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The sport anchors - multi pitch - two bolts
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sittingduck


Jun 23, 2010, 8:19 AM
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The sport anchors - multi pitch - two bolts
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The list is under construction. The anchors may be changed, new anchors may be added and old ones removed

The current list, collected from the rc.com community:
  • Quick-draw anchor

  • Rope and a fig. 8 (name needed)

  • Sliding X

  • The Quad

  • Fig. 8 bunny ears / Atomic clip

  • Rope V8

  • Cow-tail anchor


Three pending anchors, they are listed at the end of this post.

Please post if you know an anchor that is missing from the list, or if you consider any of the listed anchors unsafe.



Details about the anchors:



Quick-draw anchor



[V]Quick
[V]Flexible
[V]Master-point [V]Re-direct
[ ]Equalizes [ ]Equalizes dynamically
[ ]No extension
[ ]Uses minimum gear
[V]No specialized gear needed

Each of the quick-draws may be replaced by a single carabiner, ref the "rope and a fig. 8" anchor




Rope and a fig. 8



[V]Quick
[V]Flexible
[V]Master-point [V]Re-direct
[ ]Equalizes [ ]Equalizes dynamically
[ ]No extension
[V]Uses minimum gear
[V]No specialized gear needed




Sliding X



[V]Quick
[ ]Flexible
[ ]Master-point [ ]Re-direct
[V]Equalizes [V]Equalizes dynamically
[V]No extension
[V]Uses minimum gear
[ ]No specialized gear needed

With re-direct:


[ ]Quick
[ ]Flexible
[V]Master-point [V]Re-direct
[V]Equalizes [V]Equalizes dynamically
[V]No extension
[V]Uses minimum gear
[ ]No specialized gear needed




The Quad



[V]Quick
[ ]Flexible
[ ]Master-point [ ]Re-direct
[V]Equalizes [V]Equalizes dynamically
[V]No extension
[ ]Uses minimum gear
[ ]No specialized gear needed

With re-direct:


[V]Quick
[ ]Flexible
[V]Master-point [V]Re-direct
[V]Equalizes [V]Equalizes dynamically
[V]No extension
[ ]Uses minimum gear
[ ]No specialized gear needed




Fig. 8 bunny ears / Atomic clip



[V]Quick
[V]Flexible
[ ]Master-point [ ]Re-direct
[V]Equalizes [ ]Equalizes dynamically
[V]No extension
[V]Uses minimum gear
[V]No specialized gear needed




Rope V8 New!



[V]Quick
[V]Flexible
[V]Master-point [V]Re-direct
[V]Equalizes [ ]Equalizes dynamically
[V]No extension
[V]Uses minimum gear
[V]No specialized gear needed




Cow-tail anchor



[V]Quick
[V]Flexible
[ ]Master-point [ ]Re-direct
[V]Equalizes [ ]Equalizes dynamically
[V]No extension
[V]Uses minimum gear
[V]No specialized gear needed*

*Only if a long runner is used, any kind of daisy-chains are considered specialized gear



Pending anchors:



Clove hitches



[V]Quick
[V]Flexible
[ ]Master-point [ ]Re-direct
[ ]Equalizes [ ]Equalizes dynamically
[V]No extension
[V]Uses minimum gear
[V]No specialized gear needed

This anchor was made redundant by the "Rope and a fig. 8" anchor. This means that if you want to use this anchor you are better off using the "Rope and a fig. 8" anchor.




"Austrian" anchor



[V]Quick
[V]Flexible
[V]Master-point [ ]Re-direct
[ ]Equalizes [ ]Equalizes dynamically
[V]No extension
[V]Uses minimum gear
[ ]No specialized gear needed

The locker at the masterpoint need a backup, any suggestions?

This anchor was made redundant by the "Rope and a fig. 8" anchor. This means that if you want to use this anchor you are better off using the "Rope and a fig. 8" anchor.




Quick-draw equalizing anchor



[V]Quick
[ ]Flexible
[V]Master-point [V]Re-direct
[V]Equalizes [ ]Equalizes dynamically
[V]No extension
[ ]Uses minimum gear
[V]No specialized gear needed





(This post was edited by sittingduck on Jul 7, 2010, 5:52 AM)


shu2kill


Jun 23, 2010, 8:51 AM
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Re: [sittingduck] The sport anchors - multipitch - two bolts [In reply to]
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what program are you using?? nice drawings!!

also, i anchor differently... i have an adjustable daisy or a PAS girth hitched to my harness.... so at the anchors i clip that to 1 bolt, and then clip a biner to the other bolt, and clove hitch the rope to that biner... this way i can adjust the rope to distribute my weight to the 2 bolts... in most of the anchors you show, the weight is on one bolt and the other one is just a backup... and my anchor uses only 4 components: PAS, 2 biners, clove hitch....

you can substitute the PAS for a quickdraw or sling with 2 biners..... since i almost always rappel down from multipitch routes, im going to need the pas to anchor myself at the rap stations... then, i use the PAS and 1 or 2 quickdraws clipped to my belay loop (inline, not paralle), to attach myself to both bolts....


patmay81


Jun 23, 2010, 9:35 AM
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Re: [sittingduck] The sport anchors - multipitch - two bolts [In reply to]
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of course this doesnt cover ALL the options for a two bolt belay anchor, but why would any one need more options for a very simple situation?


sittingduck


Jun 23, 2010, 9:46 AM
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Re: [shu2kill] The sport anchors - multipitch - two bolts [In reply to]
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shu2kill wrote:
what program are you using?? nice drawings!!

also, i anchor differently... i have an adjustable daisy or a PAS girth hitched to my harness.... so at the anchors i clip that to 1 bolt, and then clip a biner to the other bolt, and clove hitch the rope to that biner... this way i can adjust the rope to distribute my weight to the 2 bolts... in most of the anchors you show, the weight is on one bolt and the other one is just a backup... and my anchor uses only 4 components: PAS, 2 biners, clove hitch....

you can substitute the PAS for a quickdraw or sling with 2 biners..... since i almost always rappel down from multipitch routes, im going to need the pas to anchor myself at the rap stations... then, i use the PAS and 1 or 2 quickdraws clipped to my belay loop (inline, not paralle), to attach myself to both bolts....

I use Adobe Illustrator CS2 for the drawings.

Thanks for posting this anchor, is it something like this?:


To make it to the list the anchor may not contain any proprietary components. The PAS is out, sorry.


sittingduck


Jun 23, 2010, 9:55 AM
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Re: [patmay81] The sport anchors - multipitch - two bolts [In reply to]
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patmay81 wrote:
of course this doesnt cover ALL the options for a two bolt belay anchor, but why would any one need more options for a very simple situation?

If you drop your rack some day, you might be happy to know some of the less gear extensive anchors?


patmay81


Jun 23, 2010, 10:04 AM
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Re: [sittingduck] The sport anchors - multipitch - two bolts [In reply to]
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sittingduck wrote:
patmay81 wrote:
of course this doesnt cover ALL the options for a two bolt belay anchor, but why would any one need more options for a very simple situation?

If you drop your rack some day, you might be happy to know some of the less gear extensive anchors?
no doubt, I don't disagree with that at all. And you have illustrated more than sufficient examples for this scenario.
I think you should know how to get by with two biners and the rope you are climbing on for a multipitch sport anchor.
My coment was just that there are many more difficult scenarios to deal with than a two bolt anchor. why learn 500 ways to deal with this really simple anchoring situation when there are so many other scenarios where the solutions to a solid anchor are not so obvious?


shu2kill


Jun 23, 2010, 10:07 AM
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Re: [sittingduck] The sport anchors - multipitch - two bolts [In reply to]
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sittingduck wrote:
shu2kill wrote:
what program are you using?? nice drawings!!

also, i anchor differently... i have an adjustable daisy or a PAS girth hitched to my harness.... so at the anchors i clip that to 1 bolt, and then clip a biner to the other bolt, and clove hitch the rope to that biner... this way i can adjust the rope to distribute my weight to the 2 bolts... in most of the anchors you show, the weight is on one bolt and the other one is just a backup... and my anchor uses only 4 components: PAS, 2 biners, clove hitch....

you can substitute the PAS for a quickdraw or sling with 2 biners..... since i almost always rappel down from multipitch routes, im going to need the pas to anchor myself at the rap stations... then, i use the PAS and 1 or 2 quickdraws clipped to my belay loop (inline, not paralle), to attach myself to both bolts....

I use Adobe Illustrator CS2 for the drawings.

Thanks for posting this anchor, is it something like this?:
[image]http://www.home.no/sittingduck/anchor009.jpg[/image]

To make it to the list the anchor may not contain any proprietary components. The PAS is out, sorry.

exactly like that... i will use a biner or quickdraw clipped to one bolt to redirect.... or if the first bolt is close to the anchors, i climb until i clip that one and then the belayer will lower me to the anchors... this way i prevent a possible FF2 since the climber will begin climbing next pitchwith the first bolt already clipped.... of course i have to backclip it so the next climber is correctly clipped, thats one drawback.... but all this is not relevant to the subject, so yes, what you drew is how i anchor myself most of the times...


jakedatc


Jun 23, 2010, 10:10 AM
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Re: [sittingduck] The sport anchors - multipitch - two bolts [In reply to]
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how do you drop a sport rack exactly?

Is this for bringing up a 2nd too or just for lead belaying off of?

if i was doing a bunch of multipitch with known bolted anchors i'd set up something like this

2 biners, 2 dogbones, 1 locker hang the locker off your harness and let the rest hang like a draw. attach non lockers to bolts, attach reverso, gri gri, cinch, atc-guide or redirect to your harness off the middle locker. especially if you're sport climbing then one dedicated set of anchor draws isn't a big deal.


shu2kill


Jun 23, 2010, 10:23 AM
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Re: [sittingduck] The sport anchors - multipitch - two bolts [In reply to]
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hey sitting duck, can i borrow your drawings to put them in another forum?? we have a local climbing forum where i would like to share them... i cannot link to this one, because english is not our first language and most of the people in the other forum do not speak english... if you agree you may want to put your signature or something in them before i can save them on my computer....

thanx!!


sittingduck


Jun 23, 2010, 10:42 AM
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Re: [jakedatc] The sport anchors - multipitch - two bolts [In reply to]
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jakedatc wrote:
how do you drop a sport rack exactly?

With extreme clumsyness?

jakedatc wrote:
Is this for bringing up a 2nd too or just for lead belaying off of?

Lead belaying off of. Do you ask because some of the anchors dont offer any obvious re-direct?

jakedatc wrote:
if i was doing a bunch of multipitch with known bolted anchors i'd set up something like this

2 biners, 2 dogbones, 1 locker hang the locker off your harness and let the rest hang like a draw. attach non lockers to bolts, attach reverso, gri gri, cinch, atc-guide or redirect to your harness off the middle locker. especially if you're sport climbing then one dedicated set of anchor draws isn't a big deal.

I do not understand this. Are the dogbones complete with carabiners?


redlude97


Jun 23, 2010, 10:52 AM
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Re: [jakedatc] The sport anchors - multipitch - two bolts [In reply to]
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jakedatc wrote:
how do you drop a sport rack exactly?

Is this for bringing up a 2nd too or just for lead belaying off of?

if i was doing a bunch of multipitch with known bolted anchors i'd set up something like this

2 biners, 2 dogbones, 1 locker hang the locker off your harness and let the rest hang like a draw. attach non lockers to bolts, attach reverso, gri gri, cinch, atc-guide or redirect to your harness off the middle locker. especially if you're sport climbing then one dedicated set of anchor draws isn't a big deal.
That seems like a silly setup that would be hard to set up on anything but perfectly horizontal bolts, i would rather have slings than dogbones in that case, and would rather have a quad or double sliding x premade


sittingduck


Jun 23, 2010, 10:52 AM
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Re: [shu2kill] The sport anchors - multipitch - two bolts [In reply to]
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shu2kill wrote:
hey sitting duck, can i borrow your drawings to put them in another forum?? we have a local climbing forum where i would like to share them... i cannot link to this one, because english is not our first language and most of the people in the other forum do not speak english... if you agree you may want to put your signature or something in them before i can save them on my computer....

thanx!!

Thanks for asking, sure, go right ahead. If you want to get the updates it might be smart to hotlink the drawings instead of copying them to your harddrive.


jakedatc


Jun 23, 2010, 11:02 AM
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Re: [redlude97] The sport anchors - multipitch - two bolts [In reply to]
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redlude97 wrote:
jakedatc wrote:
how do you drop a sport rack exactly?

Is this for bringing up a 2nd too or just for lead belaying off of?

if i was doing a bunch of multipitch with known bolted anchors i'd set up something like this

2 biners, 2 dogbones, 1 locker hang the locker off your harness and let the rest hang like a draw. attach non lockers to bolts, attach reverso, gri gri, cinch, atc-guide or redirect to your harness off the middle locker. especially if you're sport climbing then one dedicated set of anchor draws isn't a big deal.
That seems like a silly setup that would be hard to set up on anything but perfectly horizontal bolts, i would rather have slings than dogbones in that case, and would rather have a quad or double sliding x premade

Ah.. most bolted anchors out this way are almost always horizontal. Though this weekend i just went with sliding x for one and the other set up for the other.

Sittingduck: ya basically 2 one sided draws with a locker connecting them. i did it with 24" slings this weekend for one anchor and it was pretty simple.


bandycoot


Jun 23, 2010, 11:05 AM
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Re: [sittingduck] The sport anchors - multipitch - two bolts [In reply to]
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Hey sittingduck,

You should either put together a comprehensive list of pros and cons or delete them. Yours are extremely lacking to say the least, and are a little misleading since you're lacking a lot of cons. Other than that, nice work compiling data from the other thread. I wish I had time to do the pros and cons for you....

Josh


sittingduck


Jun 23, 2010, 11:12 AM
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Re: [bandycoot] The sport anchors - multipitch - two bolts [In reply to]
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bandycoot wrote:
Hey sittingduck,

You should either put together a comprehensive list of pros and cons or delete them. Yours are extremely lacking to say the least, and are a little misleading since you're lacking a lot of cons. Other than that, nice work compiling data from the other thread. I wish I had time to do the pros and cons for you....

Josh

I left the pros and cons empty with purpose. Do you see any that urgently needs to be filled in?


shu2kill


Jun 23, 2010, 11:17 AM
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Re: [sittingduck] The sport anchors - multipitch - two bolts [In reply to]
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sittingduck wrote:
shu2kill wrote:
hey sitting duck, can i borrow your drawings to put them in another forum?? we have a local climbing forum where i would like to share them... i cannot link to this one, because english is not our first language and most of the people in the other forum do not speak english... if you agree you may want to put your signature or something in them before i can save them on my computer....

thanx!!

Thanks for asking, sure, go right ahead. If you want to get the updates it might be smart to hotlink the drawings instead of copying them to your harddrive.

thanx. are you going to be changing/modifying the current drawings?? i though you were just going add more, and maybe with time fill the pros/cons of each one...


sittingduck


Jun 23, 2010, 11:20 AM
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Re: [shu2kill] The sport anchors - multipitch - two bolts [In reply to]
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shu2kill wrote:
sittingduck wrote:
shu2kill wrote:
hey sitting duck, can i borrow your drawings to put them in another forum?? we have a local climbing forum where i would like to share them... i cannot link to this one, because english is not our first language and most of the people in the other forum do not speak english... if you agree you may want to put your signature or something in them before i can save them on my computer....

thanx!!

Thanks for asking, sure, go right ahead. If you want to get the updates it might be smart to hotlink the drawings instead of copying them to your harddrive.

thanx. are you going to be changing/modifying the current drawings?? i though you were just going add more, and maybe with time fill the pros/cons of each one...

Yes, I will modify the drawings. Is it a problem to hotlink them? What is the link to your forum?


shu2kill


Jun 23, 2010, 11:24 AM
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Re: [sittingduck] The sport anchors - multipitch - two bolts [In reply to]
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sittingduck wrote:
Yes, I will modify the drawings. Is it a problem to hotlink them? What is the link to your forum?

well, the forum is a facebook group actually, with about 130 members, most of them local climbers... and im thinking that if i hotlink them it would be more confussing, as i may put the drawing and discuss about it, and then when it changes, the discussion will no longer be valid...


bandycoot


Jun 23, 2010, 11:35 AM
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Re: [sittingduck] The sport anchors - multipitch - two bolts [In reply to]
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A quick scan (I really don't have time):

I think that no redirect would be quite a con IMHO. Also, you're obscenely inconsistent with your comments. #1 (no con) has the same amount of gear as #2 which has a con of a lot of gear, then the quad doesn't have a con of a lot of gear. Really? A quad on a sport climb isn't a lot of gear but two quickdraws is?


shu2kill


Jun 23, 2010, 11:38 AM
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Re: [bandycoot] The sport anchors - multipitch - two bolts [In reply to]
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bandycoot wrote:
A quick scan (I really don't have time):

I think that no redirect would be quite a con IMHO. Also, you're obscenely inconsistent with your comments. #1 (no con) has the same amount of gear as #2 which has a con of a lot of gear, then the quad doesn't have a con of a lot of gear. Really? A quad on a sport climb isn't a lot of gear but two quickdraws is?

i think he is not finished writing the info... or maybe we should list the pros and cons and he will edit the original post... at least thats what i understood from the original post....


sittingduck


Jun 23, 2010, 11:54 AM
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Re: [shu2kill] The sport anchors - multipitch - two bolts [In reply to]
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shu2kill wrote:
bandycoot wrote:
A quick scan (I really don't have time):

I think that no redirect would be quite a con IMHO. Also, you're obscenely inconsistent with your comments. #1 (no con) has the same amount of gear as #2 which has a con of a lot of gear, then the quad doesn't have a con of a lot of gear. Really? A quad on a sport climb isn't a lot of gear but two quickdraws is?

i think he is not finished writing the info... or maybe we should list the pros and cons and he will edit the original post... at least thats what i understood from the original post....

I agree with bandycoot, the pros and cons are not consistent the way it is now .

And just copy the images, no problem.


Partner drector


Jun 23, 2010, 11:59 AM
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shu2kill wrote:
bandycoot wrote:
A quick scan (I really don't have time):

I think that no redirect would be quite a con IMHO. Also, you're obscenely inconsistent with your comments. #1 (no con) has the same amount of gear as #2 which has a con of a lot of gear, then the quad doesn't have a con of a lot of gear. Really? A quad on a sport climb isn't a lot of gear but two quickdraws is?

i think he is not finished writing the info... or maybe we should list the pros and cons and he will edit the original post... at least thats what i understood from the original post....

What rockclimbing.com needs is a wiki so everyone can mess up the info, not just the OP!


sittingduck


Jun 23, 2010, 12:11 PM
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Re: [drector] The sport anchors - multipitch - two bolts [In reply to]
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drector wrote:
shu2kill wrote:
bandycoot wrote:
A quick scan (I really don't have time):

I think that no redirect would be quite a con IMHO. Also, you're obscenely inconsistent with your comments. #1 (no con) has the same amount of gear as #2 which has a con of a lot of gear, then the quad doesn't have a con of a lot of gear. Really? A quad on a sport climb isn't a lot of gear but two quickdraws is?

i think he is not finished writing the info... or maybe we should list the pros and cons and he will edit the original post... at least thats what i understood from the original post....

What rockclimbing.com needs is a wiki so everyone can mess up the info, not just the OP!

That would have been awesome! How about a makeshift wiki? If you edit my source code, I'll publish it.


rtwilli4


Jun 23, 2010, 12:23 PM
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?kun cheu ari?


sittingduck


Jun 23, 2010, 12:36 PM
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rtwilli4 wrote:
?kun cheu ari?

That's easy for you to say

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