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Rappel Sling Retrieval Method
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gunkiemike


May 30, 2011, 11:06 AM
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Re: [MarmotPrince] Rappel Sling Retrieval Method [In reply to]
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So the larger ring has to snake around the backside of the block(s) that comprise the anchor. Murphy says that's where it'll get stuck.

I also wonder if the rapping stress (and pressure from the blocking biner perhaps) could drive the smaller ring through the larger ring and then maybe it has trouble backing out of there.

Otherwise you are to be commended for trying to keep the peaks litter-free.


MarmotPrince


May 30, 2011, 2:37 PM
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Re: [qwert] Rappel Sling Retrieval Method [In reply to]
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qwert wrote:
Ok, now it makes sense what you are trying to explain.

Safe?
I wouldnt want to rappel of a roll of tape on the floor, but other than that i dont see a big issue for the rappel (assuming you use proper knots and so on).

However i do see some safety issues when you have to free solo terrain that you deemed steep enough to warrant a rappel. If you have to free solo it and then down climb it anyways, why bother with rapping over it first?

To clean it or to place some tickmarks so that you know where to step/grab?

Also that takes a lot of time. Rigging that thing, rappelling, pulling around a bit, climbing up, stuffing it into your backpack and finally downclimbing

Just leave a sling, find a feature to rappel from directly, or find another way to go down.

qwert

This isn't a scramble anymore...I've found once you get even a little climbing skill, the gap between what you can freeclimb and downclimb safely explodes. You just can't use your feet. Even if there was a spotter, which there isn't, it's still too risky to use. There is no way I would downclimb a low 5 with any exposure. I wonder if elite climbers who can do 5.12 or higher are able to downclimb 5.6 or 5.7.

Good points about time, of course I downclimb whenever possible, so if I pull out my rope there will be no other safe way to go down. If this method is reliable, it will be just about as fast as a regular rappel.

Another good point about the little rappel ring going through the big one, again only experience will be the judge.


notapplicable


May 30, 2011, 4:40 PM
Post #28 of 33 (707 views)
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Re: [MarmotPrince] Rappel Sling Retrieval Method [In reply to]
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MarmotPrince wrote:
This isn't a scramble anymore...I've found once you get even a little climbing skill, the gap between what you can freeclimb and downclimb safely explodes. You just can't use your feet. Even if there was a spotter, which there isn't, it's still too risky to use. There is no way I would downclimb a low 5 with any exposure. I wonder if elite climbers who can do 5.12 or higher are able to downclimb 5.6 or 5.7.

Yes, strong climbers down-climb much harder than 5.7 all the time. IIRC, Honnold onsight down-soloed a multipitch 5.10 some months back.

At the kind of grades you are talking about, you should be able to reverse anything you climb up with a little practice and if you can't, your only way down is up and that is an unnecessarily dangerous position to put yourself in.


rocknice2


May 30, 2011, 5:30 PM
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Re: [MarmotPrince] Rappel Sling Retrieval Method [In reply to]
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Your system will work safley but like someone else said there is lots of room for snafu's.

I would just carry a single 7.2 60m.

Another option using your short rope is,
Put one end of the rope around your anchor.
Tie a knot on a bite and clip a biner to it.
clip the biner to the other end of the rope and throw that end down.
This forms a girth hitch with a biner closing it. You can have your large ring pre-rigged and just pass the long end of the rope through it.
You still need a tag line to pull the ring/biner down .
This would significantly lessen the snag quotient


spikeddem


May 30, 2011, 6:51 PM
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Re: [MarmotPrince] Rappel Sling Retrieval Method [In reply to]
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MarmotPrince wrote:
qwert wrote:
Ok, now it makes sense what you are trying to explain.

Safe?
I wouldnt want to rappel of a roll of tape on the floor, but other than that i dont see a big issue for the rappel (assuming you use proper knots and so on).

However i do see some safety issues when you have to free solo terrain that you deemed steep enough to warrant a rappel. If you have to free solo it and then down climb it anyways, why bother with rapping over it first?

To clean it or to place some tickmarks so that you know where to step/grab?

Also that takes a lot of time. Rigging that thing, rappelling, pulling around a bit, climbing up, stuffing it into your backpack and finally downclimbing

Just leave a sling, find a feature to rappel from directly, or find another way to go down.

qwert

This isn't a scramble anymore...I've found once you get even a little climbing skill, the gap between what you can freeclimb and downclimb safely explodes. You just can't use your feet. Even if there was a spotter, which there isn't, it's still too risky to use. There is no way I would downclimb a low 5 with any exposure. I wonder if elite climbers who can do 5.12 or higher are able to downclimb 5.6 or 5.7.

IMHO+generally speaking, if you can't downclimb the moves on a route before the crux you really don't belong on the route.

I'm not sure if your 5.12+ being able to downclimb 5.6 or 5.7 is a serious question, but yes. Being able to reverse moves (all the way to the ground if need be) is an important aspect of not only soloing, but also trad climbing.

Downclimbing can be practiced, just like other aspects of climbing. It feels awkward until you do it and get better at it.


qwert


May 31, 2011, 12:56 AM
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Re: [MarmotPrince] Rappel Sling Retrieval Method [In reply to]
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MarmotPrince wrote:
qwert wrote:
Ok, now it makes sense what you are trying to explain.

Safe?
I wouldnt want to rappel of a roll of tape on the floor, but other than that i dont see a big issue for the rappel (assuming you use proper knots and so on).

However i do see some safety issues when you have to free solo terrain that you deemed steep enough to warrant a rappel. If you have to free solo it and then down climb it anyways, why bother with rapping over it first?

To clean it or to place some tickmarks so that you know where to step/grab?

Also that takes a lot of time. Rigging that thing, rappelling, pulling around a bit, climbing up, stuffing it into your backpack and finally downclimbing

Just leave a sling, find a feature to rappel from directly, or find another way to go down.

qwert

This isn't a scramble anymore...I've found once you get even a little climbing skill, the gap between what you can freeclimb and downclimb safely explodes. You just can't use your feet. Even if there was a spotter, which there isn't, it's still too risky to use. There is no way I would downclimb a low 5 with any exposure. I wonder if elite climbers who can do 5.12 or higher are able to downclimb 5.6 or 5.7.

Good points about time, of course I downclimb whenever possible, so if I pull out my rope there will be no other safe way to go down. If this method is reliable, it will be just about as fast as a regular rappel.

Another good point about the little rappel ring going through the big one, again only experience will be the judge.
And thats why i dont think this is a good idea, since it will get stuck, and thus will force you to downclimb anyways - however after loosing a significant amount of time by rigging the thing, rappeling, realizing its stuck, climbing up, removing all the crap, and then downclimbing something you really dont want to downclimb Crazy

qwert


rtwilli4


May 31, 2011, 3:38 AM
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Re: [MarmotPrince] Rappel Sling Retrieval Method [In reply to]
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MarmotPrince wrote:
qwert wrote:
Ok, now it makes sense what you are trying to explain.

Safe?
I wouldnt want to rappel of a roll of tape on the floor, but other than that i dont see a big issue for the rappel (assuming you use proper knots and so on).

However i do see some safety issues when you have to free solo terrain that you deemed steep enough to warrant a rappel. If you have to free solo it and then down climb it anyways, why bother with rapping over it first?

To clean it or to place some tickmarks so that you know where to step/grab?

Also that takes a lot of time. Rigging that thing, rappelling, pulling around a bit, climbing up, stuffing it into your backpack and finally downclimbing

Just leave a sling, find a feature to rappel from directly, or find another way to go down.

qwert

This isn't a scramble anymore...I've found once you get even a little climbing skill, the gap between what you can freeclimb and downclimb safely explodes. You just can't use your feet. Even if there was a spotter, which there isn't, it's still too risky to use. There is no way I would downclimb a low 5 with any exposure. I wonder if elite climbers who can do 5.12 or higher are able to downclimb 5.6 or 5.7.

Good points about time, of course I downclimb whenever possible, so if I pull out my rope there will be no other safe way to go down. If this method is reliable, it will be just about as fast as a regular rappel.

Another good point about the little rappel ring going through the big one, again only experience will be the judge.

I don't know any 5.12+ climbers that don't regularly down climb 5.10. Shit, I can even down climb 5.10 when I have to. IMHO if you can't down climb low 5th class w/o a rope then you need a bit of practice. It's part of climbing, and it sounds like it s a big part of the climbing that you do.


Partner j_ung


May 31, 2011, 4:42 AM
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Re: [rhei] Rappel Sling Retrieval Method [In reply to]
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rhei wrote:
Implicit in your plan and in the SummitPost link you provided is the availability of suitable horns to rig your rappel sling around. Great if you can find them, but alpine routes can involve putting slings around boulders, irregular shaped chockstones, flakes, and trees, all of which can easily cause your retrieval system to snag. Simplify your system and for every sling you leave make a point of carrying a garbage sling out.

I'll add that even when the system works, it seems like an awful lot of snag potential as the end of rope and sling come down.

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