Forums: Climbing Information: Gear Heads:
Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide?
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Gear Heads

Premier Sponsor:

 


lukebrown607


Jan 28, 2010, 6:49 PM
Post #1 of 90 (9055 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 25, 2005
Posts: 10

Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide?
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

I bought the Reverso3, but i like the ATC guide better. What do you guys think?


acorneau


Jan 28, 2010, 7:04 PM
Post #2 of 90 (9042 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 6, 2008
Posts: 2889

Re: [lukebrown607] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (8 ratings)  
Can't Post

lukebrown607 wrote:
I bought the Reverso3, but i like the ATC guide better. What do you guys think?


I think my girlfriend is hot, chicken isn't as tasty as beef, and that you are a silly man.


irregularpanda


Jan 28, 2010, 7:32 PM
Post #3 of 90 (9023 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 13, 2007
Posts: 1364

Re: [lukebrown607] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

lukebrown607 wrote:
I bought the Reverso3, but i like the ATC guide better. What do you guys think?

I think that yellow is a nice color, and I think my truck needs a camper shell, but not as badly as I need a real job.


meanandugly


Jan 28, 2010, 7:34 PM
Post #4 of 90 (9023 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 20, 2004
Posts: 307

Re: [acorneau] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

I agree tha beef is tastier, but chicken is easier flavoured. Silly man yes. Don't know about your girlfriend...send a pic.


rschap


Jan 28, 2010, 7:35 PM
Post #5 of 90 (9022 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 29, 2005
Posts: 590

Re: [acorneau] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Iím disappointed with both. I hate this new trend of putting teeth on belay devices and wish they would come out with an option that didnít have them in a reverso type device.


lukebrown607


Jan 28, 2010, 7:40 PM
Post #6 of 90 (9014 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 25, 2005
Posts: 10

Re: [rschap] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I have found the teeth to make no difference. the anodizing on the reverso3 makes the device extra slippery, especially on newer ropes. I do notice that when belaying a second, the BD version and the reverso when clipped in to the anchor are oriented perpendicular to each other, not sure which is better, since I only have the one. I prefer chicken ramen noodles over the beef.


moose_droppings


Jan 28, 2010, 7:40 PM
Post #7 of 90 (9014 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 7, 2005
Posts: 3340

Re: [lukebrown607] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

lukebrown607 wrote:
I bought the Reverso3, but i like the ATC guide better. What do you guys think?

I think you ought to send the Reverso3 to me.
Problem solved.


lukebrown607


Jan 28, 2010, 7:44 PM
Post #8 of 90 (9010 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 25, 2005
Posts: 10

Re: [moose_droppings] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

sounds good, one condition, you send me a brand new BD ATC Guide. I'll send you my used reverso


rschap


Jan 28, 2010, 7:50 PM
Post #9 of 90 (9003 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 29, 2005
Posts: 590

Re: [lukebrown607] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

lukebrown607 wrote:
I have found the teeth to make no difference. the anodizing on the reverso3 makes the device extra slippery, especially on newer ropes. I do notice that when belaying a second, the BD version and the reverso when clipped in to the anchor are oriented perpendicular to each other, not sure which is better, since I only have the one. I prefer chicken ramen noodles over the beef.



My wife is way too light, I have to feed the rope when I lower her or other lighter people. I have purposely avoided devices with teeth for this reason, itís completely unnecessary unless you have no grip strength or a limp wrist. I even went out and bought the fattest locker I could find to make it run smoother and it helped but not enough. If you want or need teeth fine I just wish there was an option without.


scottek67


Jan 28, 2010, 7:55 PM
Post #10 of 90 (8992 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 6, 2008
Posts: 515

Re: [rschap] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

why not turn the device around?


rschap


Jan 28, 2010, 7:56 PM
Post #11 of 90 (8990 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 29, 2005
Posts: 590

Re: [rschap] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I used the original reverso for years and liked the orientation and decided on the ATC guide because of that.


rschap


Jan 28, 2010, 7:57 PM
Post #12 of 90 (8988 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 29, 2005
Posts: 590

Re: [scottek67] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

scottek67 wrote:
why not turn the device around?


Is that a serious question?


scottek67


Jan 28, 2010, 8:02 PM
Post #13 of 90 (8979 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 6, 2008
Posts: 515

Re: [rschap] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

yes. here check out the third small pic.
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/...lay-rappel/atc-guide
I just found this...third pic is what I meant.



(This post was edited by scottek67 on Feb 1, 2010, 12:06 AM)


lukebrown607


Jan 28, 2010, 8:05 PM
Post #14 of 90 (8972 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 25, 2005
Posts: 10

Re: [rschap] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

why don't i just turn around, or just turn my head, and leave the device as is, or bring a mirror, and look only at my belay device through that


rschap


Jan 28, 2010, 8:20 PM
Post #15 of 90 (8964 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 29, 2005
Posts: 590

Re: [scottek67] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

scottek67 wrote:
yes. here check out the third small pic.
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/...lay-rappel/atc-guide

Oh I see what youíre saying. Yeah I could do that for regular belay but I also donít like the amount of friction in the autoblock mode. Maybe Iím just bitching about something that doesnít matter but personally I really donít like it and would rather think about other things like eating or enjoying the scenery then fighting with my belay device when Iím three four pitches up. Iíve only used it in autoblock mode a couple of times so far and really donít like the resistance compared to my original reverso but thatís too worn out now and I donít think they sell them anymore. Maybe Iíll just make my own (donít tell my wife I just said that, I told her today I wanted to make my own skis, sheís ok with the craziness so far but I donít want to push it).


rschap


Jan 28, 2010, 8:21 PM
Post #16 of 90 (8962 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 29, 2005
Posts: 590

Re: [lukebrown607] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

lukebrown607 wrote:
why don't i just turn around, or just turn my head, and leave the device as is, or bring a mirror, and look only at my belay device through that

I think he was referring to my comment about lowering and too much friction with the teeth.


(This post was edited by rschap on Jan 28, 2010, 8:25 PM)


moose_droppings


Jan 28, 2010, 8:47 PM
Post #17 of 90 (8948 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 7, 2005
Posts: 3340

Re: [lukebrown607] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

lukebrown607 wrote:
sounds good, one condition, you send me a brand new BD ATC Guide. I'll send you my used reverso

But I like my BD guide and you don't like your Reverso3.
Tongue


shockabuku


Jan 29, 2010, 2:56 AM
Post #18 of 90 (8873 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4851

Re: [rschap] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

What about the Kong Ghost or Trango B-52?




granite_grrl


Jan 29, 2010, 5:44 AM
Post #19 of 90 (8820 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 14585

Re: [rschap] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

rschap wrote:
lukebrown607 wrote:
I have found the teeth to make no difference. the anodizing on the reverso3 makes the device extra slippery, especially on newer ropes. I do notice that when belaying a second, the BD version and the reverso when clipped in to the anchor are oriented perpendicular to each other, not sure which is better, since I only have the one. I prefer chicken ramen noodles over the beef.



My wife is way too light, I have to feed the rope when I lower her or other lighter people. I have purposely avoided devices with teeth for this reason, itís completely unnecessary unless you have no grip strength or a limp wrist. I even went out and bought the fattest locker I could find to make it run smoother and it helped but not enough. If you want or need teeth fine I just wish there was an option without.
So you're saying that you should be using it on the low friction side and your wife should use it on the high friction side?


granite_grrl


Jan 29, 2010, 5:47 AM
Post #20 of 90 (8819 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 14585

Re: [rschap] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

rschap wrote:
scottek67 wrote:
yes. here check out the third small pic.
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/...lay-rappel/atc-guide

Oh I see what youíre saying. Yeah I could do that for regular belay but I also donít like the amount of friction in the autoblock mode. Maybe Iím just bitching about something that doesnít matter but personally I really donít like it and would rather think about other things like eating or enjoying the scenery then fighting with my belay device when Iím three four pitches up. Iíve only used it in autoblock mode a couple of times so far and really donít like the resistance compared to my original reverso but thatís too worn out now and I donít think they sell them anymore. Maybe Iíll just make my own (donít tell my wife I just said that, I told her today I wanted to make my own skis, sheís ok with the craziness so far but I donít want to push it).
Too much friction in auto-block mode? The whole point is that the rope won't move....it's blocked.

Perhaps just give the Guide to your wife and learn to use a munter.


dr_feelgood


Jan 29, 2010, 6:46 AM
Post #21 of 90 (8788 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 25629

Re: [irregularpanda] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

irregularpanda wrote:
lukebrown607 wrote:
I bought the Reverso3, but i like the ATC guide better. What do you guys think?

I think that yellow is a nice color, and I think my truck needs a camper shell, but not as badly as I need a real job.

I think that I love my camper shell on my truck, and if you get one, you won't need a real job because you won't need to pay rent as often. I think yellow is a colour for nancy boys and small children.


gmggg


Jan 29, 2010, 6:52 AM
Post #22 of 90 (8782 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 25, 2009
Posts: 2099

Re: [shockabuku] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

shockabuku wrote:
What about the Kong Ghost or Trango B-52?

You do realize that those are NOT made by black diamond or Petzl, right? I wouldn't feel safe on gear that you couldn't buy at REI.Wink


jakedatc


Jan 29, 2010, 7:37 AM
Post #23 of 90 (8767 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 11054

Re: [lukebrown607] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post




mrtristan


Jan 29, 2010, 8:15 AM
Post #24 of 90 (8745 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 21, 2002
Posts: 596

Re: [lukebrown607] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I've used both and I think each has its own merits. When belaying the second in autoblock mode, you can clip a Petzl Spirit biner through the hole on the bottom of the Reverso if you need to and use that to lower out/give slack. The hole is there on the BD, but you have to tie cord to it to get a biner through.

It is hard to belay up two seconds using fat ropes with the Reverso. I've heard it's easier with the BD but haven't used it for that purpose so I don't know.


coolcat83


Jan 29, 2010, 8:39 AM
Post #25 of 90 (8680 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 27, 2007
Posts: 1006

Re: [mrtristan] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

mrtristan wrote:
It is hard to belay up two seconds using fat ropes with the Reverso. I've heard it's easier with the BD but haven't used it for that purpose so I don't know.

yes, and it's easy enough to just loops a skinny sling or cord through the hole in the guide. if yu are lowering your second that much get a cinch (my favorite singe rope belay device after the guide) or a grigri


currupt4130


Jan 29, 2010, 11:16 AM
Post #26 of 90 (3000 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 6, 2008
Posts: 515

Re: [mrtristan] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

mrtristan wrote:
I've used both and I think each has its own merits. When belaying the second in autoblock mode, you can clip a Petzl Spirit biner through the hole on the bottom of the Reverso if you need to and use that to lower out/give slack. The hole is there on the BD, but you have to tie cord to it to get a biner through.

It is hard to belay up two seconds using fat ropes with the Reverso. I've heard it's easier with the BD but haven't used it for that purpose so I don't know.

The nose of a hotwire works well in there too.

I had to bring seconds up at the same time with two 10.2's with my Reverso 3. It was a workout.


possum2082


Jan 29, 2010, 12:18 PM
Post #27 of 90 (2979 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 26, 2008
Posts: 218

Re: [lukebrown607] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

madrock madlock for the win.

http://www.madrockclimbing.com/madlockbelaydevice.aspx


vegastradguy


Jan 29, 2010, 12:51 PM
Post #28 of 90 (2969 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 5919

Re: [possum2082] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

possum2082 wrote:
madrock madlock for the win.

http://www.madrockclimbing.com/madlockbelaydevice.aspx

you mean the device that's a cheap ripoff of the old petzl reverso- the one that tends to turn into a knife over time? there's a reason petzl changed the design- even if they wont actually say that in press releases.


shockabuku


Jan 29, 2010, 2:21 PM
Post #29 of 90 (2953 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4851

Re: [rschap] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Simond Toucan (not BD or Petzl either), cheap.

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=2279477#2279477


rschap


Jan 29, 2010, 11:11 PM
Post #30 of 90 (2919 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 29, 2005
Posts: 590

Re: [granite_grrl] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

granite_grrl wrote:
So you're saying that you should be using it on the low friction side and your wife should use it on the high friction side?


My wife has her own belay device.


granite_grrl wrote:
Too much friction in auto-block mode? The whole point is that the rope won't move....it's blocked.

Perhaps just give the Guide to your wife and learn to use a munter.

Do you know how these devices work? Or perhaps you donít understand what I mean; Iím not talking about lowering in autoblock mode Iím talking about pulling slack. Iíve used an autoblock for years, I just donít care for the way these devices work. Iím sure some people find it useful I personally donít like it.


rschap


Jan 29, 2010, 11:21 PM
Post #31 of 90 (2916 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 29, 2005
Posts: 590

Re: [rschap] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I canít buy Kong, I donít have a rational reason for it I just canít. Is the B52 and autoblock? I didnít know that. Madrock has the same downfall the old reverso had. And I donít care for the Toucan either. A friend of mine has one and Iíve used it once, I just didnít like it. I think the ATC guide without teeth is exactly what I want but itís just not made.




Edit: I just read up on the B52 and see how itís an autoblock. I like the ability to lower that petzl and BD have put on their devices and the B52 does not have this.


Edit: I never looked at the Madlock before, is it even an autoblock? It doesnít look like it has an autoblock mode just a bottle opener.


(This post was edited by rschap on Jan 31, 2010, 6:31 PM)


steple


Jan 30, 2010, 12:30 AM
Post #32 of 90 (2902 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 11, 2008
Posts: 67

Re: [lukebrown607] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

lukebrown607 wrote:
I bought the Reverso3, but i like the ATC guide better. What do you guys think?

The main difference is that the attachment point that you use in 'reverso mode' is angled 90į differently. The way I built anchors and hook it up doesn't work with the BD, but works well with the Petzl. But this might be the other way around for you.


colatownkid


Jan 30, 2010, 4:53 AM
Post #33 of 90 (2893 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 27, 2007
Posts: 512

Re: [mrtristan] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

mrtristan wrote:
I've used both and I think each has its own merits. When belaying the second in autoblock mode, you can clip a Petzl Spirit biner through the hole on the bottom of the Reverso if you need to and use that to lower out/give slack. The hole is there on the BD, but you have to tie cord to it to get a biner through.

It is hard to belay up two seconds using fat ropes with the Reverso. I've heard it's easier with the BD but haven't used it for that purpose so I don't know.

Not necessarily. Usually you can just use a carabiner, but it has to keylock instead of notched.


possum2082


Jan 30, 2010, 5:31 AM
Post #34 of 90 (2887 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 26, 2008
Posts: 218

Re: [vegastradguy] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
you mean the device that's a cheap ripoff of the old petzl reverso- the one that tends to turn into a knife over time? there's a reason petzl changed the design- even if they wont actually say that in press releases.

yeah? but it opens beer bottles.


I_do


Jan 30, 2010, 6:30 AM
Post #35 of 90 (2872 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 2, 2008
Posts: 1232

Re: [possum2082] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

possum2082 wrote:
In reply to:
you mean the device that's a cheap ripoff of the old petzl reverso- the one that tends to turn into a knife over time? there's a reason petzl changed the design- even if they wont actually say that in press releases.

yeah? but it opens beer bottles.

Dude, the newspaper opens beer bottles other bottles open botlles, rocks, knives, lighters and teeth. This has been discussed at length a 100 times do a search you NooB!


possum2082


Jan 30, 2010, 6:36 AM
Post #36 of 90 (2870 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 26, 2008
Posts: 218

Re: [I_do] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

teach me more.


I_do


Jan 30, 2010, 6:45 AM
Post #37 of 90 (2866 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 2, 2008
Posts: 1232

Re: [possum2082] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

possum2082 wrote:
teach me more.

Samurai sword? Don't use your teeth I once popped a filling, my dentist was not amused.


currupt4130


Jan 30, 2010, 7:52 AM
Post #38 of 90 (2847 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 6, 2008
Posts: 515

Re: [rschap] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

rschap wrote:
I think the ATC guide without teeth is exactly what I want but itís just not made.

So why not just clean the teeth off of it? A bastard file will take care of it in no time. Just go slow and be careful.


shockabuku


Jan 30, 2010, 9:18 AM
Post #39 of 90 (2833 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4851

Re: [rschap] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

rschap wrote:
I canít but Kong, I donít have a rational reason for it I just canít.

That's funny. I'd buy more Kong stuff if it was readily available.


tomtom


Jan 30, 2010, 9:56 AM
Post #40 of 90 (2815 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 9, 2004
Posts: 366

Re: [rschap] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

rschap wrote:
I think the ATC guide without teeth is exactly what I want but itís just not made.
I 'made' my own by rappelling on wet gritty ropes. The teeth on mine are gone. So far gone that I bought a new Reverso 3 so that raps on icy 8 mm ropes wouldn't be so sporty.


Khoi


Jan 30, 2010, 1:15 PM
Post #41 of 90 (2797 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 10, 2008
Posts: 292

Re: [rschap] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

rschap wrote:
I canít buy [fixed?] Kong, I donít have a rational reason for it I just canít.

Why can't you buy Kong? What are you non-rational reasons?

rschap wrote:
Edit: I never looked at the Madlock before, is it even an autoblock? It doesnít look like it has an autoblock mode just a bottle opener.

Yes, it is an autoblock. It is marketed as having a very simple "lower the second" function.

From their website:

"The innovative 45 degree loading design allows for the belay to lower the second climber without creating a leverage advantage. "

I was thinking that the Kong Gigi might be what you're looking for, but you refuse to buy Kong.

Why don't you check out Gary D. Storrick's site?

http://storrick.cnchost.com/...e/BelayDevices.shtml

He has write-ups for virtually every single belay device that has come on the market. There's at least a dozen or so other belay devices out there with an autoblock function.

Unfortunately, almost all of the other ones are somewhat hard to find outside of Europe.


avalon420


Jan 30, 2010, 2:11 PM
Post #42 of 90 (2791 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 281

Re: [rschap] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

rschap wrote:
Iím disappointed with both. I hate this new trend of putting teeth on belay devices and wish they would come out with an option that didnít have them in a reverso type device.
Perhaps, my friend,you should try the Kong ghost. Wife got me one for christmas and it is da bees knees. Oh yeah, and thats MY favorite.


Khoi


Jan 30, 2010, 2:30 PM
Post #43 of 90 (2785 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 10, 2008
Posts: 292

Re: [avalon420] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

avalon420 wrote:
rschap wrote:
Iím disappointed with both. I hate this new trend of putting teeth on belay devices and wish they would come out with an option that didnít have them in a reverso type device.
Perhaps, my friend,you should try the Kong ghost. Wife got me one for christmas and it is da bees knees. Oh yeah, and thats MY favorite.

He refuses to buy Kong products. I look forward to hearing his reasons why.


coolcat83


Jan 30, 2010, 3:13 PM
Post #44 of 90 (2778 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 27, 2007
Posts: 1006

Re: [currupt4130] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

currupt4130 wrote:
rschap wrote:
I think the ATC guide without teeth is exactly what I want but itís just not made.

So why not just clean the teeth off of it? A bastard file will take care of it in no time. Just go slow and be careful.

I was going to suggest that...besides the teeth will smooth out a bit over time, just climb a lot...maybe in sandy areas


dr_feelgood


Jan 30, 2010, 9:26 PM
Post #45 of 90 (2757 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 25629

Re: [rschap] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

rschap wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
So you're saying that you should be using it on the low friction side and your wife should use it on the high friction side?


My wife has her own belay device.


granite_grrl wrote:
Too much friction in auto-block mode? The whole point is that the rope won't move....it's blocked.

Perhaps just give the Guide to your wife and learn to use a munter.

Do you know how these devices work? Or perhaps you donít understand what I mean; Iím not talking about lowering in autoblock mode Iím talking about pulling slack. Iíve used an autoblock for years, I just donít care for the way these devices work. Iím sure some people find it useful I personally donít like it.

I drew this for you. I hope it helps.


Attachments: ATC.bmp (67.5 KB)


Travis_22


Jan 31, 2010, 5:53 PM
Post #46 of 90 (2722 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 11, 2009
Posts: 29

Re: [possum2082] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I haven't used a reverso, but the BD guide isn't too smooth with the fatter ropes. I was just messing around with it in guide mode using a 10.5 rope. Seems like it would be quite the workout. I threw in another biner just to see if it would be smoother, not too much...


tradrenn


Jan 31, 2010, 6:27 PM
Post #47 of 90 (2707 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 15, 2005
Posts: 2990

Re: [lukebrown607] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

lukebrown607 wrote:
I bought the Reverso3, but i like the ATC guide better. What do you guys think?

Hey Luke, how are you dude ?
How is New York treating ya ?

Reverso 3 or BD Guide.

Seriously:

Reverso 3 is way better and yes your question is silly.

V.


rschap


Jan 31, 2010, 6:45 PM
Post #48 of 90 (2697 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 29, 2005
Posts: 590

Re: [Travis_22] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

Travis_22 wrote:
I haven't used a reverso, but the BD guide isn't too smooth with the fatter ropes. I was just messing around with it in guide mode using a 10.5 rope. Seems like it would be quite the workout. I threw in another biner just to see if it would be smoother, not too much...

That's all I was saying.




I don't buy Kong and I don't shop at Kmart. Maybe Kong has improved their products since the last time I looked at their catalog but it always looked like cheap shit to me.


Khoi


Jan 31, 2010, 9:01 PM
Post #49 of 90 (2673 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 10, 2008
Posts: 292

Re: [rschap] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

rschap wrote:
I don't buy Kong and I don't shop at Kmart. Maybe Kong has improved their products since the last time I looked at their catalog but it always looked like cheap shit to me.

Have you ever handled or used any of Kong's products? Or are you only going by nothing more than what you've looked at in their catalogue?

Wiregate biners look like cheap shit to a lot of people, but most of them are anything but.

Take a look at the Kong Ghost:

http://storrick.cnchost.com/...otBlockBelay862.html

It appears to have the characteristics you are looking for. If you think it looks like cheap shit, then I'll be superlatively curious on what you think make the Black Diamond ATC Guide and the Petzl Reverso 3 any different.

BTW, do you shop at Wal-Mart?


Travis_22


Jan 31, 2010, 11:09 PM
Post #50 of 90 (2664 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 11, 2009
Posts: 29

Re: [Khoi] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

The Kong looks okay, it does somehow look cheap. Biggest thing for me is I am not a big fan of metal on metal. You could use something like a dmm belay master, but the metal there might pop that plastic spacer right out. I would hate to see some of the twist action that thing could do on a gate. May not be a problem, but it does remind me on an eight.

Does the kong have any sort of lowering feature for belaying a second?


(This post was edited by Travis_22 on Jan 31, 2010, 11:11 PM)


Khoi


Feb 1, 2010, 12:24 AM
Post #51 of 90 (3458 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 10, 2008
Posts: 292

Re: [Travis_22] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Travis_22 wrote:
The Kong looks okay, it does somehow look cheap.

???

I do not see how it looks any different in quality compared to the Black Diamond ATC Guide or the Petzl Reverso 3. Perhaps it's the non-studio quality of the photos on Storrick's site?

For comparison, here's how the the Black Diamond ATC Guide looks on his site:

http://storrick.cnchost.com/...es/BelayTube676.html

and the Petzl Reverso 3:

http://storrick.cnchost.com/...es/BelayTube894.html

I can't be the only one who doesn't SEE a difference in quality when looking at these photos.

Travis_22 wrote:
Biggest thing for me is I am not a big fan of metal on metal.

Like the original Petzl Reverso, Mad Rock Mad Lock, Omega Pacific SBG and SBGII, Mammut Smart, Petzl Grigri, Trango Cinch, and every other "auto-locking" belay device?

My climbing partner is the opposite. After have a keeper cord break on him, he prefers to have a metal loop. When the original Petzl Reverso first came out he happily switched over to it and has been using it ever since.

Travis_22 wrote:
You could use something like a dmm belay master, but the metal there might pop that plastic spacer right out.

How does using a DMM Belay Master, or the DMM Belay Master 2, avoid the metal on metal scenario?

Travis_22 wrote:
I would hate to see some of the twist action that thing could do on a gate. May not be a problem, but it does remind me on an eight.

Sorry, you've lost me.

Travis_22 wrote:
Does the kong have any sort of lowering feature for belaying a second?

I don't know for sure. But from looking at the photos of the Kong Ghost, I think it would be easy to use the metal loop (where the belay biner goes - the part that usually a coated wire on other belay devices) for leverage.


Travis_22


Feb 1, 2010, 6:59 AM
Post #52 of 90 (3430 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 11, 2009
Posts: 29

Re: [Khoi] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I didn't say it was cheap, just looked it, to me.

Well, the grigri and most all the auto locking are a little different, with its smaller slot. The revers(ino?) has a wider metal piece.

What i was talking about with the belay biner, there had been some bad things going on with the figure eight belay. Seems that someone died because the metal eye got positioned over the gate and the metal on metal (twist action I suppose) broke the twisty ring to lock the biner. Apparently, with most biners it only takes a few hundred pounds to break the gate with an inward force. This couldn't happen with a regular atc. Kinda scared me from using my 8, but I probably still will, I just need to watch it. I have noticed a few times using the figure 8 that the eye can easily be positioned over the gate.

It just seems to me that a soft connection is a much better idea. I am allowed to have my own opinion, I hope. The kong (and other models) have wider eyes, which would make it a lot safer methinks.

Yeah, I guess you could use that loop to lower someone. Just girth a sling on her.

Alright, think i'm done talking.


(This post was edited by Travis_22 on Feb 1, 2010, 7:03 AM)


rschap


Feb 1, 2010, 4:53 PM
Post #53 of 90 (3396 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 29, 2005
Posts: 590

Re: [Travis_22] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

The last time I looked at Kong gear was about 8-9 years ago when I first started climbing and was building my rack. I had friends that had some of their cams, nuts, bineers, and even a funky ass belay device and all of it looked like shit kinda like Gear4Rocks does now. I ended up buying Trango Flex cams which the old school cams didnít look as clean and professional as other cams or as they do now but after buying one and using it I didnít care. After playing with a Kong cam I was convinced Iíd never own one. Iíve never had anyone defend Kong when I said it was shit before so I never looked at their stuff since but I just went to their web site and I admit it looks a hell of a lot better than it used to. So now my complaint against the Kong Ghost is it doesnít have a built in way to lower.

I guess Harbor Freight would be a better example than Kmart but I do shop at Harbor Freight for some things, the difference is I donít hang my life on them.

Someone said above that I should grind the teeth off and Iíve thought about that but I think Iíll just make a device that has everything I want rather than try to modify one that exist.


shockabuku


Feb 1, 2010, 7:08 PM
Post #54 of 90 (3377 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4851

Re: [Travis_22] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Travis_22 wrote:
I didn't say it was cheap, just looked it, to me.

Well, the grigri and most all the auto locking are a little different, with its smaller slot. The revers(ino?) has a wider metal piece.

What i was talking about with the belay biner, there had been some bad things going on with the figure eight belay. Seems that someone died because the metal eye got positioned over the gate and the metal on metal (twist action I suppose) broke the twisty ring to lock the biner. Apparently, with most biners it only takes a few hundred pounds to break the gate with an inward force. This couldn't happen with a regular atc. Kinda scared me from using my 8, but I probably still will, I just need to watch it. I have noticed a few times using the figure 8 that the eye can easily be positioned over the gate.

It just seems to me that a soft connection is a much better idea. I am allowed to have my own opinion, I hope. The kong (and other models) have wider eyes, which would make it a lot safer methinks.

Yeah, I guess you could use that loop to lower someone. Just girth a sling on her.

Alright, think i'm done talking.

Thank goodness. I don't think I've ever read so much by someone who doesn't really know what he's talking about.


shockabuku


Feb 1, 2010, 7:21 PM
Post #55 of 90 (3373 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4851

Re: [rschap] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Avalon420 got one for Christmas. You might ask him how well it lowers. I think the ring on the bottom is for tilting it to lower but I'm not sure.


west_by_god_virginia


Feb 1, 2010, 7:29 PM
Post #56 of 90 (3368 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 4, 2009
Posts: 104

Re: [shockabuku] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

reverso3


scottek67


Feb 1, 2010, 8:19 PM
Post #57 of 90 (3361 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 6, 2008
Posts: 515

Re: [rschap] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

rschap wrote:
Someone said above that I should grind the teeth off and I've thought about that but I think I'll just make a device that has everything I want rather than try to modify one that exist.
It must be nice being a machinist having access to the equipment to make your own gear! Why not try building a funky belay device with your own twist. howabout these...




avalon420


Feb 1, 2010, 8:41 PM
Post #58 of 90 (3359 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 281

Re: [rschap] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

rschap wrote:
The last time I looked at Kong gear was about 8-9 years ago when I first started climbing and was building my rack. I had friends that had some of their cams, nuts, bineers, and even a funky ass belay device and all of it looked like shit kinda like Gear4Rocks does now. I ended up buying Trango Flex cams which the old school cams didnít look as clean and professional as other cams or as they do now but after buying one and using it I didnít care. After playing with a Kong cam I was convinced Iíd never own one. Iíve never had anyone defend Kong when I said it was shit before so I never looked at their stuff since but I just went to their web site and I admit it looks a hell of a lot better than it used to. So now my complaint against the Kong Ghost is it doesnít have a built in way to lower.

I guess Harbor Freight would be a better example than Kmart but I do shop at Harbor Freight for some things, the difference is I donít hang my life on them.

Someone said above that I should grind the teeth off and Iíve thought about that but I think Iíll just make a device that has everything I want rather than try to modify one that exist.
ALL of these type auto blocking belay devices have the simplest of lowering methods intrinsic to their nature. And here it is, clip a sling to the blocking carabiner, thread sling through a higher anchor, KEEP BREAK HAND ON BREAK SIDE, KEEP BREAK HAND ON BREAK SIDE, pull down on sling and lower.


rtwilli4


Feb 1, 2010, 9:21 PM
Post #59 of 90 (3348 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 14, 2008
Posts: 1867

Re: [lukebrown607] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I read a lot of responses and was surprised to see that no one has mentioned the weight. The Petzl Reverso is much lighter than the ATC Guide. I believe it's 105g for the ATC and 75 for the Reverso, or something like that.

Also, as a few people have mentioned, you can stick the nose of pretty much any keylock biner in the lowering hole of the Reverso... not sure it's that easy with the guide, although you could use a nut tool for either.

They are oriented differently in AB mode... 90* difference but I can't see why that would make any difference.

The middle of the ATC sticks out lower than the outer two walls, so it "rocks" on the biner when belaying two seconds. The Reverso doesn't do this and I've heard that it is easier to lower one person when belaying two seconds with the ATC but I've never actually done it so I can't be sure.

Both suck w/ fat ropes.

I have both and use the Reverso pretty much all the time .


scotty1974


Feb 2, 2010, 11:19 AM
Post #60 of 90 (3318 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 30, 2006
Posts: 248

Re: [rtwilli4] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Guide...I know it's heavier and more difficult to break, but I think it feeds much smoother. The Reverso feeds lousy with even moderately thick ropes.

But again...chicken or beef.


rschap


Feb 2, 2010, 6:07 PM
Post #61 of 90 (3278 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 29, 2005
Posts: 590

Re: [scottek67] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

scottek67 wrote:
It must be nice being a machinist having access to the equipment to make your own gear! Why not try building a funky belay device with your own twist. howabout these...



I've considered that.




Edit: Sorry about the thread jack.


(This post was edited by rschap on Feb 2, 2010, 6:23 PM)
Attachments: paw_8.JPG (94.3 KB)


shockabuku


Feb 3, 2010, 5:03 AM
Post #62 of 90 (3243 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4851

Re: [scotty1974] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

scotty1974 wrote:
Guide...I know it's heavier and more difficult to break, but I think it feeds much smoother. The Reverso feeds lousy with even moderately thick ropes.

But again...chicken or beef.

I think that being difficult to break your belay device is probably a good thing.


scotty1974


Feb 3, 2010, 6:35 AM
Post #63 of 90 (3213 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 30, 2006
Posts: 248

Re: [shockabuku] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I'm sure that's sarcasm (I think), but what I meant is difficult to "unbreak" in autoblock mode when a second has fallen. ie., that little hole that you take a carabiner or cord to release the tension.


(This post was edited by scotty1974 on Feb 3, 2010, 7:06 AM)


shoo


Feb 3, 2010, 6:58 AM
Post #64 of 90 (3209 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 22, 2006
Posts: 1501

Re: [scotty1974] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

scotty1974 wrote:
I'm sure that's sarcasm (I think), but what I mean is difficult to "unbreak" in autoblock mode when a second has fallen. ie., that little hole that you take a carabiner or cord to release the tension.

Ummm. . . .

break:
Ėverb (used with object)
1. to smash, split, or divide into parts violently; reduce to pieces or fragments.


brake:
Ėverb (used with object)
8. to slow or stop by means of or as if by means of a brake.



shoo


Feb 3, 2010, 6:59 AM
Post #65 of 90 (3208 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 22, 2006
Posts: 1501

Re: [rschap] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

rschap wrote:
scottek67 wrote:
It must be nice being a machinist having access to the equipment to make your own gear! Why not try building a funky belay device with your own twist. howabout these...

I've considered that.


Edit: Sorry about the thread jack.

Combo rescue 8 and anchor plate? Cool!


scotty1974


Feb 3, 2010, 7:11 AM
Post #66 of 90 (3201 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 30, 2006
Posts: 248

Re: [shoo] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

Wow...I don't know if I'm more impressed that you can look up a word, or the fact that your able to pick apart a post for my using verbage that doesn't exactly correlate with Webster's definition.

No one in the history of man has ever used a word in a fashion that differs from it's original definition. That's why dictionaries are never updated and colloquialism doesn't exist.

I would imagine there's a thread somewhere that urgently needs you to contribute nothing to it...


(This post was edited by scotty1974 on Feb 3, 2010, 7:13 AM)


shoo


Feb 3, 2010, 7:24 AM
Post #67 of 90 (3194 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 22, 2006
Posts: 1501

Re: [scotty1974] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

scotty1974 wrote:
Wow...I don't know if I'm more impressed that you can look up a word, or the fact that your able to pick apart a post for my using verbage that doesn't exactly correlate with Webster's definition.

No one in the history of man has ever used a word in a fashion that differs from it's original definition. That's why dictionaries are never updated and colloquialism doesn't exist.

I would imagine there's a thread somewhere that urgently needs you to contribute nothing to it...

Yeah, that, ooooor, I'm explaining why people were previously giving you crap for it.

In any case, MY FIRST SIG! WOOHOO!!


kachoong


Feb 3, 2010, 7:44 AM
Post #68 of 90 (3187 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 22, 2004
Posts: 15304

Re: [shockabuku] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

shockabuku wrote:
What about the Kong Ghost or Trango B-52?

Anything that looks like the Enterprise is bound to perform well!

"Beam me up!"


shoo


Feb 3, 2010, 8:15 AM
Post #69 of 90 (3183 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 22, 2006
Posts: 1501

Re: [lukebrown607] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Meh, I'll go ahead and actually add something to this thread, since I own and have used both thoroughly (the reverso3 was a gift).

My advice is to get whichever one is cheaper. Honestly. There is very, very little difference between the two. That being said, I have a slight preference for the ATC-Guide for a couple of reasons.

1. I've had it longer. It's been loved, and it shows. I don't like shiny gear.

2. It feeds slightly more smoothly in both modes.

3. The reverso3 has this weird tendency for the brake side of the rope to flip over the side rail, rather than stay in its groove, when being used in normal mode belaying. Even more so with twisty ropes.

4. Contrary to popular belief, you can actually get quite a bit of stuff into that little brake release tab/slot, including some very small 'biner noses, cord, skinny slings, etc. And even if you couldn't, do you really need to? You just don't use it in guide mode if you expect to have to lower someone. In a few years using this device, I can only recall one time where I needed to briefly release tension on a weighted ATC-Guide in guide mode. It was exceedingly easy.

That being said, if I'm going to be using super skinny lines (sub 9.5 singles) all day long, I might whip out the reverso3. It does tend to have a little more braking power with skinny ropes. Anything above 9.5, though and it's just a little stickier in comparison to the guide, which can be annoying.


scotty1974


Feb 3, 2010, 11:39 AM
Post #70 of 90 (3157 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 30, 2006
Posts: 248

Re: [shoo] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Apparently I was a bit too cavalier in assuming that everyone was familiar with the technique and venacular associated with the device...or at least what I am familiar with.

Edited and submitted for approval...

"In the event of the device "braking" a second's fall, it is easier to "break" the tension created by the device" in autoblock mode".

Hopefully that adds clarity for anyone that experience confusion. No belay devices were intentionally or accidently harmed.


(This post was edited by scotty1974 on Feb 3, 2010, 11:43 AM)


JimTitt


Feb 3, 2010, 12:17 PM
Post #71 of 90 (3144 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 7, 2008
Posts: 954

Re: [shoo] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
That being said, if I'm going to be using super skinny lines (sub 9.5 singles) all day long, I might whip out the reverso3. It does tend to have a little more braking power with skinny ropes. Anything above 9.5, though and it's just a little stickier in comparison to the guide, which can be annoying.

Sort of interesting that, it is a perception thing I guess!
Iīve done lot of pull tests with both the XP Guide and Reverso ≥.
Holding falls the ATC is the more powerful of the two for all sizes of rope by about 5% and when you get to really thick (10,5 and up ) ropes the Reverso falls away badly as the V slots are so narrow the rope canīt get in and brake properly. By then it doesnīt really matter anyway as there is plenty of power for most situations.
Abseiling the situation is reversed and the Reverso≥ is more powerful unti 10mm where the V problem occurs again, in real life this is probably irrelevant.
Pull through the Reverso is the stickier on average of 8% especially over 9.5mm.
Neither is as powerful as the ATC XP.
(And after a lot of abuse you will notice the centre rib of the Reverso is too narrow and starts to become damaged by the karabiner).


dr_feelgood


Feb 4, 2010, 6:11 AM
Post #72 of 90 (3109 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 25629

Re: [scotty1974] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

scotty1974 wrote:
Wow...I don't know if I'm more impressed that you can look up a word, or the fact that your able to pick apart a post for my using verbage that doesn't exactly correlate with Webster's definition.

No one in the history of man has ever used a word in a fashion that differs from it's original definition. That's why dictionaries are never updated and colloquialism doesn't exist.

I would imagine there's a thread somewhere that urgently needs you to contribute nothing to it...

trying to pass off a misspelling as a revolution in the English language... interesting tactic.
A simple whoops would have sufficed.


scotty1974


Feb 4, 2010, 6:24 AM
Post #73 of 90 (3104 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 30, 2006
Posts: 248

Re: [dr_feelgood] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

I didn't realize this was scrutinizemypostsformispellingsthensayi'msorry.com.

Next time I'll run any posts through a proofreader so I can avoid the public shame.

Can we return this thread to actually talking about climbing? I clarified my original post, I didn't ask for a lesson on spelling or the application of words, I just wanted to talk about the ATC/ Reverso.....Jeezzzz


(This post was edited by scotty1974 on Feb 4, 2010, 6:35 AM)


shockabuku


Feb 4, 2010, 6:35 AM
Post #74 of 90 (3098 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4851

Re: [scotty1974] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

scotty1974 wrote:
I didn't realize this was scrutinizemypostsformispellingsthensayi'msorry.com.

Next time I'll run any posts through a proofreader so I can avoid the public shame.

Can we return this thread to actually talking about climbing? I clarified my original post, I didn't ask for a lesson on spelling or the application of words. Jeezzzz

Good grief, take the criticism and quit whining. Spelling matters when you communicate in the written form. I read your post and didn't understand your point because you used the wrong word. So I called you out on it. Deal with it.


avalon420


Feb 4, 2010, 3:42 PM
Post #75 of 90 (3071 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 281

Re: [kachoong] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

kachoong wrote:
shockabuku wrote:
What about the Kong Ghost or Trango B-52?
[image]http://www.gearexpress.biz/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/kong%20ghost.jpg[/image]

Anything that looks like the Enterprise is bound to perform well!

"Beam me up!"
I luvs the thing, and hate anything (well, belay device) w/ a wire loop.


lukebrown607


May 12, 2010, 4:34 PM
Post #76 of 90 (2000 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 25, 2005
Posts: 10

Re: [shoo] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

Scotty1974. This is a forum on gear. So if you have nothing to contribute, you should go post somewhere else. You obviously are not suited for this discussion. Actually don't care what you have to say, but thought it comical that Shoo actually had some usefull input, and you are the one that is wasting everyone's time. Not that this thread makes any difference in the world. It's more for people with a mechanical background, obviously you do not understand.


scotty1974


May 13, 2010, 11:33 AM
Post #77 of 90 (1940 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 30, 2006
Posts: 248

Re: [lukebrown607] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

I actually have to laugh...are you trash talking me 3 months after the last post??

I ran back into this thread and forgot that there was even a internet battle I was involved in!! I guess we just all moved on with our lives....

That's great!!! Keep up the good work and keep the love alive!! Wink


(This post was edited by scotty1974 on May 13, 2010, 11:36 AM)


airscape


May 14, 2010, 4:02 AM
Post #78 of 90 (1885 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 26, 2001
Posts: 4240

Re: [lukebrown607] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

lukebrown607 wrote:
Scotty1974. This is a forum on gear. So if you have nothing to contribute, you should go post somewhere else. You obviously are not suited for this discussion. Actually don't care what you have to say, but thought it comical that Shoo actually had some usefull input, and you are the one that is wasting everyone's time. Not that this thread makes any difference in the world. It's more for people with a mechanical background, obviously you do not understand.


Welcome! You sure are going to fit in nicely...

Edit: Never mind.


(This post was edited by airscape on May 14, 2010, 4:04 AM)


shoo


May 14, 2010, 6:19 AM
Post #79 of 90 (1860 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 22, 2006
Posts: 1501

Re: [lukebrown607] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Dear Luke,
Scotty and I have long reconciled our differences. Since then, we have discovered a mutual love for small furry animals. They are delicious. To cut a long story short, we got married and have had two children. They're about your age, now.

-Shoo


airscape


May 14, 2010, 7:06 AM
Post #80 of 90 (1843 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 26, 2001
Posts: 4240

Re: [shoo] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

shoo wrote:
Dear Luke,
Scotty and I have long reconciled our differences. Since then, we have discovered a mutual love for small furry animals. They are delicious. To cut a long story short, we got married and have had two children. They're about your age, now.

-Shoo

Haha hehe tee hee.


scotty1974


May 14, 2010, 2:28 PM
Post #81 of 90 (1812 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 30, 2006
Posts: 248

Re: [shoo] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Dude! I almost choked on a piece of food!!! Sly

The only thing that made it come out is the fact I was lauging so hard!!!


lukebrown607


May 18, 2010, 5:49 PM
Post #82 of 90 (1734 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 25, 2005
Posts: 10

Re: [scotty1974] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

I love it! I knew there was something weird going on. Don't want anyone to choke on small animals. Sorry if i offended you lovebirds. These forums get ridiculous sometimes (plus most everyone up here is a little nuts!).


gdstorrick


Jul 25, 2010, 8:59 AM
Post #83 of 90 (1548 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 2, 2009
Posts: 16

Re: [Khoi] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Khoi wrote:
I do not see how it looks any different in quality compared to the Black Diamond ATC Guide or the Petzl Reverso 3. Perhaps it's the non-studio quality of the photos on Storrick's site?

<SNIP>

I can't be the only one who doesn't SEE a difference in quality when looking at these photos.

When I still maintained my site, I reduced all photos to 72dpi. Reducing their size allowed me to keep the web site within the size limits that I was paying for. Now that my site is gone, I feel that the "non-studio quality" issue is irrelevant.

Photos aside, I don't see an obvious "quality" difference in the "looks" of my samples of these two devices.

Gary


amyas


Jul 25, 2010, 6:09 PM
Post #84 of 90 (1518 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 5, 2009
Posts: 83

Re: [lukebrown607] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

i have tried both and prefer the guide as i seem to get bigger diameter ropes through with more ease. could just be me though.


pilot4life


Jul 26, 2010, 12:58 PM
Post #85 of 90 (1454 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 5, 2007
Posts: 16

Re: [amyas] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I own three of the above mentioned devices, purchased about a year apart from each other. The BD is heaviest and I didn't like the orientation as much as the other two for belaying up the second(s). I find both the BD and Reverso3 suck with bigger ropes, so I went and tried the Ghost with slightly better results. The one thing about the Ghost I don't like, is the annoying cowbell sound it creates when not in use, and a slightly higher likely hood of it getting dropped if I am not careful. On smaller ropes (sub 10mm) I prefer the Rev3, larger ropes the Ghost wins.


amyas


Jul 26, 2010, 9:29 PM
Post #86 of 90 (1414 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 5, 2009
Posts: 83

Re: [pilot4life] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

hey pilot who makes the ghost? and where did you pick it up?


pilot4life


Jul 27, 2010, 9:57 AM
Post #87 of 90 (1391 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 5, 2007
Posts: 16

Re: [amyas] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

amyas wrote:
hey pilot who makes the ghost? and where did you pick it up?

I picked mine up at ClimbMax (www.climbmaxmountaineering.com) in Portland, OR, but they don't appear to sell on-line anymore. It is made by Kong.


ajkclay


Jul 29, 2010, 6:19 AM
Post #88 of 90 (1343 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 8, 2002
Posts: 1564

Re: [mrtristan] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

mrtristan wrote:
I've used both and I think each has its own merits. When belaying the second in autoblock mode, you can clip a Petzl Spirit biner through the hole on the bottom of the Reverso if you need to and use that to lower out/give slack. The hole is there on the BD, but you have to tie cord to it to get a biner through.

It is hard to belay up two seconds using fat ropes with the Reverso. I've heard it's easier with the BD but haven't used it for that purpose so I don't know.

You don't need to tie anything through it... thread a #6 stopper through and clip a biner to that.


vegastradguy


Jul 29, 2010, 9:16 AM
Post #89 of 90 (1315 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 5919

Re: [ajkclay] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

ajkclay wrote:
mrtristan wrote:
I've used both and I think each has its own merits. When belaying the second in autoblock mode, you can clip a Petzl Spirit biner through the hole on the bottom of the Reverso if you need to and use that to lower out/give slack. The hole is there on the BD, but you have to tie cord to it to get a biner through.

It is hard to belay up two seconds using fat ropes with the Reverso. I've heard it's easier with the BD but haven't used it for that purpose so I don't know.

You don't need to tie anything through it... thread a #6 stopper through and clip a biner to that.

or use any of the mini-biners made post-atc-guide, the new Nano, FS Mini, and Neutrino all fit in there. Id suspect quite a few others do as well.

or your nut tool. or a 8mm sling from mammut.


Cadmus


Jan 14, 2013, 6:22 AM
Post #90 of 90 (597 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 13, 2010
Posts: 11

Re: [rschap] Pezl Reverso3 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

rschap wrote:
Iím disappointed with both. I hate this new trend of putting teeth on belay devices and wish they would come out with an option that didnít have them in a reverso type device.
I have really liked the Simond Toucan. it does everything my reverso did with no teeth. I have not used the Toucan 2. It does cause a lot of rope twist when rapping but they all do.

Sorry for the bump.


Forums : Climbing Information : Gear Heads

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook