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quiteatingmysteak
Mar 24, 2010, 7:22 AM
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olderic wrote: dynosore wrote: For me the gut wrencher, looking at my 9 month old whom I love more than anything in this world, is "what if I teach him to climb and it kills him someday"? Haven't resolved how to handle this one yet, luckily I have a few years. I didn't want to get sucked into this thread because it is mostly the same old same old that has been hashed out many times before. But this one struck a cord. A couple of my kids did end up as climbers (and a couple others did not) they weren't pushed (too much) but certainly encouraged when they showed interest. Will my son has turned into a prolific climber beyond anything I could have imagined. And that has led to some very uncomfortable moments: 1. belaying when he is leading a 12d/13a trad climb while placing the gear (it had previously only been led on pre-placed gear). 2. Decidng we need to solo the next 1000 feet of 5th class alpine rock because night is falling. 3. Hearing "you know I always used to beat Alex Hannold in the comps...". All true. All things you would do (or listen to) from an equal partner. Not the type of things you want to be doing with your kid. Be careful of what you wish for.
I have to comment on this, because though I don't have children (should be obvious from the above post :D) I have a younger brother who climbs with me from time to time. Most of the time I do the leading, or whatever, but sometimes he'll jump on the sharp end. When I climb with people, they are CLIMBING PARTNERS, not brother/friend/dad/mom/sister. The relationship is different, and I force myself into being an even half of a working dynamic.
However, every once in a while, I'll watch his foot pop out on lead on some sketchy gear, and go "OH SH!T THATS THE LITTLE GUY!!!"
How you can belay your son on a 12d trad route is beyond me! But good for him, and good for you.
Side note, my mom met alex honnold at the Red Rox Rendezvoo and he talked to her for like 20 minutes about taking HIS mom out climbing and what a blast it was. Mum was very impressed with the lad!
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clee03m
Mar 25, 2010, 8:17 PM
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Hi, I'm married to a non-climber and about to have a baby any day. Just wanted to let you know our weekend arrangement. We have a 3 weekend cycle: my weekend, his weekend, family weekend. During my weekend, I am free to do as I please and my husband would take care of the kid. While I am breastfeeding, he will come with me to the crag and take care of the kid and belay when I am feeding the baby. On his weekend, I can climb as long as I take care of the baby. On our family weekend, I won't climb and do something we both enjoy. We have a similar cycle for weekday as well. My husband has said more than once how nice he thinks we have this arrangement because he likes the idea of being able to have hobbies independent of fatherhood.
I have both climbers and non-climbers as friends, and everyone has been very supportive of my choice to climb both in pregnancy and beyond. While climbing may be more dangerous than playing golf, being inactive and unhappy isn't very good for your health, either. Just make sure your wife gets her equal share of her own time and climb.
And I know, I know, things might change when the baby is here because I may not want to leave the baby with anyone even if it is his own father, blablabla. Still doesn't hurt to plan with what I can see as the most likely future.
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davidnn5
Mar 25, 2010, 8:23 PM
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clee03m wrote: Hi, I'm married to a non-climber and about to have a baby any day. Just wanted to let you know our weekend arrangement. We have a 3 weekend cycle: my weekend, his weekend, family weekend. During my weekend, I am free to do as I please and my husband would take care of the kid. While I am breastfeeding, he will come with me to the crag and take care of the kid and belay when I am feeding the baby. On his weekend, I can climb as long as I take care of the baby. On our family weekend, I won't climb and do something we both enjoy. We have a similar cycle for weekday as well. My husband has said more than once how nice he thinks we have this arrangement because he likes the idea of being able to have hobbies independent of fatherhood.
Heh. This all sounds a bit... Farfetched. Reading the bolded text, it sounds like your husband is going to belay you while you're climbing and feeding the baby?
I also can't see the obligatory x months/years of "wtf this has completely turned my life upside down and even going SHOPPING has become incredibly difficult to organise!"
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clee03m
Mar 26, 2010, 2:19 PM
Post #29 of 51
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Good god, no. Even I'm not that optimistic. My husband will belay my climbing partners when I'm unavailable because I'm breast feeding. We used to climb quiet a bit together so he is a competent belayer. He will otherwise babysit when I'm climbing or belaying not feeding.
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dynosore
Mar 26, 2010, 2:44 PM
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kovacs69 wrote: dynosore wrote: I'm in almost the exact same boat as you, kidwise, agewise, length of time climbing etc. I never had any intention of stopping climbing. My wife is ok with it, and I agreed to be extra careful and scaled back some of my plans. I look at it (ie rationalize it) this way: because I get my thrills climbing, I only drink wine, I don't smoke, or use drugs and I'm in great shape. If I didn't have climbing I would tend to find self destructive ways to cut loose like I did in the past. Like so many of you, I am not satisfied by a 8-5 suburban life, I need to blow off steam somehow. For me the gut wrencher, looking at my 9 month old whom I love more than anything in this world, is "what if I teach him to climb and it kills him someday"? Haven't resolved how to handle this one yet, luckily I have a few years. Good point...but "what if" you teach him to drive a car and he dies in a car wreck?? If you live by "what if's" you will not be living at all. I try to live like it will be my last day...someday it will be. Teach him to climb as safe as possible. You cannot protect them all of the time. All you can do is "your best" in the end. JB
Driving a car is necessary for the most part. Climbing is absolutely optional.
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kovacs69
Mar 26, 2010, 3:18 PM
Post #31 of 51
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dynosore wrote: kovacs69 wrote: dynosore wrote: I'm in almost the exact same boat as you, kidwise, agewise, length of time climbing etc. I never had any intention of stopping climbing. My wife is ok with it, and I agreed to be extra careful and scaled back some of my plans. I look at it (ie rationalize it) this way: because I get my thrills climbing, I only drink wine, I don't smoke, or use drugs and I'm in great shape. If I didn't have climbing I would tend to find self destructive ways to cut loose like I did in the past. Like so many of you, I am not satisfied by a 8-5 suburban life, I need to blow off steam somehow. For me the gut wrencher, looking at my 9 month old whom I love more than anything in this world, is "what if I teach him to climb and it kills him someday"? Haven't resolved how to handle this one yet, luckily I have a few years. Good point...but "what if" you teach him to drive a car and he dies in a car wreck?? If you live by "what if's" you will not be living at all. I try to live like it will be my last day...someday it will be. Teach him to climb as safe as possible. You cannot protect them all of the time. All you can do is "your best" in the end. JB Driving a car is necessary for the most part. Climbing is absolutely optional.
Ok...what if you teach him to ride a bike and he gets hit by a car, what if you teach him to play baseball and he gets hit in the head, what if you teach him to fly a kite and he gets hit by lightning? Life is full of "what if's". The point is you can not spend your time dwelling on the "what if's"...if you do you would never leave home...unless you live in tornado alley, hurricane zone or ...well you get the point.
JB
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dingus
Mar 26, 2010, 4:19 PM
Post #32 of 51
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No no no no climbing is not optional.
DMT
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climbingaz
Mar 26, 2010, 7:02 PM
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Great thread! My little boy is two years old today!!! Happy Birthday little buddy!
I'm not going to lie....becoming a parent has put a dent in my climbing, but I'm totally fine with that. I get out when I can (not as often as I used to), still get to the gym once or twice a week. But here is the thing...you just gotta incorporate the growing family into the sport.
My wife and I climbing Royal Arches when she was 4 months pregnant. My little boy has been to Yosemite twice, J-Tree once, all over the state of AZ. He goes to the gym with me and walks around in his harness.
I think the main difference is I cannot go do those all day, multi-pitch trad lines that I so love. Now it's mostly sport climbing crags...aurgh.
Oh, by the way, we're expecting our second little boy at the end of July!! 
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kovacs69
Mar 26, 2010, 7:30 PM
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Oh and I am more worried about my kids getting bitten by a venomous snake than I am of them falling while climbing. At least I have some control of the climbing aspect. Snakes can sneak in while you are distracted. Where I climb any kind of injury / snake bite can be fatal because of the time involved in getting out.
As you can see from my pictures I do run into quite a few snakes.
JB
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dingus
Mar 26, 2010, 8:02 PM
Post #35 of 51
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kovacs69 wrote: Oh and I am more worried about my kids getting bitten by a venomous snake than I am of them falling while climbing. At least I have some control of the climbing aspect. Snakes can sneak in while you are distracted. Where I climb any kind of injury / snake bite can be fatal because of the time involved in getting out. As you can see from my pictures I do run into quite a few snakes. JB
I am FAR FAR FAR more concerned by my kids getting poison oak than snake bit and we hang in prime rattlesnake country.
Peoples' fears of snakes are irrational, yours included.
DMT
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climbingaz
Mar 26, 2010, 8:08 PM
Post #36 of 51
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Oh, I almost forgot. My kid is a trad climber and doesn't care for quickdraws. You gotta bring 'em up right!! hahaaa
(This post was edited by climbingaz on Mar 26, 2010, 8:10 PM)
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karmiclimber
Mar 26, 2010, 8:36 PM
Post #37 of 51
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Don't give up climbing. Be there for your wife, especially in the first year. My daughter's father went climbing every weekened. Basically he told me I didn't matter because I wasn't good at climbing. Plus I made the decision to breastfeed...so it wasn't like I could just leave her. Anyway, he was an extra special douche...which is why we aren't together anymore. So don't lose your climbing, but don't lose your time with your child either...it goes REALLY fast. Good luck!
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kovacs69
Mar 26, 2010, 8:53 PM
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dingus wrote: kovacs69 wrote: Oh and I am more worried about my kids getting bitten by a venomous snake than I am of them falling while climbing. At least I have some control of the climbing aspect. Snakes can sneak in while you are distracted. Where I climb any kind of injury / snake bite can be fatal because of the time involved in getting out. As you can see from my pictures I do run into quite a few snakes. JB I am FAR FAR FAR more concerned by my kids getting poison oak than snake bit and we hang in prime rattlesnake country. Peoples' fears of snakes are irrational, yours included. DMT
DMT,
I am certainly not afraid of snakes. I love finding snakes and I can't wait to pass that on to my kids. But I know that kids will be curious before they will understand the dangers even if emphasized by me.
Hell the other day I saw a snake quickly making its departure into some underbrush. I reached out without thinking grabbed it by the tail and pulled it back out. My climbing partner, who is afraid of snakes, said "Who do you think your are, Steve Irwin?" I have to admit...I didn't even check to see what kind it was until it would have been too late. Lucky me it was a rat snake.
I can see my kids doing that. Can you imagine if it was a rattle-snake, water-moccasin or copperhead? I see these types of snakes all the time where I climb and where my kids would play around during a day of climbing.
As for poison ivy / poison oak...well there is an irrational fear. It can't even slither up on you and really won't take you by surprise. We have pretty much wiped it all out where we climb so I really don't worry about it.
JB
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dingus
Mar 26, 2010, 9:10 PM
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kovacs69 wrote: Hell the other day I saw a snake quickly making its departure into some underbrush.
Exactly.
In reply to: I reached out without thinking grabbed it by the tail and pulled it back out.
No WONDER you worry about your kids.
In reply to: As for poison ivy / poison oak...well there is an irrational fear.
Says the guy who grabs fleeing snakes by the tail, lol.
MY point about however, was not that poison oak is some menace, rather that snakes are even less so.
Hey, don't go grabbing no tiger by the tail brother!
DMT
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kovacs69
Mar 26, 2010, 9:29 PM
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dingus wrote: kovacs69 wrote: Hell the other day I saw a snake quickly making its departure into some underbrush. Exactly. In reply to: I reached out without thinking grabbed it by the tail and pulled it back out. No WONDER you worry about your kids. In reply to: As for poison ivy / poison oak...well there is an irrational fear. Says the guy who grabs fleeing snakes by the tail, lol. MY point about however, was not that poison oak is some menace, rather that snakes are even less so. Hey, don't go grabbing no tiger by the tail brother! DMT
If I don't grab it by the tail then nobody else will believe that it was there. I want to hold it for everyone else to see. Let me tell you...if I find big foot in the hills where I climb he better look out because I won't be grabbing him...I will be jumping on his back and holding on for dear life.
JB
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laurelja
Mar 26, 2010, 9:49 PM
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You go girl. Just as some wives can be bi*@hes about their hubbies leaving to climb, hubbies can be assw*#es too. I started climbing when my daughter was 7. She'd came to the gym with a book and a bag of M&M's and I'd climb as long as I felt she was having fun (she'd boulder occasionally). I never took her out, that was my time to focus on me and my partner and climbing. I never wanted any one to take care of her nor take care of anyone else's kid at the crags. We all make our decisions, find balance in what you want to do and what is right for you and your child (and spouse), and be happy about your choices. If you decide to have a child, decide how that will impact your life..your choice in conjunction with your child and spouse. Your climbing does not have to drop off, if it does don't bemoan what is naturally going to occur: finding balance between being a parent and spouse and your own needs.
She is 18 now and off at college and I can climb all the time.... I sure miss those times with her (climbing or not).
Life changes, it all good
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karmiclimber
Mar 26, 2010, 9:52 PM
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Exactly! Sounds like you did good by your daughter :-)
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baba44713
Mar 27, 2010, 9:30 AM
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Woah... thanks for all the feedback.
To address some issues:
The inherent risk, or perhaps perceived risk of climbing is what I'm worried about the most. I know that this activity is in reality very safe, or better said as safe as you make it to be taking into account the choice of partner, route etc., but the thing is I never actually thought about the risk until now. Or better said, it never really bothered me. In addition to climbing I ski, I cycle, I drive the frikkin car on the freeway. If we're talking statistic, everything is dangerous; climbing only makes this danger more obvious and palatable and easier to point out. However it's one thing when someone says I'm immature and irresponsible for putting my life in danger because of some early onset of midlife crisis - I was putting up with this for a long time and it never really bothered me. But when someone starts pointing out that I'm about to be a parent and to get my head together, THEN it starts bothering me.
A huge part of the problem is that almost all of my non-climbing friends are parents, while the vast majority my climbing friends aren't. Those few of the climbing variety that did get children simply phased out from our climbing gang somehow - adding to my paranoia.
As for the thing that my worry is neglecting my wife and child over climbing - this really isn't the issue for me. I love to climb, but it doesn't mean that I cannot put it on hold or slow it down. A training or two in the gym during the week, one weekend in a month or two on the rocks and I'm happy. Even pausing six months or a year completely does not concern me. However the notion of giving it up COMPLETELY is what I simply cannot fathom - packing my gear for good, saying goodbye to all of my climbing friends and joining the non-climbers and their neverending talks of how funny that thing their kid said yesterday was and how good it is to throw a BBQ party once in a while, all that fresh air and everything. Ugh.
So, again, thanks for all the feedback. I guess I am a little bit more encouraged to NOT give up climbing, even though - as someone said - all those folks who were in the similar situation and who did give up aren't really going to post here, right?
Cheers!
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dingus
Mar 27, 2010, 10:58 AM
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baba44713 wrote: As for the thing that my worry is neglecting my wife and child over climbing - this really isn't the issue for me. I love to climb, but it doesn't mean that I cannot put it on hold or slow it down. A training or two in the gym during the week, one weekend in a month or two on the rocks and I'm happy. Even pausing six months or a year completely does not concern me. However the notion of giving it up COMPLETELY is what I simply cannot fathom - packing my gear for good, saying goodbye to all of my climbing friends and joining the non-climbers and their neverending talks of how funny that thing their kid said yesterday was and how good it is to throw a BBQ party once in a while, all that fresh air and everything. Ugh.
These dudes went on an expedition. As they were sorting gear the team came on the case of Jack Daniels.
"I think that's TOO MUCH WHISKEY!" The lead guy said.
So off they went. All to soon our erstwhile leader learned... a case of Jack Daniels?
I wasn't nearly ENOUGH!
Now you don't be doing that 'once ever other month... or so.... dear.... is good for me! Why I can go SIX MONTHS DARLING, a YEAR!!!!!11111
See that spot on the couch? The worn spot on the TV remote <next> channel button? That middle aged fat guy with a teenager who 'just wants to get back into it?'
Don't let that be you man. Encroachment is not just a football penalty. Climbing encroachment is a serious malady!
DMT
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Kartessa
Mar 27, 2010, 4:08 PM
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Just my $0.02
Those non-climbing buddies who try to judge you and your choices can suck it. Those climbing buddies who gave up on something they love to stay home and let their identities be consumed by their new spouse and child can suck it too, they're pansies with no sense of self.
The first few months, you have no control in your life, baby will rule you and the easiest way to get through it is to go with the flow but once they can sleep through the night, has daily routines and the universe is at peace again, it'll be time to take back your life... Or at least a little piece of it.
I'm a single mum, with ZERO contact with the father (I like it that way, less drama), and when I'm not broken, I get out to the gym/cragging at least 2-3 times a week, usually with my son. I manage a nice out-of-towner sans baby once every two to three months too.
My grandmother always tells me that I'm being irresponsible and wreckless, but then again, she offers to babysit for me every Saturday. Maybe she does get it after all.
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karmiclimber
Mar 29, 2010, 1:09 PM
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Sounds like you have your head on straight. That is a totally normal fear! I went through that. I was afraid I would be injured (or worse yet, die) climbing and that would be selfish because my daughter needed me. The one thing that made me feel better? LOL....picking out godparents I really trusted and making a great will. Honestly, I think that will give you some good piece of mind. It is better to do what you love and risk injury or even your life, than sit at home fretting about death. You would want your daughter to LIVE her life...and you should give a good example :-)
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agparker
Mar 30, 2010, 3:52 AM
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Godparents...and half a million in life insurance.
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karmiclimber
Mar 30, 2010, 3:13 PM
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Yes, just make sure that "death by rockclimbing" is covered under your policy. Non-parents don't understand, but taking care of details like this will make or break my push for summit or decision to go for the next bolt on a run out climb.
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clee03m
Apr 11, 2010, 5:23 PM
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agparker wrote: Godparents...and half a million in life insurance.
LOL I was about to say the same thing. Good to know, while disability insurance seems to include a rock climbing exclusion for the most part, life insurance doesn't seem to have that. Actually a trust may not be a bad thing--in case both you and your spouse die.
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petsfed
Apr 11, 2010, 7:56 PM
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Speaking as a person without children, I really have no input.
However, as a child of happy parents, I can assure you that the only way to grow up in a healthy fashion is to have happy parents. "Staying together for the kids" leads kids to be deeply dysfunctional, as do a lot of other "for the kids" decisions.
Your kids will pick up on resentment, even if you don't. Obviously, a balance has to be struck between your responsibilities and your desires. But that balance is a lot more complex than just fulfilling physical needs like food and shelter. Parenting is about ensuring that your kids reach adulthood as healthy, happy (mostly) adults, not just ensuring that they reach adulthood alive. Make your parenting decisions accordingly.
The only bit of insight I have for you is that I was least happy with diminished climbing when it happened on somebody else's terms. If you climb less because you want to spend time with your kid and your child shows no interest in climbing, or is too young to climb, you'll probably be really comfortable with your choice. But if you climb less simply because of what other people say, you'll be miserable.
By the way, per hour spent doing it, climbing is MUCH more dangerous than driving. But per person doing it, climbing is safer than driving. Its just that the entire world spends A LOT more time driving than climbing, so the real impact is lost in the noise.
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