get very good advice here. This is a technique and training forum and what you seem to want is physique training which is a very different focus.
That said, I would be surprised if you didn't see significant improvement in your "areas of weakness" by doing crossfit for 2 months.
Realize though that you have to carefully integrate training for climbing (gaining climbing strength and technique) with any sort of cross-training for climbing (injury prevention and muscle balance) otherwise you'll likely plateau and get frustrated from some form of over training.
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BenKenobi
Sep 15, 2009, 7:28 PM
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Tactix23 wrote: To be honest, I just personally feel I have shit chest genetics as when I did work out, that was by far the hardest area to gain size in. Now I'm starting to look a little silly that my shoulders are gaining great size from rock climbing. I would like to square out my chest and also work my legs and triceps which get neglected. Chest and tris I'm thinking incline/flat bench cable pullovers, incline flys, dips, tricep extension
If that is your normal chest routine, then that explains why you've never made good gains. You need to do some type of compound movement, e.g., bench press. Incline press puts less stress on your rotator cuff. Any type of press will also work your triceps.
Of course, none of this has much of anything to do with climbing.
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mleogrande
Sep 15, 2009, 8:06 PM
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I climb frequently and also weight train. I think it's good to keep balanced in strength between chest and back. Just make sure not to gain bulk unless you have goals outside of climbing. Also, just doing a push-up program or something like that would be good too. Just for reference, I'm a solid 5.12 climber.
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pfwein
Sep 15, 2009, 8:41 PM
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BenKenobi wrote: Tactix23 wrote: To be honest, I just personally feel I have shit chest genetics as when I did work out, that was by far the hardest area to gain size in. Now I'm starting to look a little silly that my shoulders are gaining great size from rock climbing. I would like to square out my chest and also work my legs and triceps which get neglected. Chest and tris I'm thinking incline/flat bench cable pullovers, incline flys, dips, tricep extension If that is your normal chest routine, then that explains why you've never made good gains. You need to do some type of compound movement, e.g., bench press. Incline press puts less stress on your rotator cuff. Any type of press will also work your triceps. Of course, none of this has much of anything to do with climbing.
This is a subtle point, but I think he meant to say that he will do incline and flat bench presses, not incline and flat bench pullovers, and he just forgot a comma.
Here is my reasoning:
note he just wrote incline flys, not incline bench flys.
Therefore, when he uses bench, he probably means bench press, which is not uncommon terminology.
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TerminalVelocity
Sep 15, 2009, 10:35 PM
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Your weight and lifting abilities would help to give you advice on chest and tri workouts. Also skip all the squats and that shit. Instead kill two birds with one stone. Do a true nordic ski machine with the incline high, to develop your leg size and strength while also improving cardio and leg endurance.
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Tactix23
Sep 16, 2009, 2:09 PM
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In reply to: If that is your normal chest routine, then that explains why you've never made good gains. You need to do some type of compound movement, e.g., bench press. Incline press puts less stress on your rotator cuff. Any type of press will also work your triceps. Of course, none of this has much of anything to do with climbing.
1) Incline bench press is a compound.... lol
2) I said I would do both flat and incline
3) That is a stereotypical classic body building chest workout with some things missing
4) Incline bench are one of the best exercises for upper chest
5) Yes, my triceps will get worked through bench. So what?
6) Yes, this has nothing to do with climbing. Other than the fact that I want to workout specific areas that aren't worked in climbing to EVEN MY BODY out
7) Flat bench is nowhere near the best exercise for chest. It is more of a full upper body lift. Pushups, flys etc are better for chest
(This post was edited by Tactix23 on Sep 16, 2009, 2:13 PM)
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Tactix23
Sep 16, 2009, 2:10 PM
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pfwein wrote: BenKenobi wrote: Tactix23 wrote: To be honest, I just personally feel I have shit chest genetics as when I did work out, that was by far the hardest area to gain size in. Now I'm starting to look a little silly that my shoulders are gaining great size from rock climbing. I would like to square out my chest and also work my legs and triceps which get neglected. Chest and tris I'm thinking incline/flat bench cable pullovers, incline flys, dips, tricep extension If that is your normal chest routine, then that explains why you've never made good gains. You need to do some type of compound movement, e.g., bench press. Incline press puts less stress on your rotator cuff. Any type of press will also work your triceps. Of course, none of this has much of anything to do with climbing. This is a subtle point, but I think he meant to say that he will do incline and flat bench presses, not incline and flat bench pullovers, and he just forgot a comma. Here is my reasoning: note he just wrote incline flys, not incline bench flys. Therefore, when he uses bench, he probably means bench press, which is not uncommon terminology.
correct. Although I'm still nervous the guy thought incline bench wasn't a compound exercise
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Tactix23
Sep 16, 2009, 2:11 PM
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TerminalVelocity wrote: Your weight and lifting abilities would help to give you advice on chest and tri workouts. Also skip all the squats and that shit. Instead kill two birds with one stone. Do a true nordic ski machine with the incline high, to develop your leg size and strength while also improving cardio and leg endurance.
Squats, when done properly, are one of the best exercises you can do. It works your entire body. It also gives you great core strength (balance 300 pounds on your shoulders?) which is very applicable to climbing.
It would be stupid of me not to do squats. Unless I had a bad back or a bad knee problem
(This post was edited by Tactix23 on Sep 16, 2009, 2:12 PM)
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sidepull
Sep 16, 2009, 2:41 PM
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this thread is only going to get better*
* better = worse, which is good**
** good = bad
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roy_hinkley_jr
Sep 16, 2009, 3:33 PM
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As usual, leave it to the crossfitters to prove they know nothing about training or physiology. They're just as bad as the chicks that lift pink dumbbells to "tone" --only at the opposite end of the scale. A crossfitter wouldn't know true functional strength even after it hit them upside the head. It's a shame because there are a few bits of wisdom in crosstraining but they water it down with so much nonsense that the good gets overwhelmed by the dogma.
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