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RA100


Dec 30, 2009, 2:51 AM
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The self coached climber
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HI.
Does any one know if book in title exists in pdf form?
Thnx.


beton


Dec 30, 2009, 3:58 AM
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RA100 wrote:
HI.
Does any one know if book in title exists in pdf form?
Thnx.
I would like to add : Is it worth buying this book, .. do you generally recommend it?


saxfiend


Dec 30, 2009, 4:36 AM
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beton wrote:
RA100 wrote:
HI.
Does any one know if book in title exists in pdf form?
Thnx.
I would like to add : Is it worth buying this book, .. do you generally recommend it?
SCC is an excellent training resource, very much worth buying. Since the authors are presumably looking to get compensated for the effort they put into this book, I seriously doubt you're going to get it for free in PDF form.

JL


gblauer
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Dec 30, 2009, 5:07 AM
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It's a great book and it's worth purchasing.

My training partner and I followed a program largely influenced by their book and we both jumped a full number grade in our leading abilities.


sidepull


Dec 30, 2009, 5:25 AM
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Re: [gblauer] The self coached climber [In reply to]
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Buy it.

Almost every question posted in the training forum could be answered with "get a copy of the self-coached climber." It's that good. Should be standard reading - handed out with gym memberships.

http://www.amazon.com/Self-Coached-Climber-Movement-Training-Performance/dp/0811733394/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1262179444&sr=8-1


naitch


Dec 30, 2009, 5:47 AM
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I think one or both of the authors are on this forum.

Even if it did exist in PDF form (probably illegally), it wouldn't have the DVD that comes with it which is a wonderful resource showing what the text talks about re techniques and exercises. Probably this book and The Rock Warrior's Way are two of the best on technique and training (physical and mental)


bkalaska


Dec 30, 2009, 6:08 AM
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It is worth every penny to buy in book form. OPlus you will be taking it with you everywhere when you first get it.


beton


Dec 30, 2009, 6:32 AM
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I was seriously considering to buy it anyway, .. but this thread just made me put the actual order. I'm looking forward to read and experience it firsthand.


mr.tastycakes


Dec 30, 2009, 8:28 AM
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step 1: buy it.
step 2: read it.
step 3: reflect on what a fucking joke the training forum is, in comparison.


saxfiend


Dec 30, 2009, 9:01 AM
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mr.tastycakes wrote:
step 3: reflect on what a fucking joke the training forum is, in comparison.
As opposed to the high-quality content in the rest of rc.com?

JL


mr.tastycakes


Dec 30, 2009, 9:17 AM
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mr.tastycakes wrote:
step 3: reflect on what a fucking joke the training forum is as a source of training information, in comparison to the Self-Coached Climber.

fixt


saxfiend


Dec 30, 2009, 9:48 AM
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mr.tastycakes wrote:
mr.tastycakes wrote:
step 3: reflect on what a fucking joke the training forum is as a source of training information, in comparison to the Self-Coached Climber.

fixt
Oh, I got that the first time. I was just making a snide remark about the general lameness of this site.

JL


mr.tastycakes


Dec 30, 2009, 9:56 AM
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oh, my mistake. carry on!


onceahardman


Dec 30, 2009, 4:31 PM
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mr.tastycakes wrote:
step 1: buy it.
step 2: read it.
step 3: reflect on what a fucking joke the training forum is, in comparison.

I think SCC is a truly great book. If your goal is to get from 5.9 to 5.10...11...12...13, you could probably not make a better investment.

I'm not sure about getting to 5.14 or more, because I just don't know anything about what that means. I suspect the book wouldn't help as much at those levels, but I really don't know.

The real reason I responded, though, is your #3. Rather than squawk about how poorly you perceive some who post here, why not strive to improve it? This is your site. Its as good as you make it.

I know I always read aerili's posts, and I think she has made the training forums better, and certainly more informed and accurate. I have tried to do the same in the injury forum, and I'd like to think the quality has improved there as well.

Bitching and flaming just decrease the signal-to-noise ratio. There is some good stuff here, you just have to search it out.


unrooted


Jan 28, 2010, 10:38 AM
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Does this book have much on injury diagnosis and prevention? What about lifting weights?


seatbeltpants


Jan 28, 2010, 10:57 AM
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unrooted wrote:
Does this book have much on injury diagnosis and prevention? What about lifting weights?

"no" and "no", off the top of my head. to cover off on these i reckon you should check out http://www.amazon.com/One-Move-Too-Many-Understand/dp/3928026208

steve


dugl33


Jan 28, 2010, 10:58 AM
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naitch wrote:
I think one or both of the authors are on this forum.

Even if it did exist in PDF form (probably illegally), it wouldn't have the DVD that comes with it which is a wonderful resource showing what the text talks about re techniques and exercises. Probably this book and The Rock Warrior's Way are two of the best on technique and training (physical and mental)

Plenty of things can be legally downloaded in PDF format, just like you can legally download music files. Video files are also downloadable. "King Lines" video, for example, can be downloaded. Supertopo books can be downloaded in PDF. I guess maybe you're referring to bootleg scanned PDFs(?)

Legal, yes. Free, no. I've never seen a PDF format for SCC, but I've never really looked.

Regarding other posts... yes SCC is good, perhaps supplemented with Eric Horsts "Conditioning for Climbing" for those who want more coverage of injury prevention, resistance training etc. SCC is probably the best discussion on COG and how it relates to movement that I've seen, and Conditioning for Climbing is extensive on training...

As far as "Rock Warriors Way" goes, I'm a bit on the fence. I'm sure its helpful for many, but for me there wasn't much in it I hadn't figured out for myself.


seatbeltpants


Jan 28, 2010, 11:00 AM
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holy shit, amazon seems to think one move too many will cost you US$76. the book is great, but that's insane.

steve


lena_chita
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Jan 28, 2010, 11:07 AM
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unrooted wrote:
Does this book have much on injury diagnosis and prevention? What about lifting weights?

No.


jt512


Jan 28, 2010, 12:36 PM
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seatbeltpants wrote:
holy shit, amazon seems to think one move too many will cost you US$76. the book is great, but that's insane.

steve

You can literally buy that book from the vending machine in the gym I go to.

Jay


k.l.k


Jan 28, 2010, 12:53 PM
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seatbeltpants wrote:
holy shit, amazon seems to think one move too many will cost you US$76. the book is great, but that's insane.

imported medical textbook translated from german = $

and altho it's still the best on the subject in english, it's dated. it was 1990s research, published in german in 2003.

but the authors have continued publishing in med journals, including some eng. lang. stuff, so you can look up the more recent papers if you have a uni subscription.


eric_k


Feb 5, 2010, 11:48 AM
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I was looking at getting for this book, but the book used book store in town does not have this but it does have Training for Climbing by Eric Horst I think. Is SCC a better guide than training for climbing?


chill41


Feb 5, 2010, 1:28 PM
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Both Training for Climbing and SCC have plenty of value, but in my opinion you get waaay more in terms of movement and physical training info from SCC. I'm not sure what Horst's background is, but Dan and Doug have coached dozens (hundreds maybe?) of climbers over the years. It shows in the methodical and even scientific approach they take to training in the book.

There's a lot to like in SCC: large variety of exercises with varying rep and set targets (depending on the goals of the specific exercise), descriptions of balance, technique tricks, theories of training, physiology info and training plans.

One thing that isn't talked about much is cross-training and injury prevention; for those topics I think TFC does a better job. That kind of stuff is pretty basic though, at least in my opinion: listen to your body, take plenty of rest days, and do oppositional exercises twice a week to keep your tendons happy as you get stronger.

If you're gonna buy one training book, do yourself a favor and make it the Self-Coached Climber. It's been the only thing getting me off the couch and in to the gym this winter.


k.l.k


Feb 5, 2010, 4:33 PM
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eric_k wrote:
I was looking at getting for this book, but the book used book store in town does not have this but it does have Training for Climbing by Eric Horst I think. Is SCC a better guide than training for climbing?

http://www.abebooks.com/...mber&x=0&y=0


Grizvok


Feb 5, 2010, 5:15 PM
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Just buy the book.


jt512


Feb 5, 2010, 6:15 PM
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eric_k wrote:
I was looking at getting for this book, but the book used book store in town does not have this but it does have Training for Climbing by Eric Horst I think. Is SCC a better guide than training for climbing?

Yes.


Potts875


Feb 7, 2010, 1:28 PM
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In reply to:
I WROTE.... I've pretty much realized that this book doesn't do ANYTHING for me. Theres no ego involved, but 99% of the stuff in this book I know from practice and I could care less about the theory behind it. I've never seen such a boring book about ANY sport. I was so psyched to get it in the mail and it's going to basically just sit on the dresser.

If anyone wants it just toss $25 in my paypal account and i'll send it this week. PM me if interested.

Here come the I dont no shit flames about me not knowing what I'm talking about. For newer climbers I'd go ALL THE WAY BACK to Performance Rock Climbing. I cant imagine a new climber being remotely interested in the way this book is written. I also cant imagine anyone that climbs harder than 5.11 doesnt have a firm understanding of the techniques discussed in this book.


jt512


Feb 7, 2010, 1:39 PM
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Potts875 wrote:
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I WROTE.... I've pretty much realized that this book doesn't do ANYTHING for me. Theres no ego involved, but 99% of the stuff in this book I know from practice and I could care less about the theory behind it. I've never seen such a boring book about ANY sport. I was so psyched to get it in the mail and it's going to basically just sit on the dresser.

If anyone wants it just toss $25 in my paypal account and i'll send it this week. PM me if interested.

Here come the I dont no shit flames about me not knowing what I'm talking about. For newer climbers I'd go ALL THE WAY BACK to Performance Rock Climbing. I cant imagine a new climber being remotely interested in the way this book is written. I also cant imagine anyone that climbs harder than 5.11 doesnt have a firm understanding of the techniques discussed in this book.

I was climbing harder than 5.11 and had absolutely no notion of the concepts in SCC. The book completely changed the way I think about climbing, movement, and training.

Jay


Potts875


Feb 7, 2010, 2:13 PM
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In reply to:
I had absolutely no notion of the concepts in SCC

Really Jay? No notion? What the hell were you doing before the book then? You didnt know COG, inside and outside flags, back steps, drop knees and the way these all changed the way you stayed on the rock.

You weren't aware of proper footwork, silent feet or glued hands? You werent aware of your subtle movements and why they worked? Momentum? Lock offs? I find that hard to believe that someone climbing 5.11 or higher got there by luck.


(This post was edited by Potts875 on Feb 7, 2010, 2:16 PM)


jt512


Feb 7, 2010, 3:03 PM
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Potts875 wrote:
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I had absolutely no notion of the concepts in SCC

Really Jay? No notion? What the hell were you doing before the book then? You didnt know COG, inside and outside flags, back steps, drop knees and the way these all changed the way you stayed on the rock.

You weren't aware of proper footwork, silent feet or glued hands? You werent aware of your subtle movements and why they worked? Momentum? Lock offs? I find that hard to believe that someone climbing 5.11 or higher got there by luck.

I would estimate that before the book was published less than one American 5.12 climber in 100 was aware of the movement initiation concepts in the book. I didn't learn to climb 5.12 by "luck"; I learned to climb 5.12 inefficiently.

Jay


lena_chita
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Feb 7, 2010, 4:16 PM
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Potts875 wrote:
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I WROTE.... I've pretty much realized that this book doesn't do ANYTHING for me. Theres no ego involved, but 99% of the stuff in this book I know from practice and I could care less about the theory behind it. I've never seen such a boring book about ANY sport. I was so psyched to get it in the mail and it's going to basically just sit on the dresser.

If anyone wants it just toss $25 in my paypal account and i'll send it this week. PM me if interested.

Here come the I dont no shit flames about me not knowing what I'm talking about. For newer climbers I'd go ALL THE WAY BACK to Performance Rock Climbing. I cant imagine a new climber being remotely interested in the way this book is written. I also cant imagine anyone that climbs harder than 5.11 doesnt have a firm understanding of the techniques discussed in this book.

Well, by the time I picked up SCC, I definitely had an understanding of what flagging, backstepping, and other basic techniques were. So the chapters and parts of the DVD describing these techniques were not particularly novel.

However, while I didn't need the book to tell me about pivoting/turning, flagging ,and other basics, the COG and movement initiation discussion was useful to me because no one else talked about it from that viewpoint, and it made sense to me (and a big difference in my climbing). And also, while I knew about a lot of techniques, reading the book made me practice them in a more regimented fasion, and again, I believe it was beneficial to me.

Also, I really enjoyed reading the chaprers YOU refer to as boring because I was interested in the background of WHY you need to train particuar things, and how. Different attitudes to learning, I guess.

And finally, the thing I found most useful in practical terms was the chapters that outlined the training plans. There is a difference betwen just knowing that there are such things as 4x4s, or laps, or threshold bouldering, or what not, and putting them together in some sort of intelligent training plan.


ceebo


Feb 7, 2010, 5:08 PM
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Potts875 wrote:
In reply to:
I had absolutely no notion of the concepts in SCC

Really Jay? No notion? What the hell were you doing before the book then? You didnt know COG, inside and outside flags, back steps, drop knees and the way these all changed the way you stayed on the rock.

You weren't aware of proper footwork, silent feet or glued hands? You werent aware of your subtle movements and why they worked? Momentum? Lock offs? I find that hard to believe that someone climbing 5.11 or higher got there by luck.

I can put my hand up to that. I climbed with 1 person who knew as much as me about it.. befor we could say boo we was having real decent attempts at 7a's. I never actually realised the moves i was doing had names untill i visited this site.. and as cocky as it may sound i just figured i/we had made them up for each paticular route.

Im looking forward to seing whats in this book and im hoping very much it will boost us into the 7's

I use to think i had good technique but i got shown a trick or 2 not long ago and i realised i have nothing but brute strength, and its not enuf


(This post was edited by ceebo on Feb 7, 2010, 5:12 PM)


Potts875


Feb 7, 2010, 8:56 PM
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jt512 wrote:
I would estimate that before the book was published less than one American 5.12 climber in 100 was aware of the movement initiation concepts in the book. I didn't learn to climb 5.12 by "luck"; I learned to climb 5.12 inefficiently. Jay


1% of people climbing 5.12 are/were unaware of these concepts before the book? That's just a silly statement. Pull out some old vids before the book was written then tell me if you still think thats true.

Now I understand that everyone climbs 5.12 now but it's still a difficult grade. IMHO I think that if you get there without the tools then breaking into 13 is going to be extremely hard. With that being said I think this is a great instruction book for teachers. I wish I had something like this to develop lesson plans and such when I ran classes.


While we're on it....Whats the deal with Warriors Way?


codral


Feb 20, 2013, 6:03 PM
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Sorry to bump an old thread here but...

Did anyone ever find any website that sells the epub or pdf for this book? Or an app?

There's a app out by hague but it's for redpointing, soo yeh.

I really don't want to buy it on paper if I don't absolutely have to... Just so damn inconvenient!


danabart


Feb 20, 2013, 8:15 PM
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Dave MacLeod's book is very good. It doesn't have illustrations, photos, and detailed training plans, and some people find the style a bit inaccesible. But I think that MacLeod provides the best answers to the question people are asking - how do I improve.


codral


Feb 20, 2013, 8:35 PM
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Excellent, thanks, I'll try find the epub... Failing that I'll just buy the SCC book and go old school, so much harder to read hard copy books, my phone and tablet I always have on me


petsfed


Apr 12, 2013, 12:43 PM
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Potts875 wrote:
In reply to:
I had absolutely no notion of the concepts in SCC

Really Jay? No notion? What the hell were you doing before the book then? You didnt know COG, inside and outside flags, back steps, drop knees and the way these all changed the way you stayed on the rock.

You weren't aware of proper footwork, silent feet or glued hands? You werent aware of your subtle movements and why they worked? Momentum? Lock offs? I find that hard to believe that someone climbing 5.11 or higher got there by luck.

To echo what Lena and Jay are saying, there's a world of difference between having a list of trick moves that work in this scenario or that, and having a codified "this is what you need to do every time, and each of those moves is just a consequence of that need" approach. I have always been a techy climber, but the Self-Coached Climber not just changed the way I climb, it changed the way I looked at routes, and (as a result) the way I would set routes.


Forums : Climbing Information : Technique & Training

 


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