A few years ago a friend of mine told me it is best to avoid clipping nuts with a wire gate. I never really thought much more of it but was just playing around with some, and it does indeed seem to be the case that a wire gate biner on a thin wire unclips more easily then a solid gate.

Any experience with this? Do people try to avoid clipping wires with wire gates?

A few years ago a friend of mine told me it is best to avoid clipping nuts with a wire gate. I never really thought much more of it but was just playing around with some, and it does indeed seem to be the case that a wire gate biner on a thin wire unclips more easily then a solid gate.

Any experience with this? Do people try to avoid clipping wires with wire gates?

That said, I have never heard of it happening with increased frequency and I have never experienced it myself so I guess I'm doubtful. An interesting question though. I wonder if any of the major manufacturer have made their testing practices and results available concerning this particular "issue".

Wasn't the big "home run" for the wire gate that it fixed gate flutter?

That and not freezing up but I'm thinking that gate flutter (which is a function of interactions between the biner and gate and how energy is transmitted between the two) and the actual interaction between the gate and another material (rope, webbing or cable) impacting it is different question altogether.

Yeah you are right. I was just trying to understand the benefits of wiregates (easy clip, flutter, weight) over standard solid gate biners.

It does kind of stand the potential especially with micronuts and smaller wires that they could possibly edge under the gate and get out. That said, I love my wire gates and use them 100%. When I think about it all my trad draws are solid gates at the piece (nut, stopper, cam, whatever) and are wiregates at the rope. I've always liked having my draws (quickdraws included) set up like that.

I'm not going to lose sleep over this one though. Guess I don't really have to the way I run my draws though.

For the sake of playing devils advocate though, you did mention "easier clipping" as one benefit to a wire gate. Is it possible that the same properties which make them easier to clip would translate to a greater tendency to unclip in a backclipping or similar scenario?

No. They're easier to clip because of ergonomics, specifically the way our thumb and fingers interact with the gate.

I think that the reason why wiregates are easier to clip is because the rope hooks into the notch between the nose and the gate easily like the basket of a bent gate. There is no reason to think that this would also make them easier to unclip.

I think the issue with clipping wires would be the same as for using wiregates on bolts in that the gap at the notch in the nose can get hooked up on the wire or the bolt if it's the thin type. I believe that this has resulted in a few broken biners on bolts but I haven't heard of any problems on wires. It also might not be an issue for the notchless wiregates.

Is it possible that the same properties which make them easier to clip would translate to a greater tendency to unclip in a backclipping or similar scenario?

I could see that yes. I think there are trade-offs for everything. I mean really we could be "bomber" if we put lockers on every piece.

A few years ago a friend of mine told me it is best to avoid clipping nuts with a wire gate. I never really thought much more of it but was just playing around with some, and it does indeed seem to be the case that a wire gate biner on a thin wire unclips more easily then a solid gate.

Any experience with this? Do people try to avoid clipping wires with wire gates?

damn near lost half my stoppers off my rack once because i had 'em racked on a wiregate. i keep them on a BD positron these days. i had heard the same thing, but scoffed at it just days prior.

dingus is right, though- once off the rack, i see no issue with clipping a wire with a wiregate- the torque needed to unclip it just isnt there once the stopper is places (or really shouldnt be there!)

The standard solid gate oval has always been and will always be the best racking biner for a set of nuts. And unless you're a klutz, you can carry a full set racked on a single biner. If you have doubles then split them up.

[Inline bd_oval.jpg]

Yes, I know they're a bit heavy, but its just one biner...

Dingus, you haven't had an older biner get "lazy" and not be springy?

Nope. Keylock gated biners are superior for racking nuts in every way. Sorry.

DMT

Well, to each their own, but I have to disagree with you there brother. The keylocks lack the tooth, which despite being a pain in the ass most of the time, has kept me from dropping nuts more than once. The cable catches on the tooth, giving you one last chance to grab that sucker before it goes airborn.