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yodadave
Mar 14, 2010, 1:43 AM
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Is it possible for them to both to sell identical products? Surely one or other must hold the patents?
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yodadave
Mar 14, 2010, 3:57 AM
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if it breaches numerous patents does that mean they 're gonna get sued?
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rubber_man
Mar 14, 2010, 4:39 AM
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yodadave wrote: if it breaches numerous patents does that mean they 're gonna get sued? possibly, depends on if madrock wants to press charges.
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USnavy
Mar 15, 2010, 5:02 AM
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rubber_man wrote: yodadave wrote: if it breaches numerous patents does that mean they 're gonna get sued? possibly, depends on if madrock wants to press charges. The term "press charges" most commonly refers to criminal conduct. I strongly doubt the police give a damn about this and its extremely unlikely any criminal charges would come of this. A civil lawsuit is possible though.
(This post was edited by USnavy on Mar 15, 2010, 5:02 AM)
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cracklover
Mar 15, 2010, 4:29 PM
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rubber_man wrote: yodadave wrote: if it breaches numerous patents does that mean they 're gonna get sued? possibly, depends on if madrock wants to press charges. In China? Bwahahahahahahahahahahha! That's a good one! GO
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caughtinside
Mar 15, 2010, 4:41 PM
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cracklover wrote: rubber_man wrote: yodadave wrote: if it breaches numerous patents does that mean they 're gonna get sued? possibly, depends on if madrock wants to press charges. In China? Bwahahahahahahahahahahha! That's a good one! GO Well, both countries sell shoes in the US? Doesn't seem like it would be that hard to get an injunction against climb x in the US, so they couldn't sell those shoes here.
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cracklover
Mar 15, 2010, 5:32 PM
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caughtinside wrote: cracklover wrote: rubber_man wrote: yodadave wrote: if it breaches numerous patents does that mean they 're gonna get sued? possibly, depends on if madrock wants to press charges. In China? Bwahahahahahahahahahahha! That's a good one! GO Well, both countries sell shoes in the US? Doesn't seem like it would be that hard to get an injunction against climb x in the US, so they couldn't sell those shoes here. Really? An injunction with whom? And define "hard". Wouldn't you have to prove both patent infringement and that one is the owner of the patent and the other isn't? Hard to do when neither company is based in the US, and both claim to be the patent owners. GO
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caughtinside
Mar 15, 2010, 5:42 PM
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cracklover wrote: caughtinside wrote: cracklover wrote: rubber_man wrote: yodadave wrote: if it breaches numerous patents does that mean they 're gonna get sued? possibly, depends on if madrock wants to press charges. In China? Bwahahahahahahahahahahha! That's a good one! GO Well, both countries sell shoes in the US? Doesn't seem like it would be that hard to get an injunction against climb x in the US, so they couldn't sell those shoes here. Really? An injunction with whom? And define "hard". Wouldn't you have to prove both patent infringement and that one is the owner of the patent and the other isn't? Hard to do when neither company is based in the US, and both claim to be the patent owners. GO My mistake. You are correct, this sort of business chicanery is clearly outside the scope of US law. I expect to see identical Mad Rock and Climb X shoes coming soon to a store near you.
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pfwein
Mar 15, 2010, 6:01 PM
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cracklover wrote: caughtinside wrote: cracklover wrote: rubber_man wrote: yodadave wrote: if it breaches numerous patents does that mean they 're gonna get sued? possibly, depends on if madrock wants to press charges. In China? Bwahahahahahahahahahahha! That's a good one! GO Well, both countries sell shoes in the US? Doesn't seem like it would be that hard to get an injunction against climb x in the US, so they couldn't sell those shoes here. Really? An injunction with whom? And define "hard". Wouldn't you have to prove both patent infringement and that one is the owner of the patent and the other isn't? Hard to do when neither company is based in the US, and both claim to be the patent owners. GO I would doubt that any of the relevant shoes are protected by patents. While it's possible for a utility patent to cover an inventive aspect of a shoe or a design patent to cover its appearance, a patent is only granted after filing an application with the USPTO and it being examined and approved. It can a relatively time consuming and expensive process, and it only protects inventive aspects. Cheap, knock-off type products aren't usually protected by patents. If somehow any of the shoes are protected by the patents, the presumptive owner of the patent is the inventor (human being, not company). If there's a written assignment from the inventor, then the assignee is the owner. While there can be ownership disputes, being outside of the US doesn't raise any issues. Copyright law does not generally protect functional items such as shoes. There's an exception to every rule, and these are just general comments for anyone who may be interested in the intellectual property law aspects of this.
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billcoe_
Mar 15, 2010, 7:43 PM
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rubber_man wrote: if it breaches numerous patents does that mean they 're gonna get sued? In reply to: possibly, depends on if madrock wants to press charges. That's should be IF ANY patents are breached. Mad Rock basically appeared to me to be copy's of others work. What shoe patents does Mad Rock hold that they think are being violated? I wonder if there is room for both of these, or, if in attacking the others markets, they both self destruct....should be interesting to look back in 5 years and see if either of them is still standing.
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madrockclimbing
Mar 15, 2010, 7:45 PM
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PRESS RELEASE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Mad Rock Sheds Some Weight and Passes Savings on to Customers Santa Fe Springs, CA February 5, 2010: Mad Rock is pleased to announce Kenny Suh, who has been with Mad Rock since 2007, as head of the company’s global sales and marketing team. Joseph Garland, a contracted sales rep with Mad Rock, announced his departure early January. Mad Rock’s sole owner and president Young Chu assures his customers that operations will resume as normal. “Our in-house staff as well as the US and International sales team is excited about the changes and look forward to an even better 2010.” Factory Mad Rock Climbing is happy to announce that the move from China to Vietnam was a success. “Even though the transition was difficult, it was a necessary move in the face of overwhelming price increases in China. We will be able to pass on savings to the dealers and consumers while maintaining quality and innovation, which has been the cornerstone of Mad Rock’s philosophy.” Mad Rock Climbing is issuing a customer and team athlete alert for Climb X products. Climb X products are imitation made with the intention to deceive the consumer into believing it to be genuine Mad Rock products. Mad Rock and its parent company Nelson Sports Inc. has NO affiliation with Climb X or its products, which violates numerous patent and copyright laws. We encourage any customers who have been approached by Climb X to contact us immediately. Here's a link to very reliable news article written on SNews.com, an outdoor industry new source. You have to sign in, but it's free. https://www.snewsnet.com/SNEWSFreebie/MadRockFriend.html
(This post was edited by madrockclimbing on Mar 15, 2010, 7:48 PM)
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billcoe_
Mar 15, 2010, 7:56 PM
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What savings? I just went to your site and it looks like you're still selling shoes that cost $5.00 or so to make, for $80-$100.
(This post was edited by billcoe_ on Mar 15, 2010, 7:56 PM)
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madrockclimbing
Mar 15, 2010, 8:45 PM
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madrockclimbing wrote: PRESS RELEASE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Mad Rock Sheds Some Weight and Passes Savings on to Customers Santa Fe Springs, CA February 5, 2010: Mad Rock is pleased to announce Kenny Suh, who has been with Mad Rock since 2007, as head of the company’s global sales and marketing team. Joseph Garland, a contracted sales rep with Mad Rock, announced his departure early January. Mad Rock’s sole owner and president Young Chu assures his customers that operations will resume as normal. “Our in-house staff as well as the US and International sales team is excited about the changes and look forward to an even better 2010.” Factory Mad Rock Climbing is happy to announce that the move from China to Vietnam was a success. “Even though the transition was difficult, it was a necessary move in the face of overwhelming price increases in China. We will be able to pass on savings to the dealers and consumers while maintaining quality and innovation, which has been the cornerstone of Mad Rock’s philosophy.” Mad Rock Climbing is issuing a customer and team athlete alert for Climb X products. Climb X products are imitation made with the intention to deceive the consumer into believing it to be genuine Mad Rock products. Mad Rock and its parent company Nelson Sports Inc. has NO affiliation with Climb X or its products, which violates numerous patent and copyright laws. We encourage any customers who have been approached by Climb X to contact us immediately. Here's a link to very reliable news article written on SNews.com, an outdoor industry new source. You have to sign in, but it's free. https://www.snewsnet.com/SNEWSFreebie/MadRockFriend.html As for the patent violations, Young Chu is the holder of four US patents as an inventor, three that pertain to climbing and with many more that are pending. Concave sole for climbing shoes 3D Hooking heel for climbing shoes Safety Buckle
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jbro_135
Mar 15, 2010, 8:57 PM
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congratulations on your new vietnamese sweatshop, i am pleased to hear that no chinese workers will be making decent wages
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angry
Mar 16, 2010, 12:53 AM
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So basically we have two people arguing about whose shit smells the most like roses when in fact, the nearby roses aren't all that hard to get. Fuck Madrock. Fuck Climb X.
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shoo
Mar 16, 2010, 1:09 AM
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angry wrote: So basically we have two people arguing about whose shit smells the most like roses when in fact, the nearby roses aren't all that hard to get. Fuck Madrock. Fuck Climb X. +1
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curt
Mar 16, 2010, 2:29 AM
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I actually sort of like MadRock--or whichever one of these entities used to be the real MadRock. Their stuff was OK for its price point--and they did keep other manufacturers honest with regard to pricing. Conversely, there is something about Karma that is also intrinsically appealing to me. Climb X fucking over MadRock who previously fucked over 5.10 and all of that. Curt
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pfwein
Mar 16, 2010, 2:56 AM
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madrockclimbing wrote: madrockclimbing wrote: PRESS RELEASE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Mad Rock Sheds Some Weight and Passes Savings on to Customers Santa Fe Springs, CA February 5, 2010: Mad Rock is pleased to announce Kenny Suh, who has been with Mad Rock since 2007, as head of the company’s global sales and marketing team. Joseph Garland, a contracted sales rep with Mad Rock, announced his departure early January. Mad Rock’s sole owner and president Young Chu assures his customers that operations will resume as normal. “Our in-house staff as well as the US and International sales team is excited about the changes and look forward to an even better 2010.” Factory Mad Rock Climbing is happy to announce that the move from China to Vietnam was a success. “Even though the transition was difficult, it was a necessary move in the face of overwhelming price increases in China. We will be able to pass on savings to the dealers and consumers while maintaining quality and innovation, which has been the cornerstone of Mad Rock’s philosophy.” Mad Rock Climbing is issuing a customer and team athlete alert for Climb X products. Climb X products are imitation made with the intention to deceive the consumer into believing it to be genuine Mad Rock products. Mad Rock and its parent company Nelson Sports Inc. has NO affiliation with Climb X or its products, which violates numerous patent and copyright laws. We encourage any customers who have been approached by Climb X to contact us immediately. Here's a link to very reliable news article written on SNews.com, an outdoor industry new source. You have to sign in, but it's free. https://www.snewsnet.com/SNEWSFreebie/MadRockFriend.html As for the patent violations, Young Chu is the holder of four US patents as an inventor, three that pertain to climbing and with many more that are pending. Concave sole for climbing shoes 3D Hooking heel for climbing shoes Safety Buckle OK, my guess that Madrock doesn't own patents was wrong. Thanks for clearing that up. (This of course doesn't mean that Climb X is infringing those patents--that's a different issue.) For all you Madrock haters, its ownership of patents doesn't prove anything, but it does show that Madrock took the time and expense to convince a patent examiner that it made novel and inventive contributions to climbing technology, and it's not consistent with the view that all Madrock did was rip off other companies. Good luck to MadRock! (And I hope the MadRock biners I bought don't fall apart.)
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gogo
Mar 16, 2010, 2:31 PM
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Man, i haven't posted to RC.com in a long time, but having an extra few minutes this morning and looking at this thread, kinda has me taking this bait. Why is there so much anger against Mad Rock on this site? It's weird, it's like a rockclimbing.com specific bias for certain companies over other ones. I've climbed in a decent amount of shoes, and honestly I've never found a shoe that in-and-of-itself makes me a better or worse climber. I've seen many, many climbers make excuses for themselves based on the shoes - oftentimes I hear a lot of people complain about shoe quality and durability, but never question their footwork. Wouldn't you assume that if all Mad Rock shoes were low-quality, then no strong climbers would use them? Yet many of the top 10 finishers at ABS and SCS wear them - Sacha DeJulian won SCS nationals this year in Mad Rocks. I feel the same sentiment gets thrown at Boreal for their rubber - isn't it weird that Andrada, Marin, and a lot of other 5.15 climbers shut down projects in Boreal? I mean, if they are climbing at the level to where they are repeatedly shown in magazines and literally do climb full-time, they would have absolute pick of shoe sponsorship. If their company was really not producing decent products, what reason would there be to stay? And as a separate point - climbing shoes are expensive. Mad Rock puts out a lot of shoes at a decently low price, yet can climb well - there is no reason that one couldn't climb 5.13 in basic Flashes. Do people think all climbers should start out by buying Miuras? Would that make people better climbers, or just promote this strange climbing-shoe-elitism?
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taydude
Mar 16, 2010, 3:12 PM
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gogo wrote: Man, i haven't posted to RC.com in a long time, but having an extra few minutes this morning and looking at this thread, kinda has me taking this bait. Why is there so much anger against Mad Rock on this site? It's weird, it's like a rockclimbing.com specific bias for certain companies over other ones. I've climbed in a decent amount of shoes, and honestly I've never found a shoe that in-and-of-itself makes me a better or worse climber. I've seen many, many climbers make excuses for themselves based on the shoes - oftentimes I hear a lot of people complain about shoe quality and durability, but never question their footwork. Wouldn't you assume that if all Mad Rock shoes were low-quality, then no strong climbers would use them? Yet many of the top 10 finishers at ABS and SCS wear them - Sacha DeJulian won SCS nationals this year in Mad Rocks. I feel the same sentiment gets thrown at Boreal for their rubber - isn't it weird that Andrada, Marin, and a lot of other 5.15 climbers shut down projects in Boreal? I mean, if they are climbing at the level to where they are repeatedly shown in magazines and literally do climb full-time, they would have absolute pick of shoe sponsorship. If their company was really not producing decent products, what reason would there be to stay? And as a separate point - climbing shoes are expensive. Mad Rock puts out a lot of shoes at a decently low price, yet can climb well - there is no reason that one couldn't climb 5.13 in basic Flashes. Do people think all climbers should start out by buying Miuras? Would that make people better climbers, or just promote this strange climbing-shoe-elitism? Dude if someone is going to offer you free unlimited shoes do you care about the rubber quality? The top guys in the sport don't need certain shoes to climb hard. Sharma sent Dreamcatcher in moccasyms. Definitely not the ideal shoe to wear on a route requiring so much heel hooking. They're going to wear the shoes of the company offering them the most money/best deal. That being said, mad rocks suck. I've watched so many people destroy their mad rocks in weeks. I don't care about their rubber since the shoes themselves fall apart so fast. You get what you pay for though.
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qwert
Mar 16, 2010, 4:00 PM
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Actually there are rumors that many of the top athletes resole their sponsor issued shoes with "good" nonsponsored rubber ... And to not be completely off topic: Tow of my friends have madrock shoes (among others). Both use those shoes intensively and often and they hold up quite well (apart from the velcros). Actually the madrocks are the shoes they have used the longest so far ... so there seem to be some madrocks that are holding up very well. So if they fit (most important thing anyways!) and you are ok with them manufacturing in china or vietnam or wherever, then go for it. If you are not ok with the last part however, be carefull! they are not the only ones producing in china. Even a lot of the italians have production lines in china for their cheaper stuff. qwert
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gogo
Mar 16, 2010, 4:47 PM
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Guess I'll play this game a little longer. The top guys in the sport do not need specific shoes to climb the world's hardest climbs. I agree. But doesn't that also means the average climber does not need specific shoes to climb average climbs? And unlimited free shoes is nice - but if Mad Rock was really as bad as some people on this site claim, why would anyone use them? People talk as if the shoes themselves will some how make your climbing ability go down... I also know people who have blown out shoes in weeks, from different brands. It is generally technique. Likewise, I've seen people climb very hard in all different brands, and it is generally technique. Good footwork can make any pair of shoes last. And w/ the manufacturing - many companies manufacture in China and SE Asia. Sportiva's site lists factories in China and Vietnam. It does not automatically mean that quality will be low; how many products in general get made overseas and used in the U.S.? How many climbing shoe companies manufacture overseas also? Caldwell ripped apart several pairs of Miuras on one trip on El Cap. Does that mean they are poorly made?
(This post was edited by gogo on Mar 16, 2010, 4:48 PM)
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cracklover
Mar 16, 2010, 4:57 PM
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gogo wrote: Guess I'll play this game a little longer. The top guys in the sport do not need specific shoes to climb the world's hardest climbs. I agree. But doesn't that also means the average climber does not need specific shoes to climb average climbs? And unlimited free shoes is nice - but if Mad Rock was really as bad as some people on this site claim, why would anyone use them? People talk as if the shoes themselves will some how make your climbing ability go down... I also know people who have blown out shoes in weeks, from different brands. It is generally technique. Likewise, I've seen people climb very hard in all different brands, and it is generally technique. Good footwork can make any pair of shoes last. And w/ the manufacturing - many companies manufacture in China and SE Asia. Sportiva's site lists factories in China and Vietnam. It does not automatically mean that quality will be low; how many products in general get made overseas and used in the U.S.? How many climbing shoe companies manufacture overseas also? Caldwell ripped apart several pairs of Miuras on one trip on El Cap. Does that mean they are poorly made? I'm sorry, but the personal experience of myself and many others here says that you're just plain wrong. Shoes *do* make a difference, and some really are higher quality than others, in all sorts of ways. GO
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jt512
Mar 16, 2010, 5:00 PM
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People would have a more favorable opinion of Mad Rock if they realized that their shoes were actually manufactured by Mad Rock, even if they are a different brand.
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gogo
Mar 16, 2010, 5:01 PM
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To each their own, I guess. I've had a lot of positive experiences with Mad Rock and know many climbers that have also. I'm sorry to hear yours has not been the same.
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Shroom
Mar 16, 2010, 5:05 PM
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jt512 wrote: People would have a more favorable opinion of Mad Rock if they realized that their shoes were actually manufactured by Mad Rock, even if they are a different brand. Interesting. Do you have links to support this? Does MR make the shoes, or do they all get made by some sweat shop who also happens to make MR?
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jt512
Mar 16, 2010, 5:16 PM
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Shroom wrote: jt512 wrote: People would have a more favorable opinion of Mad Rock if they realized that their shoes were actually manufactured by Mad Rock, even if they are a different brand. Interesting. Do you have links to support this? Does MR make the shoes, or do they all get made by some sweat shop who also happens to make MR? Mad Rock is the actual manufacturer. They own the factory. No links. Information is from personal communication. Jay
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KirbyC
Mar 16, 2010, 5:45 PM
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Ooh come on, any more hints you can give us? :D This sounds juicy..
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gosharks
Mar 17, 2010, 2:35 AM
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gogo wrote: Mad Rock puts out a lot of shoes at a decently low price, yet can climb well - there is no reason that one couldn't climb 5.13 in basic Flashes. Been there, done that. I have no issues (through 5 years?) at all with workmanship on MR shoes. Now their ropebag on the other hand... If I were to do that again, I would prob just spring for another Metolius. The difference in quality between the two is much larger than the price difference.
(This post was edited by gosharks on Mar 17, 2010, 2:37 AM)
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angry
Mar 17, 2010, 2:41 AM
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gosharks wrote: gogo wrote: Mad Rock puts out a lot of shoes at a decently low price, yet can climb well - there is no reason that one couldn't climb 5.13 in basic Flashes. Been there, done that. I have no issues (through 5 years?) at all with workmanship on MR shoes. Now their ropebag on the other hand... If I were to do that again, I would prob just spring for another Metolius. The difference in quality between the two is much larger than the price difference. That's what I'm saying. I don't care about the shoes but their rope bag, haulbag, harnesses, and biners are nowhere near the quality of the other brands. Not even close.
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jt512
Mar 17, 2010, 2:58 AM
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angry wrote: gosharks wrote: gogo wrote: Mad Rock puts out a lot of shoes at a decently low price, yet can climb well - there is no reason that one couldn't climb 5.13 in basic Flashes. Been there, done that. I have no issues (through 5 years?) at all with workmanship on MR shoes. Now their ropebag on the other hand... If I were to do that again, I would prob just spring for another Metolius. The difference in quality between the two is much larger than the price difference. That's what I'm saying. I don't care about the shoes but their rope bag, haulbag, harnesses, and biners are nowhere near the quality of the other brands. Not even close. Makes me wonder about their hangers. Jay
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angry
Mar 17, 2010, 12:18 PM
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jt512 wrote: angry wrote: gosharks wrote: gogo wrote: Mad Rock puts out a lot of shoes at a decently low price, yet can climb well - there is no reason that one couldn't climb 5.13 in basic Flashes. Been there, done that. I have no issues (through 5 years?) at all with workmanship on MR shoes. Now their ropebag on the other hand... If I were to do that again, I would prob just spring for another Metolius. The difference in quality between the two is much larger than the price difference. That's what I'm saying. I don't care about the shoes but their rope bag, haulbag, harnesses, and biners are nowhere near the quality of the other brands. Not even close. Makes me wonder about their hangers. Jay Seeing as the hangers have no gate, they should be fine.
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darkgift06
Aug 18, 2010, 5:15 PM
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theres a big add in Gripped this month for Climb X... & The prices are wicked cheep & they say they match us$ to Canadian$.
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Kinobi
Aug 25, 2010, 6:35 PM
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qwert wrote: ... If you are not ok with the last part however, be carefull! they are not the only ones producing in china. Even a lot of the italians have production lines in china for their cheaper stuff. qwert Uncorrect.. ONLY La Sportiva does it. And mainly for US market. E Italy.
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P-Dud
Dec 6, 2010, 12:52 AM
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angry wrote: jt512 wrote: angry wrote: gosharks wrote: gogo wrote: Mad Rock puts out a lot of shoes at a decently low price, yet can climb well - there is no reason that one couldn't climb 5.13 in basic Flashes. Been there, done that. I have no issues (through 5 years?) at all with workmanship on MR shoes. Now their ropebag on the other hand... If I were to do that again, I would prob just spring for another Metolius. The difference in quality between the two is much larger than the price difference. That's what I'm saying. I don't care about the shoes but their rope bag, haulbag, harnesses, and biners are nowhere near the quality of the other brands. Not even close. Makes me wonder about their hangers. Jay Seeing as the hangers have no gate, they should be fine. Really, really... sez who? I would have to agree that one of the rope bags I owned left a lot to be desired. The quality of the stitching was sub par. I do prefer my Metolius rope bags. Other than that, please inform me of a noted failure of one of the other quoted products. Which biner has ever failed? Please, any incident report? Anytime there have been recalls with MR biners? Any of them? Any reports of them falling apart? How about those lousy harnesses? Anything? How many haul bags of theirs have you used that have fallen apart? How many reported haul bag failures have there been on a wall? You people are so fucin stupid! Haters! They generally have good products with great prices, period. They are a company that makes shoes and other climbing products that I have used extensively for years and have never had a problem. Never a problem with the chalk bags, slings, belay device, chalk pod or biners (locking & non-locking). Never. I know a lot of people who have MR shoes, harnesses and biners and none have ever had a problem with any of them. I have owned 5.10, Boreal, La Sportiva, Evolve and Mad Rock shoes. The only ones that ever let me down were the Boreal & La Sportiva. The only time that I have heard criticisms about the quality of the products it is from one retailer and ALL the rest have been from individuals who have never used a single MR product, rather they have HEARD this and/or that or from choads like you. So “Angry”, you dumb fuc, how many of their biners that you have owned have failed? Which harness do you have that has failed? How many of their haul bags do you own that have blown out. You and your type make me want to puke? Ignorant, inbred, misinformation inciting, choads! And I’m trying to be nice.
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curt
Dec 6, 2010, 1:15 AM
Post #40 of 48
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Registered: Aug 27, 2002
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P-Dud wrote: ...I know a lot of people who have MR shoes, harnesses and biners and none have ever had a problem with any of them... Liar. Curt
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johnwesely
Dec 6, 2010, 2:51 AM
Post #41 of 48
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Registered: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 5360
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curt wrote: P-Dud wrote: ...I know a lot of people who have MR shoes, harnesses and biners and none have ever had a problem with any of them... Liar. Curt Dude joined the site to attack someone who doesn't even post here anymore. Classy.
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Gmburns2000
Dec 6, 2010, 3:33 AM
Post #42 of 48
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Registered: Mar 6, 2007
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KirbyC wrote: Ooh come on, any more hints you can give us? :D This sounds juicy.. Late response to an old post, but it's not as juicy as you might think. While I can't give more than the example noted below, I find it hard to believe they (and possibly madrock) are the only example. Giant manufactures a significant amount of the low-to-mid range non-pro ($1000 and under) mountain bikes for companies such as Trek, Specialized, etc. I know this from my personal experience working in that industry (so no links). Things may have changed since then, but as I remember Giant was the largest mountain bike manufacturer in the world at the time, manufacturing most of the bikes one sees on the trail, except those bikes don't get the Giant brand slapped on the downtube. So seeing that MR possibly makes another company's shoes doesn't even make me blink.
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qwert
Dec 6, 2010, 9:57 AM
Post #43 of 48
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Registered: Mar 24, 2004
Posts: 2394
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P-Dud wrote: angry wrote: jt512 wrote: angry wrote: gosharks wrote: gogo wrote: Mad Rock puts out a lot of shoes at a decently low price, yet can climb well - there is no reason that one couldn't climb 5.13 in basic Flashes. Been there, done that. I have no issues (through 5 years?) at all with workmanship on MR shoes. Now their ropebag on the other hand... If I were to do that again, I would prob just spring for another Metolius. The difference in quality between the two is much larger than the price difference. That's what I'm saying. I don't care about the shoes but their rope bag, haulbag, harnesses, and biners are nowhere near the quality of the other brands. Not even close. Makes me wonder about their hangers. Jay Seeing as the hangers have no gate, they should be fine. Really, really... sez who? I would have to agree that one of the rope bags I owned left a lot to be desired. The quality of the stitching was sub par. I do prefer my Metolius rope bags. Other than that, please inform me of a noted failure of one of the other quoted products. Which biner has ever failed? Please, any incident report? Anytime there have been recalls with MR biners? Any of them? Any reports of them falling apart? How about those lousy harnesses? Anything? How many haul bags of theirs have you used that have fallen apart? How many reported haul bag failures have there been on a wall? You people are so fucin stupid! Haters! They generally have good products with great prices, period. They are a company that makes shoes and other climbing products that I have used extensively for years and have never had a problem. Never a problem with the chalk bags, slings, belay device, chalk pod or biners (locking & non-locking). Never. I know a lot of people who have MR shoes, harnesses and biners and none have ever had a problem with any of them. I have owned 5.10, Boreal, La Sportiva, Evolve and Mad Rock shoes. The only ones that ever let me down were the Boreal & La Sportiva. The only time that I have heard criticisms about the quality of the products it is from one retailer and ALL the rest have been from individuals who have never used a single MR product, rather they have HEARD this and/or that or from choads like you. So “Angry”, you dumb fuc, how many of their biners that you have owned have failed? Which harness do you have that has failed? How many of their haul bags do you own that have blown out. You and your type make me want to puke? Ignorant, inbred, misinformation inciting, choads! And I’m trying to be nice. Saved qwert
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P-Dud
Dec 6, 2010, 11:30 PM
Post #44 of 48
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Registered: Aug 11, 2010
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johnwesely wrote: curt wrote: P-Dud wrote: ...I know a lot of people who have MR shoes, harnesses and biners and none have ever had a problem with any of them... Liar. Curt Dude joined the site to attack someone who doesn't even post here anymore. Classy. That's part of my hyphenated middle name, Classy-Liar! To be fair, I have to say that I have the utmost respect for the inbred Angry. The man sent me a personal e-mail and spelled out his experiences. Now that IS classy. I can fully see where he is coming from considering what he has dealt with. I wish he would share the experiences to back his views here. It is odd though, when you look at some of his past posts, there is positive reviews regarding Mad Rock products. What gives? Yes, johnwesley, I did join just to attack someone! Ya gotta start somewhere. What better way than to see who gets suckered into some drama... Telling. It's a rock climbing forum fer christ sakes... don't take things so personally or seriously! Angry- Thanks for the tip! You were right, it IS way better than it sounds! And, I would prefer Mr. Pud! There is nothing that should be taken personally unless I know you personally!
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Pedrolius
May 17, 2013, 6:24 AM
Post #45 of 48
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Registered: May 17, 2013
Posts: 13
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Now the flame wars have frozen (?)... Has anyone used Climb X shoes recently?? Bought/tried some, and able to give me an honest pro/con opinion? Live in China now and they are pretty cheap. Almost everyone here seems to climb in them. Most are using the simple entry level Climb X "beginner" shoes, and some are even boosting up things that are 8a, 8b... My first two pairs of shoes were MadRock shoes (locos), Complaints: took a while to wear in/soften the hard sole for grip, and everything that was superficial and could fall off without the performance being effected did fall off. Other than that meh, they were a climbing shoe that suited my foot. Gone through a few 5.10s and la sportivas since then. Is it just shoe eliteism that makes me hesitate or will I be disappointed with a $50 dollar purchase?
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bearbreeder
May 17, 2013, 6:41 AM
Post #46 of 48
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Registered: Feb 2, 2009
Posts: 1960
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Pedrolius wrote: Now the flame wars have frozen (?)... Has anyone used Climb X shoes recently?? Bought/tried some, and able to give me an honest pro/con opinion? Live in China now and they are pretty cheap. Almost everyone here seems to climb in them. Most are using the simple entry level Climb X "beginner" shoes, and some are even boosting up things that are 8a, 8b... My first two pairs of shoes were MadRock shoes (locos), Complaints: took a while to wear in/soften the hard sole for grip, and everything that was superficial and could fall off without the performance being effected did fall off. Other than that meh, they were a climbing shoe that suited my foot. Gone through a few 5.10s and la sportivas since then. Is it just shoe eliteism that makes me hesitate or will I be disappointed with a $50 dollar purchase? i wear the climbx drifters ... they work as well as most other shoes i own ... and they cost me 50 smackaroos im not saying they are the best shoes in the world, but i can do 5.11+ trad in em just fine ... they arent whats limiting me as you can see i have some minor experience with different shoes
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Pedrolius
May 17, 2013, 7:08 AM
Post #47 of 48
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Registered: May 17, 2013
Posts: 13
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Thanks for your quick reply! From your minor experience shared I think I will just go ahead and get some climb x shoes.... I'm not cheap... wait yes I am. Rephrasing. I don't mind spending extra on gear that relates to safety. But a shoe failure doesn't usually kill...
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notapplicable
May 17, 2013, 6:30 PM
Post #48 of 48
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Registered: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 17771
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jt512 wrote: angry wrote: gosharks wrote: gogo wrote: Mad Rock puts out a lot of shoes at a decently low price, yet can climb well - there is no reason that one couldn't climb 5.13 in basic Flashes. Been there, done that. I have no issues (through 5 years?) at all with workmanship on MR shoes. Now their ropebag on the other hand... If I were to do that again, I would prob just spring for another Metolius. The difference in quality between the two is much larger than the price difference. That's what I'm saying. I don't care about the shoes but their rope bag, haulbag, harnesses, and biners are nowhere near the quality of the other brands. Not even close. Makes me wonder about their hangers. Jay Heh heh heh http://www.rockclimbing.com/...0;page=unread#unread
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