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Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop?
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hugepedro


Apr 27, 2010, 7:59 PM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
hugepedro wrote:

Well, if you have no means to tie into the anchor, other than the rope, then you are also carrying something that serves only a single, specialized purpose - that 4-8 feet of rope (which is way heavier than my rig).

huh? if you and I climb the same pitch, and I tie in with the rope, and you tie in with a PAS, then how is it that I'm carrying more? Cause, like, this isn't making any sense.

Or, T0

Well we arenít climbing the same pitches. Iím climbing longer ones than you because of the constraints of your system. Iím pwning you and gettin all the honeys.

Again, someone was mocking my degree of ďweight nazinessĒ because I carry an ďextraĒ 3 ounces. This was a hypothetical comparison to demonstrate that my system is actually lighter on a weight per useful length of rope basis (and probably lighter overall if they are doing routes that require full length rappels and arenít using twins or a skinnier rap cord).

Try re-reading some of the posts, and if you still donít get it then I probably canít help you.


dingus


Apr 27, 2010, 8:02 PM
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Re: [hugepedro] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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hugepedro wrote:
then I probably canít help you.

PROGRESS!

DMT


caughtinside


Apr 27, 2010, 8:18 PM
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Re: [hugepedro] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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hugepedro wrote:
I carry an ďextraĒ 3 ounces.

What?

Well, whatever works. I'd say like 3% or less of my pitches take every inch of the rope I've got. Don't really do that many double rope raps either.

But I'm going to plead ignorance too. I still have no idea what this purcell prusik is. Don't really care either. Never seen one, never read those n00b safety threads.

Slings. They're whats for dinner.


cjon3s


Apr 27, 2010, 8:35 PM
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Re: [hugepedro] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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Does it honestly matter? Your rope argument is ridiculous. As previously mentioned, how many pitches do you honestly lead that are the entire length of your rope?

And btw, I thought the PAS was nylon..?


hugepedro


Apr 27, 2010, 8:42 PM
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Re: [johnwesely] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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johnwesely wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
hugepedro wrote:

Well, if you have no means to tie into the anchor, other than the rope, then you are also carrying something that serves only a single, specialized purpose - that 4-8 feet of rope (which is way heavier than my rig).

huh? if you and I climb the same pitch, and I tie in with the rope, and you tie in with a PAS, then how is it that I'm carrying more? Cause, like, this isn't making any sense.

Or, T0

Because Pedro is so bad at making sense, I will try to explain. His point, at least I think, is that his system allows him to use twin ropes instead of bringing up a second rope for rappels, thus saving weight. However, I may be completely mistaken.

That's part of it. It doesn't "allow" me to use twin ropes, it makes it easier, and provides a whole bunch of other collateral benefits.

My criteria for my typical system are : Multi-pitch. Double rope rappels. Usually block leading. Saving weight. I want a system that handles those elegantly, and that uses the least amount of gear, while providing a high degree of flexibility, in the broadest of circumstances, from optimum to adverse (e.g. awkward belay stations, hanging belays, nighttime, speed critical, self-rescue, etc.).

In my experience (and Iíve used all the techniques mentioned in this thread) Iíve settled on twins as my optimum solution to the above criteria, and by using my rig instead of the ropes I get the following benefits:

- Itís easier/faster than clove-hitching 2 ropes.
- Easier to adjust than adjusting 2 clove hitches.
- Easier to adjust under load than a clove hitch.
- Easier to get my weight off the rope at a hanging belay. (Try clove hitching when youíre pumped and hanging on the rope on the first piece of what will become your anchor. I can clip my rig to that piece and get my weight off the rope, or I can place the second piece of my anchor and clip to that).
- Easier to switch ends of the rope (without changing the personal anchor, which would be adding a potential point for error).
- If my second is injured while following and I used all my slings on pro, my rig can be used to escape the belay and initiate a self-rescue.
- Under certain conditions I can use it as an emergency anchor rig.
- I have the full length of my ropes available.
- Even if Iím not block leading, if I have to go into that mode (injured partner?) I can do so and gain all the above efficiencies.


Plus, Iím getting all your honeys too.


potreroed


Apr 27, 2010, 8:44 PM
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Re: [caughtinside] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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caughtinside wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
I carry an ďextraĒ 3 ounces.

What?

Well, whatever works. I'd say like 3% or less of my pitches take every inch of the rope I've got. Don't really do that many double rope raps either.

But I'm going to plead ignorance too. I still have no idea what this purcell prusik is. Don't really care either. Never seen one, never read those n00b safety threads.

Slings. They're whats for dinner.

Just google the purcell prusick--they're very cool, although in the long run I like the PAS better. Ooops, I forgot, you're a sling guy who thinks the under-crotch daisy is a good idea.


caughtinside


Apr 27, 2010, 8:48 PM
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Re: [potreroed] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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potreroed wrote:
caughtinside wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
I carry an ďextraĒ 3 ounces.

What?

Well, whatever works. I'd say like 3% or less of my pitches take every inch of the rope I've got. Don't really do that many double rope raps either.

But I'm going to plead ignorance too. I still have no idea what this purcell prusik is. Don't really care either. Never seen one, never read those n00b safety threads.

Slings. They're whats for dinner.

Just google the purcell prusick--they're very cool, although in the long run I like the PAS better. Ooops, I forgot, you're a sling guy who thinks the under-crotch daisy is a good idea.

heh. A slight correction. I'm a rope guy first, and I like the crotch sling to keep things sporty. I still gots two balls so I've got something to play with. What?


hugepedro


Apr 27, 2010, 8:54 PM
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Re: [cjon3s] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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cjon3s wrote:
Does it honestly matter? Your rope argument is ridiculous. As previously mentioned, how many pitches do you honestly lead that are the entire length of your rope?

And btw, I thought the PAS was nylon..?

I don't use the PAS. Read the thread.

And no, it doesn't matter. But just to review how this debate started: I shared what I use as my tether, then a few numb nuts started questioning the fact that I carry an "extra" 3 ounces worth of 5mm cord on my harness. Hahahaha! So I just went ahead an pwned they asses.

And then I took their honeys.


hugepedro


Apr 27, 2010, 8:58 PM
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caughtinside wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
I carry an ďextraĒ 3 ounces.

What?

All in my shorts, of course. All in my shorts.


caughtinside


Apr 27, 2010, 9:01 PM
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Re: [hugepedro] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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hugepedro wrote:
caughtinside wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
I carry an ďextraĒ 3 ounces.

What?

All in my shorts, of course. All in my shorts.

Watch out for the drug sniffing dogs.


cjon3s


Apr 27, 2010, 9:01 PM
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Re: [hugepedro] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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I read it. The question about the PAS being made on nylon was directed towards caughtinside.

To each their own. Obviously you guys use different methods and both systems are working well for you. Personally, I like slings. I wouldn't call myself a weight nazi, it's just quick and simple.


hugepedro


Apr 27, 2010, 9:03 PM
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cjon3s wrote:
I read it. The question about the PAS being made on nylon was directed towards caughtinside.

To each their own. Obviously you guys use different methods and both systems are working well for you. Personally, I like slings. I wouldn't call myself a weight nazi, it's just quick and simple.

I like slings too, and I use them when I'm cragging and such.


hugepedro


Apr 27, 2010, 9:05 PM
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caughtinside wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
caughtinside wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
I carry an ďextraĒ 3 ounces.

What?

All in my shorts, of course. All in my shorts.

Watch out for the drug sniffing dogs.

LaughLaughLaugh


phile


Apr 27, 2010, 9:18 PM
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Re: [hugepedro] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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hugepedro wrote:
cjon3s wrote:
I read it. The question about the PAS being made on nylon was directed towards caughtinside.

To each their own. Obviously you guys use different methods and both systems are working well for you. Personally, I like slings. I wouldn't call myself a weight nazi, it's just quick and simple.

I like slings too, and I use them when I'm cragging and such.

yes, but what about the honeys? what happened to the honeys?


hugepedro


Apr 27, 2010, 9:23 PM
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phile wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
cjon3s wrote:
I read it. The question about the PAS being made on nylon was directed towards caughtinside.

To each their own. Obviously you guys use different methods and both systems are working well for you. Personally, I like slings. I wouldn't call myself a weight nazi, it's just quick and simple.

I like slings too, and I use them when I'm cragging and such.

yes, but what about the honeys? what happened to the honeys?

Hahaha, oh I still got em. Thanks for correcting my error in failing to point that out though.


blueeyedclimber


Apr 28, 2010, 6:54 AM
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hugepedro wrote:
Well it was a joke. But I can still argue the point, because I'm all logicy, and stuff.

If you make a joke, then please use one of these in the future TongueSmileWinkCoolLaugh

In reply to:
The argument was made that I am carrying an extra 3 ounces of weight by not using the rope to tie in to the anchor. In other words, carrying stuff that has only a single, specialized purpose.

I'm not making that argument. You have your way, I have mine (although mine's better Tongue).

In reply to:
Well, if you have no means to tie into the anchor, other than the rope, then you are also carrying something that serves only a single, specialized purpose - that 4-8 feet of rope (which is way heavier than my rig).
This is where I am not getting you. YOU are carrying that extra rope TOO. I am using it. YOU are not. You are carrying the PAS IN ADDITION to the rope. What happens if your only anchor is a tree 15-20 feet from the ledge and you need to be at the edge to see your second. How's your PAS then? Cool

In reply to:
Me? I can use every inch of my 200 foot twins on the pitch, and I have done that once in a while (even had to use some of the ropeís stretch a few times). If you use the rope to tie in then you are constrained by your system from ever ever using the full length of the rope on the climb itself. Sooooo, if you are a weight nazi, and you are only ever going to climb 180 foot pitches, you might as well chop off that 4-8 feet and go with a system that is lighter (like mine).

Tell you what. I will stop at the big comfy ledge at 180 feet and use the rope. You keep going up the next pitch and set up a hanging belay and use your PAS. Tongue I am not a weight nazi. I take what I think I might need. Sometimes that's more, sometimes less.


In reply to:
Does any of this really matter? Fuck no.
BINGO.

In reply to:
I was merely pointing out the utter ridiculousness of someone trying to mock my weight naziness over 3 ounces, when ounce for ounce the actual usable length/weight ratio of their system is inferior to mine.
Right. It is ridiculous. But don't go saying yours is lighter. You are still carrying the rope you are not using.

In reply to:
Donít go telling me Iím carrying extra weight, when my twin rope system with my super sweet rig offers me the best benefit/weight ratio for the situations under which I frequently climb.

I am not arguing this, i have no idea where you climb. It's a matter of personal taste.

In reply to:
And that ainít makin shit up.


Ok. Do you believe in the existence of phantom ropes? Cool

In reply to:
Them are facts, Jack.

Name's Josh.



In reply to:
This discussion makes me wonder how often any of you guys use twins, on multipitch, and block leading, if ever.

This is primarily what I do. Although I prefer to swap leads. It depends on the difficulty of each pitch. I primarily climb with someone who is at a different level.

So, in summary, THAT rope that you are not using.......uh, yeah.......it's still attached to you, dude.

Peace out.

Josh


justroberto


Apr 28, 2010, 7:25 AM
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mojomonkey wrote:
caughtinside wrote:
jt512 wrote:
USnavy wrote:
The double belay loops are not for safety, they are for convince on aid climbs and big walls. I have two PASís for a couple of reasons. The first reason, I need two when aid climbing. Having two is part of basic aid climbing technique (at least it is how I do it). You need one attached to each aider incase you fall, that way you donít loose your aiders. Also itís not a good idea to be hanging 2,000 feet off the ground on a big wall suspended by a single PAS with a single carabiner. If that one bolt pulls youíre done for. If your leader takes a big fall youíre going to get pulled up to the limit of the reach of your daisy (i.e. the daisy will be stopping you from being pulled any higher). Itís possible for your biner to fail if this happens as the biner can get wedged in the hanger and the hanger can rip through the gate. Itís a bit hard to visualize but trust me itís possible.

We'll trust you about as much as we ever do when you talk about aspects of climbing you know nothing about.

Jay

Good catch. That is a lot of misinformation in one paragraph.

I figure he is at least a big wall pro. Read this post, he says "next big wall". Not first.
Well, he did bag that one Via Ferrata...Laugh


wallwombat


Apr 28, 2010, 8:08 AM
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That was 45 minutes of my life that I will NEVER get back.

Unsure


bill413


Apr 28, 2010, 8:27 AM
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mojomonkey wrote:
jmeizis wrote:
[...] when you trip like a clod the rope will absorb the impact and possibly keep you from ripping your anchor out of the wall.

Possibly? How bad was your anchor? And if it is that bad, why are you fiddling with your adjustment to take some photos during the crux?

Look for human funkness device.


Partner cracklover


Apr 28, 2010, 8:32 AM
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blueeyedclimber wrote:
a bunch of well-reasoned argument with hugepedro

Don't bother. He realized a couple pages ago that what he's doing is indefensible from a weight perspective, but he just likes doing it.

I made my point, he got it. Then he made a funny, and I got it.

So it's all good!

GO


blueeyedclimber


Apr 28, 2010, 8:35 AM
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cracklover wrote:


I made my point, he got it. Then he made a funny, and I got it.

That's debatable Tongue


Partner cracklover


Apr 28, 2010, 8:38 AM
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Oh, btw, I once used a purcell prussic. I was out hunting for booty, and discovered once I'd arrived at the crag that I'd remembered my slings and cordelette and stuff, but forgotten my rope. D'oh! So I wound up aiding up bolts, and making a purcell prusic with my cordelette as a load limiter, on the tiny chance that a bolt pulled - dropping me onto the previous bolt.

Purcell prussics are definitely pretty cool for dumbasses like me who forget their rope.

Oh wait, that's right, I was just saving weight by leaving behind an entire 60 meters (200 feet? Dingus, please do the conversion for me) of rope!

Beat that HugePedro!

GWink


Partner cracklover


Apr 28, 2010, 8:40 AM
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blueeyedclimber wrote:
cracklover wrote:


I made my point, he got it. Then he made a funny, and I got it.

That's debatable Tongue

Indeed - you are still debating it! Trust me, it was at least funny to me.

GO


hugepedro


Apr 28, 2010, 10:58 AM
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blueeyedclimber wrote:
If you make a joke, then please use one of these in the future TongueSmileWinkCoolLaugh

No. I said ďhahaĒ after it, and thatís more than youíll normally get from me. See, I'm not here for your amusement, I'm here for mine. Once you realize that the only thing that really matters here is MY AMUSEMENT, then youíll better understand my posts. I donít know most of you, nor give a shit about you. Now make me laugh, betch! (Haha)


blueeyedclimber wrote:
I'm not making that argument. You have your way, I have mine (although mine's better Tongue).

Well others were, and thatís what I was responding to. Next time donít jump into the middle of the anal fisting circle if you really donít want to participate.


blueeyedclimber wrote:
This is where I am not getting you. YOU are carrying that extra rope TOO. I am using it. YOU are not. You are carrying the PAS IN ADDITION to the rope. What happens if your only anchor is a tree 15-20 feet from the ledge and you need to be at the edge to see your second. How's your PAS then? Cool

I know you're not getting me. It's ok. Don't fret. Many people can live a decent life even if they are never the smartest guy in the room, I'm sure you can too.

No, I am using that rope. And that length of rope Iím carrying can serve multiple purposes for me, whereas for you it CAN ONLY SERVE A SINGLE PURPOSE. Get it? Those numb nuts were bagging on me for carrying 3 ounces of gear that serves a single purpose, when they are carrying something even heavier that serves a single purpose.

Just because the fact that that thing happens to be part of the rope, and your minds are too feeble to conceptualize that part of the rope as serving a single purpose, doesnít mean it is not. Failure to grasp something on your part does not mean it is wrong. You might as well get used to it because Iím way smarter than you guys, and Iím taking all your honeys.

And I already answered that question about when the extension needs to be longer than my super sweet rig.


blueeyedclimber wrote:
Tell you what. I will stop at the big comfy ledge at 180 feet and use the rope. You keep going up the next pitch and set up a hanging belay and use your PAS. I am not a weight nazi. I take what I think I might need. Sometimes that's more, sometimes less.

Super! But when you climb things that arenít in a guide book you donít always know what youíre going to end up with or when you might actually need the last 10 feet of the rope. If you can wrap your brain around this concept . . .

ďI want a system that handles those elegantly, and that uses the least amount of gear, while providing a high degree of flexibility, in the broadest of circumstances, from optimum to adverse (e.g. awkward belay stations, hanging belays, nighttime, speed critical, self-rescue, etc.)."

. . . then you might begin to understand this. Your system is great under many circumstances. I used it myself for a long time. But Iíve found that the system I use now is also great in those same circumstance, plus itís great in additional ones (see my post above where I enumerate all the bennies).


blueeyedclimber wrote:
Right. It is ridiculous. But don't go saying yours is lighter. You are still carrying the rope you are not using.

Wrong. See above. Itís lighter on a weight per usable length of rope basis, and itís most likely lighter in absolute terms unless one is using a similar twin rope system. I win.


blueeyedclimber wrote:
Name's Josh.

Iíll call you Jack if I want to, betch.


blueeyedclimber wrote:
This is primarily what I do. Although I prefer to swap leads. It depends on the difficulty of each pitch. I primarily climb with someone who is at a different level.

Well then youíre well on your way over to the darkside, my young apprentice. There is hope for you to continue to learn the ways. Kudos.

I would prefer to swap leads too, but I'm such a badass that few partners are of equal competence.


Oh, and for you, just this one time, donít come to expect it: Laugh


hugepedro


Apr 28, 2010, 11:04 AM
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wallwombat wrote:
That was 45 minutes of my life that I will NEVER get back.

Unsure

Shutup, n00b!!!!11

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