I saw the guy being put into the truck on Saturday, and he looked surprisingly good for an 80' fall - the ranger I talked to said he "probably broke everything", though. That sucks, but it didn't appear life-threatening.

Any report on how it happened?

Do you know what happened? How did he have such a long fall? Did gear pull? What route was he on?

This was posted on Gunks.com

alicex4
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/05/00
Posts: 3377 Yep, he fell from the top of the first pitch, at the anchor tree. Fell 100 ft and landed on his feet. Busted femur, and maybe some ankle issues and maybe a hip injury. Apparently some miscommunication between leader and belayer. We were about 20 ft away when we heard the fall.

You know the gunks; it's noisy, crowded and I would think that it would be very easy to make that mistake!

Hope you are well Greg...

HOpe Steve recovers quickly and that his partner does too.

Were you over near Northern Pillar earlier?

Sounds like him :(

this is from Gunks.com


stranger

Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 1
Loc: CT I talked to Steve last night at the hospital and he his doing OK. He had surgery Sunday morning for his broken leg and he reports it went well. Main thing is, besided some scapes and bruisers there where no other injuries. He sends his thanks to everyone who helped out and I'm sure he will respond here himself shortley.

Steve is one lucky guy. I think that very few people survive a 60 foot fall.

Steve, I hope you recover quickly. I hope your belayer does too.

So we are no closer to understanding what happened here. If the belayer was sketchy a backup belay would have helped. Not sure what exactly went down here. It will be interesting to see if we can get some facts.

This is from Gunks.com

beau
stranger

Registered: 05/26/09
Posts: 18 The info I got was that he thought his belayer was going to lower him, and that he weighted the rope without asking if he was on belay, which he wasn't.

That would sum it up. I guess those belay signals are useful after all...

Or else he could have taken the simple precaution of maintaining a direct connection to the anchor until he had tested the belay by weighting it. Takes two seconds and makes this sort of accident much less likely.

i started reracking but quickly noticed that she did NOT know how to belay properly as she kept taking her hand of of the brake end and holding the other end. before i could say anything another guy from their group ran over to correct her mistake and give what seemed to me like a basic belay lesson as she belayed the guy up the route. it really made me nervous bc even as he was guiding her through the technique she kept saying that it didnt feel natural and the motion felt awkward. to an observer it was obvious that she did not feel confident in what she was doing. there also seemed to be some confusion once he cleaned the gear bc he didnt have a rap device w him and they were sending one up or then he was going to just lower?...

Steve is one lucky guy. I think that very few people survive a 60 foot fall.

Steve, I hope you recover quickly. I hope your belayer does too.

According to a report, the climber set up a top rope, leaned back and expected to be lowered. Unfortunately, he wasn't on belay.

[Y]ou shouldn't rely on a verbal "got" from your belayer. Rather, before lowering, you should grab the belayer's side of the rope with both hands. Then, after getting the verbal "got," gradually settle onto the rope, not letting go until you're certain that your belayer actually does have you.

[Y]ou shouldn't rely on a verbal "got" from your belayer. Rather, before lowering, you should grab the belayer's side of the rope with both hands. Then, after getting the verbal "got," gradually settle onto the rope, not letting go until you're certain that your belayer actually does have you.

It still amazes me why, it was good advice.

You're amazed that good advice got panned on the Knob?

Are you new here?

I think doing this is important, but the single most important step to reducing lowering accidents is never taking a climber off belay. If you are going to lower, establish with the belayer that they are NOT to take you off of belay until you are back on the ground.

(3) I know this will never catch on, but I don't understand why people don't mostly "self-lower." After threading the rope through the anchor, run it through your belay device on your harness or a Munter and lower yourself.

Surely the extra ten seconds it takes to do this can't be a serious consideration, the anchor load is substantially reduced as compared to the belayer doing the lowering, and the climber is back in charge of their own destiny, as it should be. Is there some downside to this I'm missing?

(3) I know this will never catch on, but I don't understand why people don't mostly "self-lower." After threading the rope through the anchor, run it through your belay device on your harness or a Munter and lower yourself.

(3) I know this will never catch on, but I don't understand why people don't mostly "self-lower." After threading the rope through the anchor, run it through your belay device on your harness or a Munter and lower yourself.

Surely the extra ten seconds it takes to do this can't be a serious consideration, the anchor load is substantially reduced as compared to the belayer doing the lowering, and the climber is back in charge of their own destiny, as it should be. Is there some downside to this I'm missing?

One concern would be if there is a tangle down below and I load it: am I prepared to somehow get that mess unloaded?

Why would there be a tangle? Has the belayer been asleep the entire time?

(3) I know this will never catch on, but I don't understand why people don't mostly "self-lower." After threading the rope through the anchor, run it through your belay device on your harness or a Munter and lower yourself.
...
Is there some downside to this I'm missing?

(3) I know this will never catch on, but I don't understand why people don't mostly "self-lower." After threading the rope through the anchor, run it through your belay device on your harness or a Munter and lower yourself.

There were a couple more accidents on Saturday/Sunday. On Saturday a kid was climbing near us and he took a whip and appeared to break some bones in his heel.

On Sunday an experienced climber fell 30 feet at the slime wall, pulled two pieces and hit his head. No helmet, head injury, lots of blood.

Sounds to me like you are advocating what amounts to a single strand rap? Except the rope will be sliding through the anchor. Sure it will work but you've got potential issues if the rope is slick and or skinny - generating enough friction. And is the end coming from the ground still going through gear that needs to be cleaned on the way down? All sorts of potential issues in that scenerio.

At least though you are controlling your own decent.

According to a report, the climber set up a top rope, leaned back and expected to be lowered. Unfortunately, he wasn't on belay.

It is bizarre to me that Jay's advice was criticized, since it constitutes what I'd view as utterly basic common sense ... Heaping scorn on the participants cannot change the increasingly obvious fact that such misunderstandings are not at all unlikely to occur,

Decide and agree with your belayer, before you leave the ground, if you'll be rapping or lowering off from the top of the pitch.

If you can not trust them 100%, whether or not you can communicate with them, do not climb with them!

whether or not you can communicate with them,

not trusting your belayer isn't going to help it not happen. If you can not trust them 100%, whether or not you can communicate with them, do not climb with them!

If you are so stupid that you can not even handle remembering what you told your belay you were going to do when you got to the top of the climb, then you shouldn't be climbing.

There is such a thing as being tooooooo paranoid. That can cause accidents as well. Like not moving quickly when a storm is coming in because you can not trust your belayer.

Shit happens, not trusting your belayer isn't going to help it not happen. If you can not trust them 100%, whether or not you can communicate with them, do not climb with them!

If you are so stupid that you can not even handle remembering what you told your belay you were going to do when you got to the top of the climb, then you shouldn't be climbing.

There is such a thing as being tooooooo paranoid. That can cause accidents as well. Like not moving quickly when a storm is coming in because you can not trust your belayer.

Shit happens, not trusting your belayer isn't going to help it not happen. If you can not trust them 100%, whether or not you can communicate with them, do not climb with them!

Well said, as usual.


I think the downsides are the same as for rapping -- which is that it seems to have a worse safety record than even the lowering / mistakenly-off-belay accidents.

Majid, Are you saying that the RRG and Gunks broke records for most accidents this year?

very much. for the volume of climbing traffic, these two area are moving up fast on the scale and I like to figure out why.

I speculate that most of the accidents in these area is concentrate around the younger and least experienced trad climbers who are rushing too fast in to harder routes without understanding the basic principle of climbing, in particular, placing solid protection .

If that is your assumption I would suggest you may not be paying enough attention to the accident reports... Lots of variety in the age of injured parties, and many accidents occurring at the belay.

very much. for the volume of climbing traffic, these two area are moving up fast on the scale and I like to figure out why.

I speculate that most of the accidents in these area is concentrate around the younger and least experienced trad climbers who are rushing too fast in to harder routes without understanding the basic principle of climbing, in particular, placing solid protection .