I've placed both those pieces plenty and simply can't eyeball the difference between cracks that differ by .1". Why isn't that a good reason to rack them together? If I try the wrong one first, I have the other one right there to plug in. as opposed to having to rerack one and grab the other.
I've placed both those pieces plenty and simply can't eyeball the difference between cracks that differ by .1". Why isn't that a good reason to rack them together? If I try the wrong one first, I have the other one right there to plug in. as opposed to having to rerack one and grab the other.
And if they are both on the same biner, you will waste just as much energy taking the other tcu off the cam and trying to find a place for it back on your harness.
Unless you are one of those people that just places one piece, clips it, and leaves the other piece hanging on it uselessly.
I've placed both those pieces plenty and simply can't eyeball the difference between cracks that differ by .1". Why isn't that a good reason to rack them together? If I try the wrong one first, I have the other one right there to plug in. as opposed to having to rerack one and grab the other.
A serious answer? Ugh, they take so much effort for so little payoff. Fine...
I will put in the caveat that if you’re getting on a long route, below your level, where you’re unsure if you’ll need small gear that I wouldn’t argue against it. However, I have yet to see anyone who racks this way, and I know several, get on a pitch near their level that looks like it requires thin gear and not watch them un-rack them onto individual biners.
Back to your situation: 0 and 00 on one biner, you can’t tell the difference. 50% chance that you get the wrong one so you take it out and you have the other one right there. You still have to pull the extra cam and biner off, clip it on your harness, grab a draw and clip that. Versus having a 50% chance of getting it right and being able to clip the racking biner straight away if you’re in a tight spot. Even if not I can return the biner to my harness (without wasting time of unclipping) and grab the other to plug in – I’d argue that you’d still be fumbling trying to get the second cam in (which you still have to unclip the first, return it to your harness, get a draw, and clip it to the cam – all before you can clip).
And although I'll accept the counter that it takes practice and you get used to it, I think it's awkward to pull a cam out and grab the other one on the biner, all single- handed.
My opinion: If you accept having two on one biner & saying "well, I can't judge the difference," then you never will be able to tell the difference. If you put each on a separate biner you get definite feedback when you choose the wrong one or the right one. That will hone your eye as to which is correct. (It still rots to pull the wrong one.)
Of course, practice on places where you're not desperate is recommended.
I've placed both those pieces plenty and simply can't eyeball the difference between cracks that differ by .1". Why isn't that a good reason to rack them together? If I try the wrong one first, I have the other one right there to plug in. as opposed to having to rerack one and grab the other.
And if they are both on the same biner, you will waste just as much energy taking the other tcu off the cam and trying to find a place for it back on your harness.
trying to find a place for it? I just put it back.
I've placed both those pieces plenty and simply can't eyeball the difference between cracks that differ by .1". Why isn't that a good reason to rack them together? If I try the wrong one first, I have the other one right there to plug in. as opposed to having to rerack one and grab the other.
A serious answer? Ugh, they take so much effort for so little payoff. Fine...
I will put in the caveat that if you’re getting on a long route, below your level, where you’re unsure if you’ll need small gear that I wouldn’t argue against it. However, I have yet to see anyone who racks this way, and I know several, get on a pitch near their level that looks like it requires thin gear and not watch them un-rack them onto individual biners.
whoo! that's me! Of course, as I do that, I'll usually shed some of the larger gear, because ending up with a shitload of biners on my gear loops sucks.
Also, on a completely unrelated note, if you rack multiple cams on one biner, you are a n00b.
edit: Do you mean racking multiple cams on a single carabineer (like many climbers do with nuts) and then placing an separate draw or free biner on the cam when it comes time to place it? Or do you mean grouping cams together for organization purposes (i.e. clipping a number one Camalot to your gear loop and clipping your second and third number one, each with their own biner, to the biner of the first number one)?
yes.
Both?
Well in that case I stand by my post that Beth showed me the trick of racking like cams together to reduce clutter on the harness. I find it works well if I have a lot of the same cams with a large rack and it takes less time to take off my harness during turn over than just racking everything independently as it keeps things well organized and compact. But thats referring to clipping like cams together with independent biners.
I had my doubts but WOW, you really are as special as they say.
Also, on a completely unrelated note, if you rack multiple cams on one biner, you are a n00b.
edit: Do you mean racking multiple cams on a single carabineer (like many climbers do with nuts) and then placing an separate draw or free biner on the cam when it comes time to place it? Or do you mean grouping cams together for organization purposes (i.e. clipping a number one Camalot to your gear loop and clipping your second and third number one, each with their own biner, to the biner of the first number one)?
yes.
Both?
Well in that case I stand by my post that Beth showed me the trick of racking like cams together to reduce clutter on the harness. I find it works well if I have a lot of the same cams with a large rack and it takes less time to take off my harness during turn over than just racking everything independently as it keeps things well organized and compact. But thats referring to clipping like cams together with independent biners.
heh. USGayvey and snoppy both pile the shit-ton of gear onto a few cams.
I've placed both those pieces plenty and simply can't eyeball the difference between cracks that differ by .1". Why isn't that a good reason to rack them together? If I try the wrong one first, I have the other one right there to plug in. as opposed to having to rerack one and grab the other.
A serious answer? Ugh, they take so much effort for so little payoff. Fine...
I will put in the caveat that if you’re getting on a long route, below your level, where you’re unsure if you’ll need small gear that I wouldn’t argue against it. However, I have yet to see anyone who racks this way, and I know several, get on a pitch near their level that looks like it requires thin gear and not watch them un-rack them onto individual biners.
Back to your situation: 0 and 00 on one biner, you can’t tell the difference. 50% chance that you get the wrong one so you take it out and you have the other one right there. You still have to pull the extra cam and biner off, clip it on your harness, grab a draw and clip that. Versus having a 50% chance of getting it right and being able to clip the racking biner straight away if you’re in a tight spot. Even if not I can return the biner to my harness (without wasting time of unclipping) and grab the other to plug in – I’d argue that you’d still be fumbling trying to get the second cam in (which you still have to unclip the first, return it to your harness, get a draw, and clip it to the cam – all before you can clip).
And although I'll accept the counter that it takes practice and you get used to it, I think it's awkward to pull a cam out and grab the other one on the biner, all single- handed.
Just let him shuffle around on the ledge fiddling with his body weight gear placements.
If we are talking about the same guy, I think its Hank Caylor, he interview in the extras of "The Sharp End" is my by far favorite non-climbing part of a climbing movie.
If we are talking about the same guy, I think its Hank Caylor, he interview in the extras of "The Sharp End" is my by far favorite non-climbing part of a climbing movie.
dev
Negative. Your favorite non-climbing part of a movie is Leonard Coyne in First Ascent, when he talks about Yosemite being a preschool.
If we are talking about the same guy, I think its Hank Caylor, he interview in the extras of "The Sharp End" is my by far favorite non-climbing part of a climbing movie.
dev
Negative. Your favorite non-climbing part of a movie is Leonard Coyne in First Ascent, when he talks about Yosemite being a preschool.
If we are talking about the same guy, I think its Hank Caylor, he interview in the extras of "The Sharp End" is my by far favorite non-climbing part of a climbing movie.
dev
Negative. Your favorite non-climbing part of a movie is Leonard Coyne in First Ascent, when he talks about Yosemite being a preschool.
All of my stuff faces OUT while on the harness. I'll go even further and explain WHY in detail.
Gates out has everything to do with ease of removal AND ease of replacement.
GATES-IN REMOVAL: As you add more and more gear to a loop the weight of the gear presses the loop into your body (floppy and hard plastic ones). With gates in I run into several problems. 1) With gates in it's harder to locate the correct gate to push on since you can't SEE it. 2) With Gates-In the asymmetric shape of the biners (spines AWAY from your body) make their position more unstable. They tend to flop over to the side making removal more difficult. 3) With Gates-In the removal is generally an UP-AND-OUT direction. With this the nose of the biner tends to get CAUGHT on the loop since the loop is being pulled down and in. Not as much of an issue with keylocks but I use color-matched biners with notches.
REPLACEMENT: Putting the biners back on the loop. This can occur when choosing a different cam/piece, cleaning a route etc. 1) Gates-In the gates tend to get caught on the other biners, clothing etc. This often means the gates don't close, get stuck etc etc. A PITA. 2) With many pieces on the loop, it hangs close to the body. I find it harder to get the pieces separated and the nose of the biner into that mess with gates-in.
GATES-OUT Removal: 1) Gates-out, the gate of the piece you want is easy to locate. 2) Gates-out the spines hang close to your body and the biners don't flop over. 3) Removal involves a down and in motion which mens the notch doesn't get hung up on the loop as much. Replacement: 1) It's easier wedge the top of the biner through other pieces and clip it back on the loop. 2) Clipping it back is a down and out process. This seems to be much more secure. Even if the gate gets caught (less likely) the biner is naturally hooked on between your body and the loop. No flopping issues here.
I do think some of the preferences come from how flexible your hands/wrists are. I am basically stiff as a board there and find gates-in to be uncomfortable at BEST.
More than one cam on a SINGLE biner is a PITA. PERIOD.