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majid_sabet
Nov 17, 2010, 4:45 PM
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Graz, Austria. Georg Richter was declared dead on November 14th, four days after an accident in his local gym. The 21-year-old was an experienced climber and had just finished leading a 6+ route. According to local news outlets his less experienced partner lost control of the rope as Richter weighted it.
http://www.alpinist.com/...e-fatal-gym-accident
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erisspirit
Nov 17, 2010, 6:50 PM
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The new gym I go to has taller walls that I'm not entirely used to, so I actually think about this a lot now. I'm EXTRA careful with my knots and double check everything, and I am definitely pickier in who I allow to belay me.
Very sad to read about. RIP
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Lbrombach
Nov 17, 2010, 7:18 PM
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wonder what the floor was padded with, if anything. But yeah..really sucks.
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spikeddem
Nov 17, 2010, 7:41 PM
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Note that the Alpine author confirms that the belayer is being charged with negligent homicide.
Can of worms?
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west_by_god_virginia
Nov 17, 2010, 7:56 PM
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I imagine he will be found guilty, provided he had passed a belay test as most gyms require. although unfortunate, maybe this accident and litigation will get the attention of some fool gri-gri mis-users.
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erisspirit
Nov 17, 2010, 8:07 PM
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spikeddem wrote: Note that the Alpine author confirms that the belayer is being charged with negligent homicide. Can of worms?
WOW missed that part. Hmmmm not entirely sure how I feel about that.
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jt512
Nov 17, 2010, 9:43 PM
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west_by_god_virginia wrote: I imagine he will be found guilty, provided he had passed a belay test as most gyms require.
Your knowledge of Austrian homicide law is impressive.
Jay
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potreroed
Nov 17, 2010, 11:16 PM
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west_by_god_virginia wrote: I imagine he will be found guilty, provided he had passed a belay test as most gyms require. although unfortunate, maybe this accident and litigation will get the attention of some fool gri-gri mis-users.
What makes you think the belayer was using a gri-gri? Had he been this might not have happened.
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healyje
Nov 18, 2010, 8:44 AM
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From Alpinist's facebook page:
In reply to: Christian Knoll Actually it is true, that he didn't use any auto-blocking device. He was using a tuber - the climber had allready clipped the top - when he sat into he just rushed through. The belayer was distracted by surrounding people and it seems that he had let go his hands of the rope. The climber landed on his feet, but unfortunately he fall backwards and hit the floor with his head, and no there were no padded floors. 15 hours ago · |
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socalclimber
Nov 18, 2010, 1:46 PM
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Boy the belay related accidents just continue to roll in.
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dynosore
Nov 18, 2010, 1:57 PM
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Terrible. Too many people treat climbing like a casual backyard game. Condolences to everyone touched by this incident.
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j_ung
Nov 19, 2010, 3:00 PM
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spikeddem wrote: Note that the Alpine author confirms that the belayer is being charged with negligent homicide. Can of worms?
This is good for nobody. There are risks inherent in climbing (duh), even indoors. When Mr. Richter made the decision to climb, he accepted those risks. End of opinion.
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raingod
Nov 19, 2010, 3:39 PM
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spikeddem wrote: Note that the Alpine author confirms that the belayer is being charged with negligent homicide. Can of worms?
I have mixed feelings about this. While its true that there are inherent risks whenever you climb, your belayer just letting go shouldn't be one of them.
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boymeetsrock
Nov 19, 2010, 4:55 PM
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raingod wrote: spikeddem wrote: Note that the Alpine author confirms that the belayer is being charged with negligent homicide. Can of worms? I have mixed feelings about this. While its true that there are inherent risks whenever you climb, your belayer just letting go shouldn't be one of them.
Perhaps it "shouldn't" be on e of the risks inherent in climbing. But, it "is."
If you can't accept that, then don't climb. At least not with a partner.
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j_ung
Nov 19, 2010, 6:33 PM
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raingod wrote: spikeddem wrote: Note that the Alpine author confirms that the belayer is being charged with negligent homicide. Can of worms? I have mixed feelings about this. While its true that there are inherent risks whenever you climb, your belayer just letting go shouldn't be one of them.
And yet...
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erisspirit
Nov 19, 2010, 8:42 PM
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j_ung wrote: spikeddem wrote: Note that the Alpine author confirms that the belayer is being charged with negligent homicide. Can of worms? This is good for nobody. There are risks inherent in climbing (duh), even indoors. When Mr. Richter made the decision to climb, he accepted those risks. End of opinion.
j_ung wrote: spikeddem wrote: Note that the Alpine author confirms that the belayer is being charged with negligent homicide. Can of worms? This is good for nobody. There are risks inherent in climbing (duh), even indoors. When Mr. Richter made the decision to climb, he accepted those risks. End of opinion.
I am definitely leaning towards this side as well... When I allow someone to belay me I am agreeing that I do not think they are negligent or incompetent, and I believe they can belay me safely (or else why who I put my life in their hands). This is why I am fairly picky about who I allow belay me.
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bill413
Nov 20, 2010, 2:00 AM
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erisspirit wrote: j_ung wrote: spikeddem wrote: Note that the Alpine author confirms that the belayer is being charged with negligent homicide. Can of worms? This is good for nobody. There are risks inherent in climbing (duh), even indoors. When Mr. Richter made the decision to climb, he accepted those risks. End of opinion. j_ung wrote: spikeddem wrote: Note that the Alpine author confirms that the belayer is being charged with negligent homicide. Can of worms? This is good for nobody. There are risks inherent in climbing (duh), even indoors. When Mr. Richter made the decision to climb, he accepted those risks. End of opinion. I am definitely leaning towards this side as well... When I allow someone to belay me I am agreeing that I do not think they are negligent or incompetent, and I believe they can belay me safely ( or else why who I put my life in their hands). This is why I am fairly picky about who I allow belay me.
I think far too many people forget the bolded point.
One of the things that sets climbing apart is that we literally trust our partners with our life.
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Lbrombach
Nov 20, 2010, 4:05 PM
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Seems to me that if an experienced climber is has an inexperienced belayer, the experienced climber should be held more responsible for F-ups than the noob on belay. Of course, he's not around to point fingers at...but they were in a gym, so what about whoever gave the guy his intro lesson and sent him on his way?
I have no idea how many times the belayer had ever belayed before or what kind of training he had...just saying that if someone is handed a dangerous object and not trained, it's not necessarily their fault if they screw up.
(This post was edited by Lbrombach on Nov 20, 2010, 4:06 PM)
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macblaze
Nov 20, 2010, 4:15 PM
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healyje wrote: From Alpinist's facebook page: In reply to: Christian Knoll Actually it is true, that he didn't use any auto-blocking device. He was using a tuber - the climber had allready clipped the top - when he sat into he just rushed through. The belayer was distracted by surrounding people and it seems that he had let go his hands of the rope. The climber landed on his feet, but unfortunately he fall backwards and hit the floor with his head, and no there were no padded floors. 15 hours ago ·
I wonder if this is a case of the climber clipping the top and just sitting back with out yelling take or any such communication. I've noticed this as a casual habit of many of the more experienced climbers at my gym (and at comps for that matter) and it always makes me cringe.
I guess I just have trust issues but I ain't letting go until I know the potential idjiot on the ground is paying attention...
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jt512
Nov 20, 2010, 5:18 PM
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macblaze wrote: healyje wrote: From Alpinist's facebook page: In reply to: Christian Knoll Actually it is true, that he didn't use any auto-blocking device. He was using a tuber - the climber had allready clipped the top - when he sat into he just rushed through. The belayer was distracted by surrounding people and it seems that he had let go his hands of the rope. The climber landed on his feet, but unfortunately he fall backwards and hit the floor with his head, and no there were no padded floors. 15 hours ago · I wonder if this is a case of the climber clipping the top and just sitting back with out yelling take or any such communication. I've noticed this as a casual habit of many of the more experienced climbers at my gym (and at comps for that matter) and it always makes me cringe.
The climber shouldn't have to call "take" at the top. If you have to tell to your belayer to catch you, there is something very wrong with your belayer.
Jay
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Lbrombach
Nov 20, 2010, 6:25 PM
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jt512 wrote: macblaze wrote: healyje wrote: From Alpinist's facebook page: In reply to: Christian Knoll Actually it is true, that he didn't use any auto-blocking device. He was using a tuber - the climber had allready clipped the top - when he sat into he just rushed through. The belayer was distracted by surrounding people and it seems that he had let go his hands of the rope. The climber landed on his feet, but unfortunately he fall backwards and hit the floor with his head, and no there were no padded floors. 15 hours ago · I wonder if this is a case of the climber clipping the top and just sitting back with out yelling take or any such communication. I've noticed this as a casual habit of many of the more experienced climbers at my gym (and at comps for that matter) and it always makes me cringe. The climber shouldn't have to call "take" at the top. If you have to tell to your belayer to catch you, there is something very wrong with your belayer. Jay
Word. I always think it's funny when I'm belaying someone and they get to the top and hang on for dear life until I've looked right at them and say "Gotcha!" Umm..If you're not gonna fall without annoucing it, then I can just hang out by the water fountain 'til you call me over.
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Colinhoglund
Nov 20, 2010, 6:56 PM
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jt512 wrote: macblaze wrote: healyje wrote: From Alpinist's facebook page: In reply to: Christian Knoll Actually it is true, that he didn't use any auto-blocking device. He was using a tuber - the climber had allready clipped the top - when he sat into he just rushed through. The belayer was distracted by surrounding people and it seems that he had let go his hands of the rope. The climber landed on his feet, but unfortunately he fall backwards and hit the floor with his head, and no there were no padded floors. 15 hours ago · I wonder if this is a case of the climber clipping the top and just sitting back with out yelling take or any such communication. I've noticed this as a casual habit of many of the more experienced climbers at my gym (and at comps for that matter) and it always makes me cringe. The climber shouldn't have to call "take" at the top. If you have to tell to your belayer to catch you, there is something very wrong with your belayer. Jay
1+
If your belayer can't handle that, your soloing.
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healyje
Nov 20, 2010, 9:26 PM
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There are numerous approaches, variations, and nuances in belaying overall, but
In reply to: ...and it seems that he had let go his hands of the rope.
isn't one of them
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macblaze
Nov 21, 2010, 1:26 AM
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jt512 wrote: macblaze wrote: healyje wrote: From Alpinist's facebook page: In reply to: Christian Knoll Actually it is true, that he didn't use any auto-blocking device. He was using a tuber - the climber had allready clipped the top - when he sat into he just rushed through. The belayer was distracted by surrounding people and it seems that he had let go his hands of the rope. The climber landed on his feet, but unfortunately he fall backwards and hit the floor with his head, and no there were no padded floors. 15 hours ago · I wonder if this is a case of the climber clipping the top and just sitting back with out yelling take or any such communication. I've noticed this as a casual habit of many of the more experienced climbers at my gym (and at comps for that matter) and it always makes me cringe. The climber shouldn't have to call "take" at the top. If you have to tell to your belayer to catch you, there is something very wrong with your belayer. Jay
Not that I disagree entirely, and yet it seems people do hit the ground. I prefer to check. Call me a n00b if ya want.
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