The other day, while climbing High Exposure at the Gunks, a guy commented on my rack and said "that's a big rack you have". The rack I bring to climb most of the routes (95%) in the North East is the following :
The only "true" double I have is the pink tricam. I mention "true" because the 3 offset aliens in a sense double the red, yellow, green and blue
So is my rack a big one or average or right size ?
ps : I known rack size depend on a lot of thing, level of comfort, experience, if you like plugging lots of protection,. But I mention this is the rack I use on 95% of the routes without removing anything even on ever climb.
edit add picture of my rack
(This post was edited by out_rock on Oct 15, 2009, 1:09 AM)
Your rack is not adequate for you wife. Yea, but I took care of that for ya. Say thanks. Now tell her I want my money back. Now I have a red spot under my toe> WTF
Doesn't seem big to me. I think they were really thinking, "By god, that's a lot of tricams. Why would anyone do that to their second." Or something like that.
That's pretty much a standard Gunks rack with a few extra tricams, really not that big. You probably didn't need all of it on High E, but really, how much gear you carry and place is a personal thing.
Next time just say "I place it all down low and make my second haul it up, he needs the exercise."
One thing you might think about is paring it down as the difficulty of the climb decreases. For most climbs 4 or more grades below onsight level I start with a base of -
1 biner medium nuts 1 biner large nuts 3-4 select cams
From there I build as difficulty increases -
+1 grade = adding 2-3 cams +2 grades = adding 1 biner micro nuts and 2 tricams +3 grades = adding 2-3 cams onsight level or above = Full rack
Obviously some climbs have specific protection requirements so you take what you need but this allows you to travel light but safe.
Climbing rack size is so personal and it will change over time. The stronger your climbing gets the smaller your dependence on gear will become. I get sick of dudes that can place gear while dangling from a pinkie on a 5.13d overhang telling a new trad climber his rack is farking too big. Sure it is you nitwit. You are now experience enough to know when, where and how much gear to place. You'll bomber a delicate cruxy runout just below you. You'll climb a 30 ft. 5.9 crack with maybe a piece here and possibly there.
Newer trad climbers that are still shaping their art will carry more gear. It doesn't make them dumb-asses it makes them safe (To a degree. Too much gear and that safety line blurs a lot.).
I'd suggest paying more attention to your placements. Put a small piece of tape (edge folded over to make removal easier) on your gear in a place you can pull it off. When you place that piece pull the tape off. At then end of pitch note which gear still has tape. You'll begin to see a pattern. Drop your peeled off tape and you'll soon see a pattern of pissed off people so just shove it in a pocket or something convenient.
It sounds a bit dumb but it will make you more mindful of the pieces you favor. If you placed all of that on a pitch then we'll call you a ninnie and laugh at your manicures. :) My guess is you'll only ever use 1/4th of all that stuff and a pattern will emerge.
Pay attention and trim your rack a bit. This may take some time but it's worth it to build your experience up.
My first leader wouldn't let me place anything that I couldn't make happen with a doubled set of stoppers. Over and over that's all I could use. After stoppers became my go-to he introduced a set of mid-range cams (4 I believe) he encouraged me to try and only use 2. Over time I developed a bit of a feel for gear and I could sort a rack right quick.
For fun I'll sometimes climb only with hexes, only with cams on climbs I know really well. It's amazing how much overlap there is in pieces like a hexentric and a wired nut but there is. However you'll soon see that a hex can do some things that are desirable.
Rack-envy and rack-spray will always be found everywhere. Pack at your comfort level and get to the point where less is more.
Oct 14, 2009, 6:08 PM
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That rack seems heavy on the finger sizes but that might be what's appropriate to your area. I know that there are a lot of routes in Squamish that your rack wouldn't be much use for since they take a lot of hand and fist sized pieces. If you travel you might find that your rack will change by quite a bit.
You can plug it all into the spadout.com rack simulator and it will spit out a histogram of the number of pieces at each size.
One thing you might think about is paring it down as the difficulty of the climb decreases. For most climbs 4 or more grades below onsight level I start with a base of -
1 biner medium nuts 1 biner large nuts 3-4 select cams
From there I build as difficulty increases -
+1 grade = adding 2-3 cams +2 grades = adding 1 biner micro nuts and 2 tricams +3 grades = adding 2-3 cams onsight level or above = Full rack
Obviously some climbs have specific protection requirements so you take what you need but this allows you to travel light but safe.
I do the opposite, I pare down my rack when I climb harder routes.
One thing you might think about is paring it down as the difficulty of the climb decreases. For most climbs 4 or more grades below onsight level I start with a base of -
1 biner medium nuts 1 biner large nuts 3-4 select cams
From there I build as difficulty increases -
+1 grade = adding 2-3 cams +2 grades = adding 1 biner micro nuts and 2 tricams +3 grades = adding 2-3 cams onsight level or above = Full rack
Obviously some climbs have specific protection requirements so you take what you need but this allows you to travel light but safe.
I do the opposite, I pare down my rack when I climb harder routes.
If I know the beta I do as well, if I'm onsighting I prefer not to worry about rationing gear and just focusing on the climbing.
(This post was edited by notapplicable on Oct 14, 2009, 6:40 PM)
One thing you might think about is paring it down as the difficulty of the climb decreases. For most climbs 4 or more grades below onsight level I start with a base of -
1 biner medium nuts 1 biner large nuts 3-4 select cams
From there I build as difficulty increases -
+1 grade = adding 2-3 cams +2 grades = adding 1 biner micro nuts and 2 tricams +3 grades = adding 2-3 cams onsight level or above = Full rack
Obviously some climbs have specific protection requirements so you take what you need but this allows you to travel light but safe.
I do the opposite, I pare down my rack when I climb harder routes.
If I know the beta I do as well, if I'm onsighting I prefer not to worry about rationing gear and just focusing on the climbing.
I just give the climb a good look, and go to it from there. It sucks to be wrong though. One time I got on this route that was protected by horizontals that looked really small from the ground, so I didn't bring anything above an orange tcu. All of the horizontals were .75 BD and above .
One thing you might think about is paring it down as the difficulty of the climb decreases. For most climbs 4 or more grades below onsight level I start with a base of -
1 biner medium nuts 1 biner large nuts 3-4 select cams
From there I build as difficulty increases -
+1 grade = adding 2-3 cams +2 grades = adding 1 biner micro nuts and 2 tricams +3 grades = adding 2-3 cams onsight level or above = Full rack
Obviously some climbs have specific protection requirements so you take what you need but this allows you to travel light but safe.
I do the opposite, I pare down my rack when I climb harder routes.
If I know the beta I do as well, if I'm onsighting I prefer not to worry about rationing gear and just focusing on the climbing.
I just give the climb a good look, and go to it from there. It sucks to be wrong though. One time I got on this route that was protected by horizontals that looked really small from the ground, so I didn't bring anything above an orange tcu. All of the horizontals were .75 BD and above .
You were quick on the reply, I was already editing my post to say basically that.
What I described is essentially my approach to multipitch. If I have a few hundred feet of climbing ahead of me, the odds are I'm gonna need the whole grab bag. For single pitch stuff I try to customize as much as possible and only carry what I need.
One thing you might think about is paring it down as the difficulty of the climb decreases. For most climbs 4 or more grades below onsight level I start with a base of -
1 biner medium nuts 1 biner large nuts 3-4 select cams
From there I build as difficulty increases -
+1 grade = adding 2-3 cams +2 grades = adding 1 biner micro nuts and 2 tricams +3 grades = adding 2-3 cams onsight level or above = Full rack
Obviously some climbs have specific protection requirements so you take what you need but this allows you to travel light but safe.
I do the opposite, I pare down my rack when I climb harder routes.
If I know the beta I do as well, if I'm onsighting I prefer not to worry about rationing gear and just focusing on the climbing.
I just give the climb a good look, and go to it from there. It sucks to be wrong though. One time I got on this route that was protected by horizontals that looked really small from the ground, so I didn't bring anything above an orange tcu. All of the horizontals were .75 BD and above .
You were quick on the reply, I was already editing my post to say basically that.
What I described is essentially my approach to multipitch. If I have a few hundred feet of climbing ahead of me, the odds are I'm gonna need the whole grab bag. For single pitch stuff I try to customize as much as possible and only carry what I need.
I am the same way, If I am doing a multipitch route with gear anchors, I bring it all. I am quick because I am writing a paper, and posting helps me procrastinate.
One thing you might think about is paring it down as the difficulty of the climb decreases. For most climbs 4 or more grades below onsight level I start with a base of -
1 biner medium nuts 1 biner large nuts 3-4 select cams
From there I build as difficulty increases -
+1 grade = adding 2-3 cams +2 grades = adding 1 biner micro nuts and 2 tricams +3 grades = adding 2-3 cams onsight level or above = Full rack
Obviously some climbs have specific protection requirements so you take what you need but this allows you to travel light but safe.
Excellent idea, I never thought of that, maybe I am just too lazy and take the whole rack ! With the weight, it keeps you in shape . !
Considering you have at least 4 pieces of the same size through the most common Gunks crack sizes, yea, I'd say you have a vary large rack.
Or look at it this way - you are carrying 36 pieces of gear. Have you ever placed even half that number on a single pitch? (I know...gear anchor, blah blah. OK so it's ONLY 33 pieces)
Considering you have at least 4 pieces of the same size through the most common Gunks crack sizes, yea, I'd say you have a vary large rack.
I'm not 100% on Alien sizes, but he doesn't seem too heavy on the small gear. Often I'll carry two blue and two yellow Metolious cams.
The yellow is a little redundant because it's close to the same size as a pink tri-cam (but I tend to find a ton of finger sized placements), but I love having two blues.
The main thing I'd probably trim down is the number of the medium sized tri-cams he's carrying, but that's not a huge deal.
Just be happy that he's not carrying a full double rack that too many people think are required for areas like the Gunks!
Considering you have at least 4 pieces of the same size through the most common Gunks crack sizes, yea, I'd say you have a vary large rack.
Or look at it this way - you are carrying 36 pieces of gear. Have you ever placed even half that number on a single pitch? (I know...gear anchor, blah blah. OK so it's ONLY 33 pieces)
Yep, I used over 21 pieces on my first trip up Madam G's when I was a 5.6 leader. Nowadays I don't use nearly as much gear, but I can still easily use 20 pieces as I'm usually protecting two seconds.
The six smallest nuts don't really count as pro, but they're light enough so there's no point in removing them from the rack, and you can always use them as oppositional pieces.
So yeah, it's a slightly bigger rack than normal. Of course it's not as small as those who've got every route wired and know exactly how much gear they need for a particular route. Not as thin as some who knows they can run it out. It's definitely not a big as some who bring double C4s .3-3, doubles aliens B-O, two sets of stoppers, full set of hexes and 30 draws...
Considering you have at least 4 pieces of the same size through the most common Gunks crack sizes, yea, I'd say you have a vary large rack.
Or look at it this way - you are carrying 36 pieces of gear. Have you ever placed even half that number on a single pitch? (I know...gear anchor, blah blah. OK so it's ONLY 33 pieces)
Yep, I used over 21 pieces on my first trip up Madam G's when I was a 5.6 leader. Nowadays I don't use nearly as much gear, but I can still easily use 20 pieces as I'm usually protecting two seconds.
My question was directed at the OP. He was one who wanted feedback on his rack. The fact that you or I have placed 20+ pieces on a pitch, while it justifies what we carry, may not relate to his climbing.
(This post was edited by gunkiemike on Oct 15, 2009, 9:02 PM)
Considering you have at least 4 pieces of the same size through the most common Gunks crack sizes, yea, I'd say you have a vary large rack.
Or look at it this way - you are carrying 36 pieces of gear. Have you ever placed even half that number on a single pitch? (I know...gear anchor, blah blah. OK so it's ONLY 33 pieces)
Yep, I used over 21 pieces on my first trip up Madam G's when I was a 5.6 leader. Nowadays I don't use nearly as much gear, but I can still easily use 20 pieces as I'm usually protecting two seconds...
21 on a pitch? or total? last time I was up there (last week) there was so much (recent looking) fixed gear (especiallyp2) that there wasn't that much to place.
I'd be interested to know how often you really place those offset aliens at the gunks?
My standard gunks rack is pretty much the same minus 6 of those tri-cams and all the offsets.
Hi John,
I place my offset frequently (1 on 2 pitches). Specially the Red-Yellow and Yellow-Green. In a non-parallel crack, I always place the offset, they just fit perfectly,
(This post was edited by out_rock on Oct 19, 2009, 3:54 AM)
Considering you have at least 4 pieces of the same size through the most common Gunks crack sizes, yea, I'd say you have a vary large rack.
Or look at it this way - you are carrying 36 pieces of gear. Have you ever placed even half that number on a single pitch? (I know...gear anchor, blah blah. OK so it's ONLY 33 pieces)
Yep, I used over 21 pieces on my first trip up Madam G's when I was a 5.6 leader. Nowadays I don't use nearly as much gear, but I can still easily use 20 pieces as I'm usually protecting two seconds.
My question was directed at the OP. He was one who wanted feedback on his rack. The fact that you or I have placed 20+ pieces on a pitch, while it justifies what we carry, may not relate to his climbing.
Well I never places 18 protections (36 pieces / 2), but one time I placed 15 protections on a long pitch of 55m . The thing is that I'd rather have some bandwidth in the selection of protection.
I don't think you need the offsets or the micronuts for most things, and although the nuts don't take up a ton of weight on a rack they are just largely not needed. You could also get away with pink, red brown and blue as your only tricams. I prefer to have doubles in the .5 to 2 cam range for versatility on a climb and anchors, but if you want to double up by using tricams I see no fault in that.
Get rid of the offset cams and the small tri-cams, and double up the 1 and 2 camalot, perhaps add a #4 camalot, and you have a basic yosemite trad rack.
Of course, really just depends on the area and the climb. Bottom anchor, 55 meter pitch and top anchor? Wide cracks? Sustained tips crack? 10+ pitches with all of the above? Just depends.
Personally, I climb quicker with doubles because I spend less time rationing gear -- I try somewhat not to place the "double" if I have another readily available option, and then if I really need that size up higher I've got it. Or, maybe the double ends up as part of the belay...
I had someone say the same thing to me once -- "you won't place all that". My response was "yeah, probably rack differently the second time I climb it."
Trying to be better about jotting down gear notes in the margins of the guide book...
BITD my partner and I used to go to the Gunks with about 10 wired nuts, 6-9 hexes on perlon, and 4 tri-cams (2 pink, 2 red) -- and a shoulder full of knotted slings. Of course, these days, we have more stuff and carry it b/c you never know what's going to fit where. But back when we were young and poor, the climbing was a lot more adventurous!!
But to answer the OP's question: just carry what you want and what makes you feel safe.
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