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UPDATED 8-7-11:Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA!
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flesh


Jun 4, 2011, 3:24 PM
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UPDATED 8-7-11:Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA!
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It's Finally done!

http://player.vimeo.com/video/27422533?title=0&byline=0&portrait=0

My goal was to put as much weight on my fingers as possible without causing injuries. I wanted to add pure power to my fingers, that's it. Unlike many campusing routines this one doesn't push me even close to my limit in terms or my maximum lockoff or the furthest I can reach. Personally, I think there are better ways to train pull power and body tension than a campus board. Also, this has never been a weakness for me. This workout shouldn't get you very sore after doing it a couple different days anywhere except the finger muscles.



This is what I came up with. I like it better than other campus routines simply because when you do doubles, for that second of impact, you put alot of weight on your fingers. However, you can use a largish size rung because it's still hard to hold. In most cases, the smaller the rung, the more your hand will naturally go into a open crimp or full crimp position in the smallest of rungs. I've had 9 finger injuries from crimping so I wanted to stay away from repetitive power crimping. Also, instead of going to a smaller rung as I've gained power, I've added weight using my adj weight vest. It goes up to 20 pounds and at this point I'm using the smallest rung I can while still remaining almost fully open handed. I do this about 2-4 times a month just depending on a number of things and have seen significant improvement in a controlled enviroment. Also, I've jumped 3 v grades since the end of january. It's hard to say how much of that was due to this workout and how much was due to losing 20lbs but I'd guess the 20 lbs was worth about 2 of the 3 v grades. But who knows. I definately know this pushes my open handed finger strength to the very limit everytime I do it. I am failing long before I'm feeling any sort of pump.

In the beggining of the video, you'll see me using large rungs going up then down... quickly. After I boulder well below my limit to warm up for about 30 minutes... I'll campus without weight on the largest rungs to warm up the campus specific muscles/tendons, etc.

You'll see me using a chunk of block chalk to chalk my fingers just on the first pad which is all that touches the rung. The reason for this is because I've found that when i chalk my whole hand it dries out the gap in the finger nail and causes my fingers to split from repetitive doubles. If you split them bad enough, you won't sleep that night. So just put the chalk on the pad and don't reach into a chalk bag over and over. Plus, if you hold your fingers in a curled position and don't stretch them out throughout the routine you'll be less likely to split them.

I've found through trial and error that it's best to shoot for a minimum of 8 reps and a maximum of 10 reps. If you can't do 8 reps...take away weight or use a larger rung until you can. If you can consistently do 10 reps then add a couple pounds till you're back down to 8.

I like to do 10 minutes rests between because I want to have almost a full recovery between sets and I like to do 6 sets total. I think anything more than that is overkill for pure power. It's nice to have a consistent, controlled enviroment as well. It's so easy as a climber to get stuck in a mindset that you're on a plateau or to convince yourself you're not getting stronger anymore. It's difficult to say this though, as alot of you have found, many times it's just in your head. With this, the rungs always stay the same. The distance between them stays the same. The amount of weight you use can be measured. The rest between sets can be timed, etc. Over the course of time you'll no longer be limited to whether or not your fingers are getting stronger, you'll know. I see improvement in either max weight or max reps almost every time I do this.

When I first came up with this idea in februrary, I could only do a max of 7 reps/no weight on the smaller of the two rungs in this video. In the video, the first set you see me do is without weight and I do 14 reps. My personal best is in this video as well. In one of the sets I do 10 reps with 16lbs in the vest. My previous best was only 8 reps with 16 lbs, two weeks ago.

Since not all of you will be able to start on the smaller rungs, at the very end of the video I included what I suggest you do on the larger rungs starting out. It's in black in white, but basically I climb to one rung below the top to start. Next, I'll campus up on rung to the top the skip two rungs on the way down, go up on rung, skip two down, etc.... by the time your at the bottom you should have completed 8 reps. Once you can do 8 reps, add weight. I went up to adding 30 lbs on this larger rung before I went to a smaller rung. I plan on going up to 30 lbs/12 reps on the rung I'm currently using. After that I'm not sure what i'll do, since I'm already using the smallest rung I can stay open on. Maybe I'll have some custom holds made or start down campusing one handed.

Here's the short version my workout.

-warm up 30 minutes bouldering way below your level taking care never to get very pumped, rest 5 minutes.

-do a warm up campus well below your max either using a larger rung or no weight etc., rest 5 minutes.

SET #1-do a second warm up at maybe 85% your limit. You can do this by either using your smallest rung but with no weight or by using a larger rung with weight.
Take note, every SET is until absolute failure and you better try so hard your guts want to explode or your not trying hard enough! In my video, my first set is the one I start on the smaller rungs but without any weight, I still go until failure, but I don't have any weight on so it's not as hard on my tendons. Rest ten minutes.

Set#2 - In this set I believe I do 10 reps and to warm up my tendons further I do it with a total of ten pounds. Rest ten Minutes.

Set#3- In this set I do 8 reps with about 16lbs. Rest ten minutes.

Set#4- In this set I do 10 reps with 16 lbs, my best so far, rest ten minutes

Set#5- 8 reps, 16lbs, rest ten minutes

Set #6- 10 reps, 10 lbs (I was pretty sure I wouldnt' be able to do 8 reps min with 16 lbs so I lowered weight for last set)

I don't know if this is true but I've been told that if your goal is to build pure power, you don't want to get your arms full of lactic acid because it inhibits your bodies ability to build raw muscle. This workout doesn't build up the lactic acid much because your failing long before the pump sets in and resting long enough between to totally depump. After this workout I don't do any other climbing at all and usually just take one day off after.
The best part? I always know if I'm getting stronger and it never hurts my fingers! PURE POWA lol


(This post was edited by flesh on Sep 23, 2011, 10:11 AM)


sungam


Jun 4, 2011, 3:27 PM
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Re: [flesh] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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I'm psyched!


ceebo


Jun 4, 2011, 4:47 PM
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flesh wrote:
HAHA, well it's actually not done, I promised y'all though so I will put it here next week sometime... I've been busy bouldering outside before it gets to hot. 10PM session coming tonight.

I need to see those bigger rungs you use.. the ones available to me are not looking convincing of gains unless adding stupid amounts of weight.

Looking forward to seeing your set up.


flesh


Jun 9, 2011, 10:50 AM
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Re: [ceebo] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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Well, I finally filmed it. Just gotta figure out how to put it on my puter. You know what's crazy? If this doesn't prove how big a difference weight makes nothing will.

On the same rung, without weight the best I can do is 11 reps, with only 10-11 lbs on me, the best I can do is 7 reps. So that's roughly 35% difference in power from just ten pounds. If that doesn't make it clear how big a difference unnessecary weight makes to folks, nothing will. I've lost 22 lbs in four months now.....

I'll post it a bit later.


johnwesely


Jun 9, 2011, 11:21 AM
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flesh wrote:
Well, I finally filmed it. Just gotta figure out how to put it on my puter. You know what's crazy? If this doesn't prove how big a difference weight makes nothing will.

On the same rung, without weight the best I can do is 11 reps, with only 10-11 lbs on me, the best I can do is 7 reps. So that's roughly 35% difference in power from just ten pounds. If that doesn't make it clear how big a difference unnessecary weight makes to folks, nothing will. I've lost 22 lbs in four months now.....

I'll post it a bit later.

It is a 35% difference in endurance.


mr.tastycakes


Jun 21, 2011, 5:54 AM
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2.5 weeks and counting...


flesh


Jun 21, 2011, 5:26 PM
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mr.tastycakes wrote:
2.5 weeks and counting...

Sorry, leaving tommorrow for two weeks out of town. I'll have to do it when I get back, PROMISE! I updated with a little open handed video though.


flesh


Jun 21, 2011, 5:34 PM
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johnwesely wrote:
flesh wrote:
Well, I finally filmed it. Just gotta figure out how to put it on my puter. You know what's crazy? If this doesn't prove how big a difference weight makes nothing will.

On the same rung, without weight the best I can do is 11 reps, with only 10-11 lbs on me, the best I can do is 7 reps. So that's roughly 35% difference in power from just ten pounds. If that doesn't make it clear how big a difference unnessecary weight makes to folks, nothing will. I've lost 22 lbs in four months now.....

I'll post it a bit later.

It is a 35% difference in endurance.

Sure, you may call it endurance, I may call it power, maybe it would be best described as power endurance. I call it power simply because if you look at it in the form of elapsed time, the difference is about 4-5 seconds. The total amount of time it takes me to do 11 reps is about 12-13 seconds, in my mind, it's still power. 13 seconds or less of climbing, no matter what, is power climbing and has nothing to do with endurance.


johnwesely


Jun 21, 2011, 6:28 PM
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flesh wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
flesh wrote:
Well, I finally filmed it. Just gotta figure out how to put it on my puter. You know what's crazy? If this doesn't prove how big a difference weight makes nothing will.

On the same rung, without weight the best I can do is 11 reps, with only 10-11 lbs on me, the best I can do is 7 reps. So that's roughly 35% difference in power from just ten pounds. If that doesn't make it clear how big a difference unnessecary weight makes to folks, nothing will. I've lost 22 lbs in four months now.....

I'll post it a bit later.

It is a 35% difference in endurance.

Sure, you may call it endurance, I may call it power, maybe it would be best described as power endurance. I call it power simply because if you look at it in the form of elapsed time, the difference is about 4-5 seconds. The total amount of time it takes me to do 11 reps is about 12-13 seconds, in my mind, it's still power. 13 seconds or less of climbing, no matter what, is power climbing and has nothing to do with endurance.

Power is work/time. 13 seconds of climbing could be very powerful, but that is not necessarily true. If you are increasing reps, you are increasing endurance.


jbro_135


Jun 22, 2011, 9:22 AM
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dab


flesh


Jun 22, 2011, 10:56 AM
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jbro_135 wrote:
dab

no'. I had to move the pads further from the wall... for that reason... thats why there a ways back in that section. There was no dab, but thanks for being a dick.

If you google pro tips slopers you can see the first ascentionist and he does it the same way.


flesh


Jun 22, 2011, 10:59 AM
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I'm talking about campusing and until failure, I don't stop until i fail, not when I get to a certain rep. but whatever, if you want to call a increase of climbing from 9-13 seconds till failure endurance feel free. pz


Grizvok


Jun 22, 2011, 12:04 PM
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flesh wrote:
I'm talking about campusing and until failure, I don't stop until i fail, not when I get to a certain rep. but whatever, if you want to call a increase of climbing from 9-13 seconds till failure endurance feel free. pz

Except the fact that it is endurance. Increased POWER would probably be you accelerating off of the hold faster which was untested and never mentioned.


flesh


Jun 22, 2011, 1:44 PM
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Grizvok wrote:
flesh wrote:
I'm talking about campusing and until failure, I don't stop until i fail, not when I get to a certain rep. but whatever, if you want to call a increase of climbing from 9-13 seconds till failure endurance feel free. pz

Except the fact that it is endurance. Increased POWER would probably be you accelerating off of the hold faster which was untested and never mentioned.

blah blah blah


dynosore


Jun 22, 2011, 1:53 PM
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Well, that's an increase of 4 seconds, or about 45%. When you do something difficult/stressful for a time, you endure it, not power it.

Weren't you the one just talking about how important a 35% difference is Crazy


jbro_135


Jun 22, 2011, 2:18 PM
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flesh wrote:
jbro_135 wrote:
dab

no'. I had to move the pads further from the wall... for that reason... thats why there a ways back in that section. There was no dab, but thanks for being a dick.

If you google pro tips slopers you can see the first ascentionist and he does it the same way.


based on your quick and defensive response...



dab.


flesh


Jun 22, 2011, 11:12 PM
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 Is there anyone out there that can explain to me why these people are so unneccessarily negative? Is it jealously like you guys said it was before? Help me understand, seriously. Is there no good reason? Is this simply how most people are and I haven't noticed in my bubble?

Over 14 years of climbing, every climber I've met in person shares the same reverance for climbing that I do and seems to separate climbing life from the bullshit involved in day to day life. Yet on this climbing forum, I feel like I'm in high school again.

I guess climbing has become so mainstream, it's just like everything else now?


lazymonkey


Jun 23, 2011, 3:04 AM
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Lol....dude we're on an anonymous internet message board...people talk ish for no good reason...screw em! You'd probably crush all of their projects in 1 session...haters gonna hate


sungam


Jun 23, 2011, 6:15 AM
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It's kinda enjoyable to slam people on line. Hell, I've done shit tons of it myself. It's probably not personal, they do it to almost everyone. Good for getting you're kicks when your a little bored.


saint_john


Jun 23, 2011, 6:58 AM
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flesh wrote:
Is there anyone out there that can explain to me why these people are so unneccessarily negative? Is it jealously like you guys said it was before? Help me understand, seriously. Is there no good reason? Is this simply how most people are and I haven't noticed in my bubble?

Over 14 years of climbing, every climber I've met in person shares the same reverance for climbing that I do and seems to separate climbing life from the bullshit involved in day to day life. Yet on this climbing forum, I feel like I'm in high school again.

I guess climbing has become so mainstream, it's just like everything else now?

welcome to the internet.


ceebo


Jun 23, 2011, 9:55 AM
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flesh wrote:
Is there anyone out there that can explain to me why these people are so unneccessarily negative? Is it jealously like you guys said it was before? Help me understand, seriously. Is there no good reason? Is this simply how most people are and I haven't noticed in my bubble?

Over 14 years of climbing, every climber I've met in person shares the same reverance for climbing that I do and seems to separate climbing life from the bullshit involved in day to day life. Yet on this climbing forum, I feel like I'm in high school again.

I guess climbing has become so mainstream, it's just like everything else now?

Story time Laugh

This reminds me of some things Dave mcleod was talking about. Allot of climbers spent/spend or are going to spend years doing the same shit ''thinking'' it was or will help them. Such narrow minded people appear not to like thinking (and that is referring to avg poster on rc.com) outside the box.. or doing things that the ''pro's'' did not cover or validate in the SCC. The SCC is a beginner book, don't care who is offended by that.. read it sure.. but fuck sake use it then move on to higher things.

Basically, your quick improvement (FROM HARD WORK) shows most of the people here to be wrong.. and that in truth.. they are poor climbers. They don't like that, maybe to the point of denial.

Personally i think this type of person want to get good at climbing but they don't have the determination to put in the ''real'' hard work. They think that technique is key.. and that sweating blood from hard physical work outs does not play any part in that equation.

I realised a little while back that i was such a person.. convinced that the likes of endurance/technique/ 4x4 drills would make me a better climber. Yes they helped.. but i can say with certainty i wasted at least 8 month doing too much of it. Instead of burying my head in the sand i admitted i was doing things wrong. So i used this forum and other sources to try and understand how ''real'' climbers (those who are actually climbing respectable grades) got good.. how they trained etc etc. Yes.. i said it.. im a grade chaser.

I posted some of my questions and thoughts/theory's on here but always got flamed by morons climbing mediocre grades and low motivation. I asked many things about weighted training, forms of cross training and so on.. all with the same answer ''just go climb'' - ''read the SCC'' (even after stating on many occasions i have) to the reply of ''read it again''.

I read a few blog's about campusing and so on. I started doing some here and their. Maybe a month or 2 later you came along with your posts of improvement and gave first hand views.. instead of quoting shit from the scc or quotes of a quote from the scc as so many do here.

I don't care if what i say makes it look like im licking your arse. Because what you have posted has helped me HUGELY in motivation, clarification and also validation. Reading a blog is one thing, but being able to talk to a person (like you) is a complete other story. Who the fk should i listen too?.. i guy telling me to read the scc and is climbing 5.11?.. or a guy who is working fking hard.. and climbing v12 or what not. Yeah.. its a no brainer.

What im trying to say is.. in the nicest way possible, rc.com has sections.. such as beginners, gear heads and so so. I thought that ''technique and training'' would be for those who wish to get really good AND STRONG in climbing. What i found it to be.. for 99% of the time is complete novice OR avg climbers with their heads up their jacksy.. who will never amount to much other than mediocre climbing of .12 and below.


I sense some flame on this one.


kaizen


Jun 23, 2011, 12:03 PM
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ceebo wrote:
flesh wrote:
Is there anyone out there that can explain to me why these people are so unneccessarily negative? Is it jealously like you guys said it was before? Help me understand, seriously. Is there no good reason? Is this simply how most people are and I haven't noticed in my bubble?

Over 14 years of climbing, every climber I've met in person shares the same reverance for climbing that I do and seems to separate climbing life from the bullshit involved in day to day life. Yet on this climbing forum, I feel like I'm in high school again.

I guess climbing has become so mainstream, it's just like everything else now?

Story time Laugh

This reminds me of some things Dave mcleod was talking about. Allot of climbers spent/spend or are going to spend years doing the same shit ''thinking'' it was or will help them. Such narrow minded people appear not to like thinking (and that is referring to avg poster on rc.com) outside the box.. or doing things that the ''pro's'' did not cover or validate in the SCC. The SCC is a beginner book, don't care who is offended by that.. read it sure.. but fuck sake use it then move on to higher things.

Basically, your quick improvement (FROM HARD WORK) shows most of the people here to be wrong.. and that in truth.. they are poor climbers. They don't like that, maybe to the point of denial.

Personally i think this type of person want to get good at climbing but they don't have the determination to put in the ''real'' hard work. They think that technique is key.. and that sweating blood from hard physical work outs does not play any part in that equation.

I realised a little while back that i was such a person.. convinced that the likes of endurance/technique/ 4x4 drills would make me a better climber. Yes they helped.. but i can say with certainty i wasted at least 8 month doing too much of it. Instead of burying my head in the sand i admitted i was doing things wrong. So i used this forum and other sources to try and understand how ''real'' climbers (those who are actually climbing respectable grades) got good.. how they trained etc etc. Yes.. i said it.. im a grade chaser.

I posted some of my questions and thoughts/theory's on here but always got flamed by morons climbing mediocre grades and low motivation. I asked many things about weighted training, forms of cross training and so on.. all with the same answer ''just go climb'' - ''read the SCC'' (even after stating on many occasions i have) to the reply of ''read it again''.

I read a few blog's about campusing and so on. I started doing some here and their. Maybe a month or 2 later you came along with your posts of improvement and gave first hand views.. instead of quoting shit from the scc or quotes of a quote from the scc as so many do here.

I don't care if what i say makes it look like im licking your arse. Because what you have posted has helped me HUGELY in motivation, clarification and also validation. Reading a blog is one thing, but being able to talk to a person (like you) is a complete other story. Who the fk should i listen too?.. i guy telling me to read the scc and is climbing 5.11?.. or a guy who is working fking hard.. and climbing v12 or what not. Yeah.. its a no brainer.

What im trying to say is.. in the nicest way possible, rc.com has sections.. such as beginners, gear heads and so so. I thought that ''technique and training'' would be for those who wish to get really good AND STRONG in climbing. What i found it to be.. for 99% of the time is complete novice OR avg climbers with their heads up their jacksy.. who will never amount to much other than mediocre climbing of .12 and below.


I sense some flame on this one.

With all due respect, didn't you just post how the hardest route you've sent was in the 7b (5.12b) range?

I'm also not sure why you insist that you can't get stronger while training technique. I sure as hell feel worn out after a gym session of "technique training" on steep walls.

Strength gains will help. But the whole argument isn't that strength training is bad, it's about using your training time efficiently. One makes you stronger, the other can make you stronger and efficient. You'll need both to reach maximum potential, and holes in ones climbing will be different for everyone.

Wolfgang was crushing 8c before the campus board was invented Tongue


ceebo


Jun 23, 2011, 12:55 PM
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Re: [kaizen] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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kaizen wrote:
ceebo wrote:
flesh wrote:
Is there anyone out there that can explain to me why these people are so unneccessarily negative? Is it jealously like you guys said it was before? Help me understand, seriously. Is there no good reason? Is this simply how most people are and I haven't noticed in my bubble?

Over 14 years of climbing, every climber I've met in person shares the same reverance for climbing that I do and seems to separate climbing life from the bullshit involved in day to day life. Yet on this climbing forum, I feel like I'm in high school again.

I guess climbing has become so mainstream, it's just like everything else now?

Story time Laugh

This reminds me of some things Dave mcleod was talking about. Allot of climbers spent/spend or are going to spend years doing the same shit ''thinking'' it was or will help them. Such narrow minded people appear not to like thinking (and that is referring to avg poster on rc.com) outside the box.. or doing things that the ''pro's'' did not cover or validate in the SCC. The SCC is a beginner book, don't care who is offended by that.. read it sure.. but fuck sake use it then move on to higher things.

Basically, your quick improvement (FROM HARD WORK) shows most of the people here to be wrong.. and that in truth.. they are poor climbers. They don't like that, maybe to the point of denial.

Personally i think this type of person want to get good at climbing but they don't have the determination to put in the ''real'' hard work. They think that technique is key.. and that sweating blood from hard physical work outs does not play any part in that equation.

I realised a little while back that i was such a person.. convinced that the likes of endurance/technique/ 4x4 drills would make me a better climber. Yes they helped.. but i can say with certainty i wasted at least 8 month doing too much of it. Instead of burying my head in the sand i admitted i was doing things wrong. So i used this forum and other sources to try and understand how ''real'' climbers (those who are actually climbing respectable grades) got good.. how they trained etc etc. Yes.. i said it.. im a grade chaser.

I posted some of my questions and thoughts/theory's on here but always got flamed by morons climbing mediocre grades and low motivation. I asked many things about weighted training, forms of cross training and so on.. all with the same answer ''just go climb'' - ''read the SCC'' (even after stating on many occasions i have) to the reply of ''read it again''.

I read a few blog's about campusing and so on. I started doing some here and their. Maybe a month or 2 later you came along with your posts of improvement and gave first hand views.. instead of quoting shit from the scc or quotes of a quote from the scc as so many do here.

I don't care if what i say makes it look like im licking your arse. Because what you have posted has helped me HUGELY in motivation, clarification and also validation. Reading a blog is one thing, but being able to talk to a person (like you) is a complete other story. Who the fk should i listen too?.. i guy telling me to read the scc and is climbing 5.11?.. or a guy who is working fking hard.. and climbing v12 or what not. Yeah.. its a no brainer.

What im trying to say is.. in the nicest way possible, rc.com has sections.. such as beginners, gear heads and so so. I thought that ''technique and training'' would be for those who wish to get really good AND STRONG in climbing. What i found it to be.. for 99% of the time is complete novice OR avg climbers with their heads up their jacksy.. who will never amount to much other than mediocre climbing of .12 and below.


I sense some flame on this one.

With all due respect, didn't you just post how the hardest route you've sent was in the 7b (5.12b) range?

I'm also not sure why you insist that you can't get stronger while training technique. I sure as hell feel worn out after a gym session of "technique training" on steep walls.

Strength gains will help. But the whole argument isn't that strength training is bad, it's about using your training time efficiently. One makes you stronger, the other can make you stronger and efficient. You'll need both to reach maximum potential, and holes in ones climbing will be different for everyone.

Wolfgang was crushing 8c before the campus board was invented Tongue

Slightly harder, but not the point. The point is that many people will be or are stuck at the same level. That will not happen for me.. as i ''try'' to keep a open mind for ideas or training concepts that are at least new to me.

Their is a difference between acquiring a certain level of mastery over basic techniques... and endlessly drilling them. Anybody who has put in the effort and time can easily reach an acceptable base of technique within 1-2 year. Any refinement of the above can be acquired as and when a particular route demands it. It was exactly when i stopped wasting my time doing such shit and actually started trying to climb/train harder.. when i started to climb harder.. strange? huh?.

And wolf gang invent the campus board, ask yourself why. Maybe he was better off doing some endurance drills.


redlude97


Jun 23, 2011, 1:13 PM
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Re: [ceebo] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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ceebo wrote:
kaizen wrote:
ceebo wrote:
flesh wrote:
Is there anyone out there that can explain to me why these people are so unneccessarily negative? Is it jealously like you guys said it was before? Help me understand, seriously. Is there no good reason? Is this simply how most people are and I haven't noticed in my bubble?

Over 14 years of climbing, every climber I've met in person shares the same reverance for climbing that I do and seems to separate climbing life from the bullshit involved in day to day life. Yet on this climbing forum, I feel like I'm in high school again.

I guess climbing has become so mainstream, it's just like everything else now?

Story time Laugh

This reminds me of some things Dave mcleod was talking about. Allot of climbers spent/spend or are going to spend years doing the same shit ''thinking'' it was or will help them. Such narrow minded people appear not to like thinking (and that is referring to avg poster on rc.com) outside the box.. or doing things that the ''pro's'' did not cover or validate in the SCC. The SCC is a beginner book, don't care who is offended by that.. read it sure.. but fuck sake use it then move on to higher things.

Basically, your quick improvement (FROM HARD WORK) shows most of the people here to be wrong.. and that in truth.. they are poor climbers. They don't like that, maybe to the point of denial.

Personally i think this type of person want to get good at climbing but they don't have the determination to put in the ''real'' hard work. They think that technique is key.. and that sweating blood from hard physical work outs does not play any part in that equation.

I realised a little while back that i was such a person.. convinced that the likes of endurance/technique/ 4x4 drills would make me a better climber. Yes they helped.. but i can say with certainty i wasted at least 8 month doing too much of it. Instead of burying my head in the sand i admitted i was doing things wrong. So i used this forum and other sources to try and understand how ''real'' climbers (those who are actually climbing respectable grades) got good.. how they trained etc etc. Yes.. i said it.. im a grade chaser.

I posted some of my questions and thoughts/theory's on here but always got flamed by morons climbing mediocre grades and low motivation. I asked many things about weighted training, forms of cross training and so on.. all with the same answer ''just go climb'' - ''read the SCC'' (even after stating on many occasions i have) to the reply of ''read it again''.

I read a few blog's about campusing and so on. I started doing some here and their. Maybe a month or 2 later you came along with your posts of improvement and gave first hand views.. instead of quoting shit from the scc or quotes of a quote from the scc as so many do here.

I don't care if what i say makes it look like im licking your arse. Because what you have posted has helped me HUGELY in motivation, clarification and also validation. Reading a blog is one thing, but being able to talk to a person (like you) is a complete other story. Who the fk should i listen too?.. i guy telling me to read the scc and is climbing 5.11?.. or a guy who is working fking hard.. and climbing v12 or what not. Yeah.. its a no brainer.

What im trying to say is.. in the nicest way possible, rc.com has sections.. such as beginners, gear heads and so so. I thought that ''technique and training'' would be for those who wish to get really good AND STRONG in climbing. What i found it to be.. for 99% of the time is complete novice OR avg climbers with their heads up their jacksy.. who will never amount to much other than mediocre climbing of .12 and below.


I sense some flame on this one.

With all due respect, didn't you just post how the hardest route you've sent was in the 7b (5.12b) range?

I'm also not sure why you insist that you can't get stronger while training technique. I sure as hell feel worn out after a gym session of "technique training" on steep walls.

Strength gains will help. But the whole argument isn't that strength training is bad, it's about using your training time efficiently. One makes you stronger, the other can make you stronger and efficient. You'll need both to reach maximum potential, and holes in ones climbing will be different for everyone.

Wolfgang was crushing 8c before the campus board was invented Tongue

Slightly harder, but not the point. The point is that many people will be or are stuck at the same level. That will not happen for me.. as i ''try'' to keep a open mind for ideas or training concepts that are at least new to me.

Their is a difference between acquiring a certain level of mastery over basic techniques... and endlessly drilling them. Anybody who has put in the effort and time can easily reach an acceptable base of technique within 1-2 year. Any refinement of the above can be acquired as and when a particular route demands it. It was exactly when i stopped wasting my time doing such shit and actually started trying to climb/train harder.. when i started to climb harder.. strange? huh?.

And wolf gang invent the campus board, ask yourself why. Maybe he was better off doing some endurance drills.
You seem to be conflating the idea about training harder and training differently. Most climbers never climb at an elite level because they don't have the time or willpower to train are a high level consistently to get big gains. This is irrespective of which drills they do. There are dozens of climbers in the gym who do halfass hangboard and campus training and can't climb very hard routes, and there are dozens of climbers who never touch them that climb harder. Getting better at climbing isn't totally about which training regimen you use, but more about the level of effort and commitment you are willing to put in, this probably contributed more to your gains than any change in training you implemented, and your posts over the last few months make this clear. You keep bringing up single cases where campusing or hangboarding have helped certain climbers, but for every elite climber that uses these, there is another who doesn't and is arguably just as strong. Based on your conclusion no one can get strong if all they do is just climb, yet this clearly isn't the case.


ceebo


Jun 23, 2011, 2:11 PM
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Re: [redlude97] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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redlude97 wrote:
ceebo wrote:
kaizen wrote:
ceebo wrote:
flesh wrote:
Is there anyone out there that can explain to me why these people are so unneccessarily negative? Is it jealously like you guys said it was before? Help me understand, seriously. Is there no good reason? Is this simply how most people are and I haven't noticed in my bubble?

Over 14 years of climbing, every climber I've met in person shares the same reverance for climbing that I do and seems to separate climbing life from the bullshit involved in day to day life. Yet on this climbing forum, I feel like I'm in high school again.

I guess climbing has become so mainstream, it's just like everything else now?

Story time Laugh

This reminds me of some things Dave mcleod was talking about. Allot of climbers spent/spend or are going to spend years doing the same shit ''thinking'' it was or will help them. Such narrow minded people appear not to like thinking (and that is referring to avg poster on rc.com) outside the box.. or doing things that the ''pro's'' did not cover or validate in the SCC. The SCC is a beginner book, don't care who is offended by that.. read it sure.. but fuck sake use it then move on to higher things.

Basically, your quick improvement (FROM HARD WORK) shows most of the people here to be wrong.. and that in truth.. they are poor climbers. They don't like that, maybe to the point of denial.

Personally i think this type of person want to get good at climbing but they don't have the determination to put in the ''real'' hard work. They think that technique is key.. and that sweating blood from hard physical work outs does not play any part in that equation.

I realised a little while back that i was such a person.. convinced that the likes of endurance/technique/ 4x4 drills would make me a better climber. Yes they helped.. but i can say with certainty i wasted at least 8 month doing too much of it. Instead of burying my head in the sand i admitted i was doing things wrong. So i used this forum and other sources to try and understand how ''real'' climbers (those who are actually climbing respectable grades) got good.. how they trained etc etc. Yes.. i said it.. im a grade chaser.

I posted some of my questions and thoughts/theory's on here but always got flamed by morons climbing mediocre grades and low motivation. I asked many things about weighted training, forms of cross training and so on.. all with the same answer ''just go climb'' - ''read the SCC'' (even after stating on many occasions i have) to the reply of ''read it again''.

I read a few blog's about campusing and so on. I started doing some here and their. Maybe a month or 2 later you came along with your posts of improvement and gave first hand views.. instead of quoting shit from the scc or quotes of a quote from the scc as so many do here.

I don't care if what i say makes it look like im licking your arse. Because what you have posted has helped me HUGELY in motivation, clarification and also validation. Reading a blog is one thing, but being able to talk to a person (like you) is a complete other story. Who the fk should i listen too?.. i guy telling me to read the scc and is climbing 5.11?.. or a guy who is working fking hard.. and climbing v12 or what not. Yeah.. its a no brainer.

What im trying to say is.. in the nicest way possible, rc.com has sections.. such as beginners, gear heads and so so. I thought that ''technique and training'' would be for those who wish to get really good AND STRONG in climbing. What i found it to be.. for 99% of the time is complete novice OR avg climbers with their heads up their jacksy.. who will never amount to much other than mediocre climbing of .12 and below.


I sense some flame on this one.

With all due respect, didn't you just post how the hardest route you've sent was in the 7b (5.12b) range?

I'm also not sure why you insist that you can't get stronger while training technique. I sure as hell feel worn out after a gym session of "technique training" on steep walls.

Strength gains will help. But the whole argument isn't that strength training is bad, it's about using your training time efficiently. One makes you stronger, the other can make you stronger and efficient. You'll need both to reach maximum potential, and holes in ones climbing will be different for everyone.

Wolfgang was crushing 8c before the campus board was invented Tongue

Slightly harder, but not the point. The point is that many people will be or are stuck at the same level. That will not happen for me.. as i ''try'' to keep a open mind for ideas or training concepts that are at least new to me.

Their is a difference between acquiring a certain level of mastery over basic techniques... and endlessly drilling them. Anybody who has put in the effort and time can easily reach an acceptable base of technique within 1-2 year. Any refinement of the above can be acquired as and when a particular route demands it. It was exactly when i stopped wasting my time doing such shit and actually started trying to climb/train harder.. when i started to climb harder.. strange? huh?.

And wolf gang invent the campus board, ask yourself why. Maybe he was better off doing some endurance drills.
You seem to be conflating the idea about training harder and training differently. Most climbers never climb at an elite level because they don't have the time or willpower to train are a high level consistently to get big gains. This is irrespective of which drills they do. There are dozens of climbers in the gym who do halfass hangboard and campus training and can't climb very hard routes, and there are dozens of climbers who never touch them that climb harder. Getting better at climbing isn't totally about which training regimen you use, but more about the level of effort and commitment you are willing to put in, this probably contributed more to your gains than any change in training you implemented, and your posts over the last few months make this clear. You keep bringing up single cases where campusing or hangboarding have helped certain climbers, but for every elite climber that uses these, there is another who doesn't and is arguably just as strong. Based on your conclusion no one can get strong if all they do is just climb, yet this clearly isn't the case.

I am not saying that at all. If a person had a really nice range of out door routes in their area to get strong on then sure. I can not speak for the rest of you.. but i certainly do not have that, i really wish i did. Travel is an option, but with family's to support how many of you are selfish enough to take off for weeks at a time to put in the mileage. Imo it has to be weeks/months in order to make gains on such routes or it is just not worth while from a progression stance.

It is just not possible to go climb a thousand 8a's.. then expect to be able to climb a 8c. So if their is no (or not enough) grades in-between what can you do?.. just climb imo is no longer enough. I guess that would be where the likes of weighted climbing spacific training comes in to ''bridge'' the gap a little (notice word little).

Indoor climbing is ofc a good option to get stronger.. but they are commercial and want profit. Setting hard routes when 98% of customers don't climb above 6c is understandably (but annoyingly) a fail business plan. So then you wind up with a hand full of good climbers fighting over the few worthwhile routes available. It amounts to a complete waste of money and time.. = why i built my own wall and campus board.


johnwesely


Jun 23, 2011, 3:27 PM
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Re: [ceebo] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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ceebo wrote:
And wolf gang invent the campus board, ask yourself why. Maybe he was better off doing some endurance drills.

The reason that doing endurance drills is such common advice is because most climbers are incredibly strong in comparison to their endurance because of bouldering gyms. Wolfgang probably did not have that problem. Also, if you do them correctly, a 4x4 is a hundred times more debilitating than any campus workout and was a tool developed, like the campus board, to develop the fitness to climb world class routes.


Grizvok


Jun 23, 2011, 3:37 PM
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Re: [flesh] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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flesh wrote:
Is there anyone out there that can explain to me why these people are so unneccessarily negative? Is it jealously like you guys said it was before? Help me understand, seriously. Is there no good reason? Is this simply how most people are and I haven't noticed in my bubble?

Over 14 years of climbing, every climber I've met in person shares the same reverance for climbing that I do and seems to separate climbing life from the bullshit involved in day to day life. Yet on this climbing forum, I feel like I'm in high school again.

I guess climbing has become so mainstream, it's just like everything else now?

I hope you aren't talking about me. I was simply stating that you were incorrect in saying it was an increase in power.


ceebo


Jun 23, 2011, 3:45 PM
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Re: [johnwesely] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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johnwesely wrote:
ceebo wrote:
And wolf gang invent the campus board, ask yourself why. Maybe he was better off doing some endurance drills.

The reason that doing endurance drills is such common advice is because most climbers are incredibly strong in comparison to their endurance because of bouldering gyms. Wolfgang probably did not have that problem. Also, if you do them correctly, a 4x4 is a hundred times more debilitating than any campus workout and was a tool developed, like the campus board, to develop the fitness to climb world class routes.

I wont argue with that, but i have never once done a 4x4 with ought multiples interruptions by random climbers. Also my understanding is that 4x4's targets high end endurance where as campusing pushes maximum strength limit and strength endurance. Could be wrong on that.


johnwesely


Jun 23, 2011, 3:52 PM
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ceebo wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
ceebo wrote:
And wolf gang invent the campus board, ask yourself why. Maybe he was better off doing some endurance drills.

The reason that doing endurance drills is such common advice is because most climbers are incredibly strong in comparison to their endurance because of bouldering gyms. Wolfgang probably did not have that problem. Also, if you do them correctly, a 4x4 is a hundred times more debilitating than any campus workout and was a tool developed, like the campus board, to develop the fitness to climb world class routes.

I wont argue with that, but i have never once done a 4x4 with ought multiples interruptions by random climbers. Also my understanding is that 4x4's targets high end endurance where as campusing pushes maximum strength limit and strength endurance. Could be wrong on that.

I doubt campusing does much for endurance unless you are doing tons of reps, and then you would be much better off doing something else.

I started doing 4x4s in earnest a few months ago. Due to my schedule being really weird, I haven't been able to do more than 3 sessions in a row without long breaks in between, but my hardest onsight is now a grade above where my previous hardest redpoint was before I started 4x4s.


ceebo


Jun 23, 2011, 4:03 PM
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Re: [johnwesely] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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johnwesely wrote:
ceebo wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
ceebo wrote:
And wolf gang invent the campus board, ask yourself why. Maybe he was better off doing some endurance drills.

The reason that doing endurance drills is such common advice is because most climbers are incredibly strong in comparison to their endurance because of bouldering gyms. Wolfgang probably did not have that problem. Also, if you do them correctly, a 4x4 is a hundred times more debilitating than any campus workout and was a tool developed, like the campus board, to develop the fitness to climb world class routes.

I wont argue with that, but i have never once done a 4x4 with ought multiples interruptions by random climbers. Also my understanding is that 4x4's targets high end endurance where as campusing pushes maximum strength limit and strength endurance. Could be wrong on that.

I doubt campusing does much for endurance unless you are doing tons of reps, and then you would be much better off doing something else.

I started doing 4x4s in earnest a few months ago. Due to my schedule being really weird, I haven't been able to do more than 3 sessions in a row without long breaks in between, but my hardest onsight is now a grade above where my previous hardest redpoint was before I started 4x4s.

Guess i will try to read up on it. I just thought that in pushing maximum strength you are at the peak if not slightly beyond the highest level of strength endurance.

Anyway, good for you on the improvements.


johnwesely


Jun 23, 2011, 4:49 PM
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ceebo wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
ceebo wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
ceebo wrote:
And wolf gang invent the campus board, ask yourself why. Maybe he was better off doing some endurance drills.

The reason that doing endurance drills is such common advice is because most climbers are incredibly strong in comparison to their endurance because of bouldering gyms. Wolfgang probably did not have that problem. Also, if you do them correctly, a 4x4 is a hundred times more debilitating than any campus workout and was a tool developed, like the campus board, to develop the fitness to climb world class routes.

I wont argue with that, but i have never once done a 4x4 with ought multiples interruptions by random climbers. Also my understanding is that 4x4's targets high end endurance where as campusing pushes maximum strength limit and strength endurance. Could be wrong on that.

I doubt campusing does much for endurance unless you are doing tons of reps, and then you would be much better off doing something else.

I started doing 4x4s in earnest a few months ago. Due to my schedule being really weird, I haven't been able to do more than 3 sessions in a row without long breaks in between, but my hardest onsight is now a grade above where my previous hardest redpoint was before I started 4x4s.

Guess i will try to read up on it. I just thought that in pushing maximum strength you are at the peak if not slightly beyond the highest level of strength endurance.

Anyway, good for you on the improvements.

I just wanted everyone to know that I was being critical to enhance my own understanding, not to get down on you or flesh. You guys are like brothers to me.


sungam


Jun 24, 2011, 9:10 AM
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Re: [flesh] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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By the way, I'm assuming that those were your night-lights? Looks like they worked pretty damn well.


billcoe_


Jun 24, 2011, 9:53 AM
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flesh wrote:
Is there anyone out there that can explain to me why these people are so unneccessarily negative? Is it jealously like you guys said it was before? Help me understand, seriously. Is there no good reason? Is this simply how most people are and I haven't noticed in my bubble?

Over 14 years of climbing, every climber I've met in person shares the same reverance for climbing that I do and seems to separate climbing life from the bullshit involved in day to day life. Yet on this climbing forum, I feel like I'm in high school again.

I guess climbing has become so mainstream, it's just like everything else now?

Shit Flesh, I was just thinking the same thing when I got to your post here! Like who the hell is "one staring" your posts? Dudes, if you don't want to read this stuff go elsewhere. Haters and RC.com gankers are gonna hate I guess.

Take care Flesh and thanks for the stokage!


ceebo


Jun 24, 2011, 10:30 AM
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Re: [billcoe_] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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That problem looks nice, got any more?.


sungam


Jun 24, 2011, 10:48 AM
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Flesh. [In reply to]
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P.S. Flesh, you may want to look into getting JT512's rc.com tweaks / killfile. It automatically hides all the posts of anyone you file. Very useful.


ceebo


Jun 24, 2011, 10:52 AM
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Re: [sungam] Flesh. [In reply to]
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sungam wrote:
P.S. Flesh, you may want to look into getting JT512's rc.com tweaks / killfile. It automatically hides all the posts of anyone you file. Very useful.

Ignorance is bliss, and all of that.


potreroed


Jun 28, 2011, 8:49 PM
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Re: [ceebo] Flesh. [In reply to]
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Sorry, Ceebo, but there's no such thing as respectable grades or mediocre grades. All climbing is good in whatever discipline and level one feels comfortable in. You might be a numbers chaser but most of us are more interested in climbing good routes, regardless of the grade.


ceebo


Jun 29, 2011, 8:37 AM
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potreroed wrote:
Sorry, Ceebo, but there's no such thing as respectable grades or mediocre grades. All climbing is good in whatever discipline and level one feels comfortable in. You might be a numbers chaser but most of us are more interested in climbing good routes, regardless of the grade.

Why do you assume a person who is a grade chaser has less love for climbing than you?. And ofc their is such thing as mediocre.. unless i am imagining this list of difficulty grades in order from easiest to hardest.

Btw, you may not know this ( < sarcasm).. but it is possible to pick a fun and enjoyable looking hard route. Besides, the guy who can climb the hardest.. can go to any crag and have greater option of ''fun climbs''.... logical huh?.


(This post was edited by ceebo on Jun 29, 2011, 8:48 AM)


essay


Jun 29, 2011, 9:25 AM
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Re: [flesh] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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Dude, if you don't want the haters feedback, don't post videos of yourself on Rock climbing. com. Submit them to 8a instead, a site with actual climbers who are not projecting 12-.


DouglasHunter


Jun 29, 2011, 12:22 PM
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Re: [flesh] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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In reply to:
This climb was rated v12 originally, however, I suspect it's a little easier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpxClpxnSnE&feature=related

Hold on, that's Mr. Mom put up by Jeff Webb back in 95 or 96. I don't remember him calling it V12. It was more like V9 if I recall correctly.

Grade inflation anyone?Unsure


serpico


Jun 29, 2011, 1:26 PM
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Re: [DouglasHunter] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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DouglasHunter wrote:
In reply to:
This climb was rated v12 originally, however, I suspect it's a little easier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpxClpxnSnE&feature=related

Hold on, that's Mr. Mom put up by Jeff Webb back in 95 or 96. I don't remember him calling it V12. It was more like V9 if I recall correctly.

Grade inflation anyone?Unsure

So that's how you improve 3 grades with no injuries.


jbro_135


Jun 29, 2011, 5:59 PM
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Re: [DouglasHunter] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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DouglasHunter wrote:
In reply to:
This climb was rated v12 originally, however, I suspect it's a little easier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpxClpxnSnE&feature=related

Hold on, that's Mr. Mom put up by Jeff Webb back in 95 or 96. I don't remember him calling it V12. It was more like V9 if I recall correctly.

Grade inflation anyone?Unsure


lol, i think i'll buy two copies of your new book now...

10 copies if you replace the word every use of the word "failing" in the book with "ceeboing"


DouglasHunter


Jun 29, 2011, 7:19 PM
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Re: [jbro_135] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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jbro_135 wrote:
DouglasHunter wrote:
In reply to:
This climb was rated v12 originally, however, I suspect it's a little easier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpxClpxnSnE&feature=related

Hold on, that's Mr. Mom put up by Jeff Webb back in 95 or 96. I don't remember him calling it V12. It was more like V9 if I recall correctly.

Grade inflation anyone?Unsure


lol, i think i'll buy two copies of your new book now...

10 copies if you replace the word every use of the word "failing" in the book with "ceeboing"

Now you are making me wish that we had repeatedly used the word "punter" in the book.


Learner


Jun 29, 2011, 8:26 PM
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Re: [DouglasHunter] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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DouglasHunter wrote:
jbro_135 wrote:
DouglasHunter wrote:
In reply to:
This climb was rated v12 originally, however, I suspect it's a little easier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpxClpxnSnE&feature=related

Hold on, that's Mr. Mom put up by Jeff Webb back in 95 or 96. I don't remember him calling it V12. It was more like V9 if I recall correctly.

Grade inflation anyone?Unsure


lol, i think i'll buy two copies of your new book now...

10 copies if you replace the word every use of the word "failing" in the book with "ceeboing"

Now you are making me wish that we had repeatedly used the word "punter" in the book.
Believe it or not, I just started doing 4x4's today. As long as I maintain focus on movement, footwork, balance, etc..., this should increase my ability to perform difficult moves while fatigued. It's good to challenge yourself to maintain appropriate mental focus while fatigued, otherwise 1) you may sacrifice technique as you fatigue and 2) you may have difficulty when the crux is at a point in the route when your energy levels are not optimal. I'm glad to report that the 4x4's you've recommended have been a lot of fun because your sense of accomplishment accrues after every single problem you send. This really keeps your drive up! I may promote myself to the 6x8's tomorrow.

If you're a climber, you need to pre-order this book from Amazon RIGHT NOW:

http://www.amazon.com/...309403412&sr=1-1
This way you get it in your hands ASAP!


(This post was edited by Learner on Jun 29, 2011, 8:28 PM)


potreroed


Jun 29, 2011, 9:20 PM
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Re: [ceebo] Flesh. [In reply to]
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ceebo wrote:
potreroed wrote:
Sorry, Ceebo, but there's no such thing as respectable grades or mediocre grades. All climbing is good in whatever discipline and level one feels comfortable in. You might be a numbers chaser but most of us are more interested in climbing good routes, regardless of the grade.

Why do you assume a person who is a grade chaser has less love for climbing than you?. And ofc their is such thing as mediocre.. unless i am imagining this list of difficulty grades in order from easiest to hardest.

Btw, you may not know this ( < sarcasm).. but it is possible to pick a fun and enjoyable looking hard route. Besides, the guy who can climb the hardest.. can go to any crag and have greater option of ''fun climbs''.... logical huh?.

I didn't accuse you of not loving climbing. I just pointed out that because some grades are easy and others hard doesn't mean that the easier ones are mediocre and the harder ones are respectable.

And, no, not logical. It all depends on the climbing area. If you're talking Rifle, yes, you're right. If you're at the Potrero Chico, or Joshua Tree, or Devil's Tower, or the Gunks, etc, etc, you're wrong.


ceebo


Jun 30, 2011, 4:07 AM
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potreroed wrote:
ceebo wrote:
potreroed wrote:
Sorry, Ceebo, but there's no such thing as respectable grades or mediocre grades. All climbing is good in whatever discipline and level one feels comfortable in. You might be a numbers chaser but most of us are more interested in climbing good routes, regardless of the grade.

Why do you assume a person who is a grade chaser has less love for climbing than you?. And ofc their is such thing as mediocre.. unless i am imagining this list of difficulty grades in order from easiest to hardest.

Btw, you may not know this ( < sarcasm).. but it is possible to pick a fun and enjoyable looking hard route. Besides, the guy who can climb the hardest.. can go to any crag and have greater option of ''fun climbs''.... logical huh?.

I didn't accuse you of not loving climbing. I just pointed out that because some grades are easy and others hard doesn't mean that the easier ones are mediocre and the harder ones are respectable.

And, no, not logical. It all depends on the climbing area. If you're talking Rifle, yes, you're right. If you're at the Potrero Chico, or Joshua Tree, or Devil's Tower, or the Gunks, etc, etc, you're wrong.

I meant mediocre in the grand scale of what appears to be humanly possible. It was meant from a physical and ability perspective. People could climb much harder if they wanted too.. but for multiple reasons they don't. Maybe i should have referred to such grades as the ''casual'' ones. Their is nothing wrong with those grades (im still within that zone too.. don't forget). Still it does not take away the fact of what they are. Just like in football, you have small league and big league. The small league is often referred to as the ''armature'' league. Their all still having fun though right?.


elmayimbe


Jun 30, 2011, 9:05 PM
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Re: [DouglasHunter] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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Yes, it is my understanding the original Mr. Mom is easier (V10 according to the "black bible") and it starts on Bear Hug sit and moves left to Johny's Mantel. However, "Mr. Mom the Hard Way" (AKA "Back-door Bearhug" I think) goes from left to right as Flesh did it. Until Flesh suggested V11/12, I had only heard V12 for the grade. As for first-hand experience I can only say that either direction is beyond my current abilities.


quiteatingmysteak


Jun 30, 2011, 11:23 PM
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Re: [flesh] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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flesh wrote:
HAHA, well it's actually not done, I promised y'all though so I will put it here next week sometime... I've been busy bouldering outside before it gets to hot. 10PM session coming tonight.

Sorry I haven't put up the video yet, I'm going out of town for two weeks. I PROMISE I'll do it when I get back. Here's a little video of how the open handed campusing has helped me. This climb was rated v12 originally, however, I suspect it's a little easier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpxClpxnSnE&feature=related


Geez wasn't there anything hard to climb out there?

Real men struggle up 5.6 choss, yo!

Angelic


airscape


Jul 1, 2011, 4:10 AM
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Re: [flesh] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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flesh wrote:
HAHA, well it's actually not done, I promised y'all though so I will put it here next week sometime... I've been busy bouldering outside before it gets to hot. 10PM session coming tonight.

Sorry I haven't put up the video yet, I'm going out of town for two weeks. I PROMISE I'll do it when I get back. Here's a little video of how the open handed campusing has helped me. This climb was rated v12 originally, however, I suspect it's a little easier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpxClpxnSnE&feature=related

That climb would be waaaaayyy more difficult if it had some hardcore rock music with a stellar guitar solo. It's really the only way to increase a climbs difficulty. Chris Sharma only climbs 5.10 if you watch his videos on mute.


DouglasHunter


Jul 1, 2011, 9:49 AM
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Re: [elmayimbe] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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elmayimbe wrote:
Yes, it is my understanding the original Mr. Mom is easier (V10 according to the "black bible") and it starts on Bear Hug sit and moves left to Johny's Mantel. However, "Mr. Mom the Hard Way" (AKA "Back-door Bearhug" I think) goes from left to right as Flesh did it. Until Flesh suggested V11/12, I had only heard V12 for the grade. As for first-hand experience I can only say that either direction is beyond my current abilities.


Thanks for the additional info elmaylmbe.

Of course the real test of a climber's abilities on that particular boulder is if they can flash the V4 just to the right of Bear Hug!


sungam


Jul 1, 2011, 10:13 AM
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Re: [DouglasHunter] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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There's a V4 There? Is that passed the V6 that's just to the right of Bear Hug?


stealth


Jul 1, 2011, 3:57 PM
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Re: [ceebo] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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ceebo wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
ceebo wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
ceebo wrote:
And wolf gang invent the campus board, ask yourself why. Maybe he was better off doing some endurance drills.

The reason that doing endurance drills is such common advice is because most climbers are incredibly strong in comparison to their endurance because of bouldering gyms. Wolfgang probably did not have that problem. Also, if you do them correctly, a 4x4 is a hundred times more debilitating than any campus workout and was a tool developed, like the campus board, to develop the fitness to climb world class routes.

I wont argue with that, but i have never once done a 4x4 with ought multiples interruptions by random climbers. Also my understanding is that 4x4's targets high end endurance where as campusing pushes maximum strength limit and strength endurance. Could be wrong on that.

I doubt campusing does much for endurance unless you are doing tons of reps, and then you would be much better off doing something else.

I started doing 4x4s in earnest a few months ago. Due to my schedule being really weird, I haven't been able to do more than 3 sessions in a row without long breaks in between, but my hardest onsight is now a grade above where my previous hardest redpoint was before I started 4x4s.

Guess i will try to read up on it. I just thought that in pushing maximum strength you are at the peak if not slightly beyond the highest level of strength endurance.

Anyway, good for you on the improvements.

Good job , beginners welcome !

just a drive by.........Tongue


Japa


Jul 25, 2011, 10:05 PM
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Re: [flesh] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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Hey where's the campusing video???


(This post was edited by Japa on Jul 29, 2011, 10:43 PM)


flesh


Aug 7, 2011, 11:02 PM
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Re: [Japa] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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Japa wrote:
Hey where's the campusing video???

BUMP, it's done. sorry it took so long.


iknowfear


Aug 8, 2011, 12:26 AM
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flesh wrote:
Japa wrote:
Hey where's the campusing video???

BUMP, it's done. sorry it took so long.

clicky link from first page for the lazy.


sungam


Aug 8, 2011, 2:40 AM
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Re: [flesh] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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flesh wrote:
Japa wrote:
Hey where's the campusing video???

BUMP, it's done. sorry it took so long.
Shocked That was a pretty intense session, dudebrah.


flesh


Aug 8, 2011, 2:17 PM
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Re: [sungam] Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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If anyone has any questions about how to apply this to your situation just let me know, no biggie.


srrk


Aug 9, 2011, 7:22 AM
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Re: [flesh] UPDATED 8-7-11:Video of Flesh's favorite campusing technique, NO INJURIES, PURE POWA! [In reply to]
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I really like this idea of maximum training intensity with minimum injury potential.

It is a little hard to see how open your grip is though in the video. It almost looks like you latch with a half crimp and then open up. Are you trying to progress to full open (first pad on rung and fingers more or less straight)?

thanks!


flesh


Aug 9, 2011, 9:38 AM
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srrk wrote:
I really like this idea of maximum training intensity with minimum injury potential.

It is a little hard to see how open your grip is though in the video. It almost looks like you latch with a half crimp and then open up. Are you trying to progress to full open (first pad on rung and fingers more or less straight)?

thanks!

Sure, it's a little confusing. I'm basically open handed, I don't catch in a crimp at all. The only reason I didn't say I was 100% open (im probably 95%) is because my middle finger is just barely not totally open but my other three fingers are totally open. In otherwords, since my middle finger is longer, it's somewhere in between fully open and a open crimp I'd say while the others, once again, are fully open. If you look closely in the video you'll see that my middle finger is bent a little more whereas the others are fully extended. I can't go to a smaller size rung because even just a little smaller would make it so my middle finger was in an open crimp and the others would be in between and therefore be much less safe. So I add weight instead. It's possible I could use a slightly smaller rung and use three fingers, minus the pinky, and still stay open. Honestly, I'll probably be climbing v13 when I can use 30 lbs at 10 plus reps using the rung I currently do so I don't have to figure that out yet ;).


rockprodigy


Aug 17, 2011, 6:58 AM
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Interesting stuff, mr. Flesh. Nice job on Mr. Mom, that thing is the real deal, and it was FA'd by Steven Jeffrey, I believe.

As far as the best way to increase "power", I think you are on the right track. In theory, you want to increase the intensity of the load as much as possible while decreasing the time required to apply the load, so weighted dynamic movements are the way to go. I've often phatasized about weighted campusing, but was too leary of injury potential to try it. Ironically, I've unintentionally been doing weighted campusing for years now...I used to be 15-20 lbs overweight. Now, at my current weight, I'm floating up the campus board (compared to what I used to do), so why should I be afraid of putting that weight back on in the form of a weight vest?


That said, the problem with this approach is that it has limited application. For starters, I think you can only expect to make gains in this way for a very short period of time (maybe a month at most), and those gains will be pretty short-lived. Second, your training is limited to one very specific grip position, so it's only going to be a handful of routes/boulder problems that benefit directly from this very specific form of training. In that sense, people who argue in favor of a more general training approach have a point. On the other hand, a potential improvement to your routine would be to try to figure out a way to incorporate alternate hold types. For example, could you make the same movements off of pinch holds?

Also, the power that you develop has somewhat limited application. Obviously, it's most useful for bouldering, and becomes less useful the more you get into route climbing (depending on the route, obviously). There are numerous climbs for which very intense open-hand crimp strength will have no value, but that is a personal choice to climb these routes or not.

Many have argued in the literature and these forums that power is not needed for climbing, and any powerful moves can be overcome with better technique. They often point out "unpowerful" people who manage to climb "hard" routes (usually women), as proof of their theory. In general, the routes used in these examples are on the extreme low end of the power spectrum. Therefore, there are also routes that are very powerful and no amount of finesse and technique will get you up them if you don't have the requisite power. Sometimes you have to lock off that mono to your waist, and there is no way around it. In these cases, no amount of flagging drills will get you up that move, you need to train power.

These facts lead to choices which we must all make in order to prioritize our climbing. What do you want to be good at? If you want to be as skilled as possible at a wide variety of climbing, it's necessary to train technique and movement alongside strength and power. If you decide you would rather specialize in a certain type of climbing to maximize the grade you can climb, it may be possible to ignore, or de-emphasize one of those aspects in training.


flesh


Aug 17, 2011, 11:00 AM
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U know, one would think that progress would be short lived, however, that has not been the case with me.

As I said, using this exact same technique and simply adding weight as time goes on, I've seen steady, measurable improvement for about 6 months. I do it 2-3 times a month and almost every time I go up in either reps or weight. At some point, it seems like a plateau should be hit, which results will surely vary.

Campusing on pinches is a great idea. Funny enough, that was the first thing I figured I should do or alternate between with what I've been doing.

I think I'll either have to build my own training wall or go to a local gym and find four good friendly pinches that I can campus up and down on. I'm pretty sure the folks at the gym wouldn't mind. I think it would work best if it was on a roof so when campusing up and down, each movement was close in difficulty. Pinching definately helps in some climbing areas and pinches are used frequently when gym climbing or comp climbing.

Once I get to 20 lbs (my weight vest max) I think what I'll do is use the same rung but start near the top and skip one rung on the way up and two rungs on the way down. When I reach the bottom this could be 8-10 reps, plus, when I'm most likely to fail I'll be closer to the bottom and the safety of the pad so I won't be afraid to push myself.

Echoing what you said, it's very important to switch it up, whether it's routes/boulders/campusing/onsighting/holds etc. to avoid a plateau and to prevent injury.

I'm most interested in bouldering/comps/short powerful routes so I'm not to interested in resistance climbing. I rarely climb anything longer than 8 bolts.

I never implied technique wasn't important? Technique is just as important as power and likely more important if your goal is to climb resistance type routes (60 feet plus).

I don't mention technique much because there's so much out there for it already. Eric horst and Doug Hunter have great books on it. When I started climbing I regularly climbed with folks who had been trained by Doug Hunter one on one. I was doing 4 x 4s in 1998. I was practicing straight arm climbing and what's not called silent feet back then as well.

I'm just adding what I felt like wasn't out there yet. To contribute something that seemed new and helpful.

I can't power crimp often without getting injuries, I proved that 9 times already and at this point it's simply not worth it to me, so I almost never power crimp and neve train crimps and refuse to project anything that requres repetive crimping. If I can do a crimp problem open handed, even if it's harder to do so, that's what I do. If I must crimp, I limit it to one or two tries and then make sure not to crimp hard again for another week or so. If you can crimp hard regularly I consider you lucky but I'd never recomment it as I suspect most folks, even alot of those who wouldn't agree with me now, will get injured from it. It might just take them getting to v9 plus crimping before it starts happening to them like it did me.

One bonus to climbing open that surprised me is that I can climb more frequently and at a high level. Cumatively, I believe this will make a big difference over time.


rockprodigy


Aug 17, 2011, 11:29 AM
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I didn't mean to imply that you think technique is not important. I'm just making a general comment about training for climbing and prioritizing the various possible activities.

I don't know what to make of your steady improvement for 6 months. The fact that you're only training this way 2-3 times a month must be part of it, and I suspect your weight loss is another part. Usually, when I train power, I train it for about a month, and it lasts about a month, then there is a significant and noticeable dropoff. However, I don't do anything to "maintain" it, other than climbing on routes, which I think is counterproductive to maintaining that power. I've never attempted to stay powerful for much longer than a month. It makes me wonder if you are really at your peak?


flesh


Aug 17, 2011, 11:57 AM
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rockprodigy wrote:
I didn't mean to imply that you think technique is not important. I'm just making a general comment about training for climbing and prioritizing the various possible activities.

I don't know what to make of your steady improvement for 6 months. The fact that you're only training this way 2-3 times a month must be part of it, and I suspect your weight loss is another part. Usually, when I train power, I train it for about a month, and it lasts about a month, then there is a significant and noticeable dropoff. However, I don't do anything to "maintain" it, other than climbing on routes, which I think is counterproductive to maintaining that power. I've never attempted to stay powerful for much longer than a month. It makes me wonder if you are really at your peak?

ATM, I'm convincing myself there isn't such thing as a peak ;)

When I look back on the last 13 years of climbing, I can't think of one time where I wasn't clearly improving, except due to injury.


johnwesely


Aug 18, 2011, 7:52 PM
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Flesh, thanks for inspiring to get me on the board for the first time in four years. Last Thursday, I did one session of your workout on a 1.5 pad sloping edge and saw huge gains. During my first gym session after the workout, I climbed a long, 20 foot, boulder problem first go that I couldn't even do all of the moves on the session previous to the campus workout. Keep up the coolness.


flesh


Aug 31, 2011, 11:11 AM
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Did this workout again last night.

1 set I managed 17.5 lbs, 11 reps

2 sets I managed 8 reps 20 lbs.

I went up in weight and reps again.

I'm still very suprised I'm seeing such consistent results.


userdude


Aug 31, 2011, 3:03 PM
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It's web fags man. They're on every online forum. Most are miserable, whiney, bitches who wouldn't address you the same way at the crag.


flesh


Sep 22, 2011, 1:04 PM
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nothing groundbreaking but a small update, I have been up to 20lbs using my weight vest's full weight for a bit now. I thought it might be a little ridiculous to add more weight than that but I didn't want to use a smaller rung as this size is the smallest I can use while staying open handed. Solution, went to another gym that has the same rung, but the campus board is steeper. First session on it last night and I was doing 10 reps with no weight.

Just an idea. Before going to a smaller rung or before you add an obscene amount of weight try using a slightly steeper board. Makes a huge difference. It will be months before I can do 10 reps with 20 lbs on this new steeper board.


elmayimbe


Sep 28, 2011, 11:17 AM
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Flesh, thanks for the video and detailed information. I've decided to try and incorporate this into my training. I began today, but didn't have my weight vest. At the same gym as the vimeo clip, the largest rungs (non-Metolius) felt really easy. On the next size down (large Metolius), I failed after 5 reps, skipping 1 rung. Next, on that same rung size, I did a few 10-rep sets without skipping a rung. I'm trying to decide for next time whether to add a lot of weight & use the huge rungs or add a little weight on the Metolius rungs without skipping. For relating my baseline to climbing: my highpoints are v9 & 13- sport, but I've mostly been on trad routes as of late and v7 seems to be my current max (at least in this gym).


flesh


Sep 30, 2011, 10:31 AM
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elmayimbe wrote:
Flesh, thanks for the video and detailed information. I've decided to try and incorporate this into my training. I began today, but didn't have my weight vest. At the same gym as the vimeo clip, the largest rungs (non-Metolius) felt really easy. On the next size down (large Metolius), I failed after 5 reps, skipping 1 rung. Next, on that same rung size, I did a few 10-rep sets without skipping a rung. I'm trying to decide for next time whether to add a lot of weight & use the huge rungs or add a little weight on the Metolius rungs without skipping. For relating my baseline to climbing: my highpoints are v9 & 13- sport, but I've mostly been on trad routes as of late and v7 seems to be my current max (at least in this gym).

Yes, I think 8 reps should be the minimum so if you can't do that, you'll need to decrease weight or use larger rungs and add weight. A friend of mine doing this workout with me recently said that he calls one rep going up and down.... this made sense to me. I've been doing 8-10 reps which using his logic would be 4-5 reps which is right in the meat of what bodybuilders focus on for pure power.

Try using the larger rungs. It sounds like you could use 20 lbs on the larger rung and still manage 8 reps. Use the sequence you see in the black and white in the video. Start near the top and go up one rung, without skipping, the skip two rungs on the way down, repeat. You should be at 8 reps by the time your at the very bottom. You always want to go until failure though so if you find yourself at the bottom and can manage one or two more reps, just go up skipping or not skipping.

It shouldn't be too long before your able to use the smaller rungs without weight and manage 8 reps.

Good luck, and if you see me there, say hi..... always looking for motivated people to train with. However I'll be in font for the next month! so you won't see me!


sungam


Sep 30, 2011, 11:22 AM
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flesh wrote:
I'll be in font for the next month!
Sungam is jealous.


flesh


Sep 30, 2011, 12:18 PM
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sungam wrote:
flesh wrote:
I'll be in font for the next month!
Sungam is jealous.

Yes, a dream come true....


elmayimbe


Oct 3, 2011, 9:39 AM
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Thanks for helpful the response and that makes sense on the rep count equating to power. Enjoy le font!


Rufsen


Oct 4, 2011, 4:57 AM
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Check out aerodynamite and la balance. Both involve campus moves on awesome slopers.

Hopefully i can get there in february/march. I just need some time and money first.


flesh


Oct 5, 2011, 10:38 AM
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Rufsen wrote:
Check out aerodynamite and la balance. Both involve campus moves on awesome slopers.

Hopefully i can get there in february/march. I just need some time and money first.

hehe, yes very good problems... but I already did them!

Hoping 2 do karma and total eclipse!


flesh


Apr 20, 2012, 11:33 AM
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quick update on this..... progress started to slow down.... I lost more weight and was down to 149..... I think I found the point where diminishing returns kicked in losing weight. After a couple months of virtually no progress, I decided to increase the calories. I decided to get up to about 155 over the course of a couple months and then back down to 150 over a couple months and so on. When I started eating more again, results were immediate.

^^^^^^ in the above responses I suggested using a steeper wall to increase difficulty while still using a finger friendly sized rung.

Now that I can do 10 reps on this steeper wall consistently I decided to add distance.

Personally, I've never found a move I couldn't due because I couldn't pull hard enough (pull/lockoff muscles/reach), so I don't want to add unwanted bulk by training for it. In the original video, using large rungs, you see me skipping one rung up and two down. I don't believe skipping more on the way down works the pull muscles, just the fingers harder. So now I'm doing 10 reps on the medium rungs skipping one up and two down. Next, I'll start adding weight.

cheers.


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