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Major Accident on the zorro face
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dingus


Oct 5, 2009, 11:19 AM
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Re: Major Accident on the zorro face [In reply to]
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There are no stats to cite.

Its all opinion mates. Let's not lose sight of the fact we have no facts...

in my opinion lowering off sport routes after a lead is not just a little safer, but a LOT safer, for ME and mine.

Your mileage may vary. Its your ass - YOU protect it!

DMT


gblauer
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Oct 5, 2009, 11:39 AM
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Re: [dingus] Major Accident on the zorro face [In reply to]
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All,

I went to see Vanessa today. She is resting more comfortably now that they operated on her spine. She is still on pain medication, but, she is feeling better. She is a very strong woman and her spirits are good.

Unfortunately, just as I was leaving, her cardiologist conducted more tests on her aorta. It turns out that she may have damaged her aorta during the fall and the docs (real time/right now) are trying to figure out the next plan of action. If her aorta is damaged, she will have to immediately undergo open heart surgery to repair. Needless to say, Vanessa is upset and anxious.

Please send her your prayers and good thoughts. She is going to need them.

Gail


dingus


Oct 5, 2009, 11:46 AM
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Re: [gblauer] Major Accident on the zorro face [In reply to]
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gblauer wrote:
All,

I went to see Vanessa today. She is resting more comfortably now that they operated on her spine. She is still on pain medication, but, she is feeling better. She is a very strong woman and her spirits are good.

Unfortunately, just as I was leaving, her cardiologist conducted more tests on her aorta. It turns out that she may have damaged her aorta during the fall and the docs (real time/right now) are trying to figure out the next plan of action. If her aorta is damaged, she will have to immediately undergo open heart surgery to repair. Needless to say, Vanessa is upset and anxious.

Please send her your prayers and good thoughts. She is going to need them.

Gail

Thanks again glauber.

DMT


joeforte


Oct 5, 2009, 5:40 PM
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Re: [unrest] Major Accident on the zorro face [In reply to]
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unrest wrote:
I spent 2 days doing all sorts of self-rescue last week. I dedicated 6 hours each day to getting myself into and out of some text book snares. I had a TR anchor rigged with an ascender and a backup knot on my rear haul loop. I had backup knots ever 6 feet and I was on a seriously over-hung pitch. I had a dry-bag with 2 books by Leuben about climbing and rescue and I pretty much lived it out. I rigged some static lines that held bags with all my gear and I started with nothing and tried to solve the problems and only use gear and books when I was totally stumped.

A bunch of people formed an audience below and they were asking things like, "What are you doing?" and I'd answer, "Practicing self-rescue and accident avoidance." and some of the idiots were dumb enough to say, "Why?"

It was interesting. I've never learned so much in 2 days. I had a nice ledge I could do a short pendulum over to. It had water and anything else I needed. I could stand or sit comfortably.

I marvel at how little most climbers I meet know. I always ask people I climb with or near some basic questions?

1. Do you know how to ascend the rope if you fell off an overhang and couldn't climb it? If they say yes I ask them to explain in detail.

2. I say you are 4 pitches off the deck and you just dropped your rap device. Now what?

3. Your the leader and belaying from the top. Your partner just ate granite with his face when he fell tangled in the rope. How will you get to him?

4. Tell me how you would retreat off a 9 pitch climb, when you are half-way up on gear and a massive storm blows in?


I ask different questions too. Most people don't know how to build anchors. They have no clue how to answer 1-4. I never see people practicing stuff anywhere.

I'm not suprised at all by what I read. What surprises me and pisses me off are the times when I stop myself in the middle of doing something stupid.

I'm glad I know how to spot "stupid" and then back off. I see so many people who think "stupid" is right and off they go.

I watched a group of 6 climb TR on metolius sport bolts. These things will chew up a rope in no time. I walked over and asked, "Are you really belaying off the hangers?" (It's a climb I know well and that's suicide.) the guy looked at me and said, "I do it all the time. Not a big deal." I looked at him, his gear and his nearly black rope that used to be yellow. He had a sling, 2 lockers and a belay device and that was it. What was worse was 5 people with him were obviously new to the sport and he's getting them going on bad habits. If you consider that someday each of them might teach 5 people the same thing it gets a bit nauseating.

I get shit here all the time for wanting to haul a lot of gear and nobody asks why. I am constantly practicing safety (at least one day a week) and or something else. I haul it all up and try to get by on as little as possible in some scenarios knowing that some day I might have to self-rescue with only a shoe-lace. I can ascend a rope, escape a belay, bypass a knot, lock off a partner and a few other things using just a shoelace. Why? Because I practice the weird McGyver shit knowing that someday it might be a piece of duct tape, a piece of gum and a bottle of bug spray that somehow saves my ass.

It's terrifying that I don't see people practicing rescue. It's really bad that most people have no idea how to do some basic rescue stuff.

That's nice, but what does self rescue have to do with this accident?


ClimbClimb


Oct 5, 2009, 7:06 PM
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Re: [joeforte] Major Accident on the zorro face [In reply to]
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joeforte wrote:
That's nice, but what does self rescue have to do with this accident?

I actually think it does have something to do with it -- although not in the way intended. Despite all these extra skills & experience, often it is the simplest mistake (like not making sure one is connected to anchor) that leads to injury or death.

Once heard a sad story about a top-notch biker who suffered serious brain damage after falling off a bike on a street in front of his house, while not doing anything particularly dangerous. Bad things happen. Preparation is good, but it can also fool us into ignoring the basics.


unrest


Oct 5, 2009, 9:02 PM
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Re: [joeforte] Major Accident on the zorro face [In reply to]
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Taking time to learn what is safe and what isn't will allow you to spot problems before they develop. When you are practicing safety (not just self-rescue) it gets you mindful of what isn't safe.

I see people charge up a climb and clean off gear and they don't practice the simplest life saving thing. When I'm on a rope and ascending or lowering, doing anything besides climbing I set up an autoblock. In the case of this accident an autoblock would have prevented the situation completely. If you wrap both strands with an autoblock prior to starting a rappel you can rig the rappel wrong and get a 2nd chance to rig it right.

Familiarity on a rope disciplines you to habits. An autoblock is one habit many climbers lack. It would save many, many rescues if climbers had a solid grasp of the basics. Always backup your anchors. Always backup your rappel. You never place one cam on a climb. Well sometimes you have no choice but then your name is Dave McCleod. Generally you place cams and stoppers to make your protection redundant. Climbing is about redundant safety.

Practicing rescue gives you skills that span well beyond rescue. You learn to appreciate the things that can kill you and to take them more seriously.

YMMV. I practice all sorts of stuff so that I can spot the dangerous stuff and fix it or back it up.


notapplicable


Oct 5, 2009, 10:06 PM
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Re: [unrest] Major Accident on the zorro face [In reply to]
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unrest wrote:
Always backup your rappel.

No, no I won't. Not always.

Sorry


jakedatc


Oct 5, 2009, 10:37 PM
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Re: [notapplicable] Major Accident on the zorro face [In reply to]
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while sport climbing i never do.. if i can see the ground i never do.. slab nope...

what i do do is weight my rap before taking the sling i'm attached to a bolt with off. same with lowering. i take up so my sling isn't weighted then have them lower me.


jnm1


Oct 5, 2009, 11:45 PM
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Re: [gblauer] Major Accident on the zorro face [In reply to]
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gblauer
If she hasn't read it already it might be good for her to pick up Lynn Hills' Climbing Free
In the first couple chapters she talks about her fall and recovery.
Or if she's still at the Reading Hospital I'll send her a copy.

There's a preview here:
http://books.google.com/...e&q=&f=false


gblauer
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Oct 6, 2009, 4:31 AM
Post #116 of 175 (1742 views)
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Re: [jnm1] Major Accident on the zorro face [In reply to]
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jnm1 wrote:
gblauer
If she hasn't read it already it might be good for her to pick up Lynn Hills' Climbing Free
In the first couple chapters she talks about her fall and recovery.
Or if she's still at the Reading Hospital I'll send her a copy.

There's a preview here:
http://books.google.com/...e&q=&f=false

That's funny, I gave it to her yesterday!


gblauer
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Oct 6, 2009, 7:43 AM
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Good news, after additional testing the docs have determined that Vanessa's aorta was undamaged in the fall. No open heart surgery is planned.

Now she just has to get better.

Please PM me if you are local to PHL and would like to visit. I will give you directions.

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